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Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money"

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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1221 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:56 am

Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:And that has zero bearing on the future you do realize that yes?


In Smart's case, but not Terry's apparently.

Among the many other bad point made in this thread, I also reject the notion that Smart has not improved as a player since his rookie year. He is a much better playmaker, and a much defender than he was coming in. He has also become a team leader, on and off the floor.

I never said he didn’t. My point was Rozier is getting better at a greater and faster rate. Both players can improve at the same time. One has improved more than the other. If Smart wants to be a better playmaker, he needs to cut down on his turnovers drastically. Something he’s been unable to do.


Perception, not reality. Neither are big turnover guys. Terry slightly more efficient in Ast/TO ratio, but Smart is the one who gets called upon to actually run an offense, especially in light of the Hayward and Kyrie injuries.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1222 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:58 am

KumaJG wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
KumaJG wrote:
You either in full agenda mode,trolling or just don't understand stats.


If you are calling him a knockdown 3-point shooter, you don't understand the term.

FWIW, out of 129 qualified players last year, dude was 127th in FG%, 113th in Adj FG%, 117th in points per shot.


FG% dont matter much, when you are a knockdown shooter from 3, which 38%. Only in your weird universe where 38% is not knockdown.


Stop making this point. It's not a terrible one. League average on 3s in like 36%, and dude shot 38%. And the 36% includes bigs and scrubs.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1223 » by Homerclease » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
In Smart's case, but not Terry's apparently.

Among the many other bad point made in this thread, I also reject the notion that Smart has not improved as a player since his rookie year. He is a much better playmaker, and a much defender than he was coming in. He has also become a team leader, on and off the floor.

I never said he didn’t. My point was Rozier is getting better at a greater and faster rate. Both players can improve at the same time. One has improved more than the other. If Smart wants to be a better playmaker, he needs to cut down on his turnovers drastically. Something he’s been unable to do.


Perception, not reality. Neither are big turnover guys. Terry slightly more efficient in Ast/TO ratio, but Smart is the one who gets called upon to actually run an offense, especially in light of the Hayward and Kyrie injuries.

Neither of them are ever going to hang their hat on playmaking. Smart is clearly better right now but he’s maybe slightly above average league wide. Essentially a wash with Roziers defense. As I’ve said a dozen times though, right now Smart is the better player, talk to me in 2-3 years, maybe sooner and I don’t think that’s the case
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1224 » by SMTBSI » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 am

sully00 wrote:
itrsteve wrote:Somebody needs to explain to him how the CBA works and the implication if the C’s pay him over the QA and the impact of the upcoming seasons. If you sat him down with the numbers then maybe he wouldn’t feel so insulted if the big picture was known?

I’m torn as I don’t want him to leave, but 18/19 isn’t the season to start the luxury tax counter. There’s a very short window to “go for it” financially and it can’t start until next season.



Boston can go over the tax this year and back under next year and it stops the repeater clock. Honestly the tax really doesn't matter the team is going to pay it. What you can't do is overpay role players. Marcus Smart needs to get paid his job isn't to manage Boston's salary structure. Boston can't get into a 4 year deal with Smart that has them vastly overpaying him for the mins he is playing two years from now that make it a problem to sign Brown and Tatum while keeping and Irving, Haywood, and Horford.

If you value a guy at 11-12 mil then pay him his money. But you can't go to 15-16 mil because you might lose him otherwise, lose him and go pay somebody else to do his job for 5 mil.

Agree in general, but with a couple notes:

1.) Repeater penalty applies if you have been in the tax for three out of four seasons. So going under for one year doesn't exactly "reset" the clock - it just gets you partway to resetting the clock. It's still beneficial to put off the beginning of that 3-in-4 stretch, if possible.

2.) It would just be an awful shame to start the clock because you came in above the tax by like a mil. Not the end of the world, but if you're within a hairsbreadth of staying under anyway, it makes some sense to try to do so, and put off the start of the clock for a year when you're going to be clearly, unavoidably over, like we presumably will be next year.

Basically, you don't want the value of a minimum contract to be the margin by which you're over, because then you're basically paying the tax for that minimum player.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1225 » by TheMartian » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:02 am

grindtime22 wrote:
mzepol wrote:My only gripe with Marcus is he tends to chuck a lot of bricks. Those shots might as well be turnovers and even Smart die-hards have to admit that. Everything else he does helps the team though, so the positives outweigh the negatives. He just has to get better at shooting, or if he can't, then he just has to shoot less.

I hope he stays a Celtic.


His shots are not turnovers. His TS% was 48. That is awful, but .96 points plus offensive rebounds is way better than a turnover.


You're talking about his overall TS%, I'm talking about the bad shots he takes. Those shots might as well be turnovers. Now, if you don't think Marcus takes bad shots, then that's where we disagree.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1226 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:02 am

SMTBSI wrote:
sully00 wrote:
itrsteve wrote:Somebody needs to explain to him how the CBA works and the implication if the C’s pay him over the QA and the impact of the upcoming seasons. If you sat him down with the numbers then maybe he wouldn’t feel so insulted if the big picture was known?

I’m torn as I don’t want him to leave, but 18/19 isn’t the season to start the luxury tax counter. There’s a very short window to “go for it” financially and it can’t start until next season.



Boston can go over the tax this year and back under next year and it stops the repeater clock. Honestly the tax really doesn't matter the team is going to pay it. What you can't do is overpay role players. Marcus Smart needs to get paid his job isn't to manage Boston's salary structure. Boston can't get into a 4 year deal with Smart that has them vastly overpaying him for the mins he is playing two years from now that make it a problem to sign Brown and Tatum while keeping and Irving, Haywood, and Horford.

If you value a guy at 11-12 mil then pay him his money. But you can't go to 15-16 mil because you might lose him otherwise, lose him and go pay somebody else to do his job for 5 mil.

Agree in general, but with a couple notes:

1.) Repeater penalty applies if you have been in the tax for three out of four seasons. So going under for one year doesn't exactly "reset" the clock - it just gets you partway to resetting the clock. It's still beneficial to put off the beginning of that 3-in-4 stretch, if possible.

2.) It would just be an awful shame to start the clock because you came in above the tax by like a mil. Not the end of the world, but if you're within a hairsbreadth of staying under anyway, it makes some sense to try to do so, and put off the start of the clock for a year when you're going to be clearly, unavoidably over, like we presumably will be next year.

Basically, you don't want the value of a minimum contract to be the margin by which you're over, because then you're basically paying the tax for that minimum player.


Well put.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1227 » by grindtime22 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:04 am

KumaJG wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
KumaJG wrote:
You either in full agenda mode,trolling or just don't understand stats.


If you are calling him a knockdown 3-point shooter, you don't understand the term.

FWIW, out of 129 qualified players last year, dude was 127th in FG%, 113th in Adj FG%, 117th in points per shot.


FG% dont matter much, when you are a knockdown shooter from 3, which 38%. Only in your weird universe where 38% is not knockdown.


FG% doesn't matter, but his overall level of efficiency does

His 38% from 3 is good. BUT, it doesn't make up for his level of awful shooting from other areas of the court. His 52% TS is far below league average (55.6).
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1228 » by Ben-N1ce » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:04 am

Meh. If he wants to get paid. See you later. He's marginally improved offensively in the last three years. Frankly that's pathetic. You don't pay big money for intangibles.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1229 » by return2glory » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:10 am

If the Kings rumors are true, they might overpay Smart and there will be a big chance he will take the deal. I don’t feel the Celtics will overpay for Smart.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1230 » by KumaJG » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:14 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
KumaJG wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
If you are calling him a knockdown 3-point shooter, you don't understand the term.

FWIW, out of 129 qualified players last year, dude was 127th in FG%, 113th in Adj FG%, 117th in points per shot.


FG% dont matter much, when you are a knockdown shooter from 3, which 38%. Only in your weird universe where 38% is not knockdown.


Stop making this point. It's not a terrible one. League average on 3s in like 36%, and dude shot 38%. And the 36% includes bigs and scrubs.



All it takes 1-2% to change your tier. Should be obvious if you know what your are talking.

grindtime22 wrote:
KumaJG wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
If you are calling him a knockdown 3-point shooter, you don't understand the term.

FWIW, out of 129 qualified players last year, dude was 127th in FG%, 113th in Adj FG%, 117th in points per shot.


FG% dont matter much, when you are a knockdown shooter from 3, which 38%. Only in your weird universe where 38% is not knockdown.


FG% doesn't matter, but his overall level of efficiency does

His 38% from 3 is good. BUT, it doesn't make up for his level of awful shooting from other areas of the court. His 52% TS is far below league average (55.6).


All you need to be in this league is a 3-D player to get paid. Also Rozier is still somewhat young so he got a little big of upside left. He is getting paid.

Smart dont have the three point shooting so his value is low.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1231 » by Captain_Caveman » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:15 am

KumaJG wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
KumaJG wrote:
FG% dont matter much, when you are a knockdown shooter from 3, which 38%. Only in your weird universe where 38% is not knockdown.


Stop making this point. It's not a terrible one. League average on 3s in like 36%, and dude shot 38%. And the 36% includes bigs and scrubs.



All it takes 1-2% to change your tier. Should be obvious if you know what your are talking.


Cool, will have my dudes tell Curry that.
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Re: A. Sherrod Blakely says Kings preparing Offer Sheet for Smart 

Post#1232 » by colaroaster » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:18 am

8M @ 4yrs= 32M kings do king things
welcome back party in 3, 2, 1
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1233 » by batabatuta » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:24 am

Hope they get this over and done with so we can concentrate on Nader and Larkin's replacements
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1234 » by GregB » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:36 am

itrsteve wrote:Somebody needs to explain to him how the CBA works and the implication if the C’s pay him over the QA and the impact of the upcoming seasons. If you sat him down with the numbers then maybe he wouldn’t feel so insulted if the big picture was known?

I’m torn as I don’t want him to leave, but 18/19 isn’t the season to start the luxury tax counter. There’s a very short window to “go for it” financially and it can’t start until next season.



He doesn’t care about the team situation. He cares about his own. It’s a business. He’s trying to get paid as much money as possible.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1235 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:48 am

Sherrod strikes again! Probably got played by Smart's agent.

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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1236 » by tlee324 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:57 am

Terry is streaky, but not consistent enough to say "knockdown". You need someone that can consistently shoot 40% by hitting 2 out of every 5 attempts on a nightly basis, not 5-8 one night and 1-7 the next. The 38% figure alone doesn't tell the story, you need to watch him game by game to know what kind of shooter he really is.

You could make the claim that he's "developing into" a knockdown shooter, maybe, or claim he's made significant progress compared to his two previous horror show seasons of shooting, but to call him a knockdown shooter now at this stage in his career is wishful thinking at best. He's certainly a better shooter than Smart, but that's not saying much.

Comparing the two is fun, but nearly a pointless exercise. While there are clear reasons to like and "hate" both players, they share the same weakness: inconsistency, and it holds them both from being significant needle-movers for this team; losing either won't stop this team from being contenders. Both are good bench players for a contending team; whoever makes the jump in consistency will be the clear victor in this RealGM battle. Just my opinion: As of right now, Marcus' hustle on defense is the only element between them that you can categorize into the "great" category, as they are fairly average-to-poor at best in the other areas, which puts him ahead. He also runs the pick/roll better than Terry, but that's not saying much. Terry's potential upward trajectory and run/jump athleticism is certainly enticing, though, while Marcus appears to be what he is; this could be a much different conversation a couple of seasons from now.
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Re: Jackie Mac on Marcus Smart's RFA--"He's going for the money" 

Post#1237 » by NYCelticsfan136 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:57 am

Hope it’s not true. I want this guy back here. Who would take his place?
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Re: A. Sherrod Blakely says Kings preparing Offer Sheet for Smart 

Post#1238 » by Afam » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:07 am

Sherrod is not a bad sports reporter. He has broken some sports news .Adrain Wojnarowski gets info from agents and from teams in exchange for favors. Even Chris Broussard said so today. People overhype Adrian Wojonarowski but he is no different from any sports reporter/journalist. Al Sherrod was one of the first people who mentioned the celtics drafting Jaylen Brown. He is not perfect, could do better, but he is ok in my opinion.
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Re: A. Sherrod Blakely says Kings preparing Offer Sheet for Smart 

Post#1239 » by Afam » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:10 am

As far as Marcus Smart goes if the kings offer him 15 or more million, he is gone. No way should the celtics match that. He is gone.

A good offer sheet is where it makes it diffcult for the players current team to match ,or think about matching. Anything close to 10 million, the celtics will match it. It has to start from 14 million ,and up for the celtics not to think about matching it.
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Re: A. Sherrod Blakely says Kings preparing Offer Sheet for Smart 

Post#1240 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:15 am

Not true, according to a source of a Kings reporter. Gonna side with the guy who has sources with the Kings and follows that team closely on this one. I think this is just Smart's agent trying to put pressure on Ainge and to get the most bucks for his client.
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