The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[SMTBSI]

What if he blows out a knee?

Also, "a couple of seconds" is hardly the worst case. Consider for example Chicago dumping Kirk Hinrich or Phoenix dumping Kurt Thomas.

Yes, him getting injured or suddenly sharply dropping off would be bad. I'm not overly worried about either as he's pretty ironmanish, but the risk is always there.

Barring injury, I really do believe you would not have a lot of trouble finding someone to take him for free. But, you're right that there is a much worse case than I suggested.

[jrob23]

Yeah, a center can be "inherently more valuable", but you all clearly don't recognize Smart's impact and his potential. He's not the piece you deal for a center.

I could say you "clearly don't recognize Nurkic's impact or potential" as well. I love Smart and get he's a very valuable piece who hasn't fully reached his potential. But big men with offensive game are rare and despite the value we get from Smart, we have resources to take his place whereas our big men after KO and AH are very average. Nurkic would be a huge upgrade on the 2nd unit or even as starter to push AH to PF. The problem with this whole scenario is that there's no chance DEN even wants Smart as they've got Mudiay and Murray locked up for a few years on cheap deals and they are the future, plus they also have Gary Harris starting. It's not a match.

Are you getting Nurkic's offensive game confused with Jokic's offensive game?

no, he's 22 y/o and has some back to the basket moves and can hit midrange shots. They like him enough to start him and move Jokic to PF. He's still pretty raw though and I'm wondering if DEN will sign him or just see what they can get for him. DEN has too many bigs and it's actually a problem for them. Like PHI they've got to move someone.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I could say you "clearly don't recognize Nurkic's impact or potential" as well. I love Smart and get he's a very valuable piece who hasn't fully reached his potential. But big men with offensive game are rare and despite the value we get from Smart, we have resources to take his place whereas our big men after KO and AH are very average. Nurkic would be a huge upgrade on the 2nd unit or even as starter to push AH to PF. The problem with this whole scenario is that there's no chance DEN even wants Smart as they've got Mudiay and Murray locked up for a few years on cheap deals and they are the future, plus they also have Gary Harris starting. It's not a match.

Are you getting Nurkic's offensive game confused with Jokic's offensive game?

no, he's 22 y/o and has some back to the basket moves and can hit midrange shots. They like him enough to start him and move Jokic to PF. He's still pretty raw though and I'm wondering if DEN will sign him or just see what they can get for him. DEN has too many bigs and it's actually a problem for them. Like PHI they've got to move someone.

Yeah, it's interesting, reminds me of the trade deadline when we got IT- he, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knight and Michael Carter-Williams all got dealt, the Heat added Dragic, and we started it all off by dealing Rondo.

Between Jokic, Nurkic, and Okafor looking for more minutes, Noel and Len heading into restricted free agency, plus Koufos/Cousins/Cauley-Stein in Sacramento, Bogut's expiring, Amir's expiring, Monroe's expiring.. plus Mahinmi/Gortat in Washington, and Biyombo/Vucevic in Orlando... and Kanter, Lopez and Whiteside all getting big money, either overpaid for their minutes or on lottery teams... If we're lucky and smart, we can do ok.

[Green89]

Gortat just called his bench one of the worst in the NBA. Dude sounds like he wants out.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Gortat's age and salary aren't a great combination.

[ddb]

Gortat's age and salary aren't a great combination.

agreed. I wanted Gortat back when we still had KG, Pierce and Rondo. That ship has sailed. Although, he is a solid player, Gortat is no longer the guy we should want.

Ainge isn't going to sacrifice his projected cap space for a player like Gortat that only marginally moves the needle. This current Celtics team will be just fine once healthy. Ainge will address the rebounding issues in an appropriate manner at the right time. I'm not even worried about it

[pasfru]

Not to overreact or anything... but we're definitely getting both Anthony Davis and Klay Thompson.

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[OFWGKTA]

Has Scal been known to throw randoms trade rumors out there like this? Apparently the rumor is as follows:

-3 way deal involving GS/Boston/Philly involving Noel, Crowder, AB, Brooklyn Pick and Klay.
-Boston would get Klay.
-GSW would get Noel and one of Crowder/AB.
-76'ers would get Brooklyn pick and other of Crowder/AB.

I don't see how Noel is worth any one of Crowder, AB, Brooklyn pick, let alone two of those assets. I'd be fine with AB/Brooklyn pick for Klay. I imagine Scal has ties to GSW from his time coaching there. Philly should accept a deal like(the leaked offer for #3 this past draft was Noel/Covington/those two picks in the 20s for #3 right?):

Celtics out:
AB
BRK17
Young

In:
Klay

Philly out:
Noel
Covington

Philly in:
BRK17
Young

GSW out:
Klay

GSW in:
AB
Noel
Covington

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Interesting. Scal has connections with both the Celtics' and Warriors' front offices. Klay being unhappy was already a rumor reported by ddb. The fact that the Warriors leave him in the game when they're up big in the 4th quarter, just so he can pad his stats, is something that Klay doesn't look too happy about just based on his body language. Bradley is going to be due for a huge payday, and will probably ask for more than what Klay Thompson is being paid. The question now becomes - how much sweetner do the Celtics throw to the Warriors? Do we really want to help them build their dynasty by giving them lottery picks?

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Has Scal been known to throw randoms trade rumors out there like this? Apparently the rumor is as follows:

-3 way deal involving GS/Boston/Philly involving Noel, Crowder, AB, Brooklyn Pick and Klay.
-Boston would get Klay.
-GSW would get Noel and one of Crowder/AB.
-76'ers would get Brooklyn pick and other of Crowder/AB.

Hmmm...interesting.

So that leaves the Cs with a lineup of:

Isaiah/Smart/Klay/Horford/Amir, with a bench of Rozier/Brown/Olynyk/Young/Green......and we still get to keep a Nets pick. Hmmm......looking at the deal again - holy cow - the Sixers make out like bandits in this trade. They're going to get a starter and lottery pick for their 3rd, maybe 4th best big?

[pasfru]

Philly dominate that trade and Boston gets fleeced, not a fan.

Essentially AB/Crowder + a Brooklyn pick for Noel. That's terrible for us.

[Banks2Pierce]

Hmmm......looking at the deal again - holy cow - the Sixers make out like bandits in this trade. They're going to get a starter and lottery pick for their 3rd, maybe 4th best big?

Yeah, I'd want RoCo in this deal. Philly is cleaning up. Even if it's '18 BKN, which I'd expect.

[GoCeltics123]

BS I don't believe this for a second. Why would GS break up their core?

[Edug27]

Gortat's age and salary aren't a great combination.

agreed. I wanted Gortat back when we still had KG, Pierce and Rondo. That ship has sailed. Although, he is a solid player, Gortat is no longer the guy we should want.

Ainge isn't going to sacrifice his projected cap space for a player like Gortat that only marginally moves the needle. This current Celtics team will be just fine once healthy. Ainge will address the rebounding issues in an appropriate manner at the right time. I'm not even worried about it

Well you may not be worried about it, but I'm sure Brad and Danny are. I agree Gortat may not be the answer, but rebounding and interior defense will be a serious issue for this team whether Horford and Crowder are healthy or not. It will be addressed. You don't invest 100+ mil in a player if you aren't committed to putting the best talent around him. That being said, Danny isn't going to make a bad move just for the sake of, of course. But I'm sure he's earning his paycheck looking for answers.

[Banks2Pierce]

BS I don't believe this for a second. Why would GS break up their core?

If Klay's unhappy behind the scenes, I could see it. Zaza is also looking shot. Cleveland's bigs are relentless at punishing bad rebounding teams. If they could reproduce 80% of Klay and get a legit C, I can see why it's being considered.

[Edug27]

BS I don't believe this for a second. Why would GS break up their core?

It's your typical Celtics rumor that people on the board add fuel too and everyone buys in. Wash rinse repeat. Zero chance GS moves Klay. For this to even be a conversation, GS would have to collapse in the playoffs while Klay struggles. Then maybe in this offseason you have a topic.

[Banks2Pierce]

It's your typical Celtics rumor that people on the board add fuel too and everyone buys in. Wash rinse repeat. Zero chance GS moves Klay. For this to even be a conversation, GS would have to collapse in the playoffs while Klay struggles. Then maybe in this offseason you have a topic.

I don't know. Scal's the source. He's flying with the team right now. Would he risk his rep with the team for more notoriety for getting show appearances? I'd have to get more information.

[ddb]

Interesting. Scal has connections with both the Celtics' and Warriors' front offices. Klay being unhappy was already a rumor reported by ddb. The fact that the Warriors leave him in the game when they're up big in the 4th quarter, just so he can pad his stats, is something that Klay doesn't look too happy about just based on his body language. Bradley is going to be due for a huge payday, and will probably ask for more than what Klay Thompson is being paid. The question now becomes - how much sweetner do the Celtics throw to the Warriors? Do we really want to help them build their dynasty by giving them lottery picks?

Just to clarify what I heard. I heard it was most likely an offseason initiative for the Warriors, and that Klay wasn't too thrilled about his role on the team any longer.

I would imagine that IF these rumors picked up any steam it would be for the few reasons below.

#1- Bradley has seemingly taken yet another leap in his game and the Warriors have taken notice
#2- Warriors realize they need more RIM protection. Best way to find 1 is by facilitating a big trade around the 1 guy they know is being professional, but deep down isn't too thrilled with his current role on team
#3- BK is off to a decent start and Danny may be getting a little bit concerned that this pick may not be as golden and it was projected to be. I personally think it'll be Top 5, but does Danny want another young player on the team? probably not. he is being patient but ultimately his top priority is landing established talent.

Warriors Celtics make sense as trade partners IF Golden State is open about shaking things up in season. If they decide to go in season then it is better to do it sooner rather than later.

I think a 3-team trade could make sense. Again, all depends on the Warriors. I think the Celtics are ready to deal at any point in time for a star player they value.

There are a couple 3rd teams to keep an eye on. Phoenix, Philly. Also, Boston could deal directly with Golden State and Golden State could then flip the BK pick for a RIM protector in a separate deal later...Or just keep the pick. why not. Their core is young

[CelticsLV]

LMAO! I was sticking together 3 team deal with Sixers myself when i read rumor. Almost like the rumored one.

[Zaschrona]

With new CBA coming it is quite clear we have plus minus that available cap space for a maximum FA if we keep all our currently signed players minus Zeller and give KO his QO. Adding Noel would hurt us quite a lot especially if new CBA really changes cap holds of unsigned RFAs from 250% to 300%. 50% higher rookie scale contracts are going to hurt us as well.

Because of that I think Noel or Len are bad targets for us unless we make a bigger trade than only adding them for picks - they would hurt our cap space for Griffin/Hayward/Millsap quite a lot. I think we should try to get either Nurkic or Jokic from Denver or Richaun Holmes from Phila. Unless we make a trade for a big name that would be worth it to hurt our cap space - Cousins, Davis, Whiteside, I don't think these upcoming RFAs are good targets for us.

Maybe something like this on deadline if Brooklyn pick looks good for top 5 and Sacramento struggles once again?
BOS trades: Jaylen Brown, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, Tyler Zeller, Terry Rozier, Jordan Mickey, 2017 BKN pick, 2018 BKN pick, 2017 MIN 2nd, 2019 LAC pick, 2019 MEM pick, 2019 BOS pick (unprotected)
BOS receives: DeMarcus Cousins, Rudy Gay, Nerlens Noel, Darren Collison
SAC trades: DeMarcus Cousins, Rudy Gay, Darren Collison, Ben McLemore
SAC receives: Jahlil Okafor, Jaylen Brown, Amir Johnson, Terry Rozier, Jordan Mickey, gets back all picks and pick swaps, 2018 BKN pick, 2017 MIN 2nd, 2019 LAC pick
PHI trades: Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, gives Sacramento back all picks and pick swaps
PHI receives: Tyler Zeller, Jonas Jerebko, Ben McLemore, 2017 BKN pick, 2019 MEM pick, 2019 BOS pick (unprotected)

IT/Collison/Jackson
AB/Smart/Young
Gay/Crowder/Green
Horford/Olynyk/FA
Cousins/Noel/FA

Then re-sign Collison, Gay, Olynyk, Noel and offer early extensions to IT, AB, Smart and Cousins. Bring here Yabusele and Zizic, bring here ring-chasers to fill-out the bench and give it a go against LeBron boys.