Summer League 2024, Multi-Game Thread – Celtics finish 2-3, in Vegas

[phincsfan]

With KP out, Al's games probably more restricted than ever, and a clear team imperative now to develop the young guys, I see even with everyone healthy a regular dip to 10 or 11 deep on the roster. And with at least someone out on injury more often than not, that could even go to 11 to 12.

But I think Watson burrows his way into the rotation sooner than later. A heady defensive player who can shoot the 3 and has size will be invaluable off the bench.

I'm not sure if Joe goes quite that deep but you might be right. I mean, I could see him playing 11 or 12 guys but maybe just not all in the same game (if it's a close game).

Agreed that Watson could find himself getting some minutes.

I listed 10 guys in my post..but if we have to deeper than that, the next guys who appear ready to contribute are Queta and Watson so that makes 12 (not counting KP)..That should be plenty of of bodies, and able to keep fresh legs in there, and rest different guys on different nights..

RIght. I certainly don't mean all in one game, unless it's garbage time in a blowout, of course.

AL sits back to backs. XMan has had knee issues each year. Luke has been steady but his limitations causes matchup issues against certain teams so he can't be an everyday player. Neems is unknown because of the lack of playing time in the bigs. This is where Grant showed his value. He played alot and played big at 6'6". He did what Sully did for the C's. He gave the coaches confidence. At 6'8" Watson could be what Jackson Davis is for the Warriors.

Feet to the fire this year.

[shackles10]

Read on Twitter

It's hysterical that Arenas actually put the nepo baby and JB together in that analogy.

This is the same Gilbert Arenas who's mentioned several times how Lebron asked him to look after Bronny, coach him and get him ready in whatever way he needed to make the NBA. They're clearly close in an uncle who's not an uncle kind of way and he also probably takes it personally that he has went on record as having an involvement in Bronny's development, has vouched for him, and now isn't performing.

[phincsfan]

Read on Twitter

It's hysterical that Arenas actually put the nepo baby and JB together in that analogy.

This is the same Gilbert Arenas who's mentioned several times how Lebron asked him to look after Bronny, coach him and get him ready in whatever way he needed to make the NBA. They're clearly close in an uncle who's not an uncle kind of way and he also probably takes it personally that he has went on record as having an involvement in Bronny's development, has vouched for him, and now isn't performing.

Arenas saw an opening when JJ took the HC job. MCcants to the curb when James finally retires.

[31to6]

UP:
Watson -- love him already, as I hoped to. So smooth doing lots of things out there, including grabbing boards and immediately heading up-court with a live dribble. A couple of nice passes tonight, looked good hitting some 3s, and I particularly liked his last bucket -- a one or two dribble pull-up baseline J from 17 or so -- all net.

House -- awesome energy and competitiveness. At his size I'm not expecting him to make the league, but he was everything I always wanted Tremont Waters to be out there tonight (including: a little bigger)

Ramsey -- I've criticized him for being selfish, and tonight he had two or three particularly good passes, plus made big plays defensively. Kept scoring. Props!

Cooks -- this guy was solid and had the biggest dunk of the night

STEADY --
Killie -- looks like he can be a consistently good G league player. Showed more mobility tonight than he has before, but not an NBA-level body or athlete

Davison -- a nice drive-and-kick to Watson for the game's first bucket, and a couple nice finishes in transition in the second quarter. Playing time throttled down tonight in favor of giving House a look, which seemed entirely fair.

Harper Jr -- this guy continues to look fine -- hopefully finds a home/steady check in the G-league

Scheierman -- his defense continues to look better, which may be a result of not facing Jaime Jaquez -- but again, props to him. Shot was off but he hit a key 3 and got a few late FTs to go. Feeling good about him overall.

Enurana -- he got to play! Looked fine. Face it everyone: he's just a random UDFA who is not likely to matter after this week.

DOWN --
Walsh -- this is the first game where I'm going to criticize him for his offense. What're you doing, bro? A couple of nifty moves where layups fell off the rim -- bad luck -- but several possessions where you think "the game is accelerating for him". Fine defensively and that's my main concern, but time to acknowledge that he's a wreck offensively right now.

Charlotte -- come on now, can't beat the SL Celtics without Queta, Springer, and even Drew Peterson? When they spot you a 10 point 3rd quarter lead?

Ownage. Good game. On to the next!

I would add a couple of things about our top 3 SL players.

Watson: the 3 looked smooth. That was a big plus. He does all the little things. He is not a consistent rim protector so ai don’t think he can play the 5. I still have concerns about his motor as at time he seems disinterested or lost.

Baylor: I like his chemistry with Watson. His all around playmaking is nice and he battles for rebounds. One huge concern I have is that when he drives he bounces off people like he weighs 150 lbs. He is much weaker than he looks. The refs bailed him out a little last night but at next level he could be in trouble if he doesn’t get stronger.

Walsh: Disruptive on defense but his inability to finish at the room and really poor decision making on offense was disappointing. I hope we see the second year leap in training camp.

Watson -- There were a few moments that had me surprisingly questioning Watson's motor in SL game 1, but haven't seen any moments since. I think he's not quick out there, but if he's not where he wants to be it doesn't seem based on lack of effort.

BS -- I agree about Scheierman getting bounced around. What I look forward to is him spotting up and letting it fly when open, or making the right play/right pass. That feels just about guaranteed to go well on the real Celtics roster, IMO.

Walsh -- I'm not expecting a second year leap from him. I think he'll gradually develop into a player over 3-4 years, as perhaps/hopefully JD has. Still a good developmental scratch ticket, with those crazy-long arms and Rodman-esque body.

[cloverleaf]

I'm not sure if Joe goes quite that deep but you might be right. I mean, I could see him playing 11 or 12 guys but maybe just not all in the same game (if it's a close game).

Agreed that Watson could find himself getting some minutes.

I listed 10 guys in my post..but if we have to deeper than that, the next guys who appear ready to contribute are Queta and Watson so that makes 12 (not counting KP)..That should be plenty of of bodies, and able to keep fresh legs in there, and rest different guys on different nights..

RIght. I certainly don't mean all in one game, unless it's garbage time in a blowout, of course.

AL sits back to backs. XMan has had knee issues each year. Luke has been steady but his limitations causes matchup issues against certain teams so he can't be an everyday player. Neems is unknown because of the lack of playing time in the bigs. This is where Grant showed his value. He played alot and played big at 6'6". He did what Sully did for the C's. He gave the coaches confidence. At 6'8" Watson could be what Jackson Davis is for the Warriors.

Feet to the fire this year.

Everyone seems to want him to play center, but I think that's really asking a lot of a guy at his size as a rookie. The C's do well when they are a pretty big team at most of their positions, and I see him more as a guy looking for minutes behind JT at the 4 or JB at the 3. I think he could be a good pairing with Sammy Buckets at the wing spots off the bench. He's a versatile defender, so I think he could switch on and off a good number of centers situationally, and yes, as you suggest, play some small-ball 5, but I'd rather have him leveraging his ability to roam out to the perimeter more. He's not really so much a squat tank like Sully and Grant were.

[BK_2020]

This team had NO injury set backs during the season. They managed KP to the point that if he did get nicked, you didn't realize it because he was being managed all season.

Our top 6 played 408 games in the regular season, which is certainly higher than the injury-hit teams like the Sixers (300ish), Cavs (350ish), but not as healthy as the Bucks (441), the Thunder (460 counting Cason Wallace as 6th), Nuggets (450), or the Pacers whose big injury was to Haliburton who still played 69 games, just 1 fewer than Jaylen Brown. Most top seeds were healthier than us. Other than the Cavs, I don't think there was a single top 4 seed whose top 6 guys played fewer games than our top 6.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a matter of health/injury rather than load management. Outside of KP (who you could say is guaranteed to miss time due to an injury)the only injury I remember was Jrue's dead arm. Other than that I don't think anybody missed more than one game in a row due to an injury. I think White missed early because of a birth and the end of the season guys were benched. The staff managed this team exceptional all year and they pretty much missed the injury bug except for Jrue.

Was there a point during the regular season where you thought "wow this injury could derail this season"? The staff prepared the team the whole season to play without KP. He played they won, he missed time they won. When he came back they never skipped a beat.

I'm interested to see how they prepare for life without KP until 25'. They have shown they can win without him.

Our top 6 missed significantly more games than 6 of 7 other top seeds. Does it matter if they miss games due to injury or for other reasons? Either way they are not playing. My point more directly is the Celtics dominated despite their top 6 missing a good amount of games and that's because the bench was excellent and Joe unlike some coaches did not rely on running the starters ragged.

[BK_2020]

Read on Twitter

It's hysterical that Arenas actually put the nepo baby and JB together in that analogy.

This is the same Gilbert Arenas who's mentioned several times how Lebron asked him to look after Bronny, coach him and get him ready in whatever way he needed to make the NBA. They're clearly close in an uncle who's not an uncle kind of way and he also probably takes it personally that he has went on record as having an involvement in Bronny's development, has vouched for him, and now isn't performing.

He's not wrong, though. Jaylen Brown of all people shouldn't be out there saying struggling rookies aren't NBA players.

[darrendaye]

Heard on one podcast that suggested Davison might be finished in SL. If true, hoping Peterson is back out there as I want to see more symmetry with Scheierman playing off one another. IMO it's been a bit your turn/my turn and I sensed I might have seen a little on-court friction at times too.

Mentioned previously want to see Enaruna involved in the offense.

[He_Got_Game]

Heard on one podcast that suggested Davison might be finished in SL. If true, hoping Peterson is back out there as I want to see more symmetry with Scheierman playing off one another. IMO it's been a bit your turn/my turn and I sensed I might have seen a little on-court friction at times too.

Mentioned previously want to see Enaruna involved in the offense.

Admittedly I am underwhelmed by Peterson. He makes too many mistakes and doesn't have a natural feel for the game. Feel for the game is something that you cannot teach. I just don't see it with him.

[shackles10]

It's hysterical that Arenas actually put the nepo baby and JB together in that analogy.

This is the same Gilbert Arenas who's mentioned several times how Lebron asked him to look after Bronny, coach him and get him ready in whatever way he needed to make the NBA. They're clearly close in an uncle who's not an uncle kind of way and he also probably takes it personally that he has went on record as having an involvement in Bronny's development, has vouched for him, and now isn't performing.

He's not wrong, though. Jaylen Brown of all people shouldn't be out there saying struggling rookies aren't NBA players.

It's apples and oranges for me though. Many lotto picks have struggled shooting percentage wise (as JB did) and still put up good numbers in SL (as JB did) and didn't turn into busts (as JB hasn't). I can't think of many late 2nd rounders who've been given the ball and as many shots as Bronny who struggled percentage wise and with raw numbers, so did neither thing, and still turned into solid pros (can't call them a bust that late in the draft imo). The guys in the JB category did something previously to earn their high draft status. Most teams would say Bronny hadn't even earned a draft status at all, and would be justified to this point.

I still maintain this is 99% Gil having Lebron's back and has nothing to do with JB. Except he was caught on camera questioning Bronny so now Arenas has to defend Lebron and Bronny by trying to compare the two players... which is crazy imo.

[cl2117]

Should have drafted filipowski. scheirman looks super slow . I think Zvi was good off the bench

I'm happy with Scheierman but I think you could be right about Filipowski. I had him and Baylor roughly equal in terms of draft value, flip a coin type situation, but Filipowski felt like he fit a much bigger need.

KP has never been the picture of health and is out until January already, it would make sense to me to get the poor man's version in Filipowski as a developmental option plus injury insurance. Brad obviously thinks he can get that with our current guys, and there's some solid talent there so he might be able to, but Filipowski just seems like such a natural fit behind KP given his archetype (at least offensively).

Scheierman is still a good get though. His defense has looked better every game and even though the shot isn't falling, he does appear to have a really good feel for the game so should eventually provide you more than just three point shooting.

Watson could end up better than them both anyway. It's all a crapshoot.

[redslastlaugh]

Should have drafted filipowski. scheirman looks super slow . I think Zvi was good off the bench

I'm happy with Scheierman but I think you could be right about Filipowski. I had him and Baylor roughly equal in terms of draft value, flip a coin type situation, but Filipowski felt like he fit a much bigger need.

I like Scheierman but the two guys I’ve heard really intriguing SL reports on have been Furphy and Mogbo so those are the two “what if’s” for me, more so than Flip, even acknowledging the positional need/fit as you mentioned.

But… we shall see … Baylor has shown some stuff, I’m not out on him

[Hal14]

Should have drafted filipowski. scheirman looks super slow . I think Zvi was good off the bench

I'm happy with Scheierman but I think you could be right about Filipowski. I had him and Baylor roughly equal in terms of draft value, flip a coin type situation, but Filipowski felt like he fit a much bigger need.

KP has never been the picture of health and is out until January already, it would make sense to me to get the poor man's version in Filipowski as a developmental option plus injury insurance. Brad obviously thinks he can get that with our current guys, and there's some solid talent there so he might be able to, but Filipowski just seems like such a natural fit behind KP given his archetype (at least offensively).

Scheierman is still a good get though. His defense has looked better every game and even though the shot isn't falling, he does appear to have a really good feel for the game so should eventually provide you more than just three point shooting.

Watson could end up better than them both anyway. It's all a crapshoot.

It's somewhat of a crap shoot.

But just for fun, here's 3 big boards by folks on Draft Twitter:
https://mavsdraft.com/2024-nba-draft-big-board/

https://upsideswings.com/stones-24-big-board

https://chuckingdarts.substack.com/p/2024-nba-draft-dart-board-understanding?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

If you average out the rankings from these 3 big boards, here are the average rankings for each of the 3 guys you mention:

Filipowski: 25.0
Scheierman: 31.0
Watson: 31.6

Very close..

And those guys probably weren't factoring in the "intel" on Filipowski that caused to fall into the 2nd round (played poorly in pre-draft workouts, didn't interview well with teams, some concerns about his girlfriend who is like 6 yrs older than him, who he started dating when he was only like 17)..If you factor that stuff in to those rankings, then all 3 players are basically even..

[sam_I_am]

This is the same Gilbert Arenas who's mentioned several times how Lebron asked him to look after Bronny, coach him and get him ready in whatever way he needed to make the NBA. They're clearly close in an uncle who's not an uncle kind of way and he also probably takes it personally that he has went on record as having an involvement in Bronny's development, has vouched for him, and now isn't performing.

He's not wrong, though. Jaylen Brown of all people shouldn't be out there saying struggling rookies aren't NBA players.

It's apples and oranges for me though. Many lotto picks have struggled shooting percentage wise (as JB did) and still put up good numbers in SL (as JB did) and didn't turn into busts (as JB hasn't). I can't think of many late 2nd rounders who've been given the ball and as many shots as Bronny who struggled percentage wise and with raw numbers, so did neither thing, and still turned into solid pros (can't call them a bust that late in the draft imo). The guys in the JB category did something previously to earn their high draft status. Most teams would say Bronny hadn't even earned a draft status at all, and would be justified to this point.

I still maintain this is 99% Gil having Lebron's back and has nothing to do with JB. Except he was caught on camera questioning Bronny so now Arenas has to defend Lebron and Bronny by trying to compare the two players... which is crazy imo.

I remember those JB games and thinking we drafted a stud. Does anybody think Bronny looks like a stud? Stats may be similar but eye test is quite different.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't care about Scheierman. He'll do fine in the D-league and there are no minutes for him in the major leagues. Thinking that he could replace Hauser is more than wishful.

The stories of this year's Summer league are a) on the positive side, Watson, and b) on the negative side, Walsh. I realize Walsh is young, but he looks to be 2 years away from being two years away. I'd take Begarin over him in a heartbeat.

[shackles10]

I remember those JB games and thinking we drafted a stud. Does anybody think Bronny looks like a stud? Stats may be similar but eye test is quite different.

Very true, but are they even that similar? We’re completely dismissing Bronny’s earlier 2 summer league games before Vegas which were just as poor and comparing his next set of 3 to JB’s first 3? Why? Because JB said what everyone, including many talking heads have thought and said? JB got to the line a ton in his first 3 games and had twice as many ppg because of it (17 ft attempts in his first game alone). After those first 3 though JB also went on to score 20, 25 (which is about as many as Bronny has put up in 5 total games) and 21. So 3 game sample size matters for the first 3, but not the second 3?

I was past the point of Lebron annoyance, partly because the Lakers have been a little irrelevant recently, and was appreciating him as a player but this Bronny stuff has me annoyed with him too all over again. He has all of his friends (former players and media included) defending Bronny so he doesn’t have to.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Win this one for Bob Newhart...

[phincsfan]

Even though the SL sample size is tiny, one player who would fit so well with the C's right now is Tristan Da Silva. I liked his game in college, didn't mind that he was old and IMO would have been worth trading up for. He's going to help the Magic this season for sure.

[Fierce1]

Even though the SL sample size is tiny, one player who would fit so well with the C's right now is Tristan Da Silva. I liked his game in college, didn't mind that he was old and IMO would have been worth trading up for. He's going to help the Magic this season for sure.

No doubt he's good, but he's not going to thrive on the Celtics.

He will get limited minutes, just like Nesmith with the Cs.

[shackles10]

Even though the SL sample size is tiny, one player who would fit so well with the C's right now is Tristan Da Silva. I liked his game in college, didn't mind that he was old and IMO would have been worth trading up for. He's going to help the Magic this season for sure.

No doubt he's good, but he's not going to thrive on the Celtics.

He will get limited minutes, just like Nesmith with the Cs.

True. We need 1) shooters (different than scorers as we all know), 2) versatile defenders, and 3) ball movers/connectors. You need to be able to check off 2 or more of those boxes to fit around the Jays and just in general be a guy Brad and Joe are interested in playing a lot of minutes. Jrue and White are perfect because they can do all 3 at a high level. Throw Al in that category as a big man too. KP came in successfully as a shooter, more versatile than given credit for, and not the connector others are but also not a guy who's going to hang onto the ball and dribble the air out of it going iso either. Hauser fits because he does 2 fairly well and same with Pritchard. Oshae struggled to get minutes because he only does 1 at a high level, and Svi struggled even more because he only has the reputation to do 1 of them at a high level and even struggled with that shot often due to inconsistent minutes.

If Baylor Swift can be respectable defensively, we already know he can shoot (despite what SL is showing us) and is good on #3 as well so he can eat some regular season minutes. If not, then Twonster could have an opening as a rookie to eat some of those Brissett minutes.