Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[15th overall]

Lets put it this way. I don't dislike DJ so much that I would refuse to take him with multiple picks, or some other asset or benefit in addition to the 25th pick in this year's draft.

But without that? No! Stop trying to talk yourselves into it already. The guy pretty much sucks and is rather overpaid.

Whats your alternative? KG and Pierce are gone, they are not coming back.

Make a stance and dont just accept whatever garbage the Clips are trying to lowball you with. Theyve gotta appease CP3 so hold their feet to the fire a bit as free agency looms closer.

If it falls apart we lose out on an overpaid center with a sub .500 FT% and a crap pick in a crap draft. Oh well, thats not exactly gonna set the franchise back decades or anything.

[SuperDeluxe]

The salary dump is overrated, Boston still has to take back Butler's 8 mil, it sounds good if your dumping both Lee and Terry but why would you want to pay Butler 8 mil for one instead of Terry 10.5 for two. There really is no need to dump Lee he is only 27 years old. So moving the long term money costs you more money in the short term. Somebody will take on Terry by season's end.

You are going to get more for Butler's expiring 8 million then Terry's non-expiring 5.5 Million per. Butler is a better asset moving forward then Terry. 10 times out of ten.

Also, all of Butler's $8 million would be gone before the critical 2014 offseason.

[irie]

If this deal goes down as is currently reported Danny has truly screwed up. If the trade goes through, we will have gone from a team that would have had a decent shot in the east with some minor tweaks, to a team that is neither terrible nor good enough to win anything.

If the trade doesn't go through, even in the best case scenario that Doc doesn't ditch out, I see KG as already being gone, and PP isn't even a consideration now. So where does that leave us? Honestly I don't know, can someone please explain KG's contract IF he retires.

Will he be on our books for the next two years?? If so how in the hell could Danny let this happen, why in the hell would he not just have committed to this team from the get go for one more year, win or lose, let the team play out and then had plenty of cap space next year plus some hopefully more tradeable contracts in JET, Lee, Bass etc etc.

I feel like this is the late 90's early 00's all over again, and we're gonna look back to this point in history and say why oh why did we give up so much for so little?

I feel like we are going to look back at this like the Twan trade... the first move of many that led to #17.

I agree with that. If this trade happens, I don't think that would be the core that is trying to win the next championship. It's not so black and white as some posters seem so convinced of here.

[tombattor]

I'm hoping for a big year from Sully as well... but I don't know why you are assuming there won't be more moves. I really doubt PP, Bass, Terry and probably Lee are on this team next year... and chances are some big men will be coming back in some of those trades. Maybe even a more established one then Sully such as Smith or Milsap. I could see Sully being the first big off the bench playing both PF and Center. Smith, Jordan and Sully could each get 32 minutes a game...

You maybe right. Rondo, jsmoov, and green is a good core of a team all entering their primes. If we can move the dead weight and collect some extra picks, we'll be in decent position for the next phase.

[humblebum]

How does Jordan complement Green and Rondo? Teams are going to pack the hell out of the paint and in close games teams can just foul Rondo and Jordan with impunity.

Does everyone agree that if the Celtics can only get one pick that they'd prefer a future pick? One pick in this craptastic draft is plenty.

Seems like Ainge is possibly going to have to cave on this deal and just accept Jordan and a pick. I don't think Jordan will improve his game or value in Boston. You can't post him up because Rondo's man will be sitting on his lap and everyone already knows he can dunk on fast breaks and rebound/block shots.

Defensively Boston gets an athletic rim defender who can rebound. So Sullinger's weaknesses as far as athleticism and shot blocking are addressed and he isn't going to have to face a lot of 7' on the offensive end. His rebounding allows you to play Green at the 4 and not get killed on the glass.

Jordan can run the floor and finish giving Rondo an alleyoop guy on the break and in the half court. Also allows Rondo and Green the ability to but the ball on the glass and have a guy crashing the offensive boards. If Rondo can't exploit a team doubling a guy like Jordan than we are screwed anyhow. The key is that Jordan is good enough offensively to finish when he is wide open so people can't double Rondo, Green, Sullinger and whoever find to play SG and score for this team.

I agree the FT shooting kind of sucks but that is Rondo's problem most big men suck at shooting FT's that doesn't make Jordan special.

Rondo can't make teams pay for doubling and Jordan can't be counted on to pass effectively out of doubles. Spacing is going to be a major issue unless AB-Green-Sully really show out shooting the ball from deep (possible, but not too likely). Jordan is a threat around the basket but teams WILL foul him and that hurts you when the rest of your offense is mediocre at best.

Defensively you are right, Jordan is a good fit and a pretty solid player. The issue is that if you can't score consistently or generate quality opportunities you don't get to set your defense.

Ultimately that group has some upside if guys develop or play above their heads, but there are a ton of ifs. Could easily see that group struggling to score 90 points most nights.

[GreenMachine]

Why do you assume that will be the team? There will be more moves!!!

[AKFO]

The salary dump is overrated, Boston still has to take back Butler's 8 mil, it sounds good if your dumping both Lee and Terry but why would you want to pay Butler 8 mil for one instead of Terry 10.5 for two. There really is no need to dump Lee he is only 27 years old. So moving the long term money costs you more money in the short term. Somebody will take on Terry by season's end.

If your Ainge you want Jordan and two 1sts. The catch is if you take #25 then you can't get '14 unless you make the deal after the draft. As good as the '14 draft is the chances that the Clippers come off the rails by '15 is way better.

Although I agree regarding the salary dump an expiring is more of an attractive asset for a different team, especially at the deadline. I feel it gives us more flexibility.

That said I would definitely prefer 2 picks + Jordan over 1 pick + Jordan + a salary dump.
There is always a chance that Lee, Terry and Bass regain some value by the deadline.
Lee especially shouldnt be too hard to move.

Id prefer a pick this year and a 2015 pick with limited protection. They will be good next year but I can see them falling off after that.

If I can get them to take Terry and not have to take Butler sign me up but I don't want to take on additional 3 mil in salary for this season so I don't have to pay Terry 5.4 mil next season at that point just waive his ass and pay him 2.5 for the next 4 years.

Terry's salary would be paid over 5 years. Years left X two years + 1 year. 2 x 2 + 1

[underneathtoDJ]

I agree with 15th overall.

You don't accept this deal as currently constituted. If you can't get Bledsoe or an unprotected future 1st, wait it out and call their bluff. If they want to risk losing CP3 because of an extra 1st round pick, fine by me. Let him go to Houston or Dallas and watch the Clippers go back to mediocrity. There really is no reason for Danny to accept this deal right now.

[KGboss]

Why do you assume that will be the team? There will be more moves!!!

Absolutely. Thats the real truth.

[Frank Lucas]

The only person I trust at this point when it comes to his reporting is SAS. SAS said that Danny Ainge holds all the cards here and that Danny want Blake Griffin and he said that if he can't get Blake he will settle for nothing less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick. Ainge still has Doc, KG and Pierce under contract. He Doc want to go into broadcasting that is fine and if KG want to retire that is ok too but Danny Ainge is not going to make a bad deal. So this is really a high stake game of poker and Danny believes he holds all the cards. The Clippers are the team that has to do something to get Chris Paul to sign back with them.

So again according to SAS he said that Danny Ainge will not settle for anything less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick IF he can not get Blake Griffin.

[canman1971]

I am in the group that tells the Clippers to go to hell with their offer if it doesn't include at least 2 picks. Who really cares if it falls through, as 15th said. Oh no? What shall we do.

[Queequeg]

If this trade goes through as is the team will average about 70 points a game next season.

It does now. LOL!

You make an excellent point

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

If it falls apart we lose out on an overpaid center with a sub .500 FT% and a crap pick in a crap draft. Oh well, thats not exactly gonna set the franchise back decades or anything.

Yup. It's amazing to think that so many people think this is the absolute best we can do for KG and Doc. To put things into perspective - the Clippers called the Cavs about trading for Anderson Varajeao before he went down for knee surgery. The Clips were offering DJ, but the Cavs insisted that they add Eric Bledsoe to the mix.

Think about that for a second - yes, Sideshow Bob might be alot younger than KG. However, we're throwing Doc Rivers into this package, and the probability that Paul Pierce follows them is right around 99.99999999999%. If the Cavs insisted on getting DJ/Bledsoe for Sideshow Bob, then why the hell do we think it's a great deal to accept DJ and 2 picks for KG/Pierce/Doc?

[GreenMachine]

The only person I trust at this point when it comes to his reporting is SAS. SAS said that Danny Ainge holds all the cards here and that Danny want Blake Griffin and he said that if he can't get Blake he will settle for nothing less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick. Ainge still has Doc, KG and Pierce under contract. He Doc want to go into broadcasting that is fine and if KG want to retire that is ok too but Danny Ainge is not going to make a bad deal. So this is really a high stake game of poker and Danny believes he holds all the cards. The Clippers are the team that has to do something to get Chris Paul to sign back with them.

So again according to SAS he said that Danny Ainge will not settle for anything less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick IF he can not get Blake Griffin.

If DA get's Blake...

[Gant]

Mark Heisler

Correction: Lee/Terry isn't #Clipper-#Celtic hangup, says @Adrian Wojnarowski. My peeps say it's LAC posturing. W/6 guys signed, Clips need bodies

[GreenMachine]

The only person I trust at this point when it comes to his reporting is SAS. SAS said that Danny Ainge holds all the cards here and that Danny want Blake Griffin and he said that if he can't get Blake he will settle for nothing less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick. Ainge still has Doc, KG and Pierce under contract. He Doc want to go into broadcasting that is fine and if KG want to retire that is ok too but Danny Ainge is not going to make a bad deal. So this is really a high stake game of poker and Danny believes he holds all the cards. The Clippers are the team that has to do something to get Chris Paul to sign back with them.

So again according to SAS he said that Danny Ainge will not settle for anything less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick IF he can not get Blake Griffin.

If DA get's Blake...

I think it would be hilarious if LA pulled back from taking Terry and giving us the 2nd pick and DA said "OK fine, I am done negotiating... here are your two options... put Bledsoe back in the deal or give me Blake." and then hung up.

However I really doubt it. PP/KG and Paul without Blake is a lateral move for the Clips and Paul knows it. Unless it somehow frees up money for Howard (maybe a 3rd team where PP get's bought out?) there would be no point for LAC.

[Frank Lucas]

Danny has the Clippers by the balls right now because the Clippers want Doc Rivers and they want KG, they know that Paul Pierce would be a lock too. So Danny is not going to make a bad deal here. He want Blake Griffin and if he can not get Blake he wants Jordan and Bledsoe. That talk of the Clippers wanting to hold on to Bledsoe because they don't know that Chris Paul is going to do is foolish because they know with Doc Rivers on board as coach Chris Paul is 100% sure to be a Clipper next season.

Lee/Terry isn't the holdup the holdup is the Clippers trying to keep Bledsoe but they know they are going to have to give him up to Boston.

[ThirtyFour]

If this deal goes down as is currently reported Danny has truly screwed up. If the trade goes through, we will have gone from a team that would have had a decent shot in the east with some minor tweaks, to a team that is neither terrible nor good enough to win anything.

If the trade doesn't go through, even in the best case scenario that Doc doesn't ditch out, I see KG as already being gone, and PP isn't even a consideration now. So where does that leave us? Honestly I don't know, can someone please explain KG's contract IF he retires.

Will he be on our books for the next two years?? If so how in the hell could Danny let this happen, why in the hell would he not just have committed to this team from the get go for one more year, win or lose, let the team play out and then had plenty of cap space next year plus some hopefully more tradeable contracts in JET, Lee, Bass etc etc.

I feel like this is the late 90's early 00's all over again, and we're gonna look back to this point in history and say why oh why did we give up so much for so little?

I feel like we are going to look back at this like the Twan trade... the first move of many that led to #17.

I agree with that. If this trade happens, I don't think that would be the core that is trying to win the next
championship. It's not so black and white as some posters seem so convinced of here.

Edit: screwed that up royally.


I hope we will look back at it like the twain trade, I think that is a great possibility and I completely understand that this process will take time, I'm just saying and wondering, which I still haven't seen an answer to, what will happen if KG retires with us if this deal falls apart. Will we be stuck with the remainder of his two years against our cap, and if so, won't that tie our hands to really get anything done?

[Frank Lucas]

The only person I trust at this point when it comes to his reporting is SAS. SAS said that Danny Ainge holds all the cards here and that Danny want Blake Griffin and he said that if he can't get Blake he will settle for nothing less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick. Ainge still has Doc, KG and Pierce under contract. He Doc want to go into broadcasting that is fine and if KG want to retire that is ok too but Danny Ainge is not going to make a bad deal. So this is really a high stake game of poker and Danny believes he holds all the cards. The Clippers are the team that has to do something to get Chris Paul to sign back with them.

So again according to SAS he said that Danny Ainge will not settle for anything less than Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st round pick IF he can not get Blake Griffin.

If DA get's Blake...

I think it would be hilarious if LA pulled back from taking Terry and giving us the 2nd pick and DA said "OK fine, I am done negotiating... here are your two options... put Bledsoe back in the deal or give me Blake." and then hung up.

However I really doubt it. PP/KG and Paul without Blake is a lateral move for the Clips and Paul knows it. Unless it somehow frees up money for Howard (maybe a 3rd team where PP get's bought out?) there would be no point for LAC.

Man you do realized that this would actually free up money for the Clips to go after Lebron James next off-season. Chris Paul and Lebron are best friends. Lebron is Chris Paul Jr godfather. So the Clippers aren't looking at Dwight because Sterling would never trade with the Lakers.

[ConnorHenry]

Danny has the Clippers by the balls right now because the Clippers want Doc Rivers and they want KG, they know that Paul Pierce would be a lock too. So Danny is not going to make a bad deal here. He want Blake Griffin and if he can not get Blake he wants Jordan and Bledsoe. That talk of the Clippers wanting to hold on to Bledsoe because they don't know that Chris Paul is going to do is foolish because they know with Doc Rivers on board as coach Chris Paul is 100% sure to be a Clipper next season.

Lee/Terry isn't the holdup the holdup is the Clippers trying to keep Bledsoe but they know they are going to have to give him up to Boston.

Wow, you really think so? I think the Clippers have more leverage. If they don't get Doc, they have several good fall back coaching candidates. Sure, they'd like KG, but I don't think that LA feels they'd collapse without him. Their only sense of urgency is if they think this is the only way to keep CP3 but they already have an inside track on keeping their own FA anyway.

Meanwhile Boston is backed into a corner with Doc. He's done with them -- either get something or he'll just go into broadcasting. KG won't accept a trade nearly anywhere and would he retire if Doc and PP go?

I think the best Ainge can do is Jordan and the two picks, which aren't high picks. And don't be surprised if he settles for Jordan and 1 pick because he'll figure that's better than nothing.