2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

[jonige94]

For those who are more knowledgeable about college bball, how would you guys rate this years class?

[snowman]

I get that people on here are not very high on Kabengele, so Brad needs to do what he can to get in position to get a big man project that can replace Horford in a year or so. I don't see Kornet being that player. He is just not strong or athletic enough. Being 7'2 is great, but kind of useless when guards can out rebound you.

[ThePigeon]

I get that people on here are not very high on Kabengele, so Brad needs to do what he can to get in position to get a big man project that can replace Horford in a year or so. I don't see Kornet being that player. He is just not strong or athletic enough. Being 7'2 is great, but kind of useless when guards can out rebound you.

Nnaji or Gueye could be that project
Gueye is less of a project but has lower ceiling IMO

[Hal14]

After watching a lot of film of potential big men in our range (slim pickings) I am sold on Mouhamed Gueye
He will be the 3rd best big on our team right away
Good size, strong, nice touch from inside and midrange, nice handle for a big man. Can learn how to defend better and pass from Big Al

Watch on YouTube

Yes - you see the light!

I saw some of his HS vids awhile back too and was super impressed. What's crazy, is that video was shot only a few months after he started playing organized basketball for the first time. He's still just scratching the surface of his potential - but was still one of the top bigs in college basketball this season so the production is already good.

His defense and passing are pretty good. His assist % was 14 this season which is very good for a sophomore big man.

IMO, all he needs to work on getting more comfortable and consistent w/ his shooting, bulk up a little more and maybe try getting more impactful as a rim protector. Al can help him with the shooting, Rob can help him with the rim protection. Both of them (and the trainers) can help him with bulking up a little more.

He'd be in the g league for a year or 2 but after that could be a stud.

[165bows]

Jaquez seems like a good due and the type of player Brad likes. A little bit of D White in there. A bit of size with that A Gordon energy (I'm still feeling AG withdrawal from when we got Fournier instead) but less hops. He could fit in that needed backup wing role for the Celtics.

He does look a bit slow for NBA, from basic eye test, but then again so does D White to me, and White does very well due to his basketball intelligence and timing. Sometimes guys without that innate lateral speed figure out other ways to dictate the tempo through anticipation. Jaime seems like he has a good basketball mind and it runs in the family.

And he's Mexican-American!

I agree with the G League/garbage time prescription. He could end up being a nice steal if given time to work on weaknesses.

Right - I don’t think the eye test always works that well for defense. Scouting report on Draymond was he wasn’t that quick on D, they sort of missed him being an elite versatile, all-NBA defense guy. No one saw Jimmy Butler becoming an elite defensive player. They were bland older dudes.

not really, both were considered good to great potential defenders especially Butler. Scouts couldn't have envisioned Draymond playing small ball 5 which is really where his elite defense stems from. Jaquez could be a better defender than Hauser and not much worse than Grant. If we got him in the 2nd we should count ourselves lucky thought there's other guys I'd rather have over him.

Not really, they were both looked at solid competitive guys with athletic limitations.

Butler may struggle with the athleticism of elite wings at the NBA level, but much like Lazar Hayward and Wesley Matthews before him, he's well versed in compensating for his limitations and takes pride in his play defensively.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/

Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/

My point isn't that Jaquez will be an all-nba defender - but rather that scouts haven't been great at pegging this for guys this size.

[Hal14]

Right - I don’t think the eye test always works that well for defense. Scouting report on Draymond was he wasn’t that quick on D, they sort of missed him being an elite versatile, all-NBA defense guy. No one saw Jimmy Butler becoming an elite defensive player. They were bland older dudes.

not really, both were considered good to great potential defenders especially Butler. Scouts couldn't have envisioned Draymond playing small ball 5 which is really where his elite defense stems from. Jaquez could be a better defender than Hauser and not much worse than Grant. If we got him in the 2nd we should count ourselves lucky thought there's other guys I'd rather have over him.

Not really, they were both looked at solid competitive guys with athletic limitations.

Butler may struggle with the athleticism of elite wings at the NBA level, but much like Lazar Hayward and Wesley Matthews before him, he's well versed in compensating for his limitations and takes pride in his play defensively.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/

Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/

My point isn't that Jaquez will be an all-nba defender - but rather that scouts haven't been great at pegging this for guys this size.

Good find. Also worth noting that interviews, Jaquez has said that Jimmy Butler is the guy he tries to model his game after.

With that being said, Butler and Draymond have been in the league for a long time now. I feel like we are seeing more in depth, more advanced scouting on these draft prospects today than we did 12 years ago. Scouts are gathering more intel and making more of that intel public to fans. There's more film available to scouts and fans now. More advanced stats available to scouts and fans now. I think if Butler and Draymond were in this year's draft, their scouting reports might look a bit different and they probably would have gone higher in the draft too.

Both Butler and Draymond are kind of outliers too. I know that saying that a player "has that dog in him" is becoming a cliche that's losing its meaning. But those are 2 guys who have that dog in them for real. Both are just absolutely fierce competitors. Arguably the 2 fiercest competitors in the whole league right now. 2 guys who aren't afraid to knock a teammate out (like Jordan did to Kerr), not afraid to guarantee a victory in a playoff game - they're a couple of dogs, man. They both want it bad, they want to win bad, they don't care who they're going against - they want to beat you and take all your damn money, haha. They're just built, wired different. Which has helped them to be so good in the NBA despite having perhaps some athletic/physical limitations, being not the greatest shooters..

[Celts17Pride]

I really like Ben Sheppard. Think he would be awesome playing off of Tatum and Brown with his shooting. Sheppard seems to be moving up the draft board, don't think he will be around at #35. Starting to move towards Jaime Jaquez Jr. Jaquez would be a solid choice and could be a backup SG/SF with Hauser. Both Jaquez and Hauser offer something a little different.

[Hal14]

ESPN's latest mock has us taking GG Jackson at 35.

Read on Twitter

I doubt he falls that far in the draft, but if he does, you take him. #14 player on my big board.

If you just rank the prospects based on upside/ceiling/potential, he's top 10 - maybe even top 5.

There's some risk, because some of his stats (like FG% and assist %) were bad. But when you're picking that late in the draft at 35, the potential reward outweighs that risk by a lot, imo.

[Hal14]

For those who are more knowledgeable about college bball, how would you guys rate this years class?

I'd say it's pretty good. You have a guy (Wemby) who many think is the best prospect since LeBron. You have Scoot who many think would go #1 in most drafts. I think even Miller, and the Thompson twins - that gives you 5 really good players who could all be legit franchise altering talents.

Good talent in the rest of the lottery.

Things start to get a little dicey around the 12-15 range, but I think that's the case for most drafts. Definitely looks like some good talent and hidden gems in the 30-45 range. After around pick 45 or 50, it drops off a bit..but again, that's the case for most drafts.

[Kalela]

ESPN's latest mock has us taking GG Jackson at 35.
I doubt he falls that far in the draft, but if he does, you take him. #14 player on my big board.

If you just rank the prospects based on upside/ceiling/potential, he's top 10 - maybe even top 5.

I agree. GG Jackson being that low makes no sense. I watched a game between South Carolina and Alabama and he went toe-to-toe with Brandon Miller, the projected 2nd/3rd pick. Then again, like you mentioned before in this same thread, Givony has access to a lot of GMs and there may be something that teams just don't like about him. He is supposed to be a very low BBIQ and that may be the reason he is not projected lower in the ESPN mock draft but the talent is there.

[leper-con]

GG reminds me of Bonzi Wells

[shackles10]

not really, both were considered good to great potential defenders especially Butler. Scouts couldn't have envisioned Draymond playing small ball 5 which is really where his elite defense stems from. Jaquez could be a better defender than Hauser and not much worse than Grant. If we got him in the 2nd we should count ourselves lucky thought there's other guys I'd rather have over him.

Not really, they were both looked at solid competitive guys with athletic limitations.

Butler may struggle with the athleticism of elite wings at the NBA level, but much like Lazar Hayward and Wesley Matthews before him, he's well versed in compensating for his limitations and takes pride in his play defensively.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/

Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/

My point isn't that Jaquez will be an all-nba defender - but rather that scouts haven't been great at pegging this for guys this size.

Good find. Also worth noting that interviews, Jaquez has said that Jimmy Butler is the guy he tries to model his game after.

With that being said, Butler and Draymond have been in the league for a long time now. I feel like we are seeing more in depth, more advanced scouting on these draft prospects today than we did 12 years ago. Scouts are gathering more intel and making more of that intel public to fans. There's more film available to scouts and fans now. More advanced stats available to scouts and fans now. I think if Butler and Draymond were in this year's draft, their scouting reports might look a bit different and they probably would have gone higher in the draft too.

Both Butler and Draymond are kind of outliers too. I know that saying that a player "has that dog in him" is becoming a cliche that's losing its meaning. But those are 2 guys who have that dog in them for real. Both are just absolutely fierce competitors. Arguably the 2 fiercest competitors in the whole league right now. 2 guys who aren't afraid to knock a teammate out (like Jordan did to Kerr), not afraid to guarantee a victory in a playoff game - they're a couple of dogs, man. They both want it bad, they want to win bad, they don't care who they're going against - they want to beat you and take all your damn money, haha. They're just built, wired different. Which has helped them to be so good in the NBA despite having perhaps some athletic/physical limitations, being not the greatest shooters..

I definitely see Jimmy's mid-range, pump fakes, and footwork present in Jaquez's moves. He gets to his spot and felt in control the entire time like the defender didn't matter. He uses the same tricks over and over like Jimmy too. I'm stopping there with comparisons though lol.

[Dogen]

not really, both were considered good to great potential defenders especially Butler. Scouts couldn't have envisioned Draymond playing small ball 5 which is really where his elite defense stems from. Jaquez could be a better defender than Hauser and not much worse than Grant. If we got him in the 2nd we should count ourselves lucky thought there's other guys I'd rather have over him.

Not really, they were both looked at solid competitive guys with athletic limitations.

Butler may struggle with the athleticism of elite wings at the NBA level, but much like Lazar Hayward and Wesley Matthews before him, he's well versed in compensating for his limitations and takes pride in his play defensively.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/

Unfortunately, Green's defensive deficiencies have become even more pronounced as a senior. At 6'7, he is too small to guard elite post players, and lacks the lateral quickness to defend perimeter players, even face-up power forwards at the NCAA level. While his effort and aggressiveness will never be questioned, it is difficult to project him as an adequate NBA defender at this time.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Draymond-Green-5859/

My point isn't that Jaquez will be an all-nba defender - but rather that scouts haven't been great at pegging this for guys this size.

Good find. Also worth noting that interviews, Jaquez has said that Jimmy Butler is the guy he tries to model his game after.

With that being said, Butler and Draymond have been in the league for a long time now. I feel like we are seeing more in depth, more advanced scouting on these draft prospects today than we did 12 years ago. Scouts are gathering more intel and making more of that intel public to fans. There's more film available to scouts and fans now. More advanced stats available to scouts and fans now. I think if Butler and Draymond were in this year's draft, their scouting reports might look a bit different and they probably would have gone higher in the draft too.

Both Butler and Draymond are kind of outliers too. I know that saying that a player "has that dog in him" is becoming a cliche that's losing its meaning. But those are 2 guys who have that dog in them for real. Both are just absolutely fierce competitors. Arguably the 2 fiercest competitors in the whole league right now. 2 guys who aren't afraid to knock a teammate out (like Jordan did to Kerr), not afraid to guarantee a victory in a playoff game - they're a couple of dogs, man. They both want it bad, they want to win bad, they don't care who they're going against - they want to beat you and take all your damn money, haha. They're just built, wired different. Which has helped them to be so good in the NBA despite having perhaps some athletic/physical limitations, being not the greatest shooters..

Jaquez modeling after Butler is certainly a good indicator, but of course that might also be a fashionable thing to say due to Butler's great recent success.

I totally agree about the "dog in them". It's easy for a player to say that they are ultra competitive, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the court. Overall though, we can get a sense of players' competitive nature, talent, shooting, ball handling, grace under pressure and athleticism from watching them in games, whether in college or NBA.

What is harder to evaluate is intelligence (maybe court awareness is a better word).

In Draymond's case, we knew that he was undersized for front court defense. His drive, skill and that great wingspan has really helped. In Butler's case, he's very athletic and a physical specimen.

BUT, both those players obviously do their homework. To put it another way, they know their opponent's bag, often sizing up a move before it happens. These guys are super smart and put time in with their brains as well as working on their bodies and skills. The road to the NBA is strewn with the carrion of guys with all the athleticism in the world, but they just didn't put it all together.

One of the objectives of the team in these workouts is to get a sense of a candidate's court awareness/intelligence, which seems to me would be difficult to do in a limited sample outside the actual games. The team is bringing in a lot of candidates to workouts this year, and I'm sure Brad is valuing the interview process -- maybe as highly as the on-court drills -- as that may be how the best "steals" are found.

[Dogen]

Man, Bilal Coulibaly moves into late lotto acc to latest CBS and ESPN mocks:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2023-nba-mock-draft-scoot-henderson-goes-ahead-of-brandon-miller-at-no-2-lakers-land-elite-sharpshooter/

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37838983/2023-nba-mock-draft-why-scoot-henderson-play-no-2

[playa-hater]

For those who are more knowledgeable about college bball, how would you guys rate this years class?

I'd say it's pretty good. You have a guy (Wemby) who many think is the best prospect since LeBron. You have Scoot who many think would go #1 in most drafts. I think even Miller, and the Thompson twins - that gives you 5 really good players who could all be legit franchise altering talents.

Good talent in the rest of the lottery.

Things start to get a little dicey around the 12-15 range, but I think that's the case for most drafts. Definitely looks like some good talent and hidden gems in the 30-45 range. After around pick 45 or 50, it drops off a bit..but again, that's the case for most drafts.

The top 3 are very good highlighted by a Freak at #1. The rest seems rather normal.. Don't consider either below or above average. But will add that I am less involved this year than others in the draft. I guess having only a 2nd can do that to me.

[GoGreen]

Got a lot of guys we've worked out. Take your pick!

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-draft-workout-tracker-prospects/

[Hal14]

Read on Twitter

Cool nugget on there about him helping out in the community. The Celtics definitely look for stuff like that - high character guys.

[playa-hater]

Got a lot of guys we've worked out. Take your pick!

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-draft-workout-tracker-prospects/

The Celtics or most everyone are taking in a ton of prospects. Good .. But damn there are so many players. Way more than in my day. The world of BB has grown so much. Feel bad about the ton of players who won't ever get drafted yet may be good enough to be an NBA player.

[playa-hater]

Read on Twitter

Still haven't figured out who my top 5 wish list is because players are still all over the place. But If Boston took him I would not complain.

My Formular is still the same. High level of Defense and an OK Shooter. Or High Level of Shooting and an OK defender. But one part has to stand out. I don't want someone who can do everything decently but does nothing well.

I also stated that since Hauser is a potentially great shooting Wing with OK defense I might want the opposite. Potentially great defender, But at least be an OK shooter.

I also like a "junk yard Dog type" We haven't had one in years, upfront I mean. Smart is a guard.

*** side note. I have a shaved head.. So we connect there.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Man, Bilal Coulibaly moves into late lotto acc to latest CBS and ESPN mocks:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2023-nba-mock-draft-scoot-henderson-goes-ahead-of-brandon-miller-at-no-2-lakers-land-elite-sharpshooter/

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37838983/2023-nba-mock-draft-why-scoot-henderson-play-no-2

I feel far less lonely on my Coulibaly hype train recently