Victory Cigar!!! BOS 110 @ DAL 102 (16-2)

[GoGreen]

Surprised jaylen hasnt gotten a vote. Kid was great tonight once again. He is well on his way to becoming a force in this league.

[Captain_Caveman]

Oh man, between Rondo and the Tank vs Not banter a few years back, epic.

Ah, they should have tanked. That was pretty clear.

Rondo was much more of a mixed bag.

I don't know, the number of threads about Rondo were pretty numerous and bloody, at least the Tanking got relegated to one thread eventually.

I can stand on my take there:
viewtopic.php?p=22571918#p22571918

[GoGreen]

Pretty awesome how he used his length to contest but not foul Barnes' shot at the end of regulation, huh? Or stripped the ball out so Jaylen could recover it with 36 seconds left? Oh wait that was other guys.

It's a team game. One of our best defenders and one of the most amazing hustle guys I've ever seen is taking a **** wrecking ball to our offense for large swaths of the game (up until WINNING TIME), which is impacting said games. No reason to get all twisted up about people calling it what it is.

People cried about him all night, and yet he was a net positive and one of their better players.

Deal.

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

[Captain_Caveman]

People cried about him all night, and yet he was a net positive and one of their better players.

Deal.

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

If the season ended today, he is probably the DPOY.

Anyone care to refute that?

OK THEN!

[claycarver]

Nah, going all soft-love-supportive is probably a good move by Stevens. Especially in the absence of Prince Hayward, we really need Marcus or Terry to shoot a decent percentage. There's no plan B because Larkin, amazingly, is even worse.

I'm liking the imagery of squishy cuddly Brad rubbing Smart's tummy. But I don't think Brad has Smart in there with a green light because he's trying to support a particular player.

Brad plays Smart because he wants to win and Smart wins games.

[Shak_Celts]

People cried about him all night, and yet he was a net positive and one of their better players.

Deal.

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

The entire bench was 4 for 22.

While the starting backcourt was chipping in with 69 points.

1-7 is bad for the bench, no doubt. but don't add smarts on there because he is our "6th starter" and he was 3-15 alone. one thing is for sure, smart had a chance to find his rhythm but the other guys took too few shots to find theirs, only 1 of them not named smart took more than 1 shot (roze 1-4).

[ThirtyFour]

Wokest of them all...

Read on Twitter

That's what those hypercritical of Smart don't understand. There is the box score, there is looking beyond the box score, and then there's Smart. His plays are often sneaky investments, the benefits of which you reap for multiple possessions in ways that are subtle. These plays often have galvanizing effects which go unseen by many fans, but are intimately felt by his teammates.

Once more fans realize that possessions aren't isolated events played in a vacuum, they'll learn to appreciate Smart more. Brad Stevens already knows this, and you all know Brad is a future-HOF coach. If you can't put your trust in Smart, at least put it in Brad.

I understand it up until a point and then I don't, I'll be honest, maybe I'm just dumb, but I have watched Marcus his entire career as a Celtics. I liked him for a good portion of his career here and there are still parts I do like, but, I just can't help but feel like his terrible offense vs his amazing defense often times cancel each other out. I just don't feel that there is an accurate stat to show what I see when I watch him play, which is basically having to fight uphill more than we should have to due to his poor shooting. It's enough to drive a person insane, and perhaps that's what he has done in my case?? I am for keeping him and paying him basic money, but beyond that, idk.

[31to6]

Who else on the bench do you want to create?

Alrighty, then.

If we've decided we can't be a pace-and-space team with the second unit, because it inevitably ends up in missed Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier 3s (or the occasional TRo drive/miss/fall-down spastic drive), I want Morris off the bench, going all iso. Or do more to feature Tatum, if he's with them. Or stagger Jaylen or Al in there, and feature them. Or get back to Marcus p-n-r with Theis, which has disappeared now that Baynes isn't, unfortunately, starting.

Or keep going with 10 fga per game for a 27% shooter instead but I don't know it doesn't seem to be working that well.

Was supposed to be Hayward.

Falls on Marcus.

If something's not working (and the second unit isn't, and the three PGs shooting 28% certainly isn't) pretty sure it falls to the coaching staff to try something new. Plenty of things to try.

And as part of that Marcus has become good at creating for others when he's in that mode -- can really help keep him viable if the shot never comes around. Keep it moving rather than shooting it some more. Keep pace in the offense. Don't ball-stop. Keep getting in the gym to work on that jumper or get some therapy or a puppy or something. Plenty of ways to improve.

[celticfan42487]

People cried about him all night, and yet he was a net positive and one of their better players.

Deal.

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

I wouldn't say he's polarizing. 90% of the posters can do math and know Smart sucks.

2 posters like him.

[ConstableGeneva]

Not even mad at El Clappo. Everybody has an off game. I think this was his first during this streak. He fought with those guys til final buzzer.

Read on Twitter

[Captain_Caveman]

If we've decided we can't be a pace-and-space team with the second unit, because it inevitably ends up in missed Marcus Smart or Terry Rozier 3s (or the occasional TRo drive/miss/fall-down spastic drive), I want Morris off the bench, going all iso. Or do more to feature Tatum, if he's with them. Or stagger Jaylen or Al in there, and feature them. Or get back to Marcus p-n-r with Theis, which has disappeared now that Baynes isn't, unfortunately, starting.

Or keep going with 10 fga per game for a 27% shooter instead but I don't know it doesn't seem to be working that well.

Was supposed to be Hayward.

Falls on Marcus.

If something's not working (and the second unit isn't, and the three PGs shooting 28% certainly isn't) pretty sure it falls to the coaching staff to try something new. Plenty of things to try.

And as part of that Marcus has become good at creating for others when he's in that mode -- can really help keep him viable if the shot never comes around. Keep it moving rather than shooting it some more. Keep pace in the offense. Don't ball-stop. Keep getting in the gym to work on that jumper or get some therapy or a puppy or something. Plenty of ways to improve.

Like what?

None of Jaylen, Rozier, Baynes, Morris, Tatum, Nader, Ojeleye, Theis or Yabusele has a **** SHRED of ability to run an offense.

Here's your choices with the current roster for bench scoring: Smart or Larkin.

Or just play Kyrie a hundred billion minutes a game.

[CavemanDoctor]

Wokest of them all...

Read on Twitter

That's what those hypercritical of Smart don't understand. There is the box score, there is looking beyond the box score, and then there's Smart. His plays are often sneaky investments, the benefits of which you reap for multiple possessions in ways that are subtle. These plays often have galvanizing effects which go unseen by many fans, but are intimately felt by his teammates.

Once more fans realize that possessions aren't isolated events played in a vacuum, they'll learn to appreciate Smart more. Brad Stevens already knows this, and you all know Brad is a future-HOF coach. If you can't put your trust in Smart, at least put it in Brad.

I understand it up until a point and then I don't, I'll be honest, maybe I'm just dumb, but I have watched Marcus his entire career as a Celtics. I liked him for a good portion of his career here and there are still parts I do like, but, I just can't help but feel like his terrible offense vs his amazing defense often times cancel each other out. I just don't feel that there is an accurate stat to show what I see when I watch him play, which is basically having to fight uphill more than we should have to due to his poor shooting. It's enough to drive a person insane, and perhaps that's what he has done in my case?? I am for keeping him and paying him basic money, but beyond that, idk.

I understand the frustration. Basketball is a game of inches, though. It's too simplistic to look at it and just say "bad offense, good defense." The game is more subtle than that. There's a reason why when he is on the floor, the team overall seems to do better. A game here and there, you can say it's a small sample size. But when it happens time and time again, you have to ask yourself why and maybe admit that your eyes are deceiving you.

It's easy to understand why our eyes can deceive us because offense is inherently a more visible endeavor than defense, especially to more casual fans (no disrespect, speaking generally here). A missed 25-footer catches the eye a lot more than denying the deep position on a guard who is about to post up but doesn't because Smart's tank frame is there in the way. The latter you probably don't even notice because nothing really comes to fruition, but it is invaluable. Take that idea, multiply it by the countless number of times he does little things like that per game, and you understand why Brad "wunderkind" Stevens somehow has faith in him. We all agree Brad knows what he's doing right? Why all of a sudden doubt that's the case here?

With all that said, Smart is obviously not a perfect player, no one is. If he reduced his FGA by about 25%, he'd be even better.

[claycarver]

I just can't help but feel like his terrible offense vs his amazing defense often times cancel each other out.

Did you feel the same about IT? Because I'd understand that. You want to have players that are well rounded.

I think Brad prefers players that are extremes. I'm sure he'd love a Kawhi to work with, but he doesn't seem to need that kind of player. He game plans around individual strengths, and if he has amazing/unique strengths to work with (like Smart), he gets to be creative.

[31to6]

People cried about him all night, and yet he was a net positive and one of their better players.

Deal.

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

Remember that amazing save by Tatum on the baseline when Kyrie overthrew him? Or when Jaylen **** up Barea, took the ball from him, and took off downcourt?

You can be a talented offensive player, and/or athletic and/or long as hell, and do those things too. Whether or not you'll get credit for it seems to vary though.

[Captain_Caveman]

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

I wouldn't say he's polarizing. 90% of the posters can do math and know Smart sucks.

2 posters like him.

More like we win with defense and he is our defensive leader.

No one is calling him a franchise player. This is a litmus test for *basic* basketball knowledge.

[ViperGTS]

Oh and I’ll add my thought. Tatum is clearly the ROY. I am tired of the Simmons Bs. Every article I read has (if they could put it in fine print they would, and they quickly gloss over it) the standard well if he could find a shot. Well, Tatum has shooting at all level. He can post up, finish at the basket and play hellacious defense.

More people need to wake up and see this and maybe they will.

[31to6]

I just can't help but feel like his terrible offense vs his amazing defense often times cancel each other out.

Did you feel the same about IT? Because I'd understand that. You want to have players that are well rounded.

I think Brad prefers players that are extremes. I'm sure he'd love a Kawhi to work with, but he doesn't seem to need that kind of player. He game plans around individual strengths, and if he has amazing/unique strengths to work with (like Smart), he gets to be creative.

You're probably overthinking it? Brad makes the most of what he's got. We've got a lot of well-balanced two-way players this year. I'm sure Brad's pretty happy about that because we're doing awesome, despite the historically awful fg% of our backup guards.

[liveod]

5 votes for Smart. SMDH - the more bricks he shoots the more votes he gets

[fallguy]

I'm glad he made huge plays down the stretch without which we wouldn't win the game.
As I and countless others pointed out, he helped shoot us out of a big lead.
Plenty to deal with on both 'sides' instead of acting like this is one of those clear-cut things, like how Jaylen Brown isn't good at basketball.

It seems only with Marcus where his key plays somehow matter more than other players key plays. I don't get it. He is the most polarizing Celtic in years.

Remember that amazing save by Tatum on the baseline when Kyrie overthrew him? Or when Jaylen **** up Barea, took the ball from him, and took off downcourt?

You can be a talented offensive player, and/or athletic and/or long as hell, and do those things too. Whether or not you'll get credit for it seems to vary though.

I think we're giving Tatum credit for his work as a (rookie) defender. He's ahead of schedule and we've acknowledged that.

I think Brown is better on defense than we typically discuss (metrics are starting to show this out) although more and more people are bringing it up lately.

[31to6]

Oh and I’ll add my thought. Tatum is clearly the ROY. I mad tired of the Simmons Bs. Every article I read has (if they could put it in fine print they would, and they quickly gloss over it) the standard well if he could find a shot. Well, Tatum has shooting at all level. He can post up, finish at the basket and play hellacious defense.

More people need to wake up and see this and maybe they will.

There is no way I am 'waking up and seeing this.'
Simmons is a legit star, not that this is the thread for it we're arguing about Marcus here:)