The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

I posted this on the General Board... If Shaq is priming the Sac fans for an eventual Cousins deal rather than just speaking off the cuff,
(either case, you'll likely see a story leaked that Kings management have no interest in dealing Cousins)
then those Brooklyn picks (pick) could end up with the Kings in some multi-team deal. After Jackie MacMullan mentioned
Philly's interest in Avery Bradley, I thought the Celtics, Kings and Sixers could whip up some sort of trade,
where Philly receives Bradley, Sac gains lots of Draft picks, draft rights restored and young players, and the
Celtics obtain Cousins and Gay/Casspri/McLemore.

I think if Cousins is available this season, despite clearing Cap Space for Free Agency, Ainge will go after him. In the past,
not so much so, but now with the addition of Horford, IT and other good guys like Olynyk, they may feel they
can weather Cousins storms. I am thinking the Cousins situation could turn out similar to Marcus Morris, who was
a terrible person in Phoenix, but seems to have rehabilitated his image with Detroit.

Is this Avery + 2 Brooklyn picks for Cousins?

It would make sense for Avery and the Brooklyn pick (picks) to be a major part of a framework of a deal and
Philly involved since they have the Kings 2019 choice and the right to swap picks (2017). Something along the lines of
Bradley et al. to Philly; Philly then nullifies the Sac pick swaps and returns the 2019 pick, Boston sends something
and something to the Kings, Nets 2017 pick, own 2018 pick, 2019 Memphis pick... the framework for a three team deal
is there if Cousins becomes available.

[jrob23]

In a hearbeat. It would allow Horford to play the 4. Nurkic as a big is just inherently more valuable than a backup combo guard and fills our biggest need. I'll take his 12.5, 8.6 and 1.6 blocks over Smart. Yep

Exactly.

Yeah, a center can be "inherently more valuable", but you all clearly don't recognize Smart's impact and his potential. He's not the piece you deal for a center.

I could say you "clearly don't recognize Nurkic's impact or potential" as well. I love Smart and get he's a very valuable piece who hasn't fully reached his potential. But big men with offensive game are rare and despite the value we get from Smart, we have resources to take his place whereas our big men after KO and AH are very average. Nurkic would be a huge upgrade on the 2nd unit or even as starter to push AH to PF. The problem with this whole scenario is that there's no chance DEN even wants Smart as they've got Mudiay and Murray locked up for a few years on cheap deals and they are the future, plus they also have Gary Harris starting. It's not a match.

[Fencer reregistered]

I posted this on the General Board... If Shaq is priming the Sac fans for an eventual Cousins deal rather than just speaking off the cuff,
(either case, you'll likely see a story leaked that Kings management have no interest in dealing Cousins)
then those Brooklyn picks (pick) could end up with the Kings in some multi-team deal. After Jackie MacMullan mentioned
Philly's interest in Avery Bradley, I thought the Celtics, Kings and Sixers could whip up some sort of trade,
where Philly receives Bradley, Sac gains lots of Draft picks, draft rights restored and young players, and the
Celtics obtain Cousins and Gay/Casspri/McLemore.

I think if Cousins is available this season, despite clearing Cap Space for Free Agency, Ainge will go after him. In the past,
not so much so, but now with the addition of Horford, IT and other good guys like Olynyk, they may feel they
can weather Cousins storms. I am thinking the Cousins situation could turn out similar to Marcus Morris, who was
a terrible person in Phoenix, but seems to have rehabilitated his image with Detroit.

Is this Avery + 2 Brooklyn picks for Cousins?

It would make sense for Avery and the Brooklyn pick (picks) to be a major part of a framework of a deal and
Philly involved since they have the Kings 2019 choice and the right to swap picks (2017). Something along the lines of
Bradley et al. to Philly; Philly then nullifies the Sac pick swaps and returns the 2019 pick, Boston sends something
and something to the Kings, Nets 2017 pick, own 2018 pick, 2019 Memphis pick... the framework for a three team deal
is there if Cousins becomes available.

The three-way trade logic makes sense; if Sacramento trades Cousins, their own picks increase in value, so they should make recovering their picks be a condition for the deal, which means somebody needs to make Philadelphia happy to unload the picks.

I just question paying a price for Cousins that's anywhere near commensurate with his talent, given the premise that he would be traded because he's judged to be an irredeemable head case.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

How do you replace Avery's shooting then? Rozier ? Or do you just not replace the shooting, and the touches go to cousins and the remaining shooters get even easier cleaner looks? Coach Stevens has said he prefers Marcus in the 6th Man role, not sure if I buy that 100% if avery is shipped out of town, but for right now that would seem to be the best place for him when we are fully healthy, and once Brown Gains more experience enough to play behind Jae for more minutes.

[Froob]

Trade for Cousins in the off season when he has a year left after another losing season. Once we know Cousins won't res sign there his value will be lowest.

[Murta]

Trade for Cousins in the off season when he has a year left after another losing season. Once we know Cousins won't res sign there his value will be lowest.

IMHO, a huge part of Cousins' value for Celtics (or any other hopeful team) would be getting him before the 2017 free agency starts and having a puncher's chance at successfully making another domino fall.

[reload141]

Trade for Cousins in the off season when he has a year left after another losing season. Once we know Cousins won't res sign there his value will be lowest.

Yep, agree with this.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, Smart is filling the ET role as Swiss Army knife off the bench. But elite D. And he's improving so much on offense... I'd say his floor is still Kyle Lowry, within a few years.

Nurkic is a complicated prospect, apart from what Denver fans say. I'd put his trajectory toward being a less offensively inept version of career year Omer Asik.

He can't create his own shot like Lowry. Lowry is quick with the dribble and able to get wherever he wants and get off any shot he wants. That will never be Smarts strength. It was a pipe dream comparison when he was drafted.

It took Lowry years to become a serious scorer. He started out in Houston as a poor man's Rondo, good defense and racking up assists.

Smart is good and going to be better, you all are just getting impatient because we're not rolling through the league right now and he's not fully developed yet.

You have to watch young players for signs of improvement, to see the glimpses of the parts of their game coming online.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Exactly.

Yeah, a center can be "inherently more valuable", but you all clearly don't recognize Smart's impact and his potential. He's not the piece you deal for a center.

I could say you "clearly don't recognize Nurkic's impact or potential" as well. I love Smart and get he's a very valuable piece who hasn't fully reached his potential. But big men with offensive game are rare and despite the value we get from Smart, we have resources to take his place whereas our big men after KO and AH are very average. Nurkic would be a huge upgrade on the 2nd unit or even as starter to push AH to PF. The problem with this whole scenario is that there's no chance DEN even wants Smart as they've got Mudiay and Murray locked up for a few years on cheap deals and they are the future, plus they also have Gary Harris starting. It's not a match.

Are you getting Nurkic's offensive game confused with Jokic's offensive game?

[SMTBSI]

Amir and Grizzilies 1st for Gortat.

Why does Washington do that?

How about: Amir, '17 MIN 2nd (currently ~35), '18 BOS 1st (20's?), '19 LAC 1st (non-lotto or it's a 2nd), and, if they want, their choice of one of Jackson/Nader/Young/Mickey.

Quantity over quality for sure, but still: four cost-controlled youths of your choice is not a bad thing.

For us, it's quite a few resources for a non-longterm play in Gortat, but, they're all very much non-premium assets - exactly the kind of move we want to make: spend some of our abundant 3rd tier assets on a modest win-now move, while keeping all the big guns in reserve.

[Edug27]

Yeah, Smart is filling the ET role as Swiss Army knife off the bench. But elite D. And he's improving so much on offense... I'd say his floor is still Kyle Lowry, within a few years.

Nurkic is a complicated prospect, apart from what Denver fans say. I'd put his trajectory toward being a less offensively inept version of career year Omer Asik.

He can't create his own shot like Lowry. Lowry is quick with the dribble and able to get wherever he wants and get off any shot he wants. That will never be Smarts strength. It was a pipe dream comparison when he was drafted.

It took Lowry years to become a serious scorer. He started out in Houston as a poor man's Rondo, good defense and racking up assists.

Smart is good and going to be better, you all are just getting impatient because we're not rolling through the league right now and he's not fully developed yet.

You have to watch young players for signs of improvement, to see the glimpses of the parts of their game coming online.

Lowry has always been quick with the dribble and able to penetrate. He put it all together in his mid 20's. Smart is not quick with the dribble. He slow penetrating. Again, you're looking at the physical appearances, size and bodies. They have 2 complete different skill sets. It's not a knock on Smart... just an unfair comparison

[Andrew McCeltic]

He can't create his own shot like Lowry. Lowry is quick with the dribble and able to get wherever he wants and get off any shot he wants. That will never be Smarts strength. It was a pipe dream comparison when he was drafted.

It took Lowry years to become a serious scorer. He started out in Houston as a poor man's Rondo, good defense and racking up assists.

Smart is good and going to be better, you all are just getting impatient because we're not rolling through the league right now and he's not fully developed yet.

You have to watch young players for signs of improvement, to see the glimpses of the parts of their game coming online.

Lowry has always been quick with the dribble and able to penetrate. He put it all together in his mid 20's. Smart is not quick with the dribble. He slow penetrating. Again, you're looking at the physical appearances, size and bodies. They have 2 complete different skill sets. It's not a knock on Smart... just an unfair comparison

Yeah, that's fine. I'm talking more about development trajectory and value of finished product than specifics of his game.

[Fencer reregistered]

Amir and Grizzilies 1st for Gortat.

Why does Washington do that?

How about: Amir, '17 MIN 2nd (currently ~35), '18 BOS 1st (20's?), '19 LAC 1st (non-lotto or it's a 2nd), and, if they want, their choice of one of Jackson/Nader/Young/Mickey.

Quantity over quality for sure, but still: four cost-controlled youths of your choice is not a bad thing.

For us, it's quite a few resources for a non-longterm play in Gortat, but, they're all very much non-premium assets - exactly the kind of move we want to make: spend some of our abundant 3rd tier assets on a modest win-now move, while keeping all the big guns in reserve.

That has appeal, but it blows up our precious cap room.

[SMTBSI]

Why does Washington do that?

How about: Amir, '17 MIN 2nd (currently ~35), '18 BOS 1st (20's?), '19 LAC 1st (non-lotto or it's a 2nd), and, if they want, their choice of one of Jackson/Nader/Young/Mickey.

Quantity over quality for sure, but still: four cost-controlled youths of your choice is not a bad thing.

For us, it's quite a few resources for a non-longterm play in Gortat, but, they're all very much non-premium assets - exactly the kind of move we want to make: spend some of our abundant 3rd tier assets on a modest win-now move, while keeping all the big guns in reserve.

That has appeal, but it blows up our precious cap room.

Do you not believe we would be able to give Gortat away for free if we needed to? Or, worst case, use a couple seconds to dump him?

Yeah, it would suck to use assets to acquire him, then use assets again to dump him, but you'd only risk needing to do that in the case where you actually successfully lured another max FA, and at that point you're not going to stress too much about losing a few third tier assets.

Heck, we could even tell Washington we'll give him right back to them in the offseason for free, if we lure an FA. A literal rental - they pocket some assets for loaning him to us for a year.

[165bows]

How about: Amir, '17 MIN 2nd (currently ~35), '18 BOS 1st (20's?), '19 LAC 1st (non-lotto or it's a 2nd), and, if they want, their choice of one of Jackson/Nader/Young/Mickey.

Quantity over quality for sure, but still: four cost-controlled youths of your choice is not a bad thing.

For us, it's quite a few resources for a non-longterm play in Gortat, but, they're all very much non-premium assets - exactly the kind of move we want to make: spend some of our abundant 3rd tier assets on a modest win-now move, while keeping all the big guns in reserve.

That has appeal, but it blows up our precious cap room.

Do you not believe we would be able to give Gortat away for free if we needed to? Or, worst case, use a couple seconds to dump him?

Yeah, it would suck to use assets to acquire him, then use assets again to dump him, but you'd only risk needing to do that in the case where you actually successfully lured another max FA, and at that point you're not going to stress too much about losing a few third tier assets.

Heck, we could even tell Washington we'll give him right back to them in the offseason for free, if we lure an FA. A literal rental - they pocket some assets for loaning him to us for a year.

I'd rather try to do the same but instead for ZBo and keep their own pick out of it. Have to keep control of those.

[reload141]

Jokic coming off the bench for Denver now.... starting Nukic/Faried frontcourt... wowie! Wasn't he supposed to be the most amazing thing since sliced bread?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, Jokic is good. They're trying to find a combination that works. Gallo could be moved, too.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Rozier for Noel? Can we just go do that now?

[Andrew McCeltic]

His RFA hold will cut into our cap, but if we need max space, or we want to trade the BKN pick for a max guy, we have other contracts we can move.

At some point, keeping a seat open for Hayward becomes counter-productive.

Get Nerlens, see what else you can do. We likely go into the summer with enough money to add someone anyway, or we can maneuver if we need to.

[Fencer reregistered]

Do you not believe we would be able to give Gortat away for free if we needed to? Or, worst case, use a couple seconds to dump him?

Yeah, it would suck to use assets to acquire him, then use assets again to dump him, but you'd only risk needing to do that in the case where you actually successfully lured another max FA, and at that point you're not going to stress too much about losing a few third tier assets.

Heck, we could even tell Washington we'll give him right back to them in the offseason for free, if we lure an FA. A literal rental - they pocket some assets for loaning him to us for a year.

What if he blows out a knee?

Also, "a couple of seconds" is hardly the worst case. Consider for example Chicago dumping Kirk Hinrich or Phoenix dumping Kurt Thomas.