Summer League 2024, Multi-Game Thread – Celtics finish 2-3, in Vegas

[phincsfan]

With KP out until January, the 9th and 10th spot is up for grabs.

I think Joe goes with a 10-man rotation this season.

Springer has the edge over Rico and Watson.

I keep going back to the Pacers series and considering the injury to Mathurin (losing him in March) Carlisle did a lot with that rotation. He trusted his back end of the the rotation players. He trusted Nembhard, Sheppard and Jackson alot in the playoffs. They were at the hail mary stage at that point, but those guys did play alot during the regular season, not just garbage minutes. 13 players on Indy's roster touched at least 700 minutes.

I'm not knocking Joe one bit. He did what was best to get the C's banner #18 and if that's keeping the rotation small than that's the way it had to be. Everything shrinks for the better teams in the playoffs. BUT, it showed a little of an issue in the playoffs when bench guys struggled there was that hesitancy to go to the bench. Now XMan is a pro's pro and he won't hurt you when he's in but that wasn't because Joe worked him into the rotation during his 2 dozen games with the C's. He's a player who's good enough to adjust and play well when he's called on. Oshae gave you that one burst, many people wanted to see him more but was he really a trusted part of that rotation during the regular season? IMO, no. Understandable because he can't shoot and you need to shoot to be effective for this offense. They won #18 because the thoroughbreds came to the race and you can tell that the 5 main players were not going to be denied. JT, JB, AL, Jrue and White were not going to let that team lose. Sam and PP were sprinkled in and KP won game 1 of the Miami series. IMO, they didn't need him for the Mavs series.

This is why I believe that getting the #1 seed thoughout the playoffs or even getting it in the East conference isn't the main priority this season. KP being out until 25' causes two dilemmas. One, you lose his production and two AL's age comes into play. This team had NO injury set backs during the season. They managed KP to the point that if he did get nicked, you didn't realize it because he was being managed all season.

The rotation should go to 10 guys, but guys need meaningful minutes, not garbage time. Oshae couldn't shoot, Stevens and Banton showed when they went to Memphis and Portland that they still couldn't shoot. Can't knock Brad for taking flyers on hustle guys.

For the bigs Luke should stay at his 15mpg, but Neems and XMan should get closer to 20mpg each during KP's absence. XMan will be ready for the playoffs either way, but IMO Neems needs to get situated from the jump. Get him acclimated with the rotation whether he's in with the starters or when Pritchard or Sam are on the floor. I like Watson but I understand that his experience may cause hesitancy to get him minutes, but with KP out that may be the best time to see what you got. I threw out the Grant comparison last week. Grant was thrown into the fire year 1 and he did more good than bad IMO. Some players have that maturity to do that. I think Watson has that maturity.

A rotation of JB, JT, AL, Jrue, White, PP, Sam, XMan, Springer, Neems, Luke would keep guys fresh and prepared for the playoffs. I'm on the Watson train, so sneak him in also.

[Fierce1]

Read on Twitter

JB should realize that he can't say whatever he wants because there are consequences.

Is this in regards to the lip reading service that was done between him and his girl? In that situation isn't it alright to say whatever he wants? It's not like he was being interviewed or he was on a show and gave his two cents about the nepo baby.

Guys like Lebron, KD, and Kyrie have learned to cover their mouths when they talk to each other when there are cameras around.

It's just different when the player has reached superstar status.

For ordinary people, saying something to your girl, like what JB did in Vegas, won't be a big deal.

[phincsfan]

Scheirman needs to hit some shots. His shooting has been awful
So far

The thing with Rico is he's a gunner right now. With the spacing in the NBA I'm sure they see him being more of a productive spot up shooter like Sam. Sam's a sniper. Hopefully it will be an easy adjustment for him. From what I've seen of his college tape and now with SL he wants to put the ball on the floor first. That's going to make those pull-ups much harder than just catch and shoot.

[Red2]

Should have drafted filipowski. scheirman looks super slow . I think Zvi was good off the bench

[Red2]

On the other hand I love Springer; I liked him on the Sixers and think he was a great pick up

[Gant]

After three games, the summer league players who might actually matter list-

Queta is ready to compete for a place in the for real rotation.

In one game the veteran-yet-still-very-young Springer only helped himself. His ability to defend along with that seemingly improved offense could earn him a chance at Brissett type sporadic minutes, provided Brissett doesn't come back and take them himself.

Watson's all anyone could hope for from a late second rounder. Like Springer, defense opens an imaginable future path to NBA playing time. His power forward size is a rarity on the big roster, which helps too.

Scheierman has looked uncomfortable in adjusting to this level. Still, glimmers of talent and bball iq regularly show. It feels possible for him to find some footing before Las Vegas ends.

[Hal14]

With KP out until January, the 9th and 10th spot is up for grabs.

I think Joe goes with a 10-man rotation this season.

Springer has the edge over Rico and Watson.

I see no reason why he would go with a 10 man rotation. He's never done that before.

It's typically 8 guys. Sometimes goes 9 deep with the 9th guy getting a really low amount of mins.

With KP out:

C horford
F tatum
F brown
G white
G Jrue

Bench: Hauser, Pritchard and either Tillman or Kornet

If a 9th guy is needed (for a very low amount of mins) you either go big (with Tillman/Kornet) or you go small with Springer

[Red2]

Baylor has slow feet which is a big concern to me. He can’t guard guys in the G league. How’s that going to work when he goes against real NBA players? I like his passing and court savvy and I do thinking his shooting will come around. C’s probably think his D will improve like Hauser’s did but I’m not sure about that

[brackdan70]

JB should realize that he can't say whatever he wants because there are consequences.

Is this in regards to the lip reading service that was done between him and his girl? In that situation isn't it alright to say whatever he wants? It's not like he was being interviewed or he was on a show and gave his two cents about the nepo baby.

Guys like Lebron, KD, and Kyrie have learned to cover their mouths when they talk to each other when there are cameras around.

It's just different when the player has reached superstar status.

For ordinary people, saying something to your girl, like what JB did in Vegas, won't be a big deal.

Pretty dumb thing for Arenas to say. JB didn’t shoot well in his first summer league, but nobody said he didn’t look like an NBA player. He showed his tremendous athleticism, defensive upside and ability to get to the line. He averaged 16 points, 6 boards and 2.3 steals. He was raw but the talent was obviously there.
Bronny is nothing like that. Raw, but clearly not an NBA talent. Virtually everyone is in agreement that he has a lot of work to do to even stick in the league.

[Hal14]

Baylor has slow feet which is a big concern to me. He can’t guard guys in the G league. How’s that going to work when he goes against real NBA players? I like his passing and court savvy and I do thinking his shooting will come around. C’s probably think his D will improve like Hauser’s did but I’m not sure about that

Yeah I think like a lot of guys, he might just need to spend most of year 1 in the G league, as an adjustment/development year to work on his defense, get used to the speed of the game, get used to playing against NBA caliber size/speed/athleticism. And to get used to the NBA distance 3 pt line.

Hauser was bad defensively coming out of college too. He needed that first year in the G league to adjust and to work on his defense. I think it also helped him to improve defensively by having to defend the Jays in practice (even if he was in g league most of rookie year, there was still a good amount of practice time he got vs them in training camp, offseason workouts, practices during the season, etc.

Max Strus also spent year 1 in G league. So did Duncan Robinson. So did Derrick White. So did like half the guys who got drafted in the 1st round last year (Clowney, Whitehead, Bufkin, Jarace Walker, Taylor Hendricks, Jett Howard, etc.)

It's a very normal path these days to spend most of year 1 in g league to get acclimated and develop..

Seems like that is needed for Scheierman, not just to work on his defense but also get his shooting more consistent (seems like he has kind of a slow/low release and is struggling a bit to get the shot off and have it be accurate vs these NBA caliber defenders (while adjusting to deeper NBA 3 pt line).

[Hal14]

3 games in, Walsh 0-12 on 3-pointers. Not a good look young fella.

Yeah it's weird..and disappointing, but small sample size.

But still, how do you go from like 37% from 3 last year in SL and 35% from 3 last year in the G league to 0/12?

[cloverleaf]

With KP out until January, the 9th and 10th spot is up for grabs.

I think Joe goes with a 10-man rotation this season.

Springer has the edge over Rico and Watson.

I see no reason why he would go with a 10 man rotation. He's never done that before.

It's typically 8 guys. Sometimes goes 9 deep with the 9th guy getting a really low amount of mins.

With KP out:

C horford
F tatum
F brown
G white
G Jrue

Bench: Hauser, Pritchard and either Tillman or Kornet

If a 9th guy is needed (for a very low amount of mins) you either go big (with Tillman/Kornet) or you go small with Springer

With KP out, Al's games probably more restricted than ever, and a clear team imperative now to develop the young guys, I see even with everyone healthy a regular dip to 10 or 11 deep on the roster. And with at least someone out on injury more often than not, that could even go to 11 to 12.

But I think Watson burrows his way into the rotation sooner than later. A heady defensive player who can shoot the 3 and has size will be invaluable off the bench.

[ParticleMan]

Baylor has slow feet which is a big concern to me. He can’t guard guys in the G league. How’s that going to work when he goes against real NBA players? I like his passing and court savvy and I do thinking his shooting will come around. C’s probably think his D will improve like Hauser’s did but I’m not sure about that

no slower than hauser.

D isn't necessarily just about quick feet. it's also about strength, savvy, and anticipation. hauser was a disaster on D when he first showed up, it took 3 years but now he is at least solid enough that teams can't go hauser hunting anymore. i don't see why rico can't get there.

[shackles10]

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Clears things up on his nickname is now Twonster and it's a good one imo.

[Hal14]

With KP out until January, the 9th and 10th spot is up for grabs.

I think Joe goes with a 10-man rotation this season.

Springer has the edge over Rico and Watson.

I see no reason why he would go with a 10 man rotation. He's never done that before.

It's typically 8 guys. Sometimes goes 9 deep with the 9th guy getting a really low amount of mins.

With KP out:

C horford
F tatum
F brown
G white
G Jrue

Bench: Hauser, Pritchard and either Tillman or Kornet

If a 9th guy is needed (for a very low amount of mins) you either go big (with Tillman/Kornet) or you go small with Springer

With KP out, Al's games probably more restricted than ever, and a clear team imperative now to develop the young guys, I see even with everyone healthy a regular dip to 10 or 11 deep on the roster. And with at least someone out on injury more often than not, that could even go to 11 to 12.

But I think Watson burrows his way into the rotation sooner than later. A heady defensive player who can shoot the 3 and has size will be invaluable off the bench.

I'm not sure if Joe goes quite that deep but you might be right. I mean, I could see him playing 11 or 12 guys but maybe just not all in the same game (if it's a close game).

Agreed that Watson could find himself getting some minutes.

I listed 10 guys in my post..but if we have to deeper than that, the next guys who appear ready to contribute are Queta and Watson so that makes 12 (not counting KP)..That should be plenty of of bodies, and able to keep fresh legs in there, and rest different guys on different nights..

[darrendaye]

Baylor has slow feet which is a big concern to me. He can’t guard guys in the G league. How’s that going to work when he goes against real NBA players? I like his passing and court savvy and I do thinking his shooting will come around. C’s probably think his D will improve like Hauser’s did but I’m not sure about that

no slower than hauser.

D isn't necessarily just about quick feet. it's also about strength, savvy, and anticipation. hauser was a disaster on D when he first showed up, it took 3 years but now he is at least solid enough that teams can't go hauser hunting anymore. i don't see why rico can't get there.

Main issue I saw with him defensively is he seemed to stop moving his feet closer to the basket. A few shots he didn't even bother to challenge. Hauser's gotten SO GOOD, technically, challenging with verticality. Scheierman can contort and weave around screens pretty well and wasn't awful sliding laterally when he was set and engaged. Needs to finish better.

[phincsfan]

Read on Twitter

It's hysterical that Arenas actually put the nepo baby and JB together in that analogy.

[BK_2020]

This team had NO injury set backs during the season. They managed KP to the point that if he did get nicked, you didn't realize it because he was being managed all season.

Our top 6 played 408 games in the regular season, which is certainly higher than the injury-hit teams like the Sixers (300ish), Cavs (350ish), but not as healthy as the Bucks (441), the Thunder (460 counting Cason Wallace as 6th), Nuggets (450), or the Pacers whose big injury was to Haliburton who still played 69 games, just 1 fewer than Jaylen Brown. Most top seeds were healthier than us. Other than the Cavs, I don't think there was a single top 4 seed whose top 6 guys played fewer games than our top 6.

[phincsfan]

This team had NO injury set backs during the season. They managed KP to the point that if he did get nicked, you didn't realize it because he was being managed all season.

Our top 6 played 408 games in the regular season, which is certainly higher than the injury-hit teams like the Sixers (300ish), Cavs (350ish), but not as healthy as the Bucks (441), the Thunder (460 counting Cason Wallace as 6th), Nuggets (450), or the Pacers whose big injury was to Haliburton who still played 69 games, just 1 fewer than Jaylen Brown. Most top seeds were healthier than us. Other than the Cavs, I don't think there was a single top 4 seed whose top 6 guys played fewer games than our top 6.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a matter of health/injury rather than load management. Outside of KP (who you could say is guaranteed to miss time due to an injury)the only injury I remember was Jrue's dead arm. Other than that I don't think anybody missed more than one game in a row due to an injury. I think White missed early because of a birth and the end of the season guys were benched. The staff managed this team exceptional all year and they pretty much missed the injury bug except for Jrue.

Was there a point during the regular season where you thought "wow this injury could derail this season"? The staff prepared the team the whole season to play without KP. He played they won, he missed time they won. When he came back they never skipped a beat.

I'm interested to see how they prepare for life without KP until 25'. They have shown they can win without him.

[cloverleaf]

I see no reason why he would go with a 10 man rotation. He's never done that before.

It's typically 8 guys. Sometimes goes 9 deep with the 9th guy getting a really low amount of mins.

With KP out:

C horford
F tatum
F brown
G white
G Jrue

Bench: Hauser, Pritchard and either Tillman or Kornet

If a 9th guy is needed (for a very low amount of mins) you either go big (with Tillman/Kornet) or you go small with Springer

With KP out, Al's games probably more restricted than ever, and a clear team imperative now to develop the young guys, I see even with everyone healthy a regular dip to 10 or 11 deep on the roster. And with at least someone out on injury more often than not, that could even go to 11 to 12.

But I think Watson burrows his way into the rotation sooner than later. A heady defensive player who can shoot the 3 and has size will be invaluable off the bench.

I'm not sure if Joe goes quite that deep but you might be right. I mean, I could see him playing 11 or 12 guys but maybe just not all in the same game (if it's a close game).

Agreed that Watson could find himself getting some minutes.

I listed 10 guys in my post..but if we have to deeper than that, the next guys who appear ready to contribute are Queta and Watson so that makes 12 (not counting KP)..That should be plenty of of bodies, and able to keep fresh legs in there, and rest different guys on different nights..

RIght. I certainly don't mean all in one game, unless it's garbage time in a blowout, of course.