The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[truth18]

**** vucevic he leaks like a siv

We need a stonewall.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

He would be way down on the list of possible Ainge acquisitions, even if he fills some needs,
because of his contract. They'd be more interesting in expiring Big Men like Millsap, Bogut, Randolph and keeping Cap Flexibility
available to sign a Hayward or Griffin in the off season.

As to his worth, something like Smart or Rozier and the 2018 Celts pick/2019 Memphis choice, if he plays well this season... he's somewhere in the same ball park as Nerlens as to value... ehhh, Nerlens because of youth and defense may have more value.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Hi guys, Magic fan here.

I saw that you guys were fans of Vouch, which is understandable. He does a lot of things well: rebounding, mid-range shooting, post moves, footwork, passing in an inside-out game. He does some things less well like defense and drawing fouls (his defense isn't as awful as most of the Magic community would leave you to believe, but is definitely worse than average).

I was curious as to what your thoughts were on him and what you would trade for him. We don't need cap space because we have a ton of it next off season (most of our deals this summer outside of Biz were for expiring and 1 year deals) and I don't expect that you guys would give up core members of your team nor Nets picks unless they turn it around and start winning every game for the next few weeks. It seems like you guys have a decent amount of less valuable picks and players and we have all of our future picks to trade and the LAL '19 unprotected 1st if you were trying to move up to get one of your more valuable assets.

Happy to see what you guys have to say and have a good one.

He would be way down on the list of possible Ainge acquisitions, even if he fills some needs,
because of his contract. They'd be more interested in expiring Big Men like Millsap, Bogut, Randolph and keeping Cap Flexibility
available to sign a Hayward or Griffin in the off season.

As to his worth, something like Smart or Rozier and the 2018 Celts pick/2019 Memphis choice, if he plays well this season... he's somewhere in the same ball park as Nerlens as to value... ehhh, Nerlens because of youth and defense may have more value.

[jmr07019]

Vucevic is making roughly 12, 12.5 and 13 this year and the next 2. In a league where I fully expect Noel and KO to be looking at 15/year Vucevic is a pretty good deal. Potentially a steal. He would be a huge upgrade in the rebounding department.

What will it take to get him? Rozier and KO enough?

I think acquiring him will screw up our max cap space though.

[nowyouknow]

Noah put on a ton of muscle over his career, not sure I see that in the cards for Noel.

Richaun Holmes is the guy from Philly that interests me. Great athleticism. Excellent size for a 4-5.

[Slartibartfast]

Vucevic is making roughly 12, 12.5 and 13 this year and the next 2. In a league where I fully expect Noel and KO to be looking at 15/year Vucevic is a pretty good deal. Potentially a steal. He would be a huge upgrade in the rebounding department.

What will it take to get him? Rozier and KO enough?

I think acquiring him will screw up our max cap space though.

Yeah, it's the latter that matters more to me. I want to add a max level talent while IT/AB/Jae/Smart still cost less than a max combined.

Vuc is the kind of contract that will make it easier to keep AB and IT and Smart in 2 years, but who cares if adding him prevented us from adding a max talent?

If we're going to give up on max FA, it should be for a bigger impact player, not for a guy that will make it more economical to keep winning 50+ games and lose to the superteams. If the impact players aren't available or worth the price, we should go for expiring vet band-aids or higher-upside guys.

[TheOGJabroni]

Read on Twitter

Plus 25 wins?!?!?!

If they're using last year's record as the base...

2016-17 Celtics 74 wins
2015-16 Warriors 73

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Oladipo is getting $21 million/year. I wonder how much Avery Bradley is going to want in a couple of years? This is how I see it going down this year:

1. Trade deadline - if Ainge hasn't acquired a star by now, he's going to have to dangle those Brooklyn picks and see what he can fetch.
2. Draft - he'll dangle those picks again, along with some of the younger players.
3. July 7, 2017 - if Ainge still can't lure any other All-Stars via free agency/trade by this point, I think he starts thinking about dealing Bradley or Isaiah. Can't afford to pay both guys in the summer of 2018 unless you're contending. They're going to want at least $22 million/year (hell, they'll probably want at least $25-26 million). I don't think Wyc and co. are going to feel like paying 3 guys close to $80 million/year if they're not contenders.

[fallguy]

Oladipo is getting $21 million/year. I wonder how much Avery Bradley is going to want in a couple of years? This is how I see it going down this year:

1. Trade deadline - if Ainge hasn't acquired a star by now, he's going to have to dangle those Brooklyn picks and see what he can fetch.
2. Draft - he'll dangle those picks again, along with some of the younger players.
3. July 7, 2017 - if Ainge still can't lure any other All-Stars via free agency/trade by this point, I think he starts thinking about dealing Bradley or Isaiah. Can't afford to pay both guys in the summer of 2018 unless you're contending. They're going to want at least $22 million/year (hell, they'll probably want at least $25-26 million). I don't think Wyc and co. are going to feel like paying 3 guys close to $80 million/year if they're not contenders.

The intensity around the pursuit of a star player seem like it's soon going to hit a fever pitch. But there are so few who are likely to be out there, and such a limited free agent class come the summer (sans Blake, who is an awkward fit with Horford) that I wonder if Ainge and co. will talk themselves into Cousins or someone else (critically?) flawed. I'm assuming not, and that their radar will extend out another few years for the big move. While they try and strike gold in the draft. To your point, that likely means 1-2 of our guards are going packing when their extensions come up.

I also wonder about Wyc's patience for this process. He says all the right things. But I wonder.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Ok, here's the production- all the cap space in the league is going to evaporate quickly with these extensions- we can spend the year keeping a spot warm for Blake or Hayward, but an alternative scenario is to maximize the value of our expirings now. Zeller/Jerebko and Amir, spiced with other assets, could get us a couple of good players, even if not a superstar. Go over the cap to extend Olynyk, whoever, and we still have the BKN picks and trade chips to trade those non-expiring contracts.

Like, Amir for Kanter now, then trading Kanter/BKN for Cousins or Davis could still work.

[chrisab123]

Al is a only piece to get us closer to the top.

I could see ECF but Al needs a big like Noel to do the dirty work. Otherwise, going to end up like the Hawks the past few years against CLE.

Noel could be big problem. Destroyed property, drugs, going to want max contact, always Injured plus all his homies in the Boston Area?.

I would pass.

Keep him out of Everett and he will be okay. Friends are knuckleheads

[Writebloc]

After extensively scouting the Kings, I wouldn't trade for Cousins, although I have been impressed with Rudy Gay. Dude plays hard, not sure if there is a fit in Boston, but if a team trades for Rudy they'll get a player freed from the miasma of Sacramento.

[simon24]

After extensively scouting the Kings, I wouldn't trade for Cousins, although I have been impressed with Rudy Gay. Dude plays hard, not sure if there is a fit in Boston, but if a team trades for Rudy they'll get a player freed from the miasma of Sacramento.

I'm curious to see where he ends up. Some strange reason he still wants to play for the Heat even though Wade and Bosh are gone. I think he may stay in SAC, Joeger is a good coach. Although BOS would be a great fit for him. He could get coached up. Be the guy to take the last shot for Boston.

[Green89]

Tyson Chandler's averaging 12.7 boards through the first three games. Phoenix is going nowhere fast (about to go 0-4). Chandler's money seemed too big at the time, but he's currently only the 17th highest paid center (actually the 21st now that Rudy, Dieng, Cody Zeller, and Adams just upped their deals). He's aging but he'd fill a giant need, is better than Amir, and he could slide Horford to PF, where he belongs. He's is still good on D and would be pumped to go to a playoff team and get out of Phoenix.

[Andrew McCeltic]

No to Chandler, unless he's going to PHI in a three-team deal because they want some veteran leadership.

Notice Nurkic's averages so far this season- he's putting up huge numbers, pushing Jokic to the side. Right now they're trying a "twin towers" set-up, with Faried off the bench..

[cl2117]

Tyson Chandler's averaging 12.7 boards through the first three games. Phoenix is going nowhere fast (about to go 0-4). Chandler's money seemed too big at the time, but he's currently only the 17th highest paid center (actually the 21st now that Rudy, Dieng, Cody Zeller, and Adams just upped their deals). He's aging but he'd fill a giant need, is better than Amir, and he could slide Horford to PF, where he belongs. He's is still good on D and would be pumped to go to a playoff team and get out of Phoenix.

Tyson Chandler's deal isn't killer right now, but he's got 2 more years and there is no way it's not when he is 35/36.My biggest worry with Al is that he's going to run out of steam by the playoffs, that's a an even bigger concern with Chandler.

If we were like the Warriors or Cavs and favored to be in the finals, I'd consider doing it to push us over the top, but given that we're in a tier below we can't be making short sighted decisions that are going to hinder us for 2 more years, which is exactly what Chandler is. He's the definition of short-term gain at the expense of the long term when you're gonna be dragging him off the bench at 36 paying him 13.5m.

[Green89]

Tyson Chandler's averaging 12.7 boards through the first three games. Phoenix is going nowhere fast (about to go 0-4). Chandler's money seemed too big at the time, but he's currently only the 17th highest paid center (actually the 21st now that Rudy, Dieng, Cody Zeller, and Adams just upped their deals). He's aging but he'd fill a giant need, is better than Amir, and he could slide Horford to PF, where he belongs. He's is still good on D and would be pumped to go to a playoff team and get out of Phoenix.

Tyson Chandler's deal isn't killer right now, but he's got 2 more years and there is no way it's not when he is 35/36.My biggest worry with Al is that he's going to run out of steam by the playoffs, that's a an even bigger concern with Chandler.

If we were like the Warriors or Cavs and favored to be in the finals, I'd consider doing it to push us over the top, but given that we're in a tier below we can't be making short sighted decisions that are going to hinder us for 2 more years, which is exactly what Chandler is. He's the definition of short-term gain at the expense of the long term when you're gonna be dragging him off the bench at 36 paying him 13.5m.

OK, name 3 other younger centers that we can potentially add to our roster that are better than Tyler Zeller and Chandler? 13 mil is peanuts for a big man right now. It would not hinder us, considering we play the corpse of Amir Johnson for the same pay right now and that's coming off the books either if we deal him for Chandler, or let him walk next year. We had Johnson tying up 13 mil this year. Did it hinder us in getting anyone?? We already have the highest paid center in the league in Horford, so how much more are we going to feasibly spend on our front court, and that it won't be a giant overpay? If we had a plethora of other options of guys who can get you double digit rebounds on any given night, I'd maybe agree with you.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/center/

Show me one center on this list from 1-25 that we have a chance at getting. After Tyler Zeller at 26, there isn't anyone really better except the young guys still on rookie deals whose next contract will be huge increases.

Chandler would keep us competitive for at least this year and next.

[yanuary]

Hello Cs fans.
What is your max offer for Brook Lopez?
Tyler+Jerebko + ...

... - exactly what? Rozier/Smart + Zizic(?) + 2x (MEM and LAC) 1st round picks?

[Green89]

Hello Cs fans.
What is your max offer for Brook Lopez?
Tyler+Jerebko + ...

... - exactly what? Rozier/Smart + Zizic(?) + 2x (MEM and LAC) 1st round picks?

We'd rather not pay for a 57 million dollar front court, but thanks for asking.

[ConstableGeneva]

Hello Cs fans.
What is your max offer for Brook Lopez?
Tyler+Jerebko + ...

... - exactly what? Rozier/Smart + Zizic(?) + 2x (MEM and LAC) 1st round picks?

Me personally, nothing. Not about to help them. Nets are worse with Lopez on the court and he doesn't fit their new offense. It's more favorable for the Celtics if Nets keep him and play him as much as he can. But Atkinson might be too smart for that.