Trade Post-Mortem 2017: Eight is Enough

[ConstableGeneva]

Dunno if there's any substance/truth to this...

“The Cavs were on pins and needles yesterday about the Celtics (possibly) getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler”.

Windhorst then shed light on the thinking of the Cavs amidst the rumors.

“If it’s Isaiah Thomas, Al Horford, and Jimmy Butler, the Cavs might be out there saying, ‘We might have to trade Kevin Love,'” Windhorst surmised.

That was from Lowe Post podcast post-trade deadline. I think Windbag also mentioned that IT-Hayward-Horford doesn't scare Lebron/Cavs as much as PG does.

I don't think anyone is going to say that Hayward is better than Butler or George, the difference is one costs players and the other costs money. I think the plan is to add both and make a run at it here.

I think the team needs to put in more effort and invest some of those resources to add a rim-protecting rebounding big (can't come up with a name though) than a third scorer unless we plan on just trying to outscore opponents. If there's anything (might be the only thing) I'm disappointed about Horford, it's the lack of impact on the defensive end. Or at least my personal expectations weren't met considering we had a top 5 defensive team with Sully at C last season. We need a Draymond Green or Gobert-type to compete at the highest level with the current configuration. I thought a motivated and improved Nerlens Noel would've been a great fit alongside Horford if we added a Jimmy Butler or Paul George but that ship has sailed. I'm not counting on Zizic to be that guy in his first season.

[Darth Celtic]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

[ConstableGeneva]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

That's ideal, yes, Bulls and Pacers won't listen with BKN 17 off the table. Just my opinion.

[chrisab123]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

PG13 the Celtics shouldn't bother with. He's a Laker in 2018 regardless. The target in free agency should be Hayward or Blake and in trade try to get the Bulls to listen on Butler.

[Froob]

Why not Zoidberg err I mean CJ McCollum? I think if we get a top two pick we have to keep it but if we slip to 3 or 4...Blazers need to shed salary and that could be a hell of a pickup. Rather trade one pick for him than empty everything we have for Jimmy or PG and CJ is locked in for another four years.

[Froob]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

PG13 the Celtics shouldn't bother with. He's a Laker in 2018 regardless. The target in free agency should be Hayward or Blake and in trade try to get the Bulls to listen on Butler.

I'd bet good money Butler is not traded. He's a hell of a combo with Stephen Gilmore.


Err whoops wrong board. I mean Jimmy Butler won't be traded either, Bulls are too stubborn and want too much. Middle ground will never be found, I think we should forget about it.

[DarkAzcura]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

PG13 the Celtics shouldn't bother with. He's a Laker in 2018 regardless. The target in free agency should be Hayward or Blake and in trade try to get the Bulls to listen on Butler.

I've been hearing about all these players that were going to be Lakers for years now, but they never seem to end up over there. Not picking on you, but I'd take "Player X will be a Laker" with a grain of salt at this point. Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Durant were all heavily rumored as potential Lakers in the last 5-7 years.

If the Celtics signed Hayward, I'd be shocked if George left a winning situation in Boston for a losing one in LA. Players really don't do that.

[Zaschrona]

Well, let's say we are able to trade 2017 BKN pick + Bradley, Crowder and minor picks during draft night for Paul George. We then sign Zizic, while we declare Yabusele won't come to NBA for another year and cut Jordan Mickey and Tyler Zeller, we also say bye to Olynyk, Jerebko, Johnson, Green and Young. This means we would have on books $70.5M of 12 cap holds - so just enough to sign a max FA.

So then we sign Gordon Hayward (or Blake Griffin as a backup option) for full max contract. That gets us IT/Rozier, Hayward/Smart, George/Brown, no PFs, Horford/Zizic.

So we would likely need a trade for a PF. What about Aaron Gordon? A trade like Terry Rozier + Demetrius Jackson + 2018 BKN pick after 7/15/17 after Jackson's contract becomes fully guarantedd works under the new CBA when it is allowed to make 175%+$100k trades. We can also then try to trade Brown + 18 BKN for a player like Porzingis.

But let's say we are able to get Aaron Gordon. Eventually this would give Boston a line-up like:

IT/Smart
Hayward/Brown
George/Nader
Gordon/FA for Room Exception ($4.3M) = Z-Bo, Humphries, Bass?
Horford/Zizic

With signing Griffin things are potentally easier as there would be no need at all for a trade for another power forward.

What do you guys think about this scenario? Would you trade BKN 18 and Rozier for Gordon? Would you make the original trade for George?

[smart_celtics]

Well, let's say we are able to trade 2017 BKN pick + Bradley, Crowder and minor picks during draft night for Paul George. We then sign Zizic, while we declare Yabusele won't come to NBA for another year and cut Jordan Mickey and Tyler Zeller, we also say bye to Olynyk, Jerebko, Johnson, Green and Young. This means we would have on books $70.5M of 12 cap holds - so just enough to sign a max FA.

So then we sign Gordon Hayward (or Blake Griffin as a backup option) for full max contract. That gets us IT/Rozier, Hayward/Smart, George/Brown, no PFs, Horford/Zizic.

So we would likely need a trade for a PF. What about Aaron Gordon? A trade like Terry Rozier + Demetrius Jackson + 2018 BKN pick after 7/15/17 after Jackson's contract becomes fully guarantedd works under the new CBA when it is allowed to make 175%+$100k trades. We can also then try to trade Brown + 18 BKN for a player like Porzingis.

But let's say we are able to get Aaron Gordon. Eventually this would give Boston a line-up like:

IT/Smart
Hayward/Brown
George/Nader
Gordon/FA for Room Exception ($4.3M) = Z-Bo, Humphries, Bass?
Horford/Zizic

With signing Griffin things are potentally easier as there would be no need at all for a trade for another power forward.

What do you guys think about this scenario? Would you trade BKN 18 and Rozier for Gordon? Would you make the original trade for George?

Orlando is getting impatient with how long their rebuild is lasting. They are not trading Gordon for a future 1st.

[bucknersrevenge]

Not talking about a specific skill set we need. I'm saying in general we aren't in the market for Green type guys. Ainge didn't make such moves, he's waiting for something else.

I feel like we're talking past each other so I'm gonna let it go. Danny's in search and then after that, he's going to want to fill in the gaps. There were whispers during the deadline that Green was someone that they were interested in actually. But back then I think it was mostly high-level stuff and they would revisit it during the offseason. But if you don't think George and Green are players that can help us, so be it. I'll let it go now because you ignored my response about Paul George and you say they're looking for something else (not a skillset) but haven't been really clear on what that is.

Was never speaking of George. Player in question is J.Green.

I know this. I WAS speaking about George and Green...which means you missed my ENTIRE argument. That's the point. We're talking past each other because you're talking about something different than I'm talking about.

[chrisab123]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

PG13 the Celtics shouldn't bother with. He's a Laker in 2018 regardless. The target in free agency should be Hayward or Blake and in trade try to get the Bulls to listen on Butler.

I've been hearing about all these players that were going to be Lakers for years now, but they never seem to end up over there. Not picking on you, but I'd take "Player X will be a Laker" with a grain of salt at this point. Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Durant were all heavily rumored as potential Lakers in the last 5-7 years.

If the Celtics signed Hayward, I'd be shocked if George left a winning situation in Boston for a losing one in LA. Players really don't do that.

Different now. Mitch is no longer in charge. Magic is. They'll listen more than ever at the Lakers antiquated pitch. All it takes is one to bite and it sounds like PG will.

[Valid]

PG13 the Celtics shouldn't bother with. He's a Laker in 2018 regardless. The target in free agency should be Hayward or Blake and in trade try to get the Bulls to listen on Butler.

I've been hearing about all these players that were going to be Lakers for years now, but they never seem to end up over there. Not picking on you, but I'd take "Player X will be a Laker" with a grain of salt at this point. Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Durant were all heavily rumored as potential Lakers in the last 5-7 years.

If the Celtics signed Hayward, I'd be shocked if George left a winning situation in Boston for a losing one in LA. Players really don't do that.

Different now. Mitch is no longer in charge. Magic is. They'll listen more than ever at the Lakers antiquated pitch. All it takes is one to bite and it sounds like PG will.

It has nothing to do with who is in charge and everything to do with the state of the team. The Lakers are so far away from contending now that you would need a Hubble telescope to see them. Paul George and the rest of the league knows this. We live in an era where guys want to win titles more than ever before, and the Lakers simply don't provide that opportunity right now.

[chrisab123]

I've been hearing about all these players that were going to be Lakers for years now, but they never seem to end up over there. Not picking on you, but I'd take "Player X will be a Laker" with a grain of salt at this point. Westbrook, Kevin Love, and Durant were all heavily rumored as potential Lakers in the last 5-7 years.

If the Celtics signed Hayward, I'd be shocked if George left a winning situation in Boston for a losing one in LA. Players really don't do that.

Different now. Mitch is no longer in charge. Magic is. They'll listen more than ever at the Lakers antiquated pitch. All it takes is one to bite and it sounds like PG will.

It has nothing to do with who is in charge and everything to do with the state of the team. The Lakers are so far away from contending now that you would need a Hubble telescope to see them. Paul George and the rest of the league knows this. We live in an era where guys want to win titles more than ever before, and the Lakers simply don't provide that opportunity right now.

I strongly disagree with it doesn't matter. Why do players flock to Miami? Even without LeBron. Weather and Leadership. Magic has rings and all it takes is PG buying in and they're closer to contending than Boston if that happens. The one thing bogging them down are the **** contracts to Deng and Mozgov

[Fencer reregistered]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

Who are you sending out to meet the salary requirement in those scenarios?

[Darth Celtic]

The point is to draft a player with the 17 pick. Sign yabu/zizic and a close to max fee agent. THEN trade nets 18 and future assets for a butler/PG13 using the 150% rule. That way we can take on the extra salary and not have it cut into our free agent money. That is why we won't trade the 17 pick for PG13, as we can't and have the plan at the same time.

Who are you sending out to meet the salary requirement in those scenarios?

Probably Bradley/Smart/Brown or something like that

Draft Fultz, sign Hayward, trade for PG13.

[robdog_5]

I feel like we can use Thibs love for 3/D guys and his unwillingness to play young players to our advantage in a deal with Minny to help sweeten the pot for PG or Butler.

3 way deal.

Boston gets Star (PG or Butler)
Minny gets Avery Bradley and either Chic/Indy first round pick 16 or 18.
Chicago/Indy get Crowder (or Brown), Minny #6 pick and NJ 2018 pick.

Celtics can still draft Fultz with #1 pick. Losing Crowder and Bradley opens up 15mil so we only lose net about 4-5 mil. Then we can take a stab at a PF/C type in Free Agency. Green, Taj Gibson, possibly Greg Monroe, could be options. Maybe try to bring Bogut in on a MLE as well.

C Horford-Zizic/Bogut
PF JGreen-Horford/Olynk
SF Paul George-Brown/Gerald Green (Vet Min)/Nader
SG Jaylen Brown-Marcus Smart/Rozier
PG IT-Fultz/Rozier
Bench

[N.O.R.E.]

^Even if for only PR reasons, there is no way the Bulls give you guys Jimmy and let you keep the #1 pick.

[chrisab123]

Gordon goes off again last night. But that part doesn't matter if we sign him. We're only going after him because he's white!!! Right ESPN?

[robdog_5]

^Even if for only PR reasons, there is no way the Bulls give you guys Jimmy and let you keep the #1 pick.

That's fine. That is a good deal though 2 likely lottery picks in back to back years and a nba legit 3 who is either a starter or 6th man type on a good contract. You could throw in any young guys at the bottom of Boston's bench or you could throw in another 2nd round pick from Boston (they have 3) but I feel that's pretty fair value.

[Darth Celtic]

IF we use our cap space on haward, we can trade Bradley/Smart/Rozier for PG13 after and work. Still need some more size and we'd have to trade a PG/SG to replace bradley/smart as I'm not sure JBrown is ready for 35mpg. Crowder/Smart/Rozier works too.