Why Marcus Smart should start at SG

[FakeScreenName123]

Pretty much. Aaron McKie was the technical PG for those good Sixers teams

what does that mean?

those good Sixers teams

as opposed to what? are you implying that Aaron Mckie's ability to call a play and set an offense was the causation or majority causation of a "good" team versus a 'bad" team? If so. I have a counter argument rdy that talent will always supersede positional roles:



^Nice hat, btw. Good taste. Must be a good guy, imho.

[lon3lytoaster]

Pretty much. Aaron McKie was the technical PG for those good Sixers teams

what does that mean?

those good Sixers teams

as opposed to what? are you implying that Aaron Mckie's ability to call a play and set an offense was the causation or majority causation of a "good" team versus a 'bad" team? If so. I have a counter argument rdy that talent will always supersede positional roles:



^Nice hat, btw. Good taste. Must be a good guy, imho.

Uhm? Good. As in they went to the finals and at least managed to beat the Lakers once. That's what that means. As opposed to the lottery team Sixers of the mid-2000's teams that still centered around Iverson. I'm not making mention of anything regarding to Aaron McKie's talent level, just that he so happened to be the acting PG on those (yes, GOOD) Sixer teams.

[ryaningf]

Tubby Smith played Rondo off the ball for a good portion of his sophomore season. Marcus Smart was the only real playmaker on his team (Brown wasn't much more advanced than AB as a ball-handler/creator, Forte was just a shooter, and Nash was useless on the perimeter) - their apg doesn't reflect the gap between them as passers at the same age. Not crucial to your point, but worth noting.

Smart played off the ball a ton in college. I went back and watched a bunch of his games after we drafted him and I was kinda shocked how much he played off the ball.

Smart only played off the ball when Nash was isoing (a lot), or when the play call was to get him a shot.

So you're saying he was always the PG except the times when he wasn't the PG? That's what they call a hot take.

[ryaningf]

?

Yer answer is not as important as the question mark. it's the question mark that does cos the answer implies: It doesn't matter.

The question doesn't matter, but yet in the context of explaining why Smart looks neutered playing PG right now it's kinda pertinent information. Smart's too concentrated doing the things normally associated with the PG position that he's not being aggressive enough looking for his shot, and the distraction is causing his shooting percentage to plummet. As Stevens remarked:

“I thought he did a good job,” Stevens said. “I think he can still get a lot better, and I think that’s one of his areas that we really need to focus on with him. Evan (Turner) has slowed down in his ability to communicate early what we need to do, and Marcus needs to slow down a little bit. He needs to play with a pace to get the ball where it needs to, but his calls and reads need to happen a little earlier.

“That’s just part of getting used to it. Rondo has played the point for the so long that that comes easy to him. Phil Pressey’s been a point his whole life. It comes pretty naturally to him. Marcus is adjusting to that, as is Evan. It’s great for those two guys to have the ball this much in the preseason, regardless of how much they play it during the regular season.”

[soxfan2003]

Perhaps Smart's three best assets on offense are
1) Just from watching him play, I believe he will eventually have a low turnover game by NBA starting PG standards. This is very underrated. He appears to have very strong hands that not only helps him steal the ball but should also help him protect the basketball a bit better then the typical PG.
2) Sees the floor very well.
3) strength.

I don't think he projects as a low turnover guy. Au contraire, he's a risk taker whose aggressiveness and somewhat loose handle led to a lot of turnovers when he attacked off the dribble. I think one of the biggest reasons his TOV% dropped in his sophomore campaign was because he started opting for more pull-up 3s when clear driving lanes weren't available. But in the pros, I think he's going to have to embrace risk-taking to be an effective player - more turnovers, but more FTAs too.

I also think one of his biggest offensive strengths is his body control in traffic - this is one area where I think the Wade comparisons are justified. He's got great agility and balance to go with his power. He needs to attack the basket. Playing like a traditional PG is just not the best way to maximize his skillset.

And you may be the one unaware that Rondo didn't average that many more assists in college then Smart.... As a sophomore Rondo averaged 4.9 assists and Smart 4.8 assists.

Tubby Smith played Rondo off the ball for a good portion of his sophomore season. Marcus Smart was the only real playmaker on his team (Brown wasn't much more advanced than AB as a ball-handler/creator, Forte was just a shooter, and Nash was useless on the perimeter) - their apg doesn't reflect the gap between them as passers at the same age. Not crucial to your point, but worth noting.

If Smart wants to be an 18-20 PPG scorer ASAP, I agree with you that he will have to take risks and turnovers could be the result from the overly aggressive style of play that it would take for him to score a lot on offense. But I believe Smart in 3-4 years with proper development would be at his best as a 16-17 PPG PG that doesn't take that many risks. Different body types but perhaps think Mike Conley in terms of offensive aggressiveness. Think 17/7 PG that plays tremendous defense and doesn't turn the ball over much. It will be hard for him to reach that 17 PPG mark in efficient manner without improving his perimeter shot. Smart trying to penetrate too much or shoot too much in the midrange to setup his penetrations, I think will be a relative failure on offense.

Smart still played off ball in college enough for his assist stats to be pretty impressive. Smart is a damn good passer by PG standards but he just isn't going to be the penetrator like a Rubio, Rondo, Wall etc. My position on that is it is perfectly fine as long as the player protects the ball by not turning it over too much and the player can keep the defense honest by being a perimeter threat on open shots.

Where Smart needs work and will have trouble is finishing on some of his drives... I think the solution to that is just being more strategic on when to drive and accepting the notion that you won't be a big time scorer. I just don't see Smart with elite scoring ability so I don't want him to force things too much.

It's up to Ainge to get an elite scorer on the team... I haven't seen anyone that is serious project Smart as an elite scorer.

[Slartibartfast]

Smart played off the ball a ton in college. I went back and watched a bunch of his games after we drafted him and I was kinda shocked how much he played off the ball.

Smart only played off the ball when Nash was isoing (a lot), or when the play call was to get him a shot.

So you're saying he was always the PG except the times when he wasn't the PG? That's what they call a hot take.

You don't cease to be a PG when someone else has the ball. Rondo doesn't cease to be a PG when he spots up or posts up.

I'm not arguing that Smart can't be used at SG. I'm just saying he wasn't one at OK St. He was the lead guard when he was on the floor and no one else was really close. Nash absorbed a lot of scoring usage 15 feet and in, but Smart was responsible for the vast majority of shot-creation/decision making on the perimeter.

The point being that his assist totals don't mean much in comparison with Rondo's because he played a much more prominent playmaking role than did Rondo in college.

[Slartibartfast]

Perhaps Smart's three best assets on offense are
1) Just from watching him play, I believe he will eventually have a low turnover game by NBA starting PG standards. This is very underrated. He appears to have very strong hands that not only helps him steal the ball but should also help him protect the basketball a bit better then the typical PG.
2) Sees the floor very well.
3) strength.

I don't think he projects as a low turnover guy. Au contraire, he's a risk taker whose aggressiveness and somewhat loose handle led to a lot of turnovers when he attacked off the dribble. I think one of the biggest reasons his TOV% dropped in his sophomore campaign was because he started opting for more pull-up 3s when clear driving lanes weren't available. But in the pros, I think he's going to have to embrace risk-taking to be an effective player - more turnovers, but more FTAs too.

I also think one of his biggest offensive strengths is his body control in traffic - this is one area where I think the Wade comparisons are justified. He's got great agility and balance to go with his power. He needs to attack the basket. Playing like a traditional PG is just not the best way to maximize his skillset.

And you may be the one unaware that Rondo didn't average that many more assists in college then Smart.... As a sophomore Rondo averaged 4.9 assists and Smart 4.8 assists.

Tubby Smith played Rondo off the ball for a good portion of his sophomore season. Marcus Smart was the only real playmaker on his team (Brown wasn't much more advanced than AB as a ball-handler/creator, Forte was just a shooter, and Nash was useless on the perimeter) - their apg doesn't reflect the gap between them as passers at the same age. Not crucial to your point, but worth noting.

If Smart wants to be an 18-20 PPG scorer ASAP, I agree with you that he will have to take risks and turnovers could be the result from the overly aggressive style of play that it would take for him to score a lot on offense. But I believe Smart in 3-4 years with proper development would be at his best as a 16-17 PPG PG that doesn't take that many risks. Different body types but perhaps think Mike Conley in terms of offensive aggressiveness. Think 17/7 PG that plays tremendous defense and doesn't turn the ball over much. It will be hard for him to reach that 17 PPG mark in efficient manner without improving his perimeter shot. Smart trying to penetrate too much or shoot too much in the midrange to setup his penetrations, I think will be a relative failure on offense.

Smart still played off ball in college enough for his assist stats to be pretty impressive. Smart is a damn good passer by PG standards but he just isn't going to be the penetrator like a Rubio, Rondo, Wall etc. My position on that is it is perfectly fine as long as the player protects the ball by not turning it over too much and the player can keep the defense honest by being a perimeter threat on open shots.

Where Smart needs work and will have trouble is finishing on some of his drives... I think the solution to that is just being more strategic on when to drive and accepting the notion that you won't be a big time scorer. I just don't see Smart with elite scoring ability so I don't want him to force things too much.

It's up to Ainge to get an elite scorer on the team... I haven't seen anyone that is serious project Smart as an elite scorer.

The elite aspect to Smart's offensive game is drawing fouls and finishing at the rim. That's how he was able to score 18 on 55TS% despite being a massive bricklayer from deep (and 42% overall). He's a wrecking ball, a slasher, a brute in the paint. He's a good but not great passer and a very weak jump shooter.

I don't want him minimizing turnovers by hanging out on the perimeter and playing like old Jason Kidd. I want him emulating Russ Westbrook, Tyreke Evans, D-Wade, John Wall and D. Rose. The PPG doesn't have to be 18+, but he's an attack guard - seems counter productive to put a collar on him and try to turn him into a floor general.

If he's not a threat as a slasher, we can try to convert him into an old Kidd, Andre Miller type, but I want to see if his A game translates before sending him back to school to learn a new approach.

[DarkAzcura]

I have no issue with them trying to reign in Smart a little bit so he can develop more PG instincts, but eventually (if not really soon, heh), I'd like to see him become an attack guard like Slart said. That's his strength.

[ryaningf]

Smart only played off the ball when Nash was isoing (a lot), or when the play call was to get him a shot.

So you're saying he was always the PG except the times when he wasn't the PG? That's what they call a hot take.

You don't cease to be a PG when someone else has the ball. Rondo doesn't cease to be a PG when he spots up or posts up.

I'm not arguing that Smart can't be used at SG. I'm just saying he wasn't one at OK St. He was the lead guard when he was on the floor and no one else was really close. Nash absorbed a lot of scoring usage 15 feet and in, but Smart was responsible for the vast majority of shot-creation/decision making on the perimeter.

The point being that his assist totals don't mean much in comparison with Rondo's because he played a much more prominent playmaking role than did Rondo in college.

He did have a more prominent playmaking role than Rondo did in college, but I'd hesitate to say he played PG. Of course, it depends on what you consider playing PG. I don't consider bringing the ball up the court and jacking 3s as playing PG. I do consider bringing the ball up and initiating offense to be playing PG and from my recollection Smart did a lot of the former and little of the latter. He's completely reversed form in his limited time in Boston and it's why he's not scoring.

IMO, Smart's usage was consistent with what you'd normally call a point forward. He got lots of opportunity to make plays with the ball on the perimeter, but the mundane PG things were handled by lesser talents. He also did a lot of posting up, curls off screens, and a bunch of other off-the-ball things that necessarily require somebody else passing you the ball or initiating the play. He swung between 1-4 depending on matchups.

"Lead" guard is just a confusing term that's better left coming out of the mouths of idiots on ESPN. Kobe Bryant is a lead guard just as much as Deron Williams is and while there are a lots of dissimilarities between those two the one thing they have in common is that neither of them is a pure PG.

Of course there's a continuum between PG and SG and while the great guards can inhabit both extremes most are like Smart and exist somewhere in between. To insist he was the PG in college or that he'll be one in Boston just doesn't do justice to who he's been or who he is...

[ryaningf]

The elite aspect to Smart's offensive game is drawing fouls and finishing at the rim. That's how he was able to score 18 on 55TS% despite being a massive bricklayer from deep (and 42% overall). He's a wrecking ball, a slasher, a brute in the paint. He's a good but not great passer and a very weak jump shooter.

I don't want him minimizing turnovers by hanging out on the perimeter and playing like old Jason Kidd. I want him emulating Russ Westbrook, Tyreke Evans, D-Wade, John Wall and D. Rose. The PPG doesn't have to be 18+, but he's an attack guard - seems counter productive to put a collar on him and try to turn him into a floor general.

If he's not a threat as a slasher, we can try to convert him into an old Kidd, Andre Miller type, but I want to see if his A game translates before sending him back to school to learn a new approach.

Yup. Attack guard is the operative term. No more old Jason Kidd on the perimeter playing mistake free. The world doesn't need a right handed version of Erick Strickland, we want to see the guy in college who lived in the paint and got to the rim with his dribble.

[humblebum]

Yet he's being groomed early on to play PG, has been called a PG by Ainge and he's likely going to be Rondo's backup at that position. Smart has all the tools mentally and in terms of his skill set to play the point on both ends.

There is nothing which states that a PG or "lead guard" shouldn't also shoulder a scoring burden or look for their shot or try to carry the offense by scoring the ball.

Smart can function off the ball but it's not playing to his strengths to become a spot up shooter or a guy who runs off a ton of screens trying to free up his shooting hand. Playing in the post, coming off curls, these are things you do as an offense to get a guy a favorable matchup or get the ball to him in an attack zone. These are not things that speak to him being better suited to playing off the ball, they speak to his versatility.

What is wrong with simply saying that Smart is a Point Guard who'll be used in a variety of ways? Clearly Smart exhibits all the signs of being a PG with elite potential. There is nothing wrong with playing two PG's together. But I don't think there is any question about who Smart is. He's a dominant athlete who had played out of position most of his life and who's been making that transition to the position he's best suited for.

That's why playing him behind Rondo and having him learn on the job at that position is huge. He needs as many reps as possible there and when Rondo comes back he can split time (if he earns it) between lead and off guard.

[ryaningf]

Humble, guys like Pierce or Kobe or Wade need the ball in their hands to be successful but asking them to shoulder PG duties just isn't the best use of their abilities. They can do it, but should they? The "should" part is where this discussion is focused. If playing the point renders Smart a version of old Jason Kidd, is that really playing to his strengths?

Playing off the ball doesn't mean he won't get P&R opportunities. All it means is he won't waste his time with mundane PG things. Playing off the ball, having your teammates set you up on occasion for easy shots, those are the things that help a shooter shoot the ball better. FWIW, Smart shot something like 45% on open catch-and-shot situations in college, something that suggests his shooting troubles were a function of him handling the ball too much and taking too many questionable shots.

Rondo's out and Smart's getting an extended look at PG and I'm cool with that, it's the best use of a bad situation. He needs those reps one way or the other and that's what the preseason is for. But I don't think doing so is playing to his strengths, it's more like it's helping to shore up his weaknesses. Playing to his strengths would entail putting him in a position to attack the rim, not asking him to set guys up for jump shot opportunities.

[soxfan2003]

I don't want him minimizing turnovers by hanging out on the perimeter and playing like old Jason Kidd. I want him emulating Russ Westbrook, Tyreke Evans, D-Wade, John Wall and D. Rose. The PPG doesn't have to be 18+, but he's an attack guard - seems counter productive to put a collar on him and try to turn him into a floor general.

If he's not a threat as a slasher, we can try to convert him into an old Kidd, Andre Miller type, but I want to see if his A game translates before sending him back to school to learn a new approach.

I certainly want Smart to be a threat as a slasher since scoring near the hoop and getting to the line are very important but just not go overboard where it ends up leading to too many turnovers since he is taking bad chances and teams start overplaying him.

If he is scoring 16/17 PPG in a few years and a little over half of his points are from slashing/free throws and a big percentage from wide open 3's, I think that is ideal for a player with his overall talent level on offense.

Ideally I do want Smart to have some of the strengths of old Kidd or Fisher since knocking down open 3's is important. I'd much rather have Smart work on that then try to develop into a player that can hit midrange 2's with a hand in his face.

[soxfan2003]

I would love Smart to add his slashing ability to old man Kidd's offensive game...if you combine old Kidd's 3 point offense/competent play making with Smart's good to very good slashing potential and Smart's tremendous defense..... you literally have IMHO a top 10 NBA player.

The big problem with Smart is chances are he won't shoot like old man Kidd from 3 anytime soon. And that is going to cut tremendously into his value and even more so if he is stuck playing SG for half of his minutes with Rondo as the PG.

But there is no problem having a PG run an offense like old man Kidd! Kidd won his only championship as an older player playing off the ball a bit more but still being the PG.

Kobe/Wade/Pierce are such gifted scorers that asking them to play PG would be suboptimal. These players all have very good go to scoring ability... Smart based upon what I've seen in college doesn't project to have comparable ability. Smart simply doesn't have their ability on the offensive end so asking him to play to his position of strength(PG) clearly makes sense. It is one of the reasons that literally all of the draft pundits have labelled him an NBA PG.

I damn well hope I am wrong and Smart is a gifted 20-25 PPG scorer but I certainly think Smart has all-star potential but more as a PG that is 17-7 but gets all-star recognition because of his tremendous defense.

But I maintain for Smart to even reach that 17 PPG in efficient fashion, he has to work hard on his game and learn to hit wide open shots especially from the NBA 3 point line.

[BfB]

?

Yer answer is not as important as the question mark. it's the question mark that does cos the answer implies: It doesn't matter.

The question doesn't matter, but yet in the context of explaining why Smart looks neutered playing PG right now it's kinda pertinent information. Smart's too concentrated doing the things normally associated with the PG position that he's not being aggressive enough looking for his shot, and the distraction is causing his shooting percentage to plummet. As Stevens remarked:

“I thought he did a good job,” Stevens said. “I think he can still get a lot better, and I think that’s one of his areas that we really need to focus on with him. Evan (Turner) has slowed down in his ability to communicate early what we need to do, and Marcus needs to slow down a little bit. He needs to play with a pace to get the ball where it needs to, but his calls and reads need to happen a little earlier.

“That’s just part of getting used to it. Rondo has played the point for the so long that that comes easy to him. Phil Pressey’s been a point his whole life. It comes pretty naturally to him. Marcus is adjusting to that, as is Evan. It’s great for those two guys to have the ball this much in the preseason, regardless of how much they play it during the regular season.”

Everyone is over analyzing this. The simple matter of fact is Smart's first step isn't that great, so his low center of gravity and handle will be easier to utilize when going against a taller opponent.

The rest is all legit, but the simplest answer...

[GuyClinch]

I'm not arguing that Smart can't be used at SG. I'm just saying he wasn't one at OK St. He was the lead guard when he was on the floor and no one else was really close. Nash absorbed a lot of scoring usage 15 feet and in, but Smart was responsible for the vast majority of shot-creation/decision making on the perimeter.

This. Smart can be used as an off-guard but its sub-optimal. He is a leader and a PG. That's how they used him on team USA - that's how Stevens is using him now. That's what he was drafted to do.

You could play Kidd at off-guard. it wasn't a great idea. It's going to come down to Smart vs. Rondo down the line. It's really that simple.

[No-Man]

Smart-Bradley is actually a pretty good backcourt on both ends if you add a franchise player in the frontcourt and some shooters across the board.

[KJandHondo35]

It's only preseason but, Smart has been producing assists at a HIGH rate considering his USG % so far. This kid is the real deal. Absolutely elite defender, has shown great court awareness, + rebounder for the position, and I think even this year will be at least an average offensive (points) player. I think he's the PG of the future but, he's such a high impact player as long as he's on the court, regardless of position, it's a good thing.

[sam_I_am]

I'm not arguing that Smart can't be used at SG. I'm just saying he wasn't one at OK St. He was the lead guard when he was on the floor and no one else was really close. Nash absorbed a lot of scoring usage 15 feet and in, but Smart was responsible for the vast majority of shot-creation/decision making on the perimeter.

This. Smart can be used as an off-guard but its sub-optimal. He is a leader and a PG. That's how they used him on team USA - that's how Stevens is using him now. That's what he was drafted to do.

You could play Kidd at off-guard. it wasn't a great idea. It's going to come down to Smart vs. Rondo down the line. It's really that simple.

Down the line means end of rookie deal and restricted free agency, unless Boston fails to resign Rondo this year. Until Marcus gets his second contract he is a great player for his current salary even now as a guy who only takes jump shots and only hits 25% of them. If he becomes an all star and elite scorer 2 months from now you can resign Rondo at 16 mill per and still have both for the same price as Green+Wallace. That is the real value of nailing a lottery pick or drafting an NBA ready guy like Smart.

[humblebum]

Why don't we actually wait to see Rondo and Smarr play together first before we start talking about deciding which one to keep?

Smart is a PG. It's readily evident in his play and his demeanor. But again, who's to say you can't play two PG's together?