Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[Hal14]

They already entered championship or bust mode last year. Last season was unquestionably a bust. All that “unfinished business” nonsense just to lose to a significantly less talented team with three home losses in the series.

They are favored again to win this season. If they don’t get it done that’s three straight years of losing as the favorites.

Not really. Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

We're also not the favorites this season. Denver is:
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nba/finals-odds-championship-nba-betting-bm05/

Last season, out of 18 ESPN experts, 0 of them picked Boston to win the east. And only 3 of them even picked us to make the ECF:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34817879/nba-predictions-experts-picks-east-finals-west-finals-nba-finals-lebron-pursuit-history

Here's our preseason ranking among the league each of the past 3 seasons:
23-24: picked 2nd in league by Vegas odds
22-23: tied for 2nd
21-22: picked 13th in the league

Often times fans overrate their own team. Let's be realistic here. We don't have a top 3 player in the league. We don't have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. We don't have a hall of fame coach. We don't have anyone on our team who has ever won a ring before. We have a bunch of injury prone guys. Let's not be naive fanboys here and just think that we're some super team that is stacked with all-stars and future hall of famers. Let's not pretend that we're like some dynasty here with a core of guys who has already won the last 3 titles in a row. Jeez.

This is how old the best player and 2nd bet player for each recent title winning team was:
https://ibb.co/0tQvt5T

Tatum is 25 and JB is 26. As you can see, it pretty much never happens that a player who's 25 or under leads a team to a title and it's even more rare when that team's 2nd best player is 26 or under.

The championship window begins this season, imo. And even this season, it'll be tough:
-11 of the last 12 teams to win a title, had at least 1 guy on the team who had already won a title before that season. We have 0.
-The last 13 teams to win a title have all had at least 1 player who had an assist % of at least 30% that season. We have nobody who had an assist % of 30% or higher last season. The guy on our team who had the highest assist % last season was only at 21%.

Championship or bust was the 92-93 bulls. This celtics team is not that - not even close.

I've never seen a group of people with such high expectations for a team that has 0 guys on it who have ever won a title before and are led by a 25 and 26 yr old (no team in the last 20 yrs has won a title when led by a duo that is so young), has no one on the team who has ever won MVP and no one on the team who has ever even finished top 3 in MVP voting.

We've got a good team. We're one of the favorites. We're 1 of like 6 or so teams with a legit shot at winning it all. But let's not get carried away. Let's be realistic. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

Those are cute clickbait images. Everything I said still holds true.

[Bar Fight]

Celts were not the favorites in 2022.

They were like the Miami Heat of 2023 back in 2022.

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

Many experts/analysts were picking us to lose in the 1st round to the Nets.

Again, Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

We were favored both by Vegas and by statistical models heading into the '22 Finals. Like I said, I'm not going to hold their feet to the fire for losing a winnable series on the biggest stage with a young team. '23 was egregious though.

[Bar Fight]

Not really. Warriors had a better record than us in 21-22, they had home court advantage in the NBA finals. Their 3 core players and their head coach had already won 3 titles together. They had arguably the 2 best shooters of all-time, probably a top 10 defender of all-time, possibly 4 future hall of famers (5 if Kerr gets in as a coach). And arguably a top 10 player of all time. Anyone who called the Celtics "favorites" that season was on crack. Yeah, like we were gonna win a title with a 23 year old as our best player, a 24 yr old as our 2nd best player and a rookie head coach. C'mon now.

We're also not the favorites this season. Denver is:
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nba/finals-odds-championship-nba-betting-bm05/

Last season, out of 18 ESPN experts, 0 of them picked Boston to win the east. And only 3 of them even picked us to make the ECF:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34817879/nba-predictions-experts-picks-east-finals-west-finals-nba-finals-lebron-pursuit-history

Here's our preseason ranking among the league each of the past 3 seasons:
23-24: picked 2nd in league by Vegas odds
22-23: tied for 2nd
21-22: picked 13th in the league

Often times fans overrate their own team. Let's be realistic here. We don't have a top 3 player in the league. We don't have 2 of the top 10 players in the league. We don't have a hall of fame coach. We don't have anyone on our team who has ever won a ring before. We have a bunch of injury prone guys. Let's not be naive fanboys here and just think that we're some super team that is stacked with all-stars and future hall of famers. Let's not pretend that we're like some dynasty here with a core of guys who has already won the last 3 titles in a row. Jeez.

This is how old the best player and 2nd bet player for each recent title winning team was:
https://ibb.co/0tQvt5T

Tatum is 25 and JB is 26. As you can see, it pretty much never happens that a player who's 25 or under leads a team to a title and it's even more rare when that team's 2nd best player is 26 or under.

The championship window begins this season, imo. And even this season, it'll be tough:
-11 of the last 12 teams to win a title, had at least 1 guy on the team who had already won a title before that season. We have 0.
-The last 13 teams to win a title have all had at least 1 player who had an assist % of at least 30% that season. We have nobody who had an assist % of 30% or higher last season. The guy on our team who had the highest assist % last season was only at 21%.

Championship or bust was the 92-93 bulls. This celtics team is not that - not even close.

I've never seen a group of people with such high expectations for a team that has 0 guys on it who have ever won a title before and are led by a 25 and 26 yr old (no team in the last 20 yrs has won a title when led by a duo that is so young), has no one on the team who has ever won MVP and no one on the team who has ever even finished top 3 in MVP voting.

We've got a good team. We're one of the favorites. We're 1 of like 6 or so teams with a legit shot at winning it all. But let's not get carried away. Let's be realistic. Otherwise, we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment.

Those are cute clickbait images. Everything I said still holds true.

Those are literally based on analytics lol. Couldn't be further from "clickbait". There is nothing subjective about those statistics.

[Hal14]

They were easily the best team in the league the second half of the season and were statistically favored going into the Playoffs

Yeah, but the favorites are picked before the season starts.

Just like what some Celtic fans are doing right now.

If the Cs are favorites now but are not statistically favored going into the playoffs then does that mean they are not favorites to win it all next season?

Because if we based it on the 2nd half of the season then that means the Celts were not favorites to win it all last season because the Cs were just above average after that 18-4 start.

Yeah, if something drastic happens in the season to change the odds then you take that into account. The '22 season is forgivable because they were young/had never experienced the Finals. The '23 season was inexcusable. Nothing can convince me this team had ANY business losing to the Miami Heat.

Even with the drop off after the hot start. They were overwhelming favorites over Miami and lost in one of the biggest upsets in the history of our franchise.

Inexcusable? Look dude, upsets happen. It's part of sports. It's not the first time a team lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team and it sure as hell won't be the last. We don't have to spend the whole summer whining about it.

Miami is a tough matchup for us. They had a coaching advantage. They had a bunch of guys who shot like 30% from 3 in the reg season all of a sudden turn into prime Steph and we had a bunch of 40% shooters from 3 all of a sudden forget how to shoot. JB was playing with injured wrist, Grant was playing with injured hand (that required surgery right after the season) Tatum sprained ankle on the 1st play of the game in game 7. Brogdon had injured elbow. We had a rookie head coach who had to coach with a bunch of Ime's buddies for assistants and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs. And we still pushed Miami to 7 games. Let's not act like we got swept here.

Miami simply got hot at the right time of the season. They beat Milwaukee in 5 games, they beat the knicks in 6. We pushed them to 7.

Lastly, Miami was obviously not your typical 8 seed. They were the 1 seed in 2022 (we needed 7 games to beat them in the 2022 ECF). They were eastern conference champs in 2020. They would have been higher seeded in 2023 but clearly they coasted during the reg season and conserved their energy (knowing they could turn it on for the playoffs, which they did) and they rested guys in the reg season, and had some guys out with injuries too.

Miami has the best coach in the league. Their duo of Butler and Bam are both elite defenders who are not phased by the bright lights of the playoffs. Butler (come playoff time and during crunch time) has arguably been just as good as tatum these past few years (especially when factoring in defense). Bam is arguably better than JB. Bam/Butler complement each other's game better than the jays and have less overlap than the Jays.

[Hal14]

Those are cute clickbait images. Everything I said still holds true.

Those are literally based on analytics lol. Couldn't be further from "clickbait". There is nothing subjective about those statistics.

lol. I get it! All you gotta do is say "analytics" or "stats!" and it's just gotta be true!

The fact that you actually posted an image saying that we had an 86% chance of winning the NBA finals over a team that had already won 3 titles together (when none of our players had ever won a single title before) and we didn't even have home court, warriors had better reg season record (despite resting their key players quite a bit during the season) and we were led by a 23 and 24 year old duo (teams led by a duo that young have not won a single title in the past 22 years) to support your argument is legitimately hilarious.

Clearly something is horribly wrong with those analytics haha.

[Bar Fight]

Yeah, but the favorites are picked before the season starts.

Just like what some Celtic fans are doing right now.

If the Cs are favorites now but are not statistically favored going into the playoffs then does that mean they are not favorites to win it all next season?

Because if we based it on the 2nd half of the season then that means the Celts were not favorites to win it all last season because the Cs were just above average after that 18-4 start.

Yeah, if something drastic happens in the season to change the odds then you take that into account. The '22 season is forgivable because they were young/had never experienced the Finals. The '23 season was inexcusable. Nothing can convince me this team had ANY business losing to the Miami Heat.

Even with the drop off after the hot start. They were overwhelming favorites over Miami and lost in one of the biggest upsets in the history of our franchise.

Inexcusable? Look dude, upsets happen. It's part of sports. It's not the first time a team lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team and it sure as hell won't be the last. We don't have to spend the whole summer whining about it.

Miami is a tough matchup for us. They had a coaching advantage. They had a bunch of guys who shot like 30% from 3 in the reg season all of a sudden turn into prime Steph and we had a bunch of 40% shooters from 3 all of a sudden forget how to shoot. JB was playing with injured wrist, Grant was playing with injured hand (that required surgery right after the season) Tatum sprained ankle on the 1st play of the game in game 7. Brogdon had injured elbow. We had a rookie head coach who had to coach with a bunch of Ime's buddies for assistants and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs. And we still pushed Miami to 7 games. Let's not act like we got swept here.

Miami simply got hot at the right time of the season. They beat Milwaukee in 5 games, they beat the knicks in 6. We pushed them to 7.

Lastly, Miami was obviously not your typical 8 seed. They were the 1 seed in 2022 (we needed 7 games to beat them in the 2022 ECF). They were eastern conference champs in 2020. They would have been higher seeded in 2023 but clearly they coasted during the reg season and conserved their energy (knowing they could turn it on for the playoffs, which they did) and they rested guys in the reg season, and had some guys out with injuries too.

Miami has the best coach in the league. Their duo of Butler and Bam are both elite defenders who are not phased by the bright lights of the playoffs.

Yeah, and they're called "upsets" for a reason. Forgive me if I'm upset that we got upset lol. We had no business losing that series.

Milwaukee played 3 of the 5 games without Giannis. The Knicks were never close to title contenders. We had our main lineup healthy heading into the series and for the vast majority of the series. They had their second best scorer out the entire series. We not only lost to a lower seed, but we lost to a wounded lower seed lol. We don't get credit for "pushing" a team we should've beat to 7 games. Especially when you lose 3 out of 4 at home. I doubt you were this high on the Heat before the series. Almost nobody was. You'd be hard pressed to find many non-Heat fans on record saying the Heat would win heading into the series

[Bar Fight]

Those are cute clickbait images. Everything I said still holds true.

Those are literally based on analytics lol. Couldn't be further from "clickbait". There is nothing subjective about those statistics.

lol. I get it! All you gotta do is say "analytics" or "stats!" and it's just gotta be true!

The fact that you actually posted an image saying that we had an 86% chance of winning the NBA finals over a team that had already won 3 titles together (when none of our players had ever won a single title before) and we didn't even have home court, warriors had better reg season record (despite resting their key players quite a bit during the season) and we were led by a 23 and 24 year old duo (teams led by a duo that young have not won a single title in the past 22 years) to support your argument is legitimately hilarious.

Clearly something is horribly wrong with those analytics haha.

You're mad at numbers lol. I don't care either way. Cool if you don't think those stats mean anything. I just don't want to see anyone using them when arguing in favor of our team.

[BK_2020]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gordon Hayward bought out.

That's true. Especially now that they resigned PJ Washington.

If they keep Hayward, it's a logjam at the 3 and 4 spots with Hayward, Bridges, Washington and Brandon Miller. All of those guys are gonna want minutes. You gotta give minutes to the guy you just picked 2nd in the draft.

Plus you've got McGowens who can play some at the 3 - Cody Martin too.

I'm sure they're trying to trade Hayward to avoid having to buy him out, but I doubt anyone wants to trade for that contract.

I doubt they are worried about a logjam. It's not like Hayward's gonna play much anyway.

[MeanGeraldGreen]

[Hal14]

Ok. So based on what I am thinking and what I have read/heard..our 15 roster spot will likely be...

-A guy who can play the 4 and/or the 5
-Either a young (age 23 or younger) guy with upside or a more polishes/developed vet who is age 26 or older
-Someone who is willing to take a minimum contract
-Willing to take a limited role. Could get some playing time but will have nights when he is a DNP-CD..needs to be ok with that
-Good size/length, 6'6" or taller (Svi, KP, Banton, Walsh, Brissett. There's certainly a trend here with size/length)
-Would be ok with signing a non-guaranteed, partially guaranteed or even an exhibit 10 deal to compete for a roster spot in training camp (Kornet, Banton and Svi are all on non-guranteed deals or partially guaranteed deals)

One guy we haven't talked much about. But he seems to check all of those boxes. And there were reports earlier in the offseason that said we brought him in for a workout....

Alize Johnson.

I know he's not the biggest name. But he seems like a guy who plays hard. Seems like a quiet guy, not gonna make a fuss about lack of playing time. Just gonna be happy to actually be on a roster. Just goes about his business. Goes in there and plays hard when called upon.

27 yrs old so should literally be at his peak right about now. But he's also at that age where, this might be his last shot to really try and make it in the league..cause he's bounced around a lot from team to team, bounced in and out of being in the league. He's been in the g league quite a bit. Has struggled to get consistent playing time for an NBA team. But he has shown some impressive flashes when he has gotten the chance at some minutes.

6'8" with a 6'9" wingspan.

Last season he put up some really impressive numbers in the g league. 17 PPG. 60.5% FG. An insane rebounding % of 22.5. Also an assist % of 18 which is very high for a big so it's not like he just shoots it every time he gets it. 67.9% TS. This is in 31 games. 31.3% from 3 on 2 attempts per game which is low % but not *that* bad and decent volume so he's not a complete non-shooter.

Seems like maybe one of those guys who's too good for g league but not good enough for NBA. But I say why not give him a shot and at least bring him in to training camp?

He's got some game:

Watch on YouTube

Obviously too much NBA experience to be on a 2-way, but we could certainly do worse for that 15th roster spot than Alize Johnson, imo.

Edit: nevermind lol, I just seen Alize recently signed with a team in the Korean Basketball League.

Read on Twitter

[Hal14]

Give me Lamar on this team. I said it before but I'll say it again. The more I see of this guy, the more I think he might legit be an all-NBA level defender right now.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

With that being said, I kind of think that if we were gonna sign him, then we would've signed him instead of Svi.

But maybe not. Maybe we signed Svi to be a shooter who can play the 2 or the 3, and we'll sign Lamar to be the lockdown defender who can play the 3 or the 4.

[chrisab123]

Ok. So based on what I am thinking and what I have read/heard..our 15 roster spot will likely be...

-A guy who can play the 4 and/or the 5
-Either a young (age 23 or younger) guy with upside or a more polishes/developed vet who is age 26 or older
-Someone who is willing to take a minimum contract
-Willing to take a limited role. Could get some playing time but will have nights when he is a DNP-CD..needs to be ok with that
-Good size/length, 6'6" or taller (Svi, KP, Banton, Walsh, Brissett. There's certainly a trend here with size/length)
-Would be ok with signing a non-guaranteed, partially guaranteed or even an exhibit 10 deal to compete for a roster spot in training camp (Kornet, Banton and Svi are all on non-guranteed deals or partially guaranteed deals)

One guy we haven't talked much about. But he seems to check all of those boxes. And there were reports earlier in the offseason that said we brought him in for a workout....

Alize Johnson.

I know he's not the biggest name. But he seems like a guy who plays hard. Seems like a quiet guy, not gonna make a fuss about lack of playing time. Just gonna be happy to actually be on a roster. Just goes about his business. Goes in there and plays hard when called upon.

27 yrs old so should literally be at his peak right about now. But he's also at that age where, this might be his last shot to really try and make it in the league..cause he's bounced around a lot from team to team, bounced in and out of being in the league. He's been in the g league quite a bit. Has struggled to get consistent playing time for an NBA team. But he has shown some impressive flashes when he has gotten the chance at some minutes.

6'8" with a 6'9" wingspan.

Last season he put up some really impressive numbers in the g league. 17 PPG. 60.5% FG. An insane rebounding % of 22.5. Also an assist % of 18 which is very high for a big so it's not like he just shoots it every time he gets it. 67.9% TS. This is in 31 games. 31.3% from 3 on 2 attempts per game which is low % but not *that* bad and decent volume so he's not a complete non-shooter.

Seems like maybe one of those guys who's too good for g league but not good enough for NBA. But I say why not give him a shot and at least bring him in to training camp?

He's got some game:

Watch on YouTube

Obviously too much NBA experience to be on a 2-way, but we could certainly do worse for that 15th roster spot than Alize Johnson, imo.

Edit: nevermind lol, I just seen Alize recently signed with a team in the Korean Basketball League.

Read on Twitter

Its going to be Blake. He's probably going to sign halfway through camp.

[Shak_Celts]

Kenneth Faried? Chile i haven’t heard that name in a while. There was a point where i woulda said yes but something had to be up with his personality cause no one’s kept him around. Could also be because he’s basically a kanter, no place in this league.

Wait: “I don’t like to toot my own horn but i was a superstar in this league…” In the NBA? When??? Good player? Absolutely. Stop tooting that toot because the lie detector said…

Et tu, Shak_Celts?

Well, you watched the video at least. That quote was.... taken out of context! No, it was pretty cringe. He was a marginal star for a couple of years though

I prefer the, "I'm extremely hungry, way hungrier than when I was younger" line.

Agree with the Freedom (né: Kanter) part of it. His game didn't evolve with the times. He even admits in this article how the Golden State phenomena changed his career. But, times keep changing.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/05/i-had-to-seek-therapy-what-happens-when-an-nba-career-ends-before-its-time

My bad. At least you know I'll swear he can get back to being a SUPERSTAR if we sign him! "He just got a bad rap, he's always been underrated! He's going to be dominant off the bench in short minutes!!"

[GoCeltics123]

That's true. Especially now that they resigned PJ Washington.

If they keep Hayward, it's a logjam at the 3 and 4 spots with Hayward, Bridges, Washington and Brandon Miller. All of those guys are gonna want minutes. You gotta give minutes to the guy you just picked 2nd in the draft.

Plus you've got McGowens who can play some at the 3 - Cody Martin too.

I'm sure they're trying to trade Hayward to avoid having to buy him out, but I doubt anyone wants to trade for that contract.

I think a lot of people don't realize this, but the Celtics can't sign buyout guys this year with the new CBA. Most contenders can't

I think we can as long as we stay under the second apron (even after signing buyout guy).

I think it's the first apron no?

[ConstableGeneva]

I think a lot of people don't realize this, but the Celtics can't sign buyout guys this year with the new CBA. Most contenders can't

I think we can as long as we stay under the second apron (even after signing buyout guy).

I think it's the first apron no?

When you google, there are conflicting reports. But if you check the actual CBA, you are correct, it's the first apron. Don't listen to zoyatheignoramus. (See letter D on the table below.)



EDIT: There are restrictions that are effective immediately. But there are some that will be rolled out later on. Dunno if signing buyout guys is one of those that already apply this season.

[Dogen]

Kenneth Faried? Chile i haven’t heard that name in a while. There was a point where i woulda said yes but something had to be up with his personality cause no one’s kept him around. Could also be because he’s basically a kanter, no place in this league.

Wait: “I don’t like to toot my own horn but i was a superstar in this league…” In the NBA? When??? Good player? Absolutely. Stop tooting that toot because the lie detector said…

Et tu, Shak_Celts?

Well, you watched the video at least. That quote was.... taken out of context! No, it was pretty cringe. He was a marginal star for a couple of years though

I prefer the, "I'm extremely hungry, way hungrier than when I was younger" line.

Agree with the Freedom (né: Kanter) part of it. His game didn't evolve with the times. He even admits in this article how the Golden State phenomena changed his career. But, times keep changing.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/apr/05/i-had-to-seek-therapy-what-happens-when-an-nba-career-ends-before-its-time

My bad. At least you know I'll swear he can get back to being a SUPERSTAR if we sign him! "He just got a bad rap, he's always been underrated! He's going to be dominant off the bench in short minutes!!"

Ah, well, you were probably right to "Chile" me.

I do know that we both enjoy a feel good story on the Celtics. It's gonna be someone this year, that comes out of nowhere in big games, whether rookie or vet. My money is on Jordan Walsh to turn some heads. And I have a hunch that JD Steward will make a mark at some point.

The comeback narrative is one of the best though. Can you imagine Faried battling the trees under the basket and having one classic playoff game that contributes to a big win?

I can. Here's one of my all time favorite Celtic games. 2008 finals. Game 2. LEON **** POWE!

Watch on YouTube

Looks a lot like Faried out there. Some guys just need to get the motor revved and it's throwback time.

[165bows]

I think we can as long as we stay under the second apron (even after signing buyout guy).

I think it's the first apron no?

When you google, there are conflicting reports. But if you check the actual CBA, you are correct, it's the first apron. Don't listen to zoyatheignoramus. (See letter D on the table below.)



EDIT: There are restrictions that are effective immediately. But there are some that will be rolled out later on. Dunno if signing buyout guys is one of those that already apply this season.

Interesting, didn’t realize that was a first apron thing.

That said, I don’t think this is considered during the regular season - and the ntmle is something over $10M so even so wouldn’t encompass too many different guys. Birch, Bullock, Osman etc are all less than that.

[Hal14]

Yeah, if something drastic happens in the season to change the odds then you take that into account. The '22 season is forgivable because they were young/had never experienced the Finals. The '23 season was inexcusable. Nothing can convince me this team had ANY business losing to the Miami Heat.

Even with the drop off after the hot start. They were overwhelming favorites over Miami and lost in one of the biggest upsets in the history of our franchise.

Inexcusable? Look dude, upsets happen. It's part of sports. It's not the first time a team lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team and it sure as hell won't be the last. We don't have to spend the whole summer whining about it.

Miami is a tough matchup for us. They had a coaching advantage. They had a bunch of guys who shot like 30% from 3 in the reg season all of a sudden turn into prime Steph and we had a bunch of 40% shooters from 3 all of a sudden forget how to shoot. JB was playing with injured wrist, Grant was playing with injured hand (that required surgery right after the season) Tatum sprained ankle on the 1st play of the game in game 7. Brogdon had injured elbow. We had a rookie head coach who had to coach with a bunch of Ime's buddies for assistants and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs. And we still pushed Miami to 7 games. Let's not act like we got swept here.

Miami simply got hot at the right time of the season. They beat Milwaukee in 5 games, they beat the knicks in 6. We pushed them to 7.

Lastly, Miami was obviously not your typical 8 seed. They were the 1 seed in 2022 (we needed 7 games to beat them in the 2022 ECF). They were eastern conference champs in 2020. They would have been higher seeded in 2023 but clearly they coasted during the reg season and conserved their energy (knowing they could turn it on for the playoffs, which they did) and they rested guys in the reg season, and had some guys out with injuries too.

Miami has the best coach in the league. Their duo of Butler and Bam are both elite defenders who are not phased by the bright lights of the playoffs.

Yeah, and they're called "upsets" for a reason. Forgive me if I'm upset that we got upset lol. We had no business losing that series.

Milwaukee played 3 of the 5 games without Giannis. The Knicks were never close to title contenders. We had our main lineup healthy heading into the series and for the vast majority of the series. They had their second best scorer out the entire series. We not only lost to a lower seed, but we lost to a wounded lower seed lol.

Not true. JB played pretty much the whole series with an injured left wrist - Bam fell on JB's wrist in game 1 - the same wrist that JB had surgery on in 2021. You know how everyone mocks JB now, saying he can't go left? You know how he had 8 turnovers in game 7? It's because he was playing with that left wrist injury.

That's why JB went from a 64.5% TS in the philly series to a 46.5% TS vs Miami.

Grant's hand injury was suffered in March and he played with the injury for all of the playoffs.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/06/09/grant-williams-injury-hand-surgery-news/

Brogdon started dealing with the elbow injury during the Philly series, so he played injured for the entire Miami series - and even sat out 1 of the games because the pain was so bad.

And while Tatum was healthy for most of the Miami series, the fact is that the series was all tied up 3-3 heading to game 7 in Boston. We certainly could have won game 7 if Tatum didn't sprain his ankle on the 1st play of the game.

Time Lord meanwhile injured his wrist in the 2nd quarter of game 6 and also was throwing up for all of game 7, due to a stomach virus:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/robert-williams-injury-celtics-big-man-goes-to-locker-room-in-game-6.html

Herro was Miami's 3rd leading scorer - not 2nd. Miami played their best basketball of the season without Herro. Without Herro, they played better defense and and had better ball movement on offense. Herro did not grade very well last season according to many advanced stats.

And again, Miami had pretty much that same team in 2022 when they were the 1 seed, pushed us to 7 games in the ECF and would have probably beaten us if Butler's jumper went in at the end of game 7.

Ever since the bubble, Miami has played us VERY tough. They beat us in the 2020 ECF, we barely beat them in the 2022 ECF. Then they barely beat us in the 2023 ECF. Again, Miami has the best coach in the league..we had a rookie head coach, who had Ime's buddies for assistants, and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs.

It really isn't that shocking that we lost to Miami, given all of that context. Not to mention the lucky shooting Miami had and the unlucky shooting we had that series.

Now, hopefully we can move on, stop dwelling on last season and focus on this season.

[Bar Fight]

Inexcusable? Look dude, upsets happen. It's part of sports. It's not the first time a team lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team and it sure as hell won't be the last. We don't have to spend the whole summer whining about it.

Miami is a tough matchup for us. They had a coaching advantage. They had a bunch of guys who shot like 30% from 3 in the reg season all of a sudden turn into prime Steph and we had a bunch of 40% shooters from 3 all of a sudden forget how to shoot. JB was playing with injured wrist, Grant was playing with injured hand (that required surgery right after the season) Tatum sprained ankle on the 1st play of the game in game 7. Brogdon had injured elbow. We had a rookie head coach who had to coach with a bunch of Ime's buddies for assistants and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs. And we still pushed Miami to 7 games. Let's not act like we got swept here.

Miami simply got hot at the right time of the season. They beat Milwaukee in 5 games, they beat the knicks in 6. We pushed them to 7.

Lastly, Miami was obviously not your typical 8 seed. They were the 1 seed in 2022 (we needed 7 games to beat them in the 2022 ECF). They were eastern conference champs in 2020. They would have been higher seeded in 2023 but clearly they coasted during the reg season and conserved their energy (knowing they could turn it on for the playoffs, which they did) and they rested guys in the reg season, and had some guys out with injuries too.

Miami has the best coach in the league. Their duo of Butler and Bam are both elite defenders who are not phased by the bright lights of the playoffs.

Yeah, and they're called "upsets" for a reason. Forgive me if I'm upset that we got upset lol. We had no business losing that series.

Milwaukee played 3 of the 5 games without Giannis. The Knicks were never close to title contenders. We had our main lineup healthy heading into the series and for the vast majority of the series. They had their second best scorer out the entire series. We not only lost to a lower seed, but we lost to a wounded lower seed lol.

Not true. JB played pretty much the whole series with an injured left wrist - Bam fell on JB's wrist in game 1 - the same wrist that JB had surgery on in 2021. You know how everyone mocks JB now, saying he can't go left? You know how he had 8 turnovers in game 7? It's because he was playing with that left wrist injury.

That's why JB went from a 64.5% TS in the philly series to a 46.5% TS vs Miami.

Grant's hand injury was suffered in March and he played with the injury for all of the playoffs.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/06/09/grant-williams-injury-hand-surgery-news/

Brogdon started dealing with the elbow injury during the Philly series, so he played injured for the entire Miami series - and even sat out 1 of the games because the pain was so bad.

And while Tatum was healthy for most of the Miami series, the fact is that the series was all tied up 3-3 heading to game 7 in Boston. We certainly could have won game 7 if Tatum didn't sprain his ankle on the 1st play of the game.

Time Lord meanwhile injured his wrist in the 2nd quarter of game 6 and also was throwing up for all of game 7, due to a stomach virus:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/robert-williams-injury-celtics-big-man-goes-to-locker-room-in-game-6.html

Herro was Miami's 3rd leading scorer - not 2nd. Miami played their best basketball of the season without Herro. Without Herro, they played better defense and and had better ball movement on offense. Herro did not grade very well last season according to many advanced stats.

And again, Miami had pretty much that same team in 2022 when they were the 1 seed, pushed us to 7 games in the ECF and would have probably beaten us if Butler's jumper went in at the end of game 7.

Ever since the bubble, Miami has played us VERY tough. They beat us in the 2020 ECF, we barely beat them in the 2022 ECF. Then they barely beat us in the 2023 ECF. Again, Miami has the best coach in the league..we had a rookie head coach, who had Ime's buddies for assistants, and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs.

It really isn't that shocking that we lost to Miami, given all of that context. Not to mention the lucky shooting Miami had and the unlucky shooting we had that series.

Now, hopefully we can move on, stop dwelling on last season and focus on this season.

I'm obviously talking about serious injuries here. Not minor injuries that require no surgery/treatment and can be played through. In that case, everybody who makes it deep in the Playoffs has a bunch of those. Jimmy played with a bad ankle from the Knicks series until the end of the season. Bam had a bad shoulder throughout the Playoffs. Vincent had a bad ankle midway through the series (and missed a game as a result). The fact is, we had our guys in the lineup playing every game (minus Brogdon, who missed one game) against an 8th seed missing one of their best players for the entire series. We had no business losing and using minor injuries as an excuse is beyond weak.

So your "advanced stats" matter but mine are clickbait/nonsense. Got it lol. There's no way a team is better without a scorer/shot creator like Herro in the Playoffs where those guys are at a premium. ****, many people on here have cited advanced stats claiming we're better without JB (or with him off the floor). I'm assuming you don't agree with that either based on your argument.

And the Warriors won a title in '22 with the same team that flamed out in the second round this year. You can have the same/a similar team with vastly different results from season to season. Losing to Miami was absolutely shocking. We were overwhelming favorites and had a significant talent advantage. We lost three out of four at home including getting blown out in Game 7. I don't see how you can look at that as anything but a failure. But then again, we could probably lose a Playoff series to the Washington Generals and you'd be up in here making excuses and arguing that the talent discrepancy wasn't all that significant.

[Triple7]

Yeah, and they're called "upsets" for a reason. Forgive me if I'm upset that we got upset lol. We had no business losing that series.

Milwaukee played 3 of the 5 games without Giannis. The Knicks were never close to title contenders. We had our main lineup healthy heading into the series and for the vast majority of the series. They had their second best scorer out the entire series. We not only lost to a lower seed, but we lost to a wounded lower seed lol.

Not true. JB played pretty much the whole series with an injured left wrist - Bam fell on JB's wrist in game 1 - the same wrist that JB had surgery on in 2021. You know how everyone mocks JB now, saying he can't go left? You know how he had 8 turnovers in game 7? It's because he was playing with that left wrist injury.

That's why JB went from a 64.5% TS in the philly series to a 46.5% TS vs Miami.

Grant's hand injury was suffered in March and he played with the injury for all of the playoffs.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/06/09/grant-williams-injury-hand-surgery-news/

Brogdon started dealing with the elbow injury during the Philly series, so he played injured for the entire Miami series - and even sat out 1 of the games because the pain was so bad.

And while Tatum was healthy for most of the Miami series, the fact is that the series was all tied up 3-3 heading to game 7 in Boston. We certainly could have won game 7 if Tatum didn't sprain his ankle on the 1st play of the game.

Time Lord meanwhile injured his wrist in the 2nd quarter of game 6 and also was throwing up for all of game 7, due to a stomach virus:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/05/robert-williams-injury-celtics-big-man-goes-to-locker-room-in-game-6.html

Herro was Miami's 3rd leading scorer - not 2nd. Miami played their best basketball of the season without Herro. Without Herro, they played better defense and and had better ball movement on offense. Herro did not grade very well last season according to many advanced stats.

And again, Miami had pretty much that same team in 2022 when they were the 1 seed, pushed us to 7 games in the ECF and would have probably beaten us if Butler's jumper went in at the end of game 7.

Ever since the bubble, Miami has played us VERY tough. They beat us in the 2020 ECF, we barely beat them in the 2022 ECF. Then they barely beat us in the 2023 ECF. Again, Miami has the best coach in the league..we had a rookie head coach, who had Ime's buddies for assistants, and the top assistant left for a college job right before the playoffs.

It really isn't that shocking that we lost to Miami, given all of that context. Not to mention the lucky shooting Miami had and the unlucky shooting we had that series.

Now, hopefully we can move on, stop dwelling on last season and focus on this season.

I'm obviously talking about serious injuries here. Not minor injuries that require no surgery/treatment and can be played through. In that case, everybody who makes it deep in the Playoffs has a bunch of those. Jimmy played with a bad ankle from the Knicks series until the end of the season. Bam had a bad shoulder throughout the Playoffs. Vincent had a bad ankle midway through the series (and missed a game as a result). The fact is, we had our guys in the lineup playing every game (minus Brogdon, who missed one game) against an 8th seed missing one of their best players for the entire series. We had no business losing and using minor injuries as an excuse is beyond weak.

So your "advanced stats" matter but mine are clickbait/nonsense. Got it lol. There's no way a team is better without a scorer/shot creator like Herro in the Playoffs where those guys are at a premium. ****, many people on here have cited advanced stats claiming we're better without JB (or with him off the floor). I'm assuming you don't agree with that either based on your argument.

And the Warriors won a title in '22 with the same team that flamed out in the second round this year. You can have the same/a similar team with vastly different results from season to season. Losing to Miami was absolutely shocking. We were overwhelming favorites and had a significant talent advantage. We lost three out of four at home including getting blown out in Game 7. I don't see how you can look at that as anything but a failure. But then again, we could probably lose a Playoff series to the Washington Generals and you'd be up in here making excuses and arguing that the talent discrepancy wasn't all that significant.

I agree. We are definitely favored to win that series against the heat. No excuses. Butler kept on punking us the whole season since we beat them in ‘22 playoffs, and carried it over last playoffs. Our guys choked hard, and butler was their daddy no question. Thought JT would carry this team though, but we were wrong. He’s got a chance this year to redeem himself. To be “that” guy. We have a better roster now. More balanced. Barring any injury to key players heading to the playoffs, we should be one the favorites to advance. All eyes are on JT. If he continues to lay an egg on every other playoff games, like he did the past two playoff seasons, then it would be too obvious this time that he’s got a weak mentality. Let’s hope he takes a leap on that regard his season. No excuses this time.