Free Agent, Trade, Buyout, Extension & Conversion Thread, 2025 con't

[playa-hater]

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan Harper could be another Cade Cunningham Type-player you absolutely attempt to trade Brown for him.

Does it really matter if he's ready in his first or a second year to lead?..You don't pass on great talent if you have a chance to get it.

I am not sure if I will put him equal to cade Cunningham, but I certainly think he's on the same tier

[165bows]

Not too many sellers on the horizon this offseason so far. Goes without saying but the big names potentially on the move being Giannis, Durant and the Markkanen discussion from the other thread makes sense.

But the number of teams potentially looking to buy/improve that are really mediocre is pretty surprising. Eg New Orleans (seems a great candidate to do something dumb and/or move the 7th pick), Detroit starts to make some sense, but also teams like Portland and Toronto going win now? Doesn’t seem like enough good players available high-end and medium-end for all these mediocre teams’ appetites.

I don’t have a good hand in what’s going to happen yet but I trust Brad to make the right moves and come out ahead. It is funny though that this situation and the health outlook makes anything from a pretty deep tank season to a go for it now trade all on the table.

[165bows]

It’s been mentioned before about the drastic weighting of who owns the league’s first round picks - but it looks like it will really affect the tanking market in this premium draft coming up.

Ie normally older teams that fall short can blow it up and tank but having Milwaukee Philly and Phoenix (Atlanta to a lesser extent) being the epitome of that situation they’ve boxed themselves out of tanking. Doesn’t mean they won’t suck but as a strategy to employ its lost on them.

[165bows]

They're not trading for a top-5 pick. It's fun discussion but it ain't happening.

What are you talking about?

Celtics are going to get a Top 5 pick, trade for Giannis and get the Nets to take Porzingis and Holiday into their cap space for nothing. Please get with the program.

Edit: I'll go out on a limb and say none of those three things will happen.

The Giannis to Toronto talk is hilarious. They could do the Barnes/Barrett/picks deal and Toronto would still be worse than if Boston traded for Giannis with both Brown and Tatum going out.

I kind of want to see that, would wreck both Milwaukee and Toronto for five years.

[NotAKnicksFan]

We reallly need an insider to provide some sort of blue print as people are losing their minds

Calling Celticsthug!!

What an era that was , almost 20 years ago

[165bows]

My take after some sporadic ******* around on this tonight.

I don’t think the Celtics are paying to dump guys this summer. Not that they won’t have to move off guys but I think the demand will be there that aren’t the ones paying. Take the following:

There are a ton of teams that are reported to want to compete that aren’t that good. Combined with a bunch of teams that can’t feasibly tank there will be a strong sellers market for mid-tier (non-star, non-scrub) talent.

I’ve been wrong before but I’ve been right a lot of times before too and I feel pretty good about this one going in the win pile.

[keevsnick1]

Realistically, the trade packages being discussed for Jrue and KP so far have been pretty underwhelming. If you remove both of them and replace them with lesser players, is this even still a championship contender? I just don’t see a clear path next year, especially if you keep Brown. The only way they remain true contenders is if they bring back the same core — and that would mean paying a massive luxury tax bill, which seems unlikely.

Don’t get me wrong — I’d like to keep Brown. But you have to ask: what does this roster look like in 3-4 years? You’re potentially looking at an aging Jaylen Brown and Tatum coming off a serious Achilles injury. That’s why if a team comes in and gets desperate, offering a top-2 pick for Brown, I don’t hesitate to pull the trigger. It’s hard, but probably the smarter long-term move.

If you are trading Brown primarily for draft picks then imo you might as well trade Tatum too. People always underestimate the amount of time it takes draft picks to truly contribute to high level basketball.

Even picks who are "good" right away at age 19-20 don't typically hit their winning prime until at least 23 years of age. Tatum was very impactful as a rookie but he didn't really reach his prime until about his 4th season. And that's really as early as it happens for these guys, Jaylen Williams has been really good for the Thunder in his 3rd year, but he was also an older rookie and is 24.

If you pick a 19-year-old chances are you are waiting 4 years before he's really, truly ready to be a #2 on a title team. So you are just burning those years of Tatum's prime. And there's no guarantee anybody you draft EVER even gets there. Here are the #2 picks going back the last 17 years:

-Alex Sarr -> Might be good, too soon to say.
-Brandon Miller-> Might be good, too soon to say.
-Chet Holgren-> Is good but injury prone.
-Jalen Green-> Been a bust so far, high usage chucker.
-James Wiseman-> Huge bust
-Ja Morant-> Good, but not a guy you want to build a team around.
-Marvin Bagley-> Huge bust
-Lonzo Ball-> Bust
-Brandon Ingram-> One time all star now on his 3rd team.
-DeAngelo Russel-> One time all star jounryeman.
-Jabari Parker-> Bust
-Victor Oladipo-> Two time all star who flamed out too young.
-Michael Kid-Gilchrist- Bust
-Derick Williams-> Bust
-Evan Turner-> Fine career, not a star.
-Hasheem Thabeet-> Bust
-Mmichael Beasley-> Bust

How many of those guys who you trade Jaylen Brown for knowing how their careers turned out or how they look so far? Not many. Of those guys the only guy I'd maybe take over Jaylen is Chet, but injuries could derail that.

Trading know all-star level guys for draft pick packages is a rebuilding move, its a move you make when you know you have multiple years of being bad to boost your own draft stock. Its far, far too risky to do when you rebuilding window is one year.

First off

Dylan has something that, as far as I know, no one above has, an NBA allstar/champion father

Secondly, who needs Dylan to be the number 2 option immediately?

Assuming Celtics traded Brown and Traded Jrue and traded Kristaps....Harper would STILL be the 3rd option. And that is ignoring that the team brings in NOTHING of worth outside of Harper himself.


The proposed trades bring in Vassell would be 2nd/3rd option behind Tatum and probably White (assuming Brown for Vassell and #2) and he also would be behind Washington (assuming Jrue for PJ Washington and Gafford)

You are immediately expecting that a rooking would be the #2 option right off the bat, and that is not the case at all.

A rookie would be expected to step up bigtime in 2 or 3 years....not day one.

I'm not saying he needs to be the #2 immediately, but realistically the likes of Vassel, White, ect aren't good enough and never will be good enough to be a #2 on a title team. That means whomever you draft with #2 needs to become that, and truth is that likely to take a minimum of 4 years.

[Celts17Pride]

They're not trading for a top-5 pick. It's fun discussion but it ain't happening.

What are you talking about?

Celtics are going to get a Top 5 pick, trade for Giannis and get the Nets to take Porzingis and Holiday into their cap space for nothing. Please get with the program.

Edit: I'll go out on a limb and say none of those three things will happen.

The Giannis to Toronto talk is hilarious. They could do the Barnes/Barrett/picks deal and Toronto would still be worse than if Boston traded for Giannis with both Brown and Tatum going out.

I kind of want to see that, would wreck both Milwaukee and Toronto for five years.

Raptors can do Barnes/Agbaji/Dick/Walter/Mogbo and 4 first round picks for Giannis, Connaughton. That's not too bad if Milwaukee is completely starting over, Barnes, young players and 4 first rounders. I think this only happens if Giannis tells Milwaukee that's where he wants to go.

Toronto would have Quickley, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl, Connaughton. Shead and then pray for rain.

[Celts17Pride]

I'm not saying he needs to be the #2 immediately, but realistically the likes of Vassel, White, ect aren't good enough and never will be good enough to be a #2 on a title team. That means whomever you draft with #2 needs to become that, and truth is that likely to take a minimum of 4 years.

In other words, it makes no sense unless you are moving Tatum and White too.

[keevsnick1]

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan hopper could be another Cade Cunningham. Type player you absolutely attempt to trade brown for him.

Does it really matter if he's ready in his first or a second year too lead...You don't pass on great talent if you have a chance to get it.

I am not sure if I will put him equal to cade cunningham, but I certainly think he's on the same tier

Actually, no you don't. When you are a contending team, which is what you are with Tatum/Brown, you don't trade one of those guys for a high draft pick when both are still in their prime. Because even if you "feel" a guy will eventually be good the keys is he very well might not be, and almost definitely won't be immediately.

People treat these prospects as sure things; they very much are not. The first pick is usually very good, but once you get past that things drop of quickly. i looked up the outcomes of picks 2-5 for the 2006-2021 drafts (22-24 are too early to tell). But of those 18 years the and the 72 players picked 2-5 in those drafts only 28 went on to make at least one all-star team. Thats a 38% chance to get a guy who makes at least one all-star team.

[playa-hater]

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan hopper could be another Cade Cunningham. Type player you absolutely attempt to trade brown for him.

Does it really matter if he's ready in his first or a second year too lead...You don't pass on great talent if you have a chance to get it.

I am not sure if I will put him equal to cade cunningham, but I certainly think he's on the same tier

Actually, no you don't. When you are a contending team, which is what you are with Tatum/Brown, you don't trade one of those guys for a high draft pick when both are still in their prime. Because even if you "feel" a guy will eventually be good the keys is he very well might not be, and almost definitely won't be immediately.

People treat these prospects as sure things; they very much are not. The first pick is usually very good, but once you get past that things drop of quickly. i looked up the outcomes of picks 2-5 for the 2006-2021 drafts (22-24 are too early to tell). But of those 18 years the and the 72 players picked 2-5 in those drafts only 28 went on to make at least one all-star team. Thats a 38% chance to get a guy who makes at least one all-star team.

So based on your philosophy, you wouldn't have traded Brown for rookie Cade Cunningham? Yet Cade is turning out to be an MVP level player already, all while making far less money. My point is taking one step back to take 2 or 3 steps forward is well worth it. Now all this only matters if You believe Harper can be that good. Certainly not a sure thing, but taking the right gamble can pay huge dividends.

[keevsnick1]

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan hopper could be another Cade Cunningham. Type player you absolutely attempt to trade brown for him.

Does it really matter if he's ready in his first or a second year too lead...You don't pass on great talent if you have a chance to get it.

I am not sure if I will put him equal to cade cunningham, but I certainly think he's on the same tier

Actually, no you don't. When you are a contending team, which is what you are with Tatum/Brown, you don't trade one of those guys for a high draft pick when both are still in their prime. Because even if you "feel" a guy will eventually be good the keys is he very well might not be, and almost definitely won't be immediately.

People treat these prospects as sure things; they very much are not. The first pick is usually very good, but once you get past that things drop of quickly. i looked up the outcomes of picks 2-5 for the 2006-2021 drafts (22-24 are too early to tell). But of those 18 years the and the 72 players picked 2-5 in those drafts only 28 went on to make at least one all-star team. Thats a 38% chance to get a guy who makes at least one all-star team.

So based on your philosophy, you wouldn't have traded Brown for rookie Cade Cunningham? Yet Cade is turning out to be an MVP level player already, all while making far less money. My point is taking one step back to take 2 or 3 steps forward is well worth it. Now all this only matters if You believe Harper can be that good. Certainly not a sure thing, but taking the right gamble can pay huge dividends.

No, I would not have, not at the time of his drafting. First off, the idea that Cade is "turning out to be an MVP level player already" is insane over hype. He made all-NBA third team, let's take a breath. Secondly thanks to that he's going to make 46 million next year, that's only 8 million less than Jaylen will make. Hardly "making far less money."

Besides those caveats, Cade will be good for a long time. But the point is YOU DON'T KNOW THAT at the time of the draft. He was a #1 pick, the Celtics won't be trading for a #1 pick, they'd be trading Jaylen for something like #2-#10, which as I pointed out has a pretty low success rate, even at the low of bar of ever making a single all-star team. You might get a Cade level player, but the odds are higher you get a Michael Beasley, a James Wiseman or a some fine but unremarkable rotation guy.

[djFan71]

Taking $ savings and number of trades to the extreme... I'm not sure I'd do it, but if both guys pan out, it's a coup.

In: Lonzo, Marshall, 27, SAC 26 2nd, CHA 27 2nd, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK) from DET, $56.5M in savings
Out: Jrue, KP, Hauser, Tillman, 28

This is getting 2 young-ish players (both 27) I really like, adding some future 2nd round picks, and moving up 1 spot in this draft.
Plenty of space to resign Al and Kornet while still being under the tax. Probably another vet as well.

Lonzo has the knee risk, but he's a great defender / passer / 3pt shooter when healthy. Great buy low due to the injury risk.
Marshall same premise - buy low now before he busts out. Hope this year's shooting was the anomaly, not 23-24.


White, Pritchard, Brown, Horford, Kornet
Lonzo, Baylor, Walsh, Marshall, Queta
27, JD, 32, vet FA
* Tatum

Won't win a ton as is, but with Tatum back, that's a contender again. Esp if Baylor, 28 or vet FA amount to anything.

Obviously won't happen, but I did all the math, so look in the spoiler if you're crazy enough to. Depending on what Luke/Al sign for you don't even have to do the Hauser part.

Spoiler:

Trade 1
------------
BOS in: Gafford, Marshall, Mann, Niang
BOS out: Jrue, KP, Tillman

DAL in: Jrue, Tillman
DAL out: Gafford, Marshall, Martin

ATL in: KP, Martin
ATL out: Mann, Niang

Saves $18.5M


Trade 2
-----------
Hauser to SAC for SAC 26 2nd, CHA 27 2nd
Saves $10 M

Trade 3
--------
BOS in: Lonzo, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK)
BOS out: Mann, Niang, 28

CHI in: Mann, Fontecchio, 28
CHI out: Lonzo

DET in: Niang
DET out: Fontecchio, 2029 2nd (worse of MIL, NYK)
Saves $13.7M

Bulls sell on Lonzo and get a pick
Pistons get a tough vet for same $

Trade 4
-------
BKN in: Knecht, Vanderbilt
BKN out: 27

LAL in: Gafford
LAL out: Knecht, Vanderbilt

BOS in: 27
BOS out: Gafford
Saves $14.3M

Lakers get Luka's lob threat / off Vanderbilt contract.
BKN gets Knecht and eats salary that doesn't matter for one of their redundant picks.

[djFan71]

Sneaky next move is sign KP to full MLE next summer.

[Larry_Russell]

If you are trading Brown primarily for draft picks then imo you might as well trade Tatum too. People always underestimate the amount of time it takes draft picks to truly contribute to high level basketball.

Even picks who are "good" right away at age 19-20 don't typically hit their winning prime until at least 23 years of age. Tatum was very impactful as a rookie but he didn't really reach his prime until about his 4th season. And that's really as early as it happens for these guys, Jaylen Williams has been really good for the Thunder in his 3rd year, but he was also an older rookie and is 24.

If you pick a 19-year-old chances are you are waiting 4 years before he's really, truly ready to be a #2 on a title team. So you are just burning those years of Tatum's prime. And there's no guarantee anybody you draft EVER even gets there. Here are the #2 picks going back the last 17 years:

-Alex Sarr -> Might be good, too soon to say.
-Brandon Miller-> Might be good, too soon to say.
-Chet Holgren-> Is good but injury prone.
-Jalen Green-> Been a bust so far, high usage chucker.
-James Wiseman-> Huge bust
-Ja Morant-> Good, but not a guy you want to build a team around.
-Marvin Bagley-> Huge bust
-Lonzo Ball-> Bust
-Brandon Ingram-> One time all star now on his 3rd team.
-DeAngelo Russel-> One time all star jounryeman.
-Jabari Parker-> Bust
-Victor Oladipo-> Two time all star who flamed out too young.
-Michael Kid-Gilchrist- Bust
-Derick Williams-> Bust
-Evan Turner-> Fine career, not a star.
-Hasheem Thabeet-> Bust
-Mmichael Beasley-> Bust

How many of those guys who you trade Jaylen Brown for knowing how their careers turned out or how they look so far? Not many. Of those guys the only guy I'd maybe take over Jaylen is Chet, but injuries could derail that.

Trading know all-star level guys for draft pick packages is a rebuilding move, its a move you make when you know you have multiple years of being bad to boost your own draft stock. Its far, far too risky to do when you rebuilding window is one year.

First off

Dylan has something that, as far as I know, no one above has, an NBA allstar/champion father

Secondly, who needs Dylan to be the number 2 option immediately?

Assuming Celtics traded Brown and Traded Jrue and traded Kristaps....Harper would STILL be the 3rd option. And that is ignoring that the team brings in NOTHING of worth outside of Harper himself.


The proposed trades bring in Vassell would be 2nd/3rd option behind Tatum and probably White (assuming Brown for Vassell and #2) and he also would be behind Washington (assuming Jrue for PJ Washington and Gafford)

You are immediately expecting that a rooking would be the #2 option right off the bat, and that is not the case at all.

A rookie would be expected to step up bigtime in 2 or 3 years....not day one.

I'm not saying he needs to be the #2 immediately, but realistically the likes of Vassel, White, ect aren't good enough and never will be good enough to be a #2 on a title team. That means whomever you draft with #2 needs to become that, and truth is that likely to take a minimum of 4 years.

Vassell and wgite both have the potential to be...but evem if they both are 3rd level guys....a 1 and 2 elite 3s is better than a 1 and a 2 and a drop off to a 3.

Sum of the parts.

[Larry_Russell]

Actually, no you don't. When you are a contending team, which is what you are with Tatum/Brown, you don't trade one of those guys for a high draft pick when both are still in their prime. Because even if you "feel" a guy will eventually be good the keys is he very well might not be, and almost definitely won't be immediately.

People treat these prospects as sure things; they very much are not. The first pick is usually very good, but once you get past that things drop of quickly. i looked up the outcomes of picks 2-5 for the 2006-2021 drafts (22-24 are too early to tell). But of those 18 years the and the 72 players picked 2-5 in those drafts only 28 went on to make at least one all-star team. Thats a 38% chance to get a guy who makes at least one all-star team.

So based on your philosophy, you wouldn't have traded Brown for rookie Cade Cunningham? Yet Cade is turning out to be an MVP level player already, all while making far less money. My point is taking one step back to take 2 or 3 steps forward is well worth it. Now all this only matters if You believe Harper can be that good. Certainly not a sure thing, but taking the right gamble can pay huge dividends.

No, I would not have, not at the time of his drafting. First off, the idea that Cade is "turning out to be an MVP level player already" is insane over hype. He made all-NBA third team, let's take a breath. Secondly thanks to that he's going to make 46 million next year, that's only 8 million less than Jaylen will make. Hardly "making far less money."

Besides those caveats, Cade will be good for a long time. But the point is YOU DON'T KNOW THAT at the time of the draft. He was a #1 pick, the Celtics won't be trading for a #1 pick, they'd be trading Jaylen for something like #2-#10, which as I pointed out has a pretty low success rate, even at the low of bar of ever making a single all-star team. You might get a Cade level player, but the odds are higher you get a Michael Beasley, a James Wiseman or a some fine but unremarkable rotation guy.

We dont know that Brown will be good moving forward either.

Brown took an obvious step back this season there is as good of a chance that can continue as not.

Cade going up
Brown going down.

Obviously a gamble.

[Larry_Russell]

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan hopper could be another Cade Cunningham. Type player you absolutely attempt to trade brown for him.

Does it really matter if he's ready in his first or a second year too lead...You don't pass on great talent if you have a chance to get it.

I am not sure if I will put him equal to cade cunningham, but I certainly think he's on the same tier

Actually, no you don't. When you are a contending team, which is what you are with Tatum/Brown, you don't trade one of those guys for a high draft pick when both are still in their prime. Because even if you "feel" a guy will eventually be good the keys is he very well might not be, and almost definitely won't be immediately.

People treat these prospects as sure things; they very much are not. The first pick is usually very good, but once you get past that things drop of quickly. i looked up the outcomes of picks 2-5 for the 2006-2021 drafts (22-24 are too early to tell). But of those 18 years the and the 72 players picked 2-5 in those drafts only 28 went on to make at least one all-star team. Thats a 38% chance to get a guy who makes at least one all-star team.

Team isnt a contending team anymore and might not be.....that ks your problem...
believng it is.

[Deivork]

Just read on REALGM that Giannis and Toronto have mutual interest.

Maybe it will really be a wild off-season.

I don't buy it. I believe it to be Bucks pressure to up the price for the Spurs and other bidders.

[Fierce1]

Just read on REALGM that Giannis and Toronto have mutual interest.

Maybe it will really be a wild off-season.

I don't buy it. I believe it to be Bucks pressure to up the price for the Spurs and other bidders.

I'm not really focused on the Giannis part.

It's the wild off-season that I'm looking forward to.

[Larry_Russell]

I want either Giannis or Harper and Vassell.

And I think I get my wish this offseason.


If you can add Giannis to a trio of KP, White, Tatum while keeping Pritchard and maybe resigning Horford.

That team is absolutely a legit threat for the title for the next 3 or 4 years.

Pritchard
White
Tatum
Giannis
KP

LETHAL team that would have vet mins RUNNING to sign with them.