Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[playa-hater]

This is true...

Read on Twitter

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

[165bows]

Looks like OKC, San Antonio, Memphis and LAC are a bunch of the teams that are going to have to move people due to roster size.

Edit: random and inaccurate list of guys that might get let go -

SA - Khem Birch, Reggie Bullock, Cedi Osman
Okc - discussed a bunch already
Memphis - Isaiah Todd (seems like a scrub but idk), someone else (I'd be vaguely interested in Kenny Lofton Jr.)
LAC - maybe Amir Coffee (didn't he just have legal issues?), Hyland or one of their old PFs like Covington or Morris.

My guess is they'd target a big who can shoot or pass since it seems like Blake is likely retiring, Birch is a fine minutes eater but he's too similar for Kornet to sign imo. I would've been interested in Javale if they were cutting Kornet but it's likely they won't, and he's going to Sacramento anyway

Also I don't think any of the Clippers guys you mention gets cut

Looks like OKC, San Antonio, Memphis and LAC are a bunch of the teams that are going to have to move people due to roster size.

Edit: random and inaccurate list of guys that might get let go -

SA - Khem Birch, Reggie Bullock, Cedi Osman
Okc - discussed a bunch already
Memphis - Isaiah Todd (seems like a scrub but idk), someone else (I'd be vaguely interested in Kenny Lofton Jr.)
LAC - maybe Amir Coffee (didn't he just have legal issues?), Hyland or one of their old PFs like Covington or Morris.

No way in hell Memphis waives Lofton. He had 42 points and 14 rebs in a game as a rookie.

And yes, Coffey is certainly in legal trouble:
https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-amir-coffey-criminal-charges-july-arrest

Well that's what I was trying to figure out, who is getting moved from these teams with 16+ guys with full NBA deals.

Might have missed one or two teams but here is who stuck out:

Memphis (17) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/cap/
Clippers (16) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/la-clippers/cap/
Spurs (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/
Okc (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/

So generally the decision for these teams (barring trades obviously) is whether to keep a very mediocre vet on an expiring contract or an under performing recent draft pick.

A bunch of guys I mentioned prob don't get cut, but might be more on the bubble than they seem. For example, Covington got a ton of DNPs at the end of the year - Clips have the easiest decision they can cut Jason Preston (33rd overall pick in 2021) since he's ugtd. But if they get a guy to take a buy-out, they can save just as much or more $ and keep a guy that may have more utility after this year, so there's that on the other hand.

[Dogen]

Faried sucked when people thought he was good, no thanks lol.

I still can’t believe Garuba is sitting there, it’s almost as if teams don’t really value him.

I'd easily take Garuba, but remember we're looking to fill the 15th roster spot. Garuba may not be interested in such limited minutes.

Faried is a reclamation project, sort of like Jabari Parker was for us a few years back, and Giles is for Brooklyn now. There's a reason why vets like Faried are available. At that spot in the rotation we're taking a gamble that the guy can at least "un-suck" for a year. He'd be filling in spots when Rob and Al need a rest.

If Faried shows something, great, if not there will be options at the trade deadline. I'd take a look at Faried or Biyombo at this point. Biyombo is more of a sure thing, as far as being serviceable. Faried is a bigger risk, but for a third stringer looking to get back into the NBA, I'd bring him in for a workout, see if he still has the desire. Pure talent was never his game, but he still looks athletic enough to get after it for a few minutes a game.

[Hal14]

Looks like OKC, San Antonio, Memphis and LAC are a bunch of the teams that are going to have to move people due to roster size.

Edit: random and inaccurate list of guys that might get let go -

SA - Khem Birch, Reggie Bullock, Cedi Osman
Okc - discussed a bunch already
Memphis - Isaiah Todd (seems like a scrub but idk), someone else (I'd be vaguely interested in Kenny Lofton Jr.)
LAC - maybe Amir Coffee (didn't he just have legal issues?), Hyland or one of their old PFs like Covington or Morris.

My guess is they'd target a big who can shoot or pass since it seems like Blake is likely retiring, Birch is a fine minutes eater but he's too similar for Kornet to sign imo. I would've been interested in Javale if they were cutting Kornet but it's likely they won't, and he's going to Sacramento anyway

Also I don't think any of the Clippers guys you mention gets cut

Looks like OKC, San Antonio, Memphis and LAC are a bunch of the teams that are going to have to move people due to roster size.

Edit: random and inaccurate list of guys that might get let go -

SA - Khem Birch, Reggie Bullock, Cedi Osman
Okc - discussed a bunch already
Memphis - Isaiah Todd (seems like a scrub but idk), someone else (I'd be vaguely interested in Kenny Lofton Jr.)
LAC - maybe Amir Coffee (didn't he just have legal issues?), Hyland or one of their old PFs like Covington or Morris.

No way in hell Memphis waives Lofton. He had 42 points and 14 rebs in a game as a rookie.

And yes, Coffey is certainly in legal trouble:
https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-amir-coffey-criminal-charges-july-arrest

Well that's what I was trying to figure out, who is getting moved from these teams with 16+ guys with full NBA deals.

Might have missed one or two teams but here is who stuck out:

Memphis (17) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/cap/
Clippers (16) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/la-clippers/cap/
Spurs (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/
Okc (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/

So generally the decision for these teams (barring trades obviously) is whether to keep a very mediocre vet on an expiring contract or an under performing recent draft pick.

A bunch of guys I mentioned prob don't get cut, but might be more on the bubble than they seem. For example, Covington got a ton of DNPs at the end of the year - Clips have the easiest decision they can cut Jason Preston (33rd overall pick in 2021) since he's ugtd. But if they get a guy to take a buy-out, they can save just as much or more $ and keep a guy that may have more utility after this year, so there's that on the other hand.

Interesting. I didn't realize Memphis had 17 guys. I guess it's at least chance Lofton gets waived. I would definitely pick him up.

Lofton vs Garuba would be an interesting debate. Garuba is much better defensively but Lofton is much better offensively.

I would think they probably waive Christopher and Todd. Maybe they try and trade Ziaire Williams, who has not really shown much yet in his 2 seasons in the league.

[Bar Fight]

This is true...

Read on Twitter

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

[Hal14]

Faried sucked when people thought he was good, no thanks lol.

I still can’t believe Garuba is sitting there, it’s almost as if teams don’t really value him.

I'd easily take Garuba, but remember we're looking to fill the 15th roster spot. Garuba may not be interested in such limited minutes.

Faried is a reclamation project, sort of like Jabari Parker was for us a few years back, and Giles is for Brooklyn now. There's a reason why vets like Faried are available. At that spot in the rotation we're taking a gamble that the guy can at least "un-suck" for a year. He'd be filling in spots when Rob and Al need a rest.

If Faried shows something, great, if not there will be options at the trade deadline. I'd take a look at Faried or Biyombo at this point. Biyombo is more of a sure thing, as far as being serviceable. Faried is a bigger risk, but for a third stringer looking to get back into the NBA, I'd bring him in for a workout, see if he still has the desire. Pure talent was never his game, but he still looks athletic enough to get after it for a few minutes a game.

At this point I think I'm leaning towards Lamar Stevens for the 15th spot. Give him minutes at the 4 and hope you can get by with KP/rob/Al/Kornet at the 5. Grab someone who can play the 5 for that last 2-way spot.

Stevens would bolster our top 10 guys, which right now are a little bit weak. He'd potentially be a playoff contributor. Right now we have obviously a very good top 7 guys but lots of question marks with the rest of the roster. Lamar would probably be our 9th or 10th best player and would possibly get mins over Hauser if we wanted to go with more of a defensive guy in there, rather than a shooter. So that slides everyone else down a spot on the depth chart, making us a deeper team - rather than filling this 15th spot with someone who is worse than all of our other guys we have right now..

[165bows]

My guess is they'd target a big who can shoot or pass since it seems like Blake is likely retiring, Birch is a fine minutes eater but he's too similar for Kornet to sign imo. I would've been interested in Javale if they were cutting Kornet but it's likely they won't, and he's going to Sacramento anyway

Also I don't think any of the Clippers guys you mention gets cut

No way in hell Memphis waives Lofton. He had 42 points and 14 rebs in a game as a rookie.

And yes, Coffey is certainly in legal trouble:
https://clutchpoints.com/clippers-news-amir-coffey-criminal-charges-july-arrest

Well that's what I was trying to figure out, who is getting moved from these teams with 16+ guys with full NBA deals.

Might have missed one or two teams but here is who stuck out:

Memphis (17) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/memphis-grizzlies/cap/
Clippers (16) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/la-clippers/cap/
Spurs (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/
Okc (18) https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/

So generally the decision for these teams (barring trades obviously) is whether to keep a very mediocre vet on an expiring contract or an under performing recent draft pick.

A bunch of guys I mentioned prob don't get cut, but might be more on the bubble than they seem. For example, Covington got a ton of DNPs at the end of the year - Clips have the easiest decision they can cut Jason Preston (33rd overall pick in 2021) since he's ugtd. But if they get a guy to take a buy-out, they can save just as much or more $ and keep a guy that may have more utility after this year, so there's that on the other hand.

Interesting. I didn't realize Memphis had 17 guys. I guess it's at least chance Lofton gets waived. I would definitely pick him up.

Lofton vs Garuba would be an interesting debate. Garuba is much better defensively but Lofton is much better offensively.

I would think they probably waive Christopher and Todd. Maybe they try and trade Ziaire Williams, who has not really shown much yet in his 2 seasons in the league.

Agree those appear the most likely two guys from Memphis.

SA is the other one that really sticks out as their younger deep bench guys they pretty much just all signed - I'd think maybe Osman, Birch, and then someone else out of Bullock or Sandro Mamuk-whatever (who looked pretty good against Boston last summer league) or just make a trade somewhere.

[Curmudgeon]

Cedi Osman is not a bad player.

[Hal14]

This is true...

Read on Twitter

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Not really. Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

We're also not the favorites this season. Denver is:
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nba/finals-odds-championship-nba-betting-bm05/

Last season, out of 18 ESPN experts, 0 of them picked Boston to win the east. And only 3 of them even picked us to make the ECF:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34817879/nba-predictions-experts-picks-east-finals-west-finals-nba-finals-lebron-pursuit-history

Here's our preseason ranking among the league each of the past 3 seasons:
23-24: picked 2nd in league by Vegas odds
22-23: tied for 2nd
21-22: picked 13th in the league

Often times fans overrate their own team. Let's be realistic here. We don't have a top 3 player in the league. We don't have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. We don't have a hall of fame coach. We don't have anyone on our team who has ever won a ring before. We have a bunch of injury prone guys. Let's not be naive fanboys here and just think that we're some super team that is stacked with all-stars and future hall of famers. Let's not pretend that we're like some dynasty here with a core of guys who has already won the last 3 titles in a row. Jeez.

This is how old the best player and 2nd bet player for each recent title winning team was:
https://ibb.co/0tQvt5T

Tatum is 25 and JB is 26. As you can see, it pretty much never happens that a player who's 25 or under leads a team to a title and it's even more rare when that team's 2nd best player is 26 or under.

The championship window begins this season, imo. And even this season, it'll be tough:
-11 of the last 12 teams to win a title, had at least 1 guy on the team who had already won a title before that season. We have 0.
-The last 13 teams to win a title have all had at least 1 player who had an assist % of at least 30% that season. We have nobody who had an assist % of 30% or higher last season. The guy on our team who had the highest assist % last season was only at 21%.

Championship or bust was the 92-93 bulls. This celtics team is not that - not even close.

I've never seen a group of people with such high expectations for a team that has 0 guys on it who have ever won a title before and are led by a 25 and 26 yr old (no team in the last 20 yrs has won a title when led by a duo that is so young), has no one on the team who has ever won MVP and no one on the team who has ever even finished top 3 in MVP voting.

We've got a good team. We're one of the favorites. We're 1 of like 6 or so teams with a legit shot at winning it all. But let's not get carried away. Let's be realistic. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

[Dogen]

Faried sucked when people thought he was good, no thanks lol.

I still can’t believe Garuba is sitting there, it’s almost as if teams don’t really value him.

I'd easily take Garuba, but remember we're looking to fill the 15th roster spot. Garuba may not be interested in such limited minutes.

Faried is a reclamation project, sort of like Jabari Parker was for us a few years back, and Giles is for Brooklyn now. There's a reason why vets like Faried are available. At that spot in the rotation we're taking a gamble that the guy can at least "un-suck" for a year. He'd be filling in spots when Rob and Al need a rest.

If Faried shows something, great, if not there will be options at the trade deadline. I'd take a look at Faried or Biyombo at this point. Biyombo is more of a sure thing, as far as being serviceable. Faried is a bigger risk, but for a third stringer looking to get back into the NBA, I'd bring him in for a workout, see if he still has the desire. Pure talent was never his game, but he still looks athletic enough to get after it for a few minutes a game.

At this point I think I'm leaning towards Lamar Stevens for the 15th spot. Give him minutes at the 4 and hope you can get by with KP/rob/Al/Kornet at the 5. Grab someone who can play the 5 for that last 2-way spot.

Stevens would bolster our top 10 guys, which right now are a little bit weak. He'd potentially be a playoff contributor. Right now we have obviously a very good top 7 guys but lots of question marks with the rest of the roster. Lamar would probably be out 9th or 10th best player and would possibly get mins over Hauser if we wanted to go with more of a defensive guy in there, rather than a shooter. So that slides everyone else down a spot on the depth chart, making us a deeper team - rather than filling this 15th spot with someone who is worse than all of our other guys we have right now..

I was leaning towards Stevens for the 14th spot when I thought Svi was out of the running. Now Lamar is in that same category as Garuba, meaning "Would he want to sign here for such a limited role?"

Well, Svi saw the light, maybe Lamar will too. A legit chance for a ring can be persuasive.

Stevens is much better than Faried now, but is more of a SF/PF than a PF/C. Faried taller, but still undersized.

Manimal is basically my latest irrational NBA fantasy bachelor, what can I say? ¡Es mi hermano! I like the team to have a bonafide junk yard dog. Faried can help teach Walsh too: "Don't do what I did, kid!"

Watch on YouTube

C'mon guys, get on the Manimal bandwagon! I promise I won't ask for anything else until November (or until the next washed NBA puppy shows up in my youtube playlist).

[Shak_Celts]

Kenneth Faried? Chile i haven’t heard that name in a while. There was a point where i woulda said yes but something had to be up with his personality cause no one’s kept him around. Could also be because he’s basically a kanter, no place in this league.

Wait: “I don’t like to toot my own horn but i was a superstar in this league…” In the NBA? When??? Good player? Absolutely. Stop tooting that toot because the lie detector said…

[Dogen]

Kenneth Faried? Chile i haven’t heard that name in a while. There was a point where i woulda said yes but something had to be up with his personality cause no one’s kept him around. Could also be because he’s basically a kanter, no place in this league.

Wait: “I don’t like to toot my own horn but i was a superstar in this league…” In the NBA? When??? Good player? Absolutely. Stop tooting that toot because the lie detector said…

Et tu, Shak_Celts?

Well, you watched the video at least. That quote was.... taken out of context! No, it was pretty cringe. He was a marginal star for a couple of years though

I prefer the, "I'm extremely hungry, way hungrier than when I was younger" line.

Agree with the Freedom (né: Kanter) part of it. His game didn't evolve with the times. He even admits in this article how the Golden State phenomena changed his career. But, times keep changing.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/05/i-had-to-seek-therapy-what-happens-when-an-nba-career-ends-before-its-time

[Fierce1]

This is true...

Read on Twitter

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

[Bar Fight]

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

[Hal14]

Return to the NBA for Yabusele?

Read on Twitter

[Fierce1]

It's true the KP trade put the Cs in title or bust status.

Cs need to win a chip in the next 3 seasons.

The first window is from 2023 to 2026.
That's when only Jaylen is under contract for 2026-27.

We won't know for sure what the roster will look like in 2026-27.
If JT signs his extension after next season then the 2nd window will be from 2026 to 2030.

I find it hard to believe that Jayson Tatum and the Celtics will not get Banner 18 from 2024 to 2030.

Best case scenario is the Cs win 2 championships in the next 6 seasons.

[Bar Fight]

Not according to many on here. Some here please easy

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Not really. Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

We're also not the favorites this season. Denver is:
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nba/finals-odds-championship-nba-betting-bm05/

Last season, out of 18 ESPN experts, 0 of them picked Boston to win the east. And only 3 of them even picked us to make the ECF:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34817879/nba-predictions-experts-picks-east-finals-west-finals-nba-finals-lebron-pursuit-history

Here's our preseason ranking among the league each of the past 3 seasons:
23-24: picked 2nd in league by Vegas odds
22-23: tied for 2nd
21-22: picked 13th in the league

Often times fans overrate their own team. Let's be realistic here. We don't have a top 3 player in the league. We don't have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. We don't have a hall of fame coach. We don't have anyone on our team who has ever won a ring before. We have a bunch of injury prone guys. Let's not be naive fanboys here and just think that we're some super team that is stacked with all-stars and future hall of famers. Let's not pretend that we're like some dynasty here with a core of guys who has already won the last 3 titles in a row. Jeez.

This is how old the best player and 2nd bet player for each recent title winning team was:
https://ibb.co/0tQvt5T

Tatum is 25 and JB is 26. As you can see, it pretty much never happens that a player who's 25 or under leads a team to a title and it's even more rare when that team's 2nd best player is 26 or under.

The championship window begins this season, imo. And even this season, it'll be tough:
-11 of the last 12 teams to win a title, had at least 1 guy on the team who had already won a title before that season. We have 0.
-The last 13 teams to win a title have all had at least 1 player who had an assist % of at least 30% that season. We have nobody who had an assist % of 30% or higher last season. The guy on our team who had the highest assist % last season was only at 21%.

Championship or bust was the 92-93 bulls. This celtics team is not that - not even close.

I've never seen a group of people with such high expectations for a team that has 0 guys on it who have ever won a title before and are led by a 25 and 26 yr old (no team in the last 20 yrs has won a title when led by a duo that is so young), has no one on the team who has ever won MVP and no one on the team who has ever even finished top 3 in MVP voting.

We've got a good team. We're one of the favorites. We're 1 of like 6 or so teams with a legit shot at winning it all. But let's not get carried away. Let's be realistic. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

[Fierce1]

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

Yeah, but the favorites are picked before the season starts.

Just like what some Celtic fans are doing right now.

If the Cs are favorites now but are not statistically favored going into the playoffs then does that mean they are not favorites to win it all next season?

Because if we based it on the 2nd half of the season then that means the Celts were not favorites to win it all last season because the Cs were just above average after that 18-4 start.

[Hal14]

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

Many experts/analysts were picking us to lose in the 1st round to the Nets.

Again, Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

[Bar Fight]

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

Yeah, but the favorites are picked before the season starts.

Just like what some Celtic fans are doing right now.

If the Cs are favorites now but are not statistically favored going into the playoffs then does that mean they are not favorites to win it all next season?

Because if we based it on the 2nd half of the season then that means the Celts were not favorites to win it all last season because the Cs were just above average after that 18-4 start.

Yeah, if something drastic happens in the season to change the odds then you take that into account. The '22 season is forgivable because they were young/had never experienced the Finals. The '23 season was inexcusable. Nothing can convince me this team had ANY business losing to the Miami Heat.

Even with the drop off after the hot start. They were overwhelming favorites over Miami and lost in one of the biggest upsets in the history of our franchise.