Celts Peck Their Fans' Eyes Out! AOS vs ATL 3/25

[Fierce1]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

[CelticsPride18]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

[GrandTheftRondo]

Only caught the last few minutes.

**** loss and again **** execution down the stretch.

One thing I will say is it doesn’t seem like fans and even players have adjusted to the fact that a 20 or 30 point lead isn’t what it used to be in the NBA.

You don’t even necessarily have to do a lot wrong and a team can come back.

It isn’t like in the 2008 finals when we came back against the Lakers and that was a genuine mountain to climb.

Go completely cold from 3 these days and the opponent hits a few and the lead very quickly shrinks.

I think I’m done making any further observations, getting riled up etc at these last ten games. Feels like we haven’t had a full roster in weeks and really at this point I just want to see what happens in the playoffs.

[The Corey's]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

Didn't Tatum throw the ball away from the baseline to I think Pritchard at the 3 point line and Murray intercepted it for a easy layup?

Tatum was pretty bad so not sure why brown would be singled out.

Not by you. Just saying.

[shackles10]

Oh yeah a pissing match between Joe’s lack of timeouts and who sucked worse down the stretch between JB and JT. Sounds about as fun as watching the Celtics lose a 30 point lead.

[Fierce1]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

That was a mistake by JT.

It counts as a turnover.

But that was with still 1:39 left in the 4th.

That was bad, but JB taking too long or being indecisive for the potential game winning shot is just being horrible in the clutch situations.

JB should have made up his mind earlier or just shot it earlier as it was a 2 for 1 situation.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Really weak post here. Lebron was clutch well before he got to the Heat. He just had bad teams around him in Cleveland. Your post goes flying out the window, just bringing up one game: Game 5 of the 2007 ECF vs. Detroit. Lebron scored the final 25 points for Cleveland, all by himself, in a double overtime win. That's **** clutch.

That's not accurate.

Celtic fans kept calling Lebron a choker after he lost to the Mavs in the 2011 finals.

It's not about facts, it's about perception.

A lot of NBA fans called Lebron a choker at that time.

Lebron got swept in 2007 by the Spurs in the finals.

Lost to the Celtics in 2008.

Got beat by Orlando in 2009.

And got beaten by the Cs again in 2010.

That's why a lot of NBA fans saw Lebron as a choker.

I will not argue with your data because like I said, it was all about perception.

This season there are Celtic fans here who will also show you data that the Celtics are good in the clutch this season.

Just go to the game thread and you'll see a post saying the Celts are good in the clutch this season.

Again, it's about perception.

Where, on this forum?? I wasn't here in 2007, but I guarantee you not a single person I know that knew and watched basketball at that time thought Lebron was a choker. Quite the opposite. After that Pistons game everyone was in awe over how clutch he was when it mattered.

Boy talk about rewriting history.

From 2009-2012 LeBron was routinely shat on for being a choker.

[Fierce1]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

Didn't Tatum throw the ball away from the baseline to I think Pritchard at the 3 point line and Murray intercepted it for a easy layup?

Tatum was pretty bad so not sure why brown would be singled out.

Not by you. Just saying.

Same thing happened in Minnesota early in the season.

Cs had a chance to win in regulation.

Ball was in JB's hands for the game winning shot.

But JB ended up jacking a 3 as time expired.

In this game, it was a 2 for 1, JB took too long to get a shot off.
The result was he was once again forced to jack up a 3.

JB should be more decisive in clutch situations.
That's something he has to learn.

[31to6]

How can you not be pissed? Meditation?

Read on Twitter

This is it, exactly. Biggest possession of the game, plenty of time to call a play, and there is not even a plan of any kind. No movement, no passing. Our guys honestly just look confused. Does Jaylen want space? Does he want a pick? No attempt to switch him off a good defender.

I just don't get what Joe thinks he is doing. You know how when someone gets promoted professionally and they don't know how to supervise former colleagues? Like they just can't get past that aspect of being the boss of people they used to be friends with? That's Joe as a coach. And I almost feel like the reason he doesn't call timeouts is because he has no plays to call anyway.

It's maddening, and I really hope it does not cost us a title.

I feel like there’s a play in there, probably Tatum flashing to the top of the key and KP establishing in the paint, but they both easily get pushed off their spots and give up, which is way more alarming to me than Joe being like “they’ve got this.”

Coaching matters but if Tatum (or Jaylen, or KP) were an all time great he’d win these games anyway. Instead he gets in his feelings because grown ups play physical defense on him, and he hands ATL two key FTs with like 1:30(?) left because he slaps Murray.

Mentally. Soft. Almost all of the damn time.

So I’d love it if we had a coach who had plays and the huzzpah to get the team to run them. Or Derrick White tonight. Or Larry Bird. Instead we need Tatum to get good enough at this crunch time stuff so it’s not a debilitating weakness. And that means getting to the point where he EXPECTS to get hit. And expects to use his teammates and for his teammates to use him. And to EXPECT to win physical battles.

Remember when LeBron taunted KG? Game 1 2012? Held out the ball after they hacked him and he did what he wanted anyway, like “Yeah, Yeah” with this freaky grin on his face? Freaky because you could tell he knew BOS ownership of him was over. Maybe the most honest emotion I’d ever seen from LeBron. He’d busted through. Not going back. Jayson isn’t going to be LeBron but he needs something like that. And rings. Soon, please:)

Watch on YouTube

[GrandTheftRondo]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

Brown is the exact same so when you combine the two of them ugly **** can happen and it’s why Miami, Golden State, Philly and Milwaukee have caused us problems in the playoffs.

[Fierce1]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

He can change that narrative in this year's playoffs and hopefully the finals.

[The Corey's]

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

Didn't Tatum throw the ball away from the baseline to I think Pritchard at the 3 point line and Murray intercepted it for a easy layup?

Tatum was pretty bad so not sure why brown would be singled out.

Not by you. Just saying.

Same thing happened in Minnesota early in the season.

Cs had a chance to win in regulation.

Ball was in JB's hands for the game winning shot.

But JB ended up jacking a 3 as time expired.

In this game, it was a 2 for 1, JB took too long to get a shot off.
The result was he was once again forced to jack up a 3.

JB should be more decisive in clutch situations.
That's something he has to learn.

Brown is who he is. You're not wrong.

I don't much care for him but even I have to say over the past month the dude has been cooking.

Don't think Tatum has reached that kind of consistency at that amount of time in his entire career.

This is a team loss and I don't blame any of the players as much as I blame the coach for doing what he does best. Almost nothing.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

He can change that narrative in this year's playoffs and hopefully the finals.

Maybe.

But if we’re to win a title I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be ugly for multiple rounds like the 2008 team.

If finals games for instance come down to the last minutes against Jokic then we simply won’t win.

[Green89]

That's not accurate.

Celtic fans kept calling Lebron a choker after he lost to the Mavs in the 2011 finals.

It's not about facts, it's about perception.

A lot of NBA fans called Lebron a choker at that time.

Lebron got swept in 2007 by the Spurs in the finals.

Lost to the Celtics in 2008.

Got beat by Orlando in 2009.

And got beaten by the Cs again in 2010.

That's why a lot of NBA fans saw Lebron as a choker.

I will not argue with your data because like I said, it was all about perception.

This season there are Celtic fans here who will also show you data that the Celtics are good in the clutch this season.

Just go to the game thread and you'll see a post saying the Celts are good in the clutch this season.

Again, it's about perception.

Where, on this forum?? I wasn't here in 2007, but I guarantee you not a single person I know that knew and watched basketball at that time thought Lebron was a choker. Quite the opposite. After that Pistons game everyone was in awe over how clutch he was when it mattered.

Boy talk about rewriting history.

From 2009-2012 LeBron was routinely shat on for being a choker.

Probably by casual fans only looking at his team's outcomes. His individual performances were still clutch throughout that time. Look at the players around him on the teams he played with.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Where, on this forum?? I wasn't here in 2007, but I guarantee you not a single person I know that knew and watched basketball at that time thought Lebron was a choker. Quite the opposite. After that Pistons game everyone was in awe over how clutch he was when it mattered.

Boy talk about rewriting history.

From 2009-2012 LeBron was routinely shat on for being a choker.

Probably by casual fans only looking at his team's outcomes. His individual performances were still clutch throughout that time. Look at the players around him on the teams he played with.

No, it wasn’t just a casual thing and after the 2011 finals he copped it big time from everywhere.

You are rewriting history.

[CelticsPride18]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

Brown is the exact same so when you combine the two of them ugly **** can happen and it’s why Miami, Golden State, Philly and Milwaukee have caused us problems in the playoffs.

Not only that he makes terrible reads down the stretch. It’s hard to win the whole thing when your number 1 guy consistently shrinks down the stretch.

[Green89]

And for the record, it's JB who choked in the clutch in this game.

Same thing happened in Minnesota when JB had to jack up that 3 because time was running out.

JB was just too indecisive or it took too long for him to process what was going on.

This was not on JT as JB was given the chance to be the hero when the Cs were down 1 and the Cs had a shot to take the lead with 36 seconds remaining.

They were both awful. Tatum asked for an iso just to get stripped by Murray and didnt contest Bogdanovic on the other end

And they both took unnecessary chances on defense that gave Atlanta 4 free throws late. And JT had the ridiculously bad 8 second call on another lazy trot taking the ball up, not knowing what to run.

This was the worst blown lead by a team this year.

Read on Twitter

[Mr_Mojo_Risin]

How can you not be pissed? Meditation?

Read on Twitter

This is it, exactly. Biggest possession of the game, plenty of time to call a play, and there is not even a plan of any kind. No movement, no passing. Our guys honestly just look confused. Does Jaylen want space? Does he want a pick? No attempt to switch him off a good defender.

I just don't get what Joe thinks he is doing. You know how when someone gets promoted professionally and they don't know how to supervise former colleagues? Like they just can't get past that aspect of being the boss of people they used to be friends with? That's Joe as a coach. And I almost feel like the reason he doesn't call timeouts is because he has no plays to call anyway.

It's maddening, and I really hope it does not cost us a title.

Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Joe deserves some flak for the late game stuff but how many times does it have to be spelled out that Tatum simply is a level below guys like Durant, Curry, LeBron etc at the end of games?

He simply cannot get easy buckets like them and it’s been a flaw of his throughout his entire career and I don’t see it changing.

It is what holds him back from being a top 3 player.

Brown is the exact same so when you combine the two of them ugly **** can happen and it’s why Miami, Golden State, Philly and Milwaukee have caused us problems in the playoffs.

Not only that he makes terrible reads down the stretch. It’s hard to win the whole thing when your number 1 guy consistently shrinks down the stretch.

I think the biggest problem is he’s never created separation from defenders as easier as the guys I mentioned.

Mentally late in games he has it in his head he has to attack but defences know they can screw up his rhythm by throwing bodies in his way.

It’s been a clear flaw in his game since day one.

His passing is far better than it used to be but it still isn’t as natural to him as other stars.

I think the team has to look at some actions where Tatum catches it in the post and go from there. The dribble up the ball and shoot a contested jumper thing is awful.

[Green89]

How can you not be pissed? Meditation?

Read on Twitter

This is it, exactly. Biggest possession of the game, plenty of time to call a play, and there is not even a plan of any kind. No movement, no passing. Our guys honestly just look confused. Does Jaylen want space? Does he want a pick? No attempt to switch him off a good defender.

I just don't get what Joe thinks he is doing. You know how when someone gets promoted professionally and they don't know how to supervise former colleagues? Like they just can't get past that aspect of being the boss of people they used to be friends with? That's Joe as a coach. And I almost feel like the reason he doesn't call timeouts is because he has no plays to call anyway.

It's maddening, and I really hope it does not cost us a title.

Mate, I respect you opinion, but I don't agree about Joe.

This has been a habit of both Jays for years under three different head coaches. It doesn't matter the coach if the players freeze in their minds and don't follow plans.

None of us are there to know what is being said and coached, so I realise I may be wrong also, but to me there is a clear trend with evidence from Joe this year that leaving these situations is an attempt for player growth to read the game without set plays. The idea being to prepare the players for an eventuality in the playoffs to handle reads themselves if either there are no timeouts left or if the set play fails to be executed as planned.

Let's just say for a moment that my assumption is correct and Joe is doing this, that when he says (around training camp) that he learnt from his mistakes in last playoffs and that he needs to manage the game more actively that he means it and his approach now is only for RS. If this is the case (and I clearly believe it is), then I'm all for it. I'm also for not showing a bunch of set plays in a meaningless RS game.

Of course if I'm wrong about this then very likely Joe is **** and hasn't learnt a thing. But there is many times he's talked post games and preseason about this very thing which leads me to this belief. That and the fact for the most part every single one of our players seems extremely clear on what to do on both ends with various lineups. That's a sign of very good coaching.

What bothers me is JT and JB are not learning quick enough and still have a touch of the panicked brain about them.

Joe hasn't come up with enough game ending play calls to then be able to "test" letting the Jays figure it out on their own. It's pretty clear he's not that kind of coach yet.