OT: Lonnie Walker, Updates

[G R E Y]

Happy for Lonnie to be landing in such a great situation, even if the cost is that shockingly low contract. Happy for Cs for the great get for the price.

Treat him well, Cs fans, even when he does those dribbling off his foot and passing out to no one and missing at the rim maddening plays. He's a gem of a guy, first to step up for community work, blends into team culture seamlessly.

Haven't seen him play as much on the Nets but hopefully he's making decisions quicker with the ball now, is more plugged in off ball and makes the right movements (he certainly has the athleticism for it). Just don't expect much consistency on D. The rest of the guys will do a better job of hiding it and compensating for it than any other pro team he's been on.

All that said, the athleticism and scoring punch you're getting for the money is amazing value. I hope he sticks with the Cs and finds a long-term home.

[chakdaddy]

B Robb not expecting Walker to make the team...

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2024/08/mailbag-lonnie-walker-odds-of-making-celtics-roster-bench-rankings.html

What do you think Lonnie’s chances are of making the team? — Nick E

It’s probably not as high as people think and that’s largely a byproduct of the Celtics situation. There are financial incentives not to carry Walker on the roster since he would be costing the team millions more in tax penalties even on a veteran’s minimum deal. There is also the fact that the team could use some roster flexibility when it comes to their big man situation amid Kristaps Porzingis’ recovery. If someone else gets hurt in the preseason/early season, that spot may be needed for some reinforcements.


With all that said, the end of the Celtics bench could use some NBA-proven talent towards the end at the wing and backcourt, particularly if Jordan Walsh and Baylor Scheierman are not ready for primetime yet. If Walker comes in and wins over Joe Mazzulla in training camp as a trusted bench option on nights the team is down bodies (Horford, Porzingis, etc.) maybe he earns a spot right away. It would take quite the performance to do that though in my opinion. I’d peg his odds of making the team around 30 percent.

It's really a problem in the CBA that the player's association should recognize and get fixed next time.

Minimum salaries should be subject to luxury tax penalties. It might cost an NBA vet his job if the 15th spot goes unfilled because of tax.

[Shak_Celts]

Happy for Lonnie to be landing in such a great situation, even if the cost is that shockingly low contract. Happy for Cs for the great get for the price.

Treat him well, Cs fans, even when he does those dribbling off his foot and passing out to no one and missing at the rim maddening plays. He's a gem of a guy, first to step up for community work, blends into team culture seamlessly.

Haven't seen him play as much on the Nets but hopefully he's making decisions quicker with the ball now, is more plugged in off ball and makes the right movements (he certainly has the athleticism for it). Just don't expect much consistency on D. The rest of the guys will do a better job of hiding it and compensating for it than any other pro team he's been.

All that said, the athleticism and scoring punch you're getting for the money is amazing value. I hope he sticks with the Cs and finds a long-term home.

A lot of those same things have been said about Jaylen for years… ECFMVP, FMVP, and Champion Jaylen Brown!

Let’s get it LW!! Joe, help him realize his potential! Brad is Chad! SHOW THEM LONNIE!!

[165bows]

At age 22 Walker averaged >10 ppg in 60 games in NBA and at age 22 Springer was in the G-league despite his supposed defensive ability. Walker has been a 10 ppg scorer every year since. The gap between their accomplishments is wide.

I don’t actually agree with this. Sure Walker has had more minutes and opportunity but imo has been based on his profile/potential. He’s been a deeply negative producer offensively throughout his career so he’s got more minutes and on court record but those don’t really equate to accomplishments, not positive ones anyways.

Maybe for a Chicago level team that wants a play in berth but the measuring stick on this team is can you help sustain elite level performance of the team, on one end or both.

Like I said above, the only box ticked out of four chances for either one of them (if any at all) is Springer’s defense. The other three (Springer on offense, Walker on both ends) are big wide open question marks.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment of Walker. I do recall seeing his talent on display and I think he could be an above average scorer off the bench in a limited role for a 9th or 10th roster spot. That said, the gap has more to do with everything Springer is not. I hope I’m wrong about Springer but I think that barring a huge step forward this off-season, his contract is here to trade.

Yup. Can’t dispute Springers got a lot of offensive holes to fill even though I’m prob riding a high of optimism based on one SL game, and also how they’ve acquired his contract. Watching how they give out deals is very informative imo, I’ve got nothing against Walker but the fact that he’s just a camp deal speaks volumes while they’ve invested pretty heavily in Springer.

But def agree that investment could easily be cashed in if he doesn’t progress.

[165bows]

Happy for Lonnie to be landing in such a great situation, even if the cost is that shockingly low contract. Happy for Cs for the great get for the price.

Treat him well, Cs fans, even when he does those dribbling off his foot and passing out to no one and missing at the rim maddening plays. He's a gem of a guy, first to step up for community work, blends into team culture seamlessly.

Haven't seen him play as much on the Nets but hopefully he's making decisions quicker with the ball now, is more plugged in off ball and makes the right movements (he certainly has the athleticism for it). Just don't expect much consistency on D. The rest of the guys will do a better job of hiding it and compensating for it than any other pro team he's been.

All that said, the athleticism and scoring punch you're getting for the money is amazing value. I hope he sticks with the Cs and finds a long-term home.

A lot of those same things have been said about Jaylen for years… ECFMVP, FMVP, and Champion Jaylen Brown!

Let’s get it LW!! Joe, help him realize his potential! Brad is Chad! SHOW THEM LONNIE!!

Brad is Chad holy **** this is your easily your best work to date I just want to note that I was here when BRAD Is ChAd was born!!

[CelticsWisdom]

I'd like to point out that an Exhibit 10 is still a one year NBA minimum deal, it's just that the Celtics have the option to waive Lonnie right up until the season starts...so he won't be on the roster officially until after training camp; that COULD allow them some time to make other moves, if they want to reshape the back end of the roster with another big, say...

[G R E Y]

Happy for Lonnie to be landing in such a great situation, even if the cost is that shockingly low contract. Happy for Cs for the great get for the price.

Treat him well, Cs fans, even when he does those dribbling off his foot and passing out to no one and missing at the rim maddening plays. He's a gem of a guy, first to step up for community work, blends into team culture seamlessly.

Haven't seen him play as much on the Nets but hopefully he's making decisions quicker with the ball now, is more plugged in off ball and makes the right movements (he certainly has the athleticism for it). Just don't expect much consistency on D. The rest of the guys will do a better job of hiding it and compensating for it than any other pro team he's been.

All that said, the athleticism and scoring punch you're getting for the money is amazing value. I hope he sticks with the Cs and finds a long-term home.

A lot of those same things have been said about Jaylen for years… ECFMVP, FMVP, and Champion Jaylen Brown!

Let’s get it LW!! Joe, help him realize his potential! Brad is Chad! SHOW THEM LONNIE!!

I'm happy for Lonnie and that Cs fans are so excited. Part of that is the value for money. Like if he signed for $20M/yr there wouId understandably be a different reaction. So let's temper expectations. I mean, we can go over similarities, but the list of differenes is longer. JB defends, for instance. Lonnie's first task is to stick on the team which I think he can, should, and will. After that, his role will likely be so specific, one he's good at already - scoring - that his deficiencies will be less of a stress as they'll get covered by the best team he's been on. I'm not saying Lonnie's a finished product nor that this is his last chance to stick in the NBA, but there's extra incentive to make the most of his more limited minutes. Just please remember the warning about the dropping the ball literally and mentally. Lonnie is not JB. I hope continues to impress nevertheless. If he turns out to be Dollarama Jaylen you've still got a steal of a deal of a player. I think he's more than that, but he'll have to squeeze maximum impression through a smaller chance of an opening so it's a challenge. Hope he flourishes and finds a permanent home with the Cs.

[chakdaddy]

B Robb not expecting Walker to make the team...

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2024/08/mailbag-lonnie-walker-odds-of-making-celtics-roster-bench-rankings.html

What do you think Lonnie’s chances are of making the team? — Nick E

It’s probably not as high as people think and that’s largely a byproduct of the Celtics situation. There are financial incentives not to carry Walker on the roster since he would be costing the team millions more in tax penalties even on a veteran’s minimum deal. There is also the fact that the team could use some roster flexibility when it comes to their big man situation amid Kristaps Porzingis’ recovery. If someone else gets hurt in the preseason/early season, that spot may be needed for some reinforcements.


With all that said, the end of the Celtics bench could use some NBA-proven talent towards the end at the wing and backcourt, particularly if Jordan Walsh and Baylor Scheierman are not ready for primetime yet. If Walker comes in and wins over Joe Mazzulla in training camp as a trusted bench option on nights the team is down bodies (Horford, Porzingis, etc.) maybe he earns a spot right away. It would take quite the performance to do that though in my opinion. I’d peg his odds of making the team around 30 percent.

It's really a problem in the CBA that the player's association should recognize and get fixed next time.

Minimum salaries should be subject to luxury tax penalties. It might cost an NBA vet his job if the 15th spot goes unfilled because of tax.

Minimum salaries should *not* be subject to luxury tax penalties. I meant to say

[165bows]

B Robb not expecting Walker to make the team...

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2024/08/mailbag-lonnie-walker-odds-of-making-celtics-roster-bench-rankings.html

What do you think Lonnie’s chances are of making the team? — Nick E

It’s probably not as high as people think and that’s largely a byproduct of the Celtics situation. There are financial incentives not to carry Walker on the roster since he would be costing the team millions more in tax penalties even on a veteran’s minimum deal. There is also the fact that the team could use some roster flexibility when it comes to their big man situation amid Kristaps Porzingis’ recovery. If someone else gets hurt in the preseason/early season, that spot may be needed for some reinforcements.


With all that said, the end of the Celtics bench could use some NBA-proven talent towards the end at the wing and backcourt, particularly if Jordan Walsh and Baylor Scheierman are not ready for primetime yet. If Walker comes in and wins over Joe Mazzulla in training camp as a trusted bench option on nights the team is down bodies (Horford, Porzingis, etc.) maybe he earns a spot right away. It would take quite the performance to do that though in my opinion. I’d peg his odds of making the team around 30 percent.

It's really a problem in the CBA that the player's association should recognize and get fixed next time.

Minimum salaries should be subject to luxury tax penalties. It might cost an NBA vet his job if the 15th spot goes unfilled because of tax.

Minimum salaries should *not* be subject to luxury tax penalties. I meant to say

They are basically subsidized already, so that the min salary increases over time are all normalized to the same as inexperienced guys.

Would be nice to carry that final guy though.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Poor man's Jaylen Brown.

He reminds me of a smaller Jeff Green, in terms of body posture and movements (without the wild DUNKS ALL OVER guys)

Reminds me of a bigger, less talented Kemba. Mostly the way he moves, gets to his spots and gets his shot off.

[165bows]

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Never thought of this before but physically he reminds me of Kris Dunn, how he moves and his body type. Big broad shouldered guy for 6’4”.

[Triple M]

For tax purposes does starting off in the gleague have any impact on luxury tax? Because yes he is a NBA talent I wonder if he starts in the gLeague to get more reps in the Celtics system. Im really surprised he isnt on a team already or is his defense really that bad.

[Hal14]

Disagree on the defense - if springer can just not hurt the offense he becomes a really valuable piece. We know he can sustain elite defense.

Walker frankly hasn’t shown at all in six years he can sustain a high level on either side of the ball outside of some random hot streaks. His career overall offensive production would crush the offense.

At age 22 Walker averaged >10 ppg in 60 games in NBA and at age 22 Springer was in the G-league despite his supposed defensive ability. Walker has been a 10 ppg scorer every year since. The gap between their accomplishments is wide.

Huh?

Springer hasn't even turned 22 yet.

Lonnie has gotten more playing time, simply because he's been on worse teams. Springer has been on a contender during each of his 3 yrs in the league.

Walker is 4 years older and has been on worse teams. That's why it might seem like he's done more in his career. But what has Walker really accomplished? He's bounced around, now on his 4th team. On an exhibit 10 contract, was on a minimum contract last season. His advanced stats don't paint him as a guy who has ever really contributed to winning basketball. He takes a ton of shots, but is an inefficient scorer. Doesn't pass, doesn't rebound, doesn't play D.

It's a nice pickup for an exhibit 10. Let's see how he does in camp..

[Green89]

Disagree on the defense - if springer can just not hurt the offense he becomes a really valuable piece. We know he can sustain elite defense.

Walker frankly hasn’t shown at all in six years he can sustain a high level on either side of the ball outside of some random hot streaks. His career overall offensive production would crush the offense.

At age 22 Walker averaged >10 ppg in 60 games in NBA and at age 22 Springer was in the G-league despite his supposed defensive ability. Walker has been a 10 ppg scorer every year since. The gap between their accomplishments is wide.

Huh?

Springer hasn't even turned 22 yet.

Lonnie has gotten more playing time, simply because he's been on worse teams. Springer has been on a contender during each of his 3 yrs in the league.

Walker is 4 years older and has been on worse teams. That's why it might seem like he's done more in his career. But what has Walker really accomplished? He's bounced around, now on his 4th team. On an exhibit 10 contract, was on a minimum contract last season. His advanced stats don't paint him as a guy who has ever really contributed to winning basketball. He takes a ton of shots, but is an inefficient scorer. Doesn't pass, doesn't rebound, doesn't play D.

It's a nice pickup for an exhibit 10. Let's see how he does in camp..

He helped the Lakers defeat the Warriors in the 2023 conference semis, with 2 big bench performances in 2 of the Laker wins.

[ConstableGeneva]

Not that he's an authority to the inner workings of the Celtics, but ESPN's Tim Bontemps thinks Walker doesn't make the roster and Brad sticks with 14 guys (apart from the two-ways) entering the season.

[Parliament10]

Not that he's an authority to the inner workings of the Celtics, but ESPN's Tim Bontemps thinks Walker doesn't make the roster and Brad sticks with 14 guys (apart from the two-ways) entering the season.

He's nuts. That would make little to No sense.

[celtxman]

Not that he's an authority to the inner workings of the Celtics, but ESPN's Tim Bontemps thinks Walker doesn't make the roster and Brad sticks with 14 guys (apart from the two-ways) entering the season.

So I guess Walker is like Peyton Pritchard when he joined the US Select Team. He's just there to "warm up" Tatum, Brown, etc. and then go home.
The Celtics holding the line at 14 players and keeping Walker are not mutually exclusive. Has anyone seen anything with Walsh that will help the Celtics next season? There are other scenarios.
The landscape has changed with the punitive CBA. Championship or bust is a very real thing. You have a real NBA talent drop into your lap, a player you already had your eyes on and then say "nah" ?
Walker could be terrible and not make the team. It seems like Bontemps is counting on that.

[shackles10]

I quit reading Bontemps because he seems to crap on us any chance he gets. Not saying this is what happened, but wouldn't be the first NBA "insider" to predict something based on what they want to happen. The Celtics choosing not to keep a replacement level vet that fell into their lap in the in the late off-season as part of their title defense is probably something he'd like to see happen. This is the same guy who was the only media vote that wasn't for JT for ECF MVP in '22 (he voted for Jimmy Butler). He then followed it up with voting for Butler over JT for 1st team all-NBA and prompted JT's tweets on media members affecting players next contracts and his beef with that. Very surprisingly he was one of the few who picked us over the Mavs though...

[Hal14]

At age 22 Walker averaged >10 ppg in 60 games in NBA and at age 22 Springer was in the G-league despite his supposed defensive ability. Walker has been a 10 ppg scorer every year since. The gap between their accomplishments is wide.

Huh?

Springer hasn't even turned 22 yet.

Lonnie has gotten more playing time, simply because he's been on worse teams. Springer has been on a contender during each of his 3 yrs in the league.

Walker is 4 years older and has been on worse teams. That's why it might seem like he's done more in his career. But what has Walker really accomplished? He's bounced around, now on his 4th team. On an exhibit 10 contract, was on a minimum contract last season. His advanced stats don't paint him as a guy who has ever really contributed to winning basketball. He takes a ton of shots, but is an inefficient scorer. Doesn't pass, doesn't rebound, doesn't play D.

It's a nice pickup for an exhibit 10. Let's see how he does in camp..

He helped the Lakers defeat the Warriors in the 2023 conference semis, with 2 big bench performances in 2 of the Laker wins.

Yes, I'm aware of that. And I said it was a good pickup for the Celtics to get him on an exhibit 10.

But as a counterpoint, if he was so good for the Lakers, why didn't they bring him back? He was a FA last summer..and all it took to sign him was a minimum contract (which the Nets gave him)..

[ConstableGeneva]

I think if Walker doesn't get a guaranteed offer anywhere (including from the Celtics), he'll be cool joining Maine with an opportunity to be with the big club later on on a pro-rated contract.

I still can't believe he doesn't have a real offer elsewhere (he's good enough to start or be the 6th man for a few teams that don't have higher aspirations). So maybe he really wants to join the Cs program.