Hal’s Draft Thread

[ICeeYou]

If you want to think percentages, let's talk 100%.

I would literally take every player taken in the second round last year over Edwards and Waters.

And this current draft IMO is deeper than that draft.

If Brad and Co do their homework on this draft, I think they will see that talent there. And that's why I expect this pick to be made on a player that will be on our roster next year.

That’s great. But none of them have really proven a whole lot. Having a preference for other guys is understandable. the question for me is whether a guy will make an impact on wins and losses.

And none of those guys are really at that level.

It's more than a preference. It's a preference based on the recognition that we have roster spots devoted to players who we know can't contribute.

Once you know that, it changes how you look at your assets.

You are describing how most of those teams view their second round picks over the last few years.

[winsomme2]

That’s great. But none of them have really proven a whole lot. Having a preference for other guys is understandable. the question for me is whether a guy will make an impact on wins and losses.

And none of those guys are really at that level.

It's more than a preference. It's a preference based on the recognition that we have roster spots devoted to players who we know can't contribute.

Once you know that, it changes how you look at your assets.

You are describing how most of those teams view their second round picks over the last few years.

But part of my point is that I would be surprised if ANY team looks at their second round pick from last year as being a player who they know can't contribute....thus the 100% observation about that draft and then the observation that this draft is deeper than last years

[Andrew McCeltic]

Edwards is a disappointment.. Can’t remember what we were trying to do with the cap, but we would’ve been better off keeping the 1st and drafting Thybulle..

Not sure what they’ve been hoping for from Waters - that he’d learn to play undersized? He’s a legitimately gifted point, he’s just small.

The grass isn’t always greener.. and the second round just isn’t a reliable place to find talent - no team can do it consistently.

[ICeeYou]

Last years draft it was the same chatter. Lots of guys who were viewed as capable players deep into the draft.

[winsomme2]

Oh for sure.

I think we are still at the same point. You are looking at second picks as historically non-contributors and I am looking specifically at this draft as a a wealth of talent.

Time will tell...

[winsomme2]

Players that could be there at 45 who IMO would jump above Grant Williams on the depth chart next season:

Trey Murphy
Moses Wright
Jereniah Robinson Earl
Herb Jones
Joe Wieskamp
Juliam Champagnie

There are others that I like more than Grant but would take longer to adjust to the NBA like:

Greg Brown
Marcus Bagley
Matthew Hurt

[Half-Full]

It's true that the second round of the draft does not usually get a team a keeper, particularly one who is more than just an end of bench guy. The majority don't even make the cut for an end of bench role. There are no guarantees, and there are many first round selections that prove to be disappointing. That said, one can't win the lottery if one does not purchase a ticket. Like some others, I see this draft as being particularly strong if one is interested in drafting a center or a guard. While the odds of getting a winning ticket are still long, they are better than the usual odds. Where is the down side to drafting a player at pick #45?

[cloverleaf]

Edwards is a disappointment.. Can’t remember what we were trying to do with the cap, but we would’ve been better off keeping the 1st and drafting Thybulle..

Not sure what they’ve been hoping for from Waters - that he’d learn to play undersized? He’s a legitimately gifted point, he’s just small.

The grass isn’t always greener.. and the second round just isn’t a reliable place to find talent - no team can do it consistently.

Must be a fascinating dynamic as Austin offers his recommendations on the draft to Brad.

[Curmudgeon]

Julian is going back to St. Johns for another year.

[Curmudgeon]

No, the second round isn't where you go to find talent. But once in awhile....

There are some very interesting Euro bigs in this year's second round: Badji, Sylla, Maker, Petrusev. Diop, Huckporti.

And is there any love for Raquan Gray as a very poor man's Zion Williamson?

[RickyDizzle]

Trying to remember second-round picks we’ve done ok on.. Orien Greene, Justin Reed, Semi..

The safest bet is usually guys with NBA bodies and transferable defense.. low upside, but the talent to be a reliable end of the bench roleplayer..

Ainge has a pretty solid track record with 2nd rounders. Leon Powe, Big Baby Davis, Ryan Gomes, Semi, Etuan Moore, Abdel Nader. To me, the Celtics will be pretty capstrapped from now on between the Jay's extensions and potentially the next contracts of Fournier and Smart (or acquisition of a max player). Given that, the opportunity to get low-cost players with upside under team control is huge.

A Draymond Green/Jokic is very unlikely but possible... another Big Baby Davis or a version of Semi who is physically less impressive but more skilled is very helpful.

I challenge the 45th pick naysayers to watch Moses Wright and tell me he wouldn't get real minutes for us at the 4. That's just one name but taking flyers on college aged guys with upside and hoping you get at least a rotation player is the name of the game in 2nd and still very valuable to the team.

Now if we still had pick 16, this thread would be more interesting but plenty of guys to get excited about at 45 too. And yes, they're all a bit of a gamble. Nothing wrong with that.

[playa-hater]

Ok give me your top 5 of guys that you see as being available after the 40th pick in the draft.

Because in the last 10 drafts, I’d say that there’s probably less than 10 guys drafted after the 40th pick that you’d be thrilled to draft. 10 out of 200 in the last 10 years. So maybe you will be 1 of the 20 draft picks that hits this year haha

If the Celtics had a whole new front office with like Sam Presti I’d probably be more excited. But maybe now that Brad is ultimately making the call he will have the Midas touch.

I like some of the guys, but I don’t see a ton of separation between the PG prospects in that range and Yam. The Celtics need a PG of some sort so, a little competition in camp between Yam, Waters, and Edwards for that spot is fine for me (largely because I really want the ball in Brown and Tatum’s hands a lot. And because I have a sneaky feeling Romeo could thrive under a new voice at head coach).

I’m hoping the Celtics can move Thompson and a rookie scale player/pick for a legitimate contributor. Edwards still probably holds some value as a toss in because frankly, he has decent tape (when he gets it going he’s a fun little spark plug) and sneaky athleticism. He also seems like extremely young in his personality (which is not a plus watching the growing pains but is something you can use to trick yourself into thinking he may mature) from the outside looking in.

The funny thing is that the Celtics have picked up some guys and let them go really early who’ve gone on to be decent pros. I’m thinking of Royce O’Neale, the Stanford kid in Dallas, E’Twaun, etc.

Unceremoniously dumping someone like Edwards or Grant can not really kill you, but it could backfire on a small scale at times.

My main point is that, I agree that a consolidation trade would be ideal. Gives them a bit more room to maneuver. Barring that, I’m giving preference to Ime being able to find some vets to help him build that culture he wants.

Im sort of going on the suspicion that Fournier will be a cap (luxury tax) casualty. If he leaves, I really think you’re going to need a full bargain hunt for veterans to have enough stability in the lineup.

There’s definitely a path to doing both. But if you can’t get that done, you gotta give an edge to the draft-stash + vet combination.

after 40? just in the last two drafts there's been over a dozen who I'd rather have than what we had on the bench:

Bol
THT
Reid
Woodard
Reed
Stanley
Roby
McDaniels
Paschall
Brissett
Dort
Hall
Mane

going back 10 years? I'd add:

Barton
Bertans
Jokic
Powell
Clarkson
Bryant
Brooks
Diallo
Metu
Milton
Tate
Forbes
Caruso
VanVleet
Wood
Theis
Covington
Dragic
Robinson
Nunn

if you are good at evaluating talent, it can be found at all points during and even after the draft. Danny's draft futility is why we've had one of the worst benches in the league.

I can't agree

My fault BostonCoachGM I totally misprinted my response. I meant to write, I couldn't agree more.. way too much talent and every year there are gems. need to scout/evaluate talent better and find them.

[playa-hater]

62 page thread about the 45th pick…love the fanatics on this forum!

Keep the pick and try and move up to the high 30s. If not, you get a rookie anyway, boom or bust you should always hit that draft well.

I agree that we just need to make a damn decision on Edwards, Waters and Fall. I don’t even care either way (keep or punt), but having them watch games on the bench for another season doesn’t help us at all.

methinks you trying to hurt me feelings.. can't.. I have thick skin...

Love live fanatics!!

[playa-hater]

Players that could be there at 45 who IMO would jump above Grant Williams on the depth chart next season:

Trey Murphy
Moses Wright
Jereniah Robinson Earl
Herb Jones
Joe Wieskamp
Juliam Champagnie

There are others that I like more than Grant but would take longer to adjust to the NBA like:

Greg Brown
Marcus Bagley
Matthew Hurt

You are on a roll and I like it.. good list

[ICeeYou]

Just watched the Moses Wright breakdown and while he has some definite tools to work with he gets cooked up in pick and roll coverage.

That’s the one skill a PF-C tweener needs to have to make it in the NBA.

[sam_I_am]

Edwards is a disappointment.. Can’t remember what we were trying to do with the cap, but we would’ve been better off keeping the 1st and drafting Thybulle..

Not sure what they’ve been hoping for from Waters - that he’d learn to play undersized? He’s a legitimately gifted point, he’s just small.

The grass isn’t always greener.. and the second round just isn’t a reliable place to find talent - no team can do it consistently.

At the time of the draft, Carsen was looked upon as a steal and he excelled in summer league too. So a few years later he looks like he isn’t a great pick. Oh well, what more do you want? Some players fail to meet expectations. When it’s a #1 pick it’s a disaster. When it’s a second round pick, who the $&#@ really cares?

So Thybulle is a little better. He’s still a jag that doesn’t move the needle at all in the big picture. So Brandon Clarke had a better rookie year than Grant. He still doesn’t make a difference in whether or not this team wins a title.

The thought process behind that draft was sound and it didn’t work out perfectly. Honestly, Ainge could have given those picks away and it wouldn’t change a thing. Phoenix drafted Alex Len, Jackson, Dragon Bender etc. and so many other busts and then made one trade for Chris Paul and are in the finals and favorites to win it all.

The big picture is that we have 2 young studs on the verge of a legit 4-5 year runand the team needs to bring in the right pieces. Late first round draft picks and second rounders are great when you get lucky and land a guy like Jokic or Green but 99% of the time they flame out.

[Curmudgeon]

Some teams make their own luck. There are blind guesses and informed guesses.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Edwards is a disappointment.. Can’t remember what we were trying to do with the cap, but we would’ve been better off keeping the 1st and drafting Thybulle..

Not sure what they’ve been hoping for from Waters - that he’d learn to play undersized? He’s a legitimately gifted point, he’s just small.

The grass isn’t always greener.. and the second round just isn’t a reliable place to find talent - no team can do it consistently.

At the time of the draft, Carsen was looked upon as a steal and he excelled in summer league too. So a few years later he looks like he isn’t a great pick. Oh well, what more do you want? Some players fail to meet expectations. When it’s a #1 pick it’s a disaster. When it’s a second round pick, who the $&#@ really cares?

So Thybulle is a little better. He’s still a jag that doesn’t move the needle at all in the big picture. So Brandon Clarke had a better rookie year than Grant. He still doesn’t make a difference in whether or not this team wins a title.

The thought process behind that draft was sound and it didn’t work out perfectly. Honestly, Ainge could have given those picks away and it wouldn’t change a thing. Phoenix drafted Alex Len, Jackson, Dragon Bender etc. and so many other busts and then made one trade for Chris Paul and are in the finals and favorites to win it all.

The big picture is that we have 2 young studs on the verge of a legit 4-5 year runand the team needs to bring in the right pieces. Late first round draft picks and second rounders are great when you get lucky and land a guy like Jokic or Green but 99% of the time they flame out.

I liked the Edwards pick well enough at the time, but.. Thybulle was a much safer pick, higher floor.. would have been better in hindsight. Danny got a little too cute. Were we trying to shave salary to max Kemba that year?

Loved the Grant pick, this year was disappointing.

[ICeeYou]

Edwards is a disappointment.. Can’t remember what we were trying to do with the cap, but we would’ve been better off keeping the 1st and drafting Thybulle..

Not sure what they’ve been hoping for from Waters - that he’d learn to play undersized? He’s a legitimately gifted point, he’s just small.

The grass isn’t always greener.. and the second round just isn’t a reliable place to find talent - no team can do it consistently.

At the time of the draft, Carsen was looked upon as a steal and he excelled in summer league too. So a few years later he looks like he isn’t a great pick. Oh well, what more do you want? Some players fail to meet expectations. When it’s a #1 pick it’s a disaster. When it’s a second round pick, who the $&#@ really cares?

So Thybulle is a little better. He’s still a jag that doesn’t move the needle at all in the big picture. So Brandon Clarke had a better rookie year than Grant. He still doesn’t make a difference in whether or not this team wins a title.

The thought process behind that draft was sound and it didn’t work out perfectly. Honestly, Ainge could have given those picks away and it wouldn’t change a thing. Phoenix drafted Alex Len, Jackson, Dragon Bender etc. and so many other busts and then made one trade for Chris Paul and are in the finals and favorites to win it all.

The big picture is that we have 2 young studs on the verge of a legit 4-5 year runand the team needs to bring in the right pieces. Late first round draft picks and second rounders are great when you get lucky and land a guy like Jokic or Green but 99% of the time they flame out.

I liked the Edwards pick well enough at the time, but.. Thybulle was a much safer pick, higher floor.. would have been better in hindsight. Danny got a little too cute. Were we trying to shave salary to max Kemba that year?

Loved the Grant pick, this year was disappointing.

Pretty clearly, the had Romeo in their pocket and decided that Romeo projected into a similar role but was a better prospect. So they did the sensible thing and capitalized on the interest in Thybulle to turn him into two college players they felt could come in and contribute as role guys with NBA ready bodies in Carsen and Grant.

I think that basically though, these are the types of guys who have a chance to become rotation players and so far it’s not really panned out for either player. Like most second round late first rounders though, they still hold some potential.

I know it’s fun to make jokes about end of the bench guys but they are both guys another organization would pick up thinking they could slot them into the roles the Celtics thought they could play.

[cloverleaf]

At the time of the draft, Carsen was looked upon as a steal and he excelled in summer league too. So a few years later he looks like he isn’t a great pick. Oh well, what more do you want? Some players fail to meet expectations. When it’s a #1 pick it’s a disaster. When it’s a second round pick, who the $&#@ really cares?

So Thybulle is a little better. He’s still a jag that doesn’t move the needle at all in the big picture. So Brandon Clarke had a better rookie year than Grant. He still doesn’t make a difference in whether or not this team wins a title.

The thought process behind that draft was sound and it didn’t work out perfectly. Honestly, Ainge could have given those picks away and it wouldn’t change a thing. Phoenix drafted Alex Len, Jackson, Dragon Bender etc. and so many other busts and then made one trade for Chris Paul and are in the finals and favorites to win it all.

The big picture is that we have 2 young studs on the verge of a legit 4-5 year runand the team needs to bring in the right pieces. Late first round draft picks and second rounders are great when you get lucky and land a guy like Jokic or Green but 99% of the time they flame out.

I liked the Edwards pick well enough at the time, but.. Thybulle was a much safer pick, higher floor.. would have been better in hindsight. Danny got a little too cute. Were we trying to shave salary to max Kemba that year?

Loved the Grant pick, this year was disappointing.

Pretty clearly, the had Romeo in their pocket and decided that Romeo projected into a similar role but was a better prospect. So they did the sensible thing and capitalized on the interest in Thybulle to turn him into two college players they felt could come in and contribute as role guys with NBA ready bodies in Carsen and Grant.

I think that basically though, these are the types of guys who have a chance to become rotation players and so far it’s not really panned out for either player. Like most second round late first rounders though, they still hold some potential.

I know it’s fun to make jokes about end of the bench guys but they are both guys another organization would pick up thinking they could slot them into the roles the Celtics thought they could play.

Carsen Edwards with an NBA-ready body?