Official BKN-DAL-MIN pick watch Thread 2015-16 season

ConstableGeneva · Post #1481 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:07 am

165bows wrote:Nice night all around!

Dallas in a 4-7 stretch.

Except for the Pelicans losing. I wonder when they'll finally get their footing and string some wins. Or if they even want to.

celtxman · Post #1482 » by **celtxman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:16 am

Feeling a lot better than yesterday. I'm not really worried about the Pelicans - they will get better

Post #1483 » by **165bows** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:19 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:
165bows wrote:Nice night all around!

Dallas in a 4-7 stretch.

Except for the Pelicans losing. I wonder when they'll finally get their footing and string some wins. Or if they even want to.

Yeah, that's a big question mark for me as well.

We will see over the next month or two if they sell off Ryan Anderson or whoever. Funny thing this year is like 2/3 of the games impact Celtics' picks.

I'll be happy if they end up in the vicinity of 4-5ish, 15-16 (Dallas), and then 20s for the Celtics pick. If they don't make a big trade they can take a high lotto guy, move up into the late lotto with seconds like they did with Olynyk, punt their own first to another potentially better one down the road, then take #31. Basically draft at or around 4-14-31 plus a future first. Another Smart/Olynyk/Mickey draft would do some damage IMO.

Dave_From_NB · Post #1484 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:19 am

Minny just 1.5 games back of conveying their first rounder to the Celtics with their next 5 games against teams under .500.

Bottom half of the West is just such garbage, even with the Mavs record sliding the non-playoff teams below them aren't making up ground.

Gant · Post #1485 » by **Gant** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:50 pm

Dallas still has had an easy schedule. They're just about tied with Houston for easiest in the league at this moment. They've played well and may be able to prevail, but the path will get rougher for them.

http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

Boston: 11th hardest.
Minnesota: 8th easiest.
Brooklyn: tied for 4th hardest. (But New Orleans has had the hardest in the league.)

robbie84 · Post #1486 » by **robbie84** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:21 pm

They are 4 of their last 9 and the only team they've beaten above .500 in that 9 game stretch is Detroit....
So yeah, 3 wins vs teams below .500 and one win at home vs Detroit who are one win above .500
They've had 6 of their last 10 at home too and of those 9 won games they've beaten 1 team over .500
if you include their win vs us, they've had two wins vs .500+ teams in their last 10 games.

Still on track for 24 wins without Lopez or Joe going down, giving us the 3rd or 4th pick.
They're lucky they get to play philly an extra game in the Atlantic too.

They've beaten Philly, Phoenix, Detroit and Houston.
No reason to expect them to win more than 25.

Chris4Vikes · Post #1487 » by **Chris4Vikes** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:58 pm

robbie84 wrote:They are 4 of their last 9 and the only team they've beaten above .500 in that 9 game stretch is Detroit....
So yeah, 3 wins vs teams below .500 and one win at home vs Detroit who are one win above .500
They've had 6 of their last 10 at home too and of those 9 won games they've beaten 1 team over .500
if you include their win vs us, they've had two wins vs .500+ teams in their last 10 games.

Still on track for 24 wins without Lopez or Joe going down, giving us the 3rd or 4th pick.
They're lucky they get to play philly an extra game in the Atlantic too.

They've beaten Philly, Phoenix, Detroit and Houston.
No reason to expect them to win more than 25.

Oh boy I hope you are right, but I am not so sure.

There are times that Brooklyn looks like a really good team. Young has played very well this year and Lopez has played well for the most part. Jack and Johnson are the wild cards. Some games they both look like all stars, others they look like scrubs. RHJ going down hurts them as they get little production from the 2, and at least RHJ gave them great D and energy. Injuries are the wild card as they are not deep at all so another injury and I might start to agree with you. But as it stands I see more like 30 wins because there will be more easy wins from to-be-determined tanking teams in the second half.

KGboss · Post #1488 » by **KGboss** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:52 pm

Larkin has emerged as a huge player for them as well when Jack isn't on. If teams focus on shutting him down when he is in they will almost always lose.

Post #1489 » by **Slartibartfast** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:36 pm

No worries guys. The team has quietly been developing trainwreck momentum without RHJ, even with the 2 wins. No shame in getting outtanked by Philly or a schizo Houston club.

For those who don't click through, Brook Lopez has 16 turnovers to a single assist in the last 3 games. Trying to build an offensive identity around Brook with Bogey in place of RHJ ain't working.

Chris4Vikes · Post #1490 » by **Chris4Vikes** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:16 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:No worries guys. The team has quietly been developing trainwreck momentum without RHJ, even with the 2 wins. No shame in getting outtanked by Philly or a schizo Houston club.

For those who don't click through, Brook Lopez has 16 turnovers to a single assist in the last 3 games. Trying to build an offensive identity around Brook with Bogey in place of RHJ ain't working.

Big game tomorrow in Orlando. I am wondering myself if at some point the players lose motivation and focus.

celtxman · Post #1491 » by **celtxman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:02 pm

Chris4Vikes wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:No worries guys. The team has quietly been developing trainwreck momentum without RHJ, even with the 2 wins. No shame in getting outtanked by Philly or a schizo Houston club.

For those who don't click through, Brook Lopez has 16 turnovers to a single assist in the last 3 games. Trying to build an offensive identity around Brook with Bogey in place of RHJ ain't working.

Big game tomorrow in Orlando. I am wondering myself if at some point the players lose motivation and focus.

We are all hoping they lose motivation, but I think that's wishful thinking. They have enough talent so they have been extremely competitive even against good teams. Thankfully the East is much more competitive this year, so I don't think they'll pass more than one team (Bucks, Knicks, Magic as maybes) unless there is a serious injury. The West scares me however. The one team I'm not worried about is the Pelicans - I think they will get healthier and better as time goes on. But there could be 5-6 teams that might find more value in tanking by the All Star break rather than losing to the Warriors and San Antonio in the first round.
The constant in this equation is that the Nets will try hard to win every game in this process, and the reality is that there will be many teams that will not, both from a management player acquisition standpoint, to actual play on the court. Where normally a team like the Nets trades Joe Johnson for youth and draft picks, they may look at a three-team trade involving them getting talented but overpaid players from a team that wants to tank. We just have to understand that they purposely did not trade Joe Johnson to the Cavs for Brandon Haywood to squeeze out a few more wins, even when financially it would have made so much more sense. Their options are limited, but not gone. I'm hoping they can't get anything to work by the trade deadline

Cornbread · Post #1492 » by **Cornbread** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:32 pm

celtxman wrote:
Chris4Vikes wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:No worries guys. The team has quietly been developing trainwreck momentum without RHJ, even with the 2 wins. No shame in getting outtanked by Philly or a schizo Houston club.

For those who don't click through, Brook Lopez has 16 turnovers to a single assist in the last 3 games. Trying to build an offensive identity around Brook with Bogey in place of RHJ ain't working.

Big game tomorrow in Orlando. I am wondering myself if at some point the players lose motivation and focus.

We are all hoping they lose motivation, but I think that's wishful thinking. They have enough talent so they have been extremely competitive even against good teams. Thankfully the East is much more competitive this year, so I don't think they'll pass more than one team (Bucks, Knicks, Magic as maybes) unless there is a serious injury. The West scares me however. The one team I'm not worried about is the Pelicans - I think they will get healthier and better as time goes on. But there could be 5-6 teams that might find more value in tanking by the All Star break rather than losing to the Warriors and San Antonio in the first round.
The constant in this equation is that the Nets will try hard to win every game in this process, and the reality is that there will be many teams that will not, both from a management player acquisition standpoint, to actual play on the court. Where normally a team like the Nets trades Joe Johnson for youth and draft picks, they may look at a three-team trade involving them getting talented but overpaid players from a team that wants to tank. We just have to understand that they purposely did not trade Joe Johnson to the Cavs for Brandon Haywood to squeeze out a few more wins, even when financially it would have made so much more sense. Their options are limited, but not gone. I'm hoping they can't get anything to work by the trade deadline

I think this is all true, but another factor for both Dallas and Brooklyn is that neither team is very deep at all. And that is really where the pick upside comes from. The Nets will feel the loss of RHJ big team. I checked the box score yesterday in the 4th quarter and the Nets had one bench player with more than 2 points. There is some serious downside if either team suffers any injuries to their top 5.

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Chris4Vikes · Post #1493 » by **Chris4Vikes** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:18 pm

Cornbread wrote:
celtxman wrote:
Chris4Vikes wrote:
Big game tomorrow in Orlando. I am wondering myself if at some point the players lose motivation and focus.

We are all hoping they lose motivation, but I think that's wishful thinking. They have enough talent so they have been extremely competitive even against good teams. Thankfully the East is much more competitive this year, so I don't think they'll pass more than one team (Bucks, Knicks, Magic as maybes) unless there is a serious injury. The West scares me however. The one team I'm not worried about is the Pelicans - I think they will get healthier and better as time goes on. But there could be 5-6 teams that might find more value in tanking by the All Star break rather than losing to the Warriors and San Antonio in the first round.
The constant in this equation is that the Nets will try hard to win every game in this process, and the reality is that there will be many teams that will not, both from a management player acquisition standpoint, to actual play on the court. Where normally a team like the Nets trades Joe Johnson for youth and draft picks, they may look at a three-team trade involving them getting talented but overpaid players from a team that wants to tank. We just have to understand that they purposely did not trade Joe Johnson to the Cavs for Brandon Haywood to squeeze out a few more wins, even when financially it would have made so much more sense. Their options are limited, but not gone. I'm hoping they can't get anything to work by the trade deadline

I think this is all true, but another factor for both Dallas and Brooklyn is that neither team is very deep at all. And that is really where the pick upside comes from. The Nets will feel the loss of RHJ big team. I checked the box score yesterday in the 4th quarter and the Nets had one bench player with more than 2 points. There is some serious downside if either team suffers any injuries to their top 5.

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Yes, good point. Not wishing injury on anyone or any team, but I am stating the obvious when I say it's hard for core of 5 guys to stay healthy all year. The Celtics have been OK because of depth, but Smart, Bradley have both missed time this year.

celtxman · Post #1494 » by **celtxman** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:51 pm

Cornbread wrote:
celtxman wrote:
Chris4Vikes wrote:
Big game tomorrow in Orlando. I am wondering myself if at some point the players lose motivation and focus.

We are all hoping they lose motivation, but I think that's wishful thinking. They have enough talent so they have been extremely competitive even against good teams. Thankfully the East is much more competitive this year, so I don't think they'll pass more than one team (Bucks, Knicks, Magic as maybes) unless there is a serious injury. The West scares me however. The one team I'm not worried about is the Pelicans - I think they will get healthier and better as time goes on. But there could be 5-6 teams that might find more value in tanking by the All Star break rather than losing to the Warriors and San Antonio in the first round.
The constant in this equation is that the Nets will try hard to win every game in this process, and the reality is that there will be many teams that will not, both from a management player acquisition standpoint, to actual play on the court. Where normally a team like the Nets trades Joe Johnson for youth and draft picks, they may look at a three-team trade involving them getting talented but overpaid players from a team that wants to tank. We just have to understand that they purposely did not trade Joe Johnson to the Cavs for Brandon Haywood to squeeze out a few more wins, even when financially it would have made so much more sense. Their options are limited, but not gone. I'm hoping they can't get anything to work by the trade deadline

I think this is all true, but another factor for both Dallas and Brooklyn is that neither team is very deep at all. And that is really where the pick upside comes from. The Nets will feel the loss of RHJ big team. I checked the box score yesterday in the 4th quarter and the Nets had one bench player with more than 2 points. There is some serious downside if either team suffers any injuries to their top 5.

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Depth can be gotten - take a franchise wanting to nosedive like Denver - Faried and Gallo for Joe Johnson. You don't even need a third team. Maybe some combination from Phoenix like Morris and Tyson Chandler. This Joe Johnson contract can get other teams thinking long and hard - just like the Nets did when they took him off of table once they got under the luxury threshhold. I was thinking about this before the season. Now the trade partners are starting to emerge. The Nets are looking for every last win - their strategy is different than any other team in the NBA.

Cornbread · Post #1495 » by **Cornbread** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:21 am

celtxman wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
celtxman wrote:We are all hoping they lose motivation, but I think that's wishful thinking. They have enough talent so they have been extremely competitive even against good teams. Thankfully the East is much more competitive this year, so I don't think they'll pass more than one team (Bucks, Knicks, Magic as maybes) unless there is a serious injury. The West scares me however. The one team I'm not worried about is the Pelicans - I think they will get healthier and better as time goes on. But there could be 5-6 teams that might find more value in tanking by the All Star break rather than losing to the Warriors and San Antonio in the first round.
The constant in this equation is that the Nets will try hard to win every game in this process, and the reality is that there will be many teams that will not, both from a management player acquisition standpoint, to actual play on the court. Where normally a team like the Nets trades Joe Johnson for youth and draft picks, they may look at a three-team trade involving them getting talented but overpaid players from a team that wants to tank. We just have to understand that they purposely did not trade Joe Johnson to the Cavs for Brandon Haywood to squeeze out a few more wins, even when financially it would have made so much more sense. Their options are limited, but not gone. I'm hoping they can't get anything to work by the trade deadline

I think this is all true, but another factor for both Dallas and Brooklyn is that neither team is very deep at all. And that is really where the pick upside comes from. The Nets will feel the loss of RHJ big team. I checked the box score yesterday in the 4th quarter and the Nets had one bench player with more than 2 points. There is some serious downside if either team suffers any injuries to their top 5.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depth can be gotten - take a franchise wanting to nosedive like Denver - Faried and Gallo for Joe Johnson. You don't even need a third team. Maybe some combination from Phoenix like Morris and Tyson Chandler. This Joe Johnson contract can get other teams thinking long and hard - just like the Nets did when they took him off of table once they got under the luxury threshhold. I was thinking about this before the season. Now the trade partners are starting to emerge. The Nets are looking for every last win - their strategy is different than any other team in the NBA.

This doesn't make sense. Why would Denver deal Faried and Galinari just to give them away? They just signed Galinari to an extension. He's a net positive asset. Trading them for Johnson would be the equivalent of giving them away to get out from their salaries. The Nets don't have additional assets to pair with the salary match to make a team like Denver do a deal like this.

The only way they flip Johnson to helps this years team is if they take on other drastically overpaid players. Those types are rare now with the cap going up.

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skywalker33 · Post #1496 » by **skywalker33** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:56 am

Cornbread wrote:
celtxman wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
I think this is all true, but another factor for both Dallas and Brooklyn is that neither team is very deep at all. And that is really where the pick upside comes from. The Nets will feel the loss of RHJ big team. I checked the box score yesterday in the 4th quarter and the Nets had one bench player with more than 2 points. There is some serious downside if either team suffers any injuries to their top 5.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depth can be gotten - take a franchise wanting to nosedive like Denver - Faried and Gallo for Joe Johnson. You don't even need a third team. Maybe some combination from Phoenix like Morris and Tyson Chandler. This Joe Johnson contract can get other teams thinking long and hard - just like the Nets did when they took him off of table once they got under the luxury threshhold. I was thinking about this before the season. Now the trade partners are starting to emerge. The Nets are looking for every last win - their strategy is different than any other team in the NBA.

This doesn't make sense. Why would Denver deal Faried and Galinari just to give them away? They just signed Galinari to an extension. He's a net positive asset. Trading them for Johnson would be the equivalent of giving them away to get out from their salaries. The Nets don't have additional assets to pair with the salary match to make a team like Denver do a deal like this.

The only way they flip Johnson to helps this years team is if they take on other drastically overpaid players. Those types are rare now with the cap going up.

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Well, not only would it give Denver salary relief, as Johnson is an expiring contract, it really would help DEN get passed by BKN in the standings, helping the likelyhood of a top 3 pick. They could also add some value like RHJ or Chris McCullough to add to our rebuild. Very unlikely but not out of the question. ......................................................................................

Cornbread · Post #1497 » by **Cornbread** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:03 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
celtxman wrote:Depth can be gotten - take a franchise wanting to nosedive like Denver - Faried and Gallo for Joe Johnson. You don't even need a third team. Maybe some combination from Phoenix like Morris and Tyson Chandler. This Joe Johnson contract can get other teams thinking long and hard - just like the Nets did when they took him off of table once they got under the luxury threshhold. I was thinking about this before the season. Now the trade partners are starting to emerge. The Nets are looking for every last win - their strategy is different than any other team in the NBA.

This doesn't make sense. Why would Denver deal Faried and Galinari just to give them away? They just signed Galinari to an extension. He's a net positive asset. Trading them for Johnson would be the equivalent of giving them away to get out from their salaries. The Nets don't have additional assets to pair with the salary match to make a team like Denver do a deal like this.

The only way they flip Johnson to helps this years team is if they take on other drastically overpaid players. Those types are rare now with the cap going up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, not only would it give Denver salary relief, as Johnson is an expiring contract, it really would help DEN get passed by BKN in the standings, helping the likelyhood of a top 3 pick. They could also add some value like RHJ or Chris McCullough to add to our rebuild. Very unlikely but not out of the question. ......................................................................................

Yes, 100% out of the question. The Nuggets aren't giving away net positive assets to jump one spot in the lottery and be couple percentage points more likely to get the top pick.

If they trade Gallinari it would be to a team like the Celtics for Lee and a first. Similar with Faried.

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celtxman · Post #1498 » by **celtxman** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:14 am

My bad with Gallo - looked at HoopsHype salaries and it didn't include his extension. The new cap will definitely have an impact but teams will still be looking to shed players who aren't part of their future and look for the bonus of a higher draft pick.
I'll put it another way. I'll be surprised if the Nets stand pat and aren't able to acquire an overpaid player who can help them.

skywalker33 · Post #1499 » by **skywalker33** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:25 am

Cornbread wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
This doesn't make sense. Why would Denver deal Faried and Galinari just to give them away? They just signed Galinari to an extension. He's a net positive asset. Trading them for Johnson would be the equivalent of giving them away to get out from their salaries. The Nets don't have additional assets to pair with the salary match to make a team like Denver do a deal like this.

The only way they flip Johnson to helps this years team is if they take on other drastically overpaid players. Those types are rare now with the cap going up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, not only would it give Denver salary relief, as Johnson is an expiring contract, it really would help DEN get passed by BKN in the standings, helping the likelyhood of a top 3 pick. They could also add some value like RHJ or Chris McCullough to add to our rebuild. Very unlikely but not out of the question. ......................................................................................

Yes, 100% out of the question. The Nuggets aren't giving away net positive assets to jump one spot in the lottery and be couple percentage points more likely to get the top pick.

If they trade Gallinari it would be to a team like the Celtics for Lee and a first. Similar with Faried.

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Surely you can't be so naive to think that BOS is the only game in town ? If TOR was added to acquire Faried that could change the dynamics significantly. As I did pointed out, certainly unlikely but NOT as implausible as you may believe. It would almost behoove the C's to step up and try to acquire a talent like Gallo diminish that possibility, but I doubt DEN would have any interest for Lee and either the BOS or DAL pick, which is what I'm sure you meant (but something could be worked out).

Post #1500 » by **165bows** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:32 am

skywalker33 wrote:
Cornbread wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Well, not only would it give Denver salary relief, as Johnson is an expiring contract, it really would help DEN get passed by BKN in the standings, helping the likelyhood of a top 3 pick. They could also add some value like RHJ or Chris McCullough to add to our rebuild. Very unlikely but not out of the question. ......................................................................................

Yes, 100% out of the question. The Nuggets aren't giving away net positive assets to jump one spot in the lottery and be couple percentage points more likely to get the top pick.

If they trade Gallinari it would be to a team like the Celtics for Lee and a first. Similar with Faried.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely you can't be so naive to think that BOS is the only game in town ? If TOR was added to acquire Faried that could change the dynamics significantly. As I did pointed out, certainly unlikely but NOT as implausible as you may believe. It would almost behoove the C's to step up and try to acquire a talent like Gallo diminish that possibility, but I doubt DEN would have any interest for Lee and either the BOS or DAL pick, which is what I'm sure you meant (but something could be worked out).

Or they could do Joe Johnson for Carmelo Anthony. Or Joe Johnson for Dwight Howard. Possibilities are endless.