Omer Asik Trade - Updated link pg.109

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the Bass, Lee and 1st for Asik rumored deal needs to viewed at in it's entirety to comprehend why it doesn't come up so peachy for Houston.

What would Houston get:

+ SG who is (charitably) ok on defense, poor rebounder; ~$13.5M still owed, including a third year
+ PF who is good in man, not so good in help, poor defensive rebounder, good shotblocker; ~$10M still owed
+ Future 1st RD'er (likely protected)

What would Boston get:

+ C who is Top-3 post defender, top-3 pick-and-roll defender for his position, excellent rebounder and shotblocker; ~$18M still owed
+ Shed ~$5.7M a year early
+ Get ~$3.3M further below apron in 2013-14
+ Shave ~$3.3M off the 2014-15 cap

Anything else I am missing?

My point is, even if my valuations of Bass and Lee differ from the opinions of others, those opinions can't be so divergent that their perceived value can bridge that ~$16.8+M [($23.5M - 18.0M) + 5.7M 2015-16 Cap Hit + 3.3M 2013-14 Cap Savings +3.3M 2014-15 Cap Savings] salary swing in Boston's favor. That flexibility is worth at least an unprotected first if I am Morey.

However, as much as I think it would be a steal of ginormous proportions in the Celtics' favor, I wouldn't include a pick if I was to include Bogans instead of Lee and I would demand a young player for taking on the extra salary.

This deal is really about Boston shedding that third year of Lee. This is why I believe a third team was to be rumored as a facilitator, as I don't think Morey wanted to be saddled with extra year of commitment at mid-level money.

[EJay33]

The only thing you are missing Pogue is that Asik is unhappy, pouting, not playing, and under contract for 2 years. He isn't helping them do anything. To call him in his current state a top 3 defensive player in his position is a little bit misleading. He is a guy who is unlikely to give Houston anything of value and who has publically sabotaged his own trade value. It is similar to saying the Celtics should trade Rondo while he is out with a torn ACL because he leads the league in assists. Sure, he is capable of that, but no one is going to pay full price for him right now due to the injury. In Asik's case, Houston is facing low ball offers due to the nature of the situation. No one will pay full price for him right now and it may be in Houston's best interest to get a guy who can contribute (Bass) and a future pick for a guy with no short or long term value to their team.

[Pogue Mahone]

The only thing you are missing Pogue is that Asik is unhappy, pouting, not playing, and under contract for 2 years. He isn't helping them do anything. To call him in his current state a top 3 defensive player in his position is a little bit misleading. He is a guy who is unlikely to give Houston anything of value and who has publically sabotaged his own trade value. It is similar to saying the Celtics should trade Rondo while he is out with a torn ACL because he leads the league in assists. Sure, he is capable of that, but no one is going to pay full price for him right now due to the injury. In Asik's case, Houston is facing low ball offers due to the nature of the situation. No one will pay full price for him right now and it may be in Houston's best interest to get a guy who can contribute (Bass) and a future pick for a guy with no short or long term value to their team.

Ok, completely dismiss performance. That was the point that I poorly made.

Financially, Houston handcuffs themselves for, at best, two role players and a protected pick? That is self-defeating, regardless of how much of a malcontent Asik may or may not be.

Sometimes the best deal you make is the one you don't make.

[jfs1000d]

I think the Bass, Lee and 1st for Asik rumored deal needs to viewed at in it's entirety to comprehend why it doesn't come up so peachy for Houston.

What would Houston get:

+ SG who is (charitably) ok on defense, poor rebounder; ~$13.5M still owed, including a third year
+ PF who is good in man, not so good in help, poor defensive rebounder, good shotblocker; ~$10M still owed
+ Future 1st RD'er (likely protected)

What would Boston get:

+ C who is Top-3 post defender, top-3 pick-and-roll defender for his position, excellent rebounder and shotblocker; ~$18M still owed
+ Shed ~$5.7M a year early
+ Get ~$3.3M further below apron in 2013-14
+ Shave ~$3.3M off the 2014-15 cap

Anything else I am missing?

My point is, even if my valuations of Bass and Lee differ from the opinions of others, those opinions can't be so divergent that their perceived value can bridge that ~$16.8+M [($23.5M - 18.0M) + 5.7M 2015-16 Cap Hit + 3.3M 2013-14 Cap Savings +3.3M 2014-15 Cap Savings] salary swing in Boston's favor. That flexibility is worth at least an unprotected first if I am .

However, as much as I think it would be a steal of ginormous proportions in the Celtics' favor, I wouldn't include a pick if I was to include Bogans instead of Lee and I would demand a young player for taking on the extra salary.

This deal is really about Boston shedding that third year of Lee. This is why I believe a third team was to be rumored as a facilitator, as I don't think Morey wanted to be saddled with extra year of commitment at mid-level money.

Pougue, you are missing that lee and bass help the rockets and Asik doesn't. You are just looking at numbers and have an asset valuation that ignores practical and market conditions. If Asik was cooperative, he wouldn't he traded in the first place. Right there, his value plummets. Also, how does this affect Houston going forward?

This is a hoops trade. I don't find bass' contract horrible or lee's incredibly awful. Bass is a good player next to Howard. Lee can fit in everywhere with his shooting.

Asik isn't a top 3 defensive center. He is a little used backup. That is what Houston's reality is. Wha he is to the other teams is irrelevant.

Bass can be easily absorbed by Houston. Lee? One year extra? That contract isn't terrible (Wallace is terrible).

Bass and lee are competent nba players. If they fill a need for Houston, it is a good trade .





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[tfmiii]

presumably, unless the tweets were all totally off, it was not bass and lee that were the problem, it was the quality/protection of the pick

if bass and lee contracts are so terrible, how about a counter offer... morey could have humphries instead... but, from what (granted very little) we know there has been no back and forth, no negotiation

It is like Morey held an auction and then refused to accept bids... some have mentioned kabuki theater

as far as being financially handcuffed, well if bargnani can be traded surely bass and lee could be packaged if need be... and wasn't that the wunderkind's point about setting a deadline, he wanted to be able to repackage whoever he got... bass at the deadline is a year and a few months contract, lee is two and a couple months

i'll not lie, i would love to dump lee, but in the right role he can shine, as we have seen this season. He needs a short leash and where better to remain reined in than behind a minute monster like Harden? With the pace the rockets play at a bit more depth cannot be a bad thing. And when you are shooting for the crown, overpaying a couple role players is not the most mortal of sins

[tfmiii]

...and then we reach page 100!

[Pogue Mahone]

Fair points.

I just know that if I am in Morey's shoes, I don't feel I can repackage Lee or Bass at the deadline without sweetener and I definitely wouldn't take the deal as constituted. It would have to be an unprotected 2014 1st.

If I am Boston, I am not shedding Bogans or Humphries without valuable considerations in return because part of my 2014-15 salary structure is dependent on their salaries not rolling over (maybe I would with Bogans if the treat coming back was tasty enough.)

[jfs1000d]

Fair points.

I just know that if I am in Morey's shoes, I don't feel I can repackage Lee or Bass at the deadline without sweetener and I definitely wouldn't take the deal as constituted. It would have to be an unprotected 2014 1st.

If I am Boston, I am not shedding Bogans or Humphries without valuable considerations in return because part of my 2014-15 salary structure is dependent on their salaries not rolling over (maybe I would with Bogans if the treat coming back was tasty enough.)

Why would they repackage them? I think Lee and Bass would be decent role players for Houston. All this trading and roster moves are to affect what goes on on the floor.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Seems a stretch 5/4 like Hawes, who has an expiring contract, an expiring wing defender, and pick is ideal for Morey, but he's not getting that. He's not going to have much financial flexibility after next year when they have to extend Parsons either... Ainge seems to have him boxed in...

[ParticleMan]

yeah but the point is that if they don't want to repackage, then the Dec 20 deadline is meaningless. i'm sure ainge will leave the offer on the table, and morey can take his time to decide what is best or see what transpires.

the only advantage of taking the offer now is to avoid the headache of asik's pouting. but frankly i applaud morey for not bending to that. i mean who the f is omer asik to be acting like some prima donna superstar? seriously, DH did less pouting in orlando and he was murdered on this board and elsewhere for it. at some point you have to stand up to this, and not let the inmates run the asylum.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Fair points.

I just know that if I am in Morey's shoes, I don't feel I can repackage Lee or Bass at the deadline without sweetener and I definitely wouldn't take the deal as constituted. It would have to be an unprotected 2014 1st.

If I am Boston, I am not shedding Bogans or Humphries without valuable considerations in return because part of my 2014-15 salary structure is dependent on their salaries not rolling over (maybe I would with Bogans if the treat coming back was tasty enough.)

If you're Morey, what's you alternative move, if Boston doesn't budge??

[ParticleMan]

I think the Bass, Lee and 1st for Asik rumored deal needs to viewed at in it's entirety to comprehend why it doesn't come up so peachy for Houston.

What would Houston get:

+ SG who is (charitably) ok on defense, poor rebounder; ~$13.5M still owed, including a third year
+ PF who is good in man, not so good in help, poor defensive rebounder, good shotblocker; ~$10M still owed
+ Future 1st RD'er (likely protected)

What would Boston get:

+ C who is Top-3 post defender, top-3 pick-and-roll defender for his position, excellent rebounder and shotblocker; ~$18M still owed
+ Shed ~$5.7M a year early
+ Get ~$3.3M further below apron in 2013-14
+ Shave ~$3.3M off the 2014-15 cap

Anything else I am missing?

My point is, even if my valuations of Bass and Lee differ from the opinions of others, those opinions can't be so divergent that their perceived value can bridge that ~$16.8+M [($23.5M - 18.0M) + 5.7M 2015-16 Cap Hit + 3.3M 2013-14 Cap Savings +3.3M 2014-15 Cap Savings] salary swing in Boston's favor. That flexibility is worth at least an unprotected first if I am Morey.

However, as much as I think it would be a steal of ginormous proportions in the Celtics' favor, I wouldn't include a pick if I was to include Bogans instead of Lee and I would demand a young player for taking on the extra salary.

This deal is really about Boston shedding that third year of Lee. This is why I believe a third team was to be rumored as a facilitator, as I don't think Morey wanted to be saddled with extra year of commitment at mid-level money.

it is definitely not a peachy deal for HOU but honestly, do they really think they will get something better?

i would be surprised if lee's last year is the big holdup. yes i know morey want to not take on additional salary beyond asik's current deal, but why exactly? it's not like they are likely to be lining up big cap space, they are a contending team. plus, can't ainge just throw in $3mil and offset the majority of lee's last year? it's not like lee is worthless, he's overpaid but he is still a solid rotation guy.

plus, frankly i would be fine with bogans+bass+clippers pick. at worst courtney lee becomes an expiring contract in a year. but at this particular moment i'd claim that he's coming close to playing up to his contract. yes he's not getting mins but if we get an injury to he's clearly ready to step into a starting role; marshon brooks surely isn't.

[threrf23]

I wonder if Houston would rather have Crawford than Lee? In any event, I would actually rather see Crawford traded, despite his occasionally awesome play this season. Lee gave us spot minutes @ PG last year, is shooting well, is 28 y/o and if he is working as hard as he is supposedly working, he can develop into a very nice combo guard / role player by the end of the season. My guess is that, future prospects considered, Lee is a bit more undervalued than Crawford is at the moment.

[dgwdum]

Fair points.

I just know that if I am in Morey's shoes, I don't feel I can repackage Lee or Bass at the deadline without sweetener and I definitely wouldn't take the deal as constituted. It would have to be an unprotected 2014 1st.

If I am Boston, I am not shedding Bogans or Humphries without valuable considerations in return because part of my 2014-15 salary structure is dependent on their salaries not rolling over (maybe I would with Bogans if the treat coming back was tasty enough.)

If you're Morey, what's you alternative move, if Boston doesn't budge??

If your morey you dont do anything at all. You keep asik and play him 20 mins off the bench whether he likes it or not. You tell him to showcase himself if he really wants out.

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[spaceballer]

i would be surprised if lee's last year is the big holdup. yes i know morey want to not take on additional salary beyond asik's current deal, but why exactly? it's not like they are likely to be lining up big cap space, they are a contending team. plus, can't ainge just throw in $3mil and offset the majority of lee's last year? it's not like lee is worthless, he's overpaid but he is still a solid rotation guy.

Asik and Lin both come off the books after next season. If Houston decides not to let Parsons test free agency next summer, they can hold him till the following summer. Because of Parsons and Beverley's low cap holds that year, they can use the free cap space from having Asik+Lin off the books (a combined $16.6M cap savings) to offer a near-max contract in free agency to a 3rd star. And then they can use bird rights to go over the cap and retain Parsons and Beverley.

A contract that extends beyond Asik/Lin's contract destroys that scenario. They could potentially have enough cap space for 2 max contracts (Howard, Harden) and 3rd near max contract in free agency ($16.6M), and still pay huge raises to Parsons/Beverley/whoever using bird rights afterwards.

The keys to that scenario are the low capholds/qualifying offers for Parsons/Bev + the free cap space from Asik/Lin. Replace Asik with Lee's longer contract and the Rockets won't be able to go under the salary cap enough to open up free cap space for a near max contract to a free agent.

The $3M cash that Ainge can throw in doesn't help alleviate the cap concerns 2 yrs from now. They've got a rich owner who doesn't care about $3M cash. As a matter of fact, Morey asked for and received permission from the owner to waste money during training camp by overpaying and giving guaranteed money for guys they're almost sure to cut. So I doubt the $3M cash Ainge can throw in matters to them (Houston just spent $7M to renovate their locker room this year). It's not like they have a penny-pinching owner like PHX. They want future cap space.

[Parasite]

How about screw the Rockets? If we want Asik, sign him after his contract runs out next year. We won't be contending for a championship until at least then anyways. I'd rather keep Bass, Lee and the pick at this point and let Morey sweat it out.

[robbie84]

Has the deadline passed or do they still have all Friday until midnight to get it done?

Biggest obstacle is Courtney Lee. Morey doesn't want him on the books that long.
We'd be completely steaming them if they agreed, but we can't give up our own first rounder-it's too valuable down the road for the player or trade for a star options around draft night.
I wonder if Danny would give them a future 2nd rounder, the Clippers pick+Bass+Lee.

[Parliament10]

Has the deadline passed or do they still have all Friday until midnight to get it done?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/i ... -right-now

The league office subsequently informed Houston that it could actually take until Friday of this week to move Asik and still be able to retrade anyone involved in the deal by Feb. 20, but the Rockets elected to end talks for now and try to regroup.

I say that they trade him today, Friday, to the Celtics. Morey is just postering, and Ainge isn't jumping.

[ParticleMan]

i would be surprised if lee's last year is the big holdup. yes i know morey want to not take on additional salary beyond asik's current deal, but why exactly? it's not like they are likely to be lining up big cap space, they are a contending team. plus, can't ainge just throw in $3mil and offset the majority of lee's last year? it's not like lee is worthless, he's overpaid but he is still a solid rotation guy.

Asik and Lin both come off the books after next season. If Houston decides not to let Parsons test free agency next summer, they can hold him till the following summer. Because of Parsons and Beverley's low cap holds that year, they can use the free cap space from having Asik+Lin off the books (a combined $16.6M cap savings) to offer a near-max contract in free agency to a 3rd star. And then they can use bird rights to go over the cap and retain Parsons and Beverley.

A contract that extends beyond Asik/Lin's contract destroys that scenario. They could potentially have enough cap space for 2 max contracts (Howard, Harden) and 3rd near max contract in free agency ($16.6M), and still pay huge raises to Parsons/Beverley/whoever using bird rights afterwards.

The keys to that scenario are the low capholds/qualifying offers for Parsons/Bev + the free cap space from Asik/Lin. Replace Asik with Lee's longer contract and the Rockets won't be able to go under the salary cap enough to open up free cap space for a near max contract to a free agent.

The $3M cash that Ainge can throw in doesn't help alleviate the cap concerns 2 yrs from now. They've got a rich owner who doesn't care about $3M cash. As a matter of fact, Morey asked for and received permission from the owner to waste money during training camp by overpaying and giving guaranteed money for guys they're almost sure to cut. So I doubt the $3M cash Ainge can throw in matters to them (Houston just spent $7M to renovate their locker room this year). It's not like they have a penny-pinching owner like PHX. They want future cap space.

But that doesn't make much sense for a contending team. Houston already has its big-name guys in place in DH and Harden. What they need are good complementary players. You're not going to attract that by only offering 1-year deals this offseason. Maybe Morey thinks they are not going to contend until 2016, and they need one more big-name FA to do it. If so I guess that makes more sense, but it seems like you're throwing away valuable contending years in some misguided attempt to potentially land another big-name FA in 2 years, without even knowing if the right guy will even be available.

But if that's really the holdup, I'm surprised that Ainge doesn't offer Crawford instead of Lee. Yes his D is worse but his offense is better, and he gives you good insurance at the pg spot. At the rate he's playing, Crawford is in line for a bigger payday than Lee has now, and i don't think we can afford that. Yes it leaves us w/o a pg until rondo gets back but lee did a creditable job at pg before, and pressey is improving.

[robbie84]

Has the deadline passed or do they still have all Friday until midnight to get it done?

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/i ... -right-now

The league office subsequently informed Houston that it could actually take until Friday of this week to move Asik and still be able to retrade anyone involved in the deal by Feb. 20, but the Rockets elected to end talks for now and try to regroup.

I say that they trade him today, Friday, to the Celtics. Morey is just postering, and Ainge isn't jumping.

I'm thinking the same thing.
Similar situation with the Clippers trade negotiations wasn't there? like 'Stand off. Talks are dead. Deal is done. NBA says no.' within a 24 hour period.

NBA can't say no this time though.

It is possible that Morey is worried he's getting fleeced. If he wants to contend he's gonna need Bass. It's Lee's deal that he hates. Maybe Danny gives us another 2nd round pick or something.