The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

[chrisab123]

I wonder if people would sign off on the following deal.

Boston trades either Jae Crowder/Avery Bradley, Amir KO 2 non Brooklyn picks.

LAC trades DeAndre Jordan and JJ Reddick with bench filler put into the deal to make the money work. Seems like Jordan would be perfect next to Big Al. No?

Would certainly make sense for both teams.

[BRUNiNHO91]

If Danny wanted to trade Brown and both BKN picks for Butler, dude would be in green right now. Something like Bradley, Rozier, Amir, Memphis pick and BKN 17 is a lot more realistic. Hell Bradley alone is pretty much 75% of the production Butler brings in nightly. 3 potential top 3 picks for Butler is a joke. Just ask for the TD Garden while you're at it. Damn.

[mikestar]

Once we lost out on Durant I felt the best path was to kick the can forward a few years. I'm fine trading these guys for better assets down the line. Not this deal.

[bucknersrevenge]

Also wondering if he could sneak onto the FA wish list. He seemed destined to get a big deal there but would he look around if they don't look promising?

Maybe not in his interest financially but can't help thinking it's become more of a possibility. FA list starting to look like (in order of least to most probable):
Griffin, Ibaka, Hayward, Millsap, Noel (possibly Gay).

Also concerned a bit about his longevity/durability though.

Also concerned that in Orlando he kinda fell into a scoring role that's a little larger than himself. This is kind of a "from afar perspective" so if I'm wrong so be it, but he's playing like he's kinda feelin himself a little bit after being in the shadows for so long in OKC. Like all the sudden, he's reading his own press clippings. He would not be asked to be the same guy here that he has been this year in Orlando.

In regard to your list, speaking of durability, do you still rate Griffin so high? Would you consider a max or close to max deal for Hayward with the intention of moving AB in a package for a big later?

Durability is the big question mark in long term deals. If you think Griffin holds up over four years, then IMO you offer a max and just plan on him being out there 75% of the time.

If it was me I'd offer Hayward the max, no doubt. I'd push Jae to the 4 or to the bench and figure it out later in terms of rotations. They need one more really good player that can play 3-5 and Hayward shouldn't go through a lot of decline on his next deal. I'm assuming Griffin isn't happening so really Hayward is plan A for me at the moment. Utah and Boston have the same record at this point so unless that drastically changes it should come down to preference and money.

Well if you sign Gordon, he either plays the 3 with Jae sliding to the bench with Marcus. If Jaylen remains they fill the swing spots off the bench but I can't help feel like it limits the minutes Jae is able to play and impact the team on. I would much rather have Hayward start at the 2 and then move AB when his value is highest before he comes up for a new contract. He's definitely valuable. I have to believe there is a package to be found that could give us a talented big.

Hypothetical wishlist deal: Jabari and filler for AB, Terry, and 2018 BKN pick.

[sarcasma]

Im in the camp we keep both Brooklyn picks and wait out Lebron. We want a dynasty not a 3 year window.

[cl2117]

I actually disagree Jaylen should be filling that role. Very few 20 year olds are ready to contribute by playing winning basketball.

I like Jaylen but I was upfront about the idea everyone should be ready for him to hit the under in terms of his minutes total.

IMO the only league average swing/combo-forward right now is Jae, so in a sense one of Brad's four categories of positions doesn't currently have an adequate backup.

I agree they don't really *have* to address it, but if Jae tweaks an ankle again it will be silly if they lose to a worse team in the first round.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jaylen is and "adequate" backup, but I still think it's his role to fill even though he's not ready for it, if that makes sense. At least that's why I think the focus should be on the 4/5 spot as far as an upgrade goes.

I think if IT tweaks an ankle or Horford gets another concussion we'd be in the same boat as far as risking a loss in the first round. With IT we have Rozier who is closer to being an adequate backup than Jaylen, but still miles behind IT who we jut can't afford to lose. If Horford goes down we're playing Zeller and that's just gives me chills. Unlike with Zeller, at least with Jaylen there's potential he develops into a more adequate backup sooner rather than later, but that's gonna take minutes.

[mademan]

Im in the camp we keep both Brooklyn picks and wait out Lebron. We want a dynasty not a 3 year window.

Last 3 lotto picks were Rozier/Brown/Smart. Minny has been in the lotto for nearly a decade and FINALLY got 1 blue chip piece in Towns, who was a cant miss 1st overall pick. It's hard to hit on the draft. My opinion, if you have a chance for a guy like Jimmy Butler, you go and get him (2 of the 3 BKN picks/Brown+other piece). Butler/IT/Horford sit down with Hayward in the offseason and youve got yourself a team that can contend with still a lot of youth

[Curmudgeon]

BTW, Rozier was #16-- not lottery.

[mademan]

BTW, Rozier was #16-- not lottery.

Ya, i was wrong. Still true though, it's hard to hit on the draft

[SmartWentCrazy]

I wonder if people would sign off on the following deal.

Boston trades either Jae Crowder/Avery Bradley, Amir KO 2 non Brooklyn picks.

LAC trades DeAndre Jordan and JJ Reddick with bench filler put into the deal to make the money work. Seems like Jordan would be perfect next to Big Al. No?

Would certainly make sense for both teams.

Given that he's hurt and an FA, I could see LA doing that for Griffin, in all honesty. Would put us in great shape to land Hayward in the offseason, too.

[Homerclease]

Monroe is still out there. I'd do Zeller + KO for Monroe in a heartbeat as long as Monroe doesn't opt into his final year

[Bohemian]

Right now I would only do Olynyk for Noel. The team just needs some rebounding ability. Both players are expiring, we test Noel to see if he´s worth a good contract next summer and we´re set

[SMTBSI]

Monroe is still out there. I'd do Zeller + KO for Monroe in a heartbeat as long as Monroe doesn't opt into his final year

I'm all aboard the Monroe train as well, as long as he opts out.

He can play it safe and take his money, but continue to be a backup and lose out on his next contract, or he can take the risk, bet on himself, and opt out, come here, where he can have a very real chance to start, rehab his image, and cash in, ET style.

Only question is whether he actually believes in himself or not. Playing it safe and opting in to stay on the bench shows he doesn't, in which case we don't want him anyway.

[Captain_Caveman]

Hey guys, this would be my offer for Butler in the event we blow it up -

Butler/McDermott for Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18.

This way, we maximize future assets, and you maximize roster quality.

We could also tweak this to include one of our bigs (Niko/Gibson/Lopez) if you're interested and cap allows, because we'd be looking to move them after this anyway.

Looking at the cap situation, the full deal might have to be something like -

Butler/McDermott/Mirotic/Felicio for Brown/Zeller/Johnson/BKN picks, as well as maybe throw us in one of your stashes or picks in exchange for the bigs, or one of Smart/Rozier if you prefer since one would be on the outside of the rotation.

I was down for #3/Smart/Crowder, or whatever it was this past summer, but your proposal here is a massive overpay, IMO. At least twice as much as I would give up for Butler, and I like him a lot. People have the assumption that it is Boston under pressure to make a big move, but I don't see it that way. We have the luxury of just adding top 5 picks in good drafts to a borderline top 5 team while we wait for the Warriors and Cavs to fall off. Any big move that doesn't put us on their level in the short-term isn't worth doing on our end, IMO.

I think it is teams like Chicago and Sacramento who are under pressure to do something. Really don't understand why Chicago didn't take our offer this summer over building a Wade-based team that will go .500 for a couple of years before falling off. They absolutely should have blown up an aging team and tanked over whatever it is that they think that they are doing now. You are either contending or rebuilding in this league, and the Bulls are poised to do neither for the foreseeable future.

Adding Kris Dunn and Smart while tanking for a top 5 pick of their own next year would have been a much better situation than the one your team is in today. Ditto for Sacramento and Cousins. If I am Ainge, the 2017 Nets pick is 100% off the table for either one of those guys while I wait for their teams to come to their senses.

[canman1971]

Hey guys, this would be my offer for Butler in the event we blow it up -

Butler/McDermott for Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18.

This way, we maximize future assets, and you maximize roster quality.

We could also tweak this to include one of our bigs (Niko/Gibson/Lopez) if you're interested and cap allows, because we'd be looking to move them after this anyway.

Looking at the cap situation, the full deal might have to be something like -

Butler/McDermott/Mirotic/Felicio for Brown/Zeller/Johnson/BKN picks, as well as maybe throw us in one of your stashes or picks in exchange for the bigs, or one of Smart/Rozier if you prefer since one would be on the outside of the rotation.

I was down for #3/Smart/Crowder, or whatever it was this past summer, but your proposal here is a massive overpay, IMO. At least twice as much as I would give up for Butler, and I like him a lot. People have the assumption that it is Boston under pressure to make a big move, but I don't see it that way. We have the luxury of just adding top 5 picks in good drafts to a borderline top 5 team while we wait for the Warriors and Cavs to fall off. Any big move that doesn't put us on their level in the short-term isn't worth doing on our end, IMO.

I think it is teams like Chicago and Sacramento who are under pressure to do something. Really don't understand why Chicago didn't take our offer this summer over building a Wade-based team that will go .500 for a couple of years before falling off. They absolutely should have blown up an aging team and tanked over whatever it is that they think that they are doing now. You are either contending or rebuilding in this league, and the Bulls are poised to do neither for the foreseeable future.

Adding Kris Dunn and Smart while tanking for a top 5 pick of their own next year would have been a much better situation than the one your team is in today. Ditto for Sacramento and Cousins. If I am Ainge, the 2017 Nets pick is 100% off the table for either one of those guys while I wait for their teams to come to their senses.

I agree. I just don't see Ainge trading that pick for anyone, noting that the likes of James, Durant, Curry, etc...aren't getting traded. Maybe the '18 BKN pick, but even then I feel Ainge wants to collect all his assets from the Nets trade and evaluate from there. The Celtics are winning so the picks will only make them stronger.

[Captain_Caveman]

Hey guys, this would be my offer for Butler in the event we blow it up -

Butler/McDermott for Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18.

This way, we maximize future assets, and you maximize roster quality.

We could also tweak this to include one of our bigs (Niko/Gibson/Lopez) if you're interested and cap allows, because we'd be looking to move them after this anyway.

Looking at the cap situation, the full deal might have to be something like -

Butler/McDermott/Mirotic/Felicio for Brown/Zeller/Johnson/BKN picks, as well as maybe throw us in one of your stashes or picks in exchange for the bigs, or one of Smart/Rozier if you prefer since one would be on the outside of the rotation.

I was down for #3/Smart/Crowder, or whatever it was this past summer, but your proposal here is a massive overpay, IMO. At least twice as much as I would give up for Butler, and I like him a lot. People have the assumption that it is Boston under pressure to make a big move, but I don't see it that way. We have the luxury of just adding top 5 picks in good drafts to a borderline top 5 team while we wait for the Warriors and Cavs to fall off. Any big move that doesn't put us on their level in the short-term isn't worth doing on our end, IMO.

I think it is teams like Chicago and Sacramento who are under pressure to do something. Really don't understand why Chicago didn't take our offer this summer over building a Wade-based team that will go .500 for a couple of years before falling off. They absolutely should have blown up an aging team and tanked over whatever it is that they think that they are doing now. You are either contending or rebuilding in this league, and the Bulls are poised to do neither for the foreseeable future.

Adding Kris Dunn and Smart while tanking for a top 5 pick of their own next year would have been a much better situation than the one your team is in today. Ditto for Sacramento and Cousins. If I am Ainge, the 2017 Nets pick is 100% off the table for either one of those guys while I wait for their teams to come to their senses.

I agree. I just don't see Ainge trading that pick for anyone, noting that the likes of James, Durant, Curry, etc...aren't getting traded. Maybe the '18 BKN pick, but even then I feel Ainge wants to collect all his assets from the Nets trade and evaluate from there. The Celtics are winning so the picks will only make them stronger.

We are a couple of big moves away IMO, but if we just stand pat and do nothing, we are still going to be a top 3-4 in a couple of years.

That's a high baseline.

[FlatearthZorro]

I get it. Ainge especially does seem like a guy that is adamant not to overpay, at least yet. Something like that might come down to whether another team starts a bidding war.

Also, just to add, B2P, McDermott doesn't suck, he's actually a really good player. He's probably our 4th or 5th best player, and would really be a starter if not for the stupid Rondo, Wade, Butler trio.

I included him because he's 25, so a bit older if we're rebuilding, and would help tip the scales a bit more given the apprehension on giving up both picks.

Butler may be "wasted" on your team, but problem is imo, Bulls' have the safest front office in the league. They don't care much about the team's future- they care about their job security. I don't remember the last time the Bulls made some kind of a big trade(I don't consider trading expiring Rose for Lopez "big").

I think Bull's FO playing it safe is the reason they ask for so much for Butler. Butler is a great 2 way player and a star, but I dunno if he's a top 10 palyer(of the top of my head I got 6 players better than him) and worth 3 top 5 picks.

Overall I don't see such trade happening unless your team missed the playoffs and the FO lowers the asking price a little bit.

[Tiny ball]

Im in the camp we keep both Brooklyn picks and wait out Lebron. We want a dynasty not a 3 year window.

Last 3 lotto picks were Rozier/Brown/Smart. Minny has been in the lotto for nearly a decade and FINALLY got 1 blue chip piece in Towns, who was a cant miss 1st overall pick. It's hard to hit on the draft. My opinion, if you have a chance for a guy like Jimmy Butler, you go and get him (2 of the 3 BKN picks/Brown+other piece). Butler/IT/Horford sit down with Hayward in the offseason and youve got yourself a team that can contend with still a lot of youth

Butler is not all that. Bradley is very close to him I would not give up one Brooklyn pick for him.

[Tiny ball]

Hey guys, this would be my offer for Butler in the event we blow it up -

Butler/McDermott for Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18.

This way, we maximize future assets, and you maximize roster quality.

We could also tweak this to include one of our bigs (Niko/Gibson/Lopez) if you're interested and cap allows, because we'd be looking to move them after this anyway.

Looking at the cap situation, the full deal might have to be something like -

Butler/McDermott/Mirotic/Felicio for Brown/Zeller/Johnson/BKN picks, as well as maybe throw us in one of your stashes or picks in exchange for the bigs, or one of Smart/Rozier if you prefer since one would be on the outside of the rotation.

I was down for #3/Smart/Crowder, or whatever it was this past summer, but your proposal here is a massive overpay, IMO. At least twice as much as I would give up for Butler, and I like him a lot. People have the assumption that it is Boston under pressure to make a big move, but I don't see it that way. We have the luxury of just adding top 5 picks in good drafts to a borderline top 5 team while we wait for the Warriors and Cavs to fall off. Any big move that doesn't put us on their level in the short-term isn't worth doing on our end, IMO.

I think it is teams like Chicago and Sacramento who are under pressure to do something. Really don't understand why Chicago didn't take our offer this summer over building a Wade-based team that will go .500 for a couple of years before falling off. They absolutely should have blown up an aging team and tanked over whatever it is that they think that they are doing now. You are either contending or rebuilding in this league, and the Bulls are poised to do neither for the foreseeable future.

Adding Kris Dunn and Smart while tanking for a top 5 pick of their own next year would have been a much better situation than the one your team is in today. Ditto for Sacramento and Cousins. If I am Ainge, the 2017 Nets pick is 100% off the table for either one of those guys while I wait for their teams to come to their senses.

They I would assume are putting fans in seats. You can go Hinkle any time this is deep draft they have a chance to get a good player to develop same the next year with out tanking. They fill seats couple years then do the tank? I don't follow bulls I am assuming they have not traded their draft picks?

[Captain_Caveman]

Hey guys, this would be my offer for Butler in the event we blow it up -

Butler/McDermott for Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18.

This way, we maximize future assets, and you maximize roster quality.

We could also tweak this to include one of our bigs (Niko/Gibson/Lopez) if you're interested and cap allows, because we'd be looking to move them after this anyway.

Looking at the cap situation, the full deal might have to be something like -

Butler/McDermott/Mirotic/Felicio for Brown/Zeller/Johnson/BKN picks, as well as maybe throw us in one of your stashes or picks in exchange for the bigs, or one of Smart/Rozier if you prefer since one would be on the outside of the rotation.

I was down for #3/Smart/Crowder, or whatever it was this past summer, but your proposal here is a massive overpay, IMO. At least twice as much as I would give up for Butler, and I like him a lot. People have the assumption that it is Boston under pressure to make a big move, but I don't see it that way. We have the luxury of just adding top 5 picks in good drafts to a borderline top 5 team while we wait for the Warriors and Cavs to fall off. Any big move that doesn't put us on their level in the short-term isn't worth doing on our end, IMO.

I think it is teams like Chicago and Sacramento who are under pressure to do something. Really don't understand why Chicago didn't take our offer this summer over building a Wade-based team that will go .500 for a couple of years before falling off. They absolutely should have blown up an aging team and tanked over whatever it is that they think that they are doing now. You are either contending or rebuilding in this league, and the Bulls are poised to do neither for the foreseeable future.

Adding Kris Dunn and Smart while tanking for a top 5 pick of their own next year would have been a much better situation than the one your team is in today. Ditto for Sacramento and Cousins. If I am Ainge, the 2017 Nets pick is 100% off the table for either one of those guys while I wait for their teams to come to their senses.

They I would assume are putting fans in seats. You can go Hinkle any time this is deep draft they have a chance to get a good player to develop same the next year with out tanking. They fill seats couple years then do the tank? I don't follow bulls I am assuming they have not traded their draft picks?

There's a term for franchises that are in this just to make mediocre profit with mediocre squads.

Bad teams.