The (Quadruple) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 4.0)

[Celts17Pride]

Noel is restricted. This offseason, some team will offer him a max contract which is something like 4 years at 21m per or more. And the sixers would not match if they had any sense. So, its the sixers so who knows if they have sense or not.

What I do know, a year or 2 later it will be considered a terrible franchise killing contract and that team will wish they could trade him.

So the Celtics trade for Noel now and give up assets and in 36 games Ainge has to decide pay Noel the max or let him leave.

Ainge is smarter than that. That's why you hear the Vucevic rumors because he is cost control for 3 year at about $12 million

[chrisab123]

Yes, I'll gladly tell Smart to take a hike for George Hill. You wouldn't?

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

[Darth Celtic]

Noel is restricted. This offseason, some team will offer him a max contract which is something like 4 years at 21m per or more. And the sixers would not match if they had any sense. So, its the sixers so who knows if they have sense or not.

Beyond that Noel is not signing any deal that ends with him backing up Embiid for four years. Even if Philly was crazy enough to want to max him out, it's not all up to them. He can pull a Greg Monroe if he feels like it.

They pretty much have to trade Noel now.

I think it is true, you don't know how restricted free agents work. No matter what deal he signs, the Sixers can match it. If the sixers want to pay him max money to be a backup center, they can and there is nothing in the world that can stop it besides retiring.

[165bows]

Get a hold of yourselves, men.

RealGM Celtics trade thread motto 2014-???

I hope we get an actual rumor soon. These media/poster driven speculation discussions are just getting worse and worse.

I feel like I haven't seen a rumor in months that would actually benefit our team in the long run.

Keep. The. Picks.

Yeah they are just waiting for some team to break down and give them treasure for some total trash.

Like the Rondo trade lol.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

It's scary how blissfully unaware you are of players not on the Celtics and what the current market pays for very good players. Evan freaking Turner just got 17M a year, and George Hill is a much better basketball player than him across the board.

[31to6]

So, once this trade deadline passes, can we *finally* start playing Mickey more, since people won't be able to ask for him in deals?

#throwbackSaturday

[Captain_Caveman]

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

After he turns 31yo, no less.

[Darth Celtic]

Just because some other team makes a huge mistake and triples Evan Turner's value on a contract doesn't mean we should too. Remember, we had every chance to match that contract. It was so far over his value we didn't even try to low ball him. We just said "you should sign that deal with the Blazers, and don't wait".

The cap goes up, and teams are dumb. You overpay for a big (need) like Horford who is worth probably 12-15m a year because of the market. You don't spend it on evan turn or george hill.

[Andrew McCeltic]

It's useful to know Vucevic's price in case he has appeal to the Knicks or Cavs in part of a Melo to Cleveland deal. We could get/flip him, say, to New York to play alongside Porzingis (who can better unicorn for him than Ibaka did), with other expirings to the Knicks, Melo/Noah to Cleveland, and Love to Boston. Then you've fixed our rebounding and scoring problems, Zizic and whoever (Noel?) and BKN picks are getting us very close to a long-term contender.

[Murta]

Noel can be a defensive superstar and palatable on offense. If anybody can max out his potential, it's Brad Stevens. The real question with him is whether his injury issues are a thing of the past, i.e. if he is likely to play 65+ games every year of that 4 year contract?

At some point we just have to go all in or back out completely in 2018/2019. Although, ownership certainly finds it appropriate to have flexible winning teams with youngsters coming in. Money is high right now and will be for a considerable time for Wyc & co.

[jirrit]

So, once this trade deadline passes, can we *finally* start playing Mickey more, since people won't be able to ask for him in deals?

#throwbackSaturday

I was a believer
#shame

[SmartWentCrazy]

Just because some other team makes a huge mistake and triples Evan Turner's value on a contract doesn't mean we should too. Remember, we had every chance to match that contract. It was so far over his value we didn't even try to low ball him. We just said "you should sign that deal with the Blazers, and don't wait".

The cap goes up, and teams are dumb. You overpay for a big (need) like Horford who is worth probably 12-15m a year because of the market. You don't spend it on evan turn or george hill.

The problem is, that unless we use our max cap space next season, we're gunna lose it. IT is going to get 30mm+, AB is going to ask for 30mm, Marcus Smart is going to ask for 15-20mm, Kelly Olynyk is going to ask for 12-18mm...

We're gunna be capped out going forward after next offseason. Paying George Hill market rate and resigning our own guys is more palatable to me than only resigning our own guys and being capped out. You don't spend it because he's worth it, you spend it because it's your last chance to add a very good player for free for the foreseeable future. We're going to be capped out regardless for the next three years, no sense in letting the asset expire because you're too proud to offer a market rate deal for George Hill at 3 years/$20mm.

If this were an asset we could roll forward, absolutely agree with you-- would much rather spend it on someone else. But, unless we blow it up, the window is only open for this offseason alone. And then, no more FA with the current core.

[chrisab123]

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

It's scary how blissfully unaware you are of players not on the Celtics and what the current market pays for very good players. Evan freaking Turner just got 17M a year, and George Hill is a much better basketball player than him across the board.

No I'm aware. Just because you give Evan Turner 17 million DOES NOT MEAN it's okay to pay George Hill 20+ million. Let someone else get fired for that mistake.

[chrisab123]

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

After he turns 31yo, no less.

If we are going to make stupid signings might as well offer Noel the max. At least he fills the role of rim protector and is young. Hill is a good player I agree there but you're going to go close to maxing out a 30+ year old point guard especially when your whole roster is either guards or undersized bigs.

[SmartWentCrazy]

It's scary that you would pay George freaking Hill 20 million:

It's scary how blissfully unaware you are of players not on the Celtics and what the current market pays for very good players. Evan freaking Turner just got 17M a year, and George Hill is a much better basketball player than him across the board.

No I'm aware. Just because you give Evan Turner 17 million DOES NOT MEAN it's okay to pay George Hill 20+ million. Let someone else get fired for that mistake.

Then what would you prefer to do? Add no one? Sacrifice the ability to add anyone good by trading for Vucevic now?

This original topic came up when I listed 5-10 players that I felt were worth holding onto cap space for over trading for Vucevic. You can strike Hill, or anyone else really, but max cap space as an asset will help us out more long term than 36 games of Vucevic this year. Worse case scenario, you can trade for him in the offseason after you strike out on anyone worth it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

F*ck dudes, this was our summer to keep max cap space and add a second max free agent. Doesn't look like that's going to happen. So if we want to keep the space for trade flexibility, fine. But we don't want or need Milsapp, or Ibaka, Blake is re-upping in LA, we have an off chance at Hayward, but getting him means renouncing Olynyk, renouncing Amir/Jerebko/Zeller, who we could use, instead, as salary matching. We're looking at a wing or a guard with the BKN pick, unless Harry Giles blows up in the next month, or Jonathan Isaac, who's a 3/4. So we do all that to add Hayward and we're still weak up front. And the only way to get better is trading Crowder, Bradley, and/or IT. Who make a combined 20 million. So if you want Vucevic a year from now, you're trading one of them.

I think we're better off extending Olynyk and Smart, trading some of our expirings for players, adding Noel, and keeping one or two of our expirings for another year. Means more trade flexibility.

Passing up a chance to add affordable talent to the roster this trade season only makes sense if Ainge thinks he'll be in great position at the draft to deal, to absorb Cousins or Butler outright. I get that, it's a judgment call. But I think it's a mistake, and the safer bet is to add talent now.

Vucevic fits our ethos, he's a young, pretty good, improving player on a great contract - just like Crowder and Bradley. The idea we could get him for expirings and Jackson/Yabusele (which an *Orlando* writer suggested) is a f*cking steal, even with his flaws, and it's because of what a mess the Magic are. It'd be a lot like us getting IT, and a similar caliber of player, who can be a contributor on a winning team (though maybe not a true contender) and a trade chip. We add him, we win a few more games, win a lot of games more easily, everybody goes 'Whoa Vucevic, what a guy, we really underestimated him'.

We still have 17 million in cap room if we want it, less if we trade Jerebko and/or Zeller or extend Olynyk. But that could get you Noel, or some other sleeper free agent. Or it absorbs most of Butler, Wall, Cousins.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Something surprising would have to happen for the max cap space to become viable for us again. Don't know what it would be. Isn't likely. The Clippers do a tear-down, something, IDK.

If we can't peel Kevin Love away from the crazy Melo talks, Vucevic is a great get.

[chrisab123]

It's scary how blissfully unaware you are of players not on the Celtics and what the current market pays for very good players. Evan freaking Turner just got 17M a year, and George Hill is a much better basketball player than him across the board.

No I'm aware. Just because you give Evan Turner 17 million DOES NOT MEAN it's okay to pay George Hill 20+ million. Let someone else get fired for that mistake.

Then what would you prefer to do? Add no one? Sacrifice the ability to add anyone good by trading for Vucevic now?

This original topic came up when I listed 5-10 players that I felt were worth holding onto cap space for over trading for Vucevic. You can strike Hill, or anyone else really, but max cap space as an asset will help us out more long term than 36 games of Vucevic this year. Worse case scenario, you can trade for him in the offseason after you strike out on anyone worth it.

Vucevic isn't a good defender we know that. But he does rebound which helps. Millsap Gallo Hayward those three are all solid options. I didn't have an issue with most of your ideas just Hill. The issue is the Celtics lack size they need bigs that can help this year and beyond. Vuc has an excellent contract that would allow this team to still add a guy like Gallo if needed. Assuming they don't match any offer to KO. Or they could just trade Vuc at the draft. Either way this team needs to figure it out quick otherwise they'll be in a situation next year where Bradley and IT both get 20+ a year. That's not a good way to build a winner.

[Smog]

Noel is restricted. This offseason, some team will offer him a max contract which is something like 4 years at 21m per or more. And the sixers would not match if they had any sense. So, its the sixers so who knows if they have sense or not.

Beyond that Noel is not signing any deal that ends with him backing up Embiid for four years. Even if Philly was crazy enough to want to max him out, it's not all up to them. He can pull a Greg Monroe if he feels like it.

They pretty much have to trade Noel now.

I think it is true, you don't know how restricted free agents work. No matter what deal he signs, the Sixers can match it. If the sixers want to pay him max money to be a backup center, they can and there is nothing in the world that can stop it besides retiring.

Sorry, but it's you who doesn't understand how RFA works.

If Noel wants to leave, all he has to do is not sign an offer sheet. He plays out the year at his fifth-year tender and leaves the following year when he reaches unrestricted free agency. Just like Greg Monroe, the example cited, did in Detroit.

If Philly wants to keep him for a year, they can, but they can't force him to sign a long-term deal.

[reload141]

I wonder with the new CBA details if Ainge has checked on FA's agents to see if they are still considering moving and if not he will make his move this deadline