Trade Post-Mortem 2017: Eight is Enough

[Celts17Pride]

I honestly believe the Celtics won't be in on either George or Butler.

1. I think Ainge knows already that George won't resign with the Celtics

2. Butler is simply not that much of an upgrade for what the Celtics would have to give up to get him. Bradley outplaying him in this last series proved Ainge was right not giving up a lot to get him.

I believe this off-season is all about making a huge push for Hayward or Griffin.

[Celts17Pride]

If the pick is in the 3-4 range, that's not crazy.

Trading Bradley in a Paul George trade makes no sense. You would want to end up with IT/AB/George backcourt.

And please don't anyone say Jaylen Brown or Fultz because they are light years away

It makes sense if you're bringing in Hayward too.

Hayward/Brown
George/Smart
Thomas/Rozier

Going to be an interesting off-season after the Celtics win Banner 18

[lon3lytoaster]

I honestly believe the Celtics won't be in on either George or Butler.

1. I think Ainge knows already that George won't resign with the Celtics

2. Butler is simply not that much of an upgrade for what the Celtics would have to give up to get him. Bradley outplaying him in this last series proved Ainge was right not giving up a lot to get him.

I believe this off-season is all about making a huge push for Hayward or Griffin.

I'd hesitate on the thought George wouldn't re-sign with Boston. Larry Bird stepping down is an interesting thing to me. Subconsciously I just want to believe he doesn't want the stigma of trading George to a friend attached to him. But that's probably wishful thinking.

Stars don't move often once traded to a new team. Coincidentally, the last time it probably happened was when Dwight Howard left the Lakers.

I don't really worry about PG not resigning but I definitely prioritize Hayward due to us just being able to get him for cap space

[DaddyCool19]

Can you guys offer George the super max in 2018 if you trade for him? If yes, I can't see him leaving Boston, who could easily make the ECF with him and a decent rebounding big and push Lebron to game 6-7 there, or even make the finals, while the Lakers should still be atleast 2-3 years away to make it out of the first round in the playoffs.

[ConstableGeneva]

Can you guys offer George the super max in 2018 if you trade for him? If yes, I can't see him leaving Boston, who could easily make the ECF with him and a decent rebounding big and push Lebron to game 6-7 there, or even make the finals, while the Lakers should still be atleast 2-3 years away to make it out of the first round in the playoffs.

We get his Bird Rights if we trade for him. Owners are willing to pay lux tax if we have a contending team. So I would say, yes.

EDIT: Drax is right (below). I am wrong. I go die in a hole now. Any team can't offer him the super max besides Pacers. Lakers and Celtics on equal footing in that regard.

[Drax]

Can you guys offer George the super max in 2018 if you trade for him? If yes, I can't see him leaving Boston, who could easily make the ECF with him and a decent rebounding big and push Lebron to game 6-7 there, or even make the finals, while the Lakers should still be atleast 2-3 years away to make it out of the first round in the playoffs.

We can offer him the fifth year if he and his bird rights would be traded here, but not the 2017 new CBA supermax (i belive 35% of the cap). You can only offer that deal if the player was drafted by your franchise or you have traded for him during his first two year of his rookie deal.

[Gant]

I honestly believe the Celtics won't be in on either George or Butler.

1. I think Ainge knows already that George won't resign with the Celtics

2. Butler is simply not that much of an upgrade for what the Celtics would have to give up to get him. Bradley outplaying him in this last series proved Ainge was right not giving up a lot to get him.

I believe this off-season is all about making a huge push for Hayward or Griffin.

George: You'd think this would be the case but they went hard after him only two months ago, so unless something's changed they'll still be after him. (They won't trade much for him without assurance he'll re-sign.)

Butler: He was playing a little hurt. At least he had a back problem in Game 6. Bradley was great on him, and he was never full-ninja Butler who gives both Cleveland and Toronto a lot of trouble. The Bulls likely keep him though. Their front office seems to make trade decisions based on money, not on common sense.
But you never know; the Celtics did try to get him as well and they will try again.

Hayward and Griffin: Yes those are the guys. Hayward more likely. Getting one of these two and keeping the pick is a good scenario.

No doubt the Celtics are thinking-
One from column A (George, Butler or another star via trade; or use the pick)
and
One from column B (Hayward or Griffin).

[Andrew McCeltic]

Avery keeps getting better, and he could deserve legit star status in the fall if he manages to add another layer to his game - like, Bruce Bowen with Monta Ellis moves.

But Butler is a better player- swap him and Avery in this series, swap their offensive responsibilities, and their help, and Butler looks like a star, Avery like he's in over his head. Context does matter.

[leper-con]

What do people think of the reverse KG trade.
We trade Brown the 17 and 18 for Blake and Chris Paul.
We get the best Point guard the game and power forward/ modern day centre in return.

the core stays together, we keep smart and Bradley and IT.
We still have crowder.

[Andrew McCeltic]

What do people think of the reverse KG trade.
We trade Brown the 17 and 18 for Blake and Chris Paul.
We get the best Point guard the game and power forward/ modern day centre in return.

the core stays together, we keep smart and Bradley and IT.
We still have crowder.

Nope - Blake is injured, Paul is aging, they don't fit well together stylistically or psychologically- we could also sign Blake outright if we wanted to. Both drafts also have guys on their potential level, on rookie contracts.

[Valid]

Avery keeps getting better, and he could deserve legit star status in the fall if he manages to add another layer to his game - like, Bruce Bowen with Monta Ellis moves.

But Butler is a better player- swap him and Avery in this series, swap their offensive responsibilities, and their help, and Butler looks like a star, Avery like he's in over his head. Context does matter.

Yeah. I love Bradley and he was an absolute monster in this series, but let's be real here: in a vacuum, you take Butler 10 out of 10 times. They are not even in the same class as players.

[bucknersrevenge]

Trading Bradley in a Paul George trade makes no sense. You would want to end up with IT/AB/George backcourt.

And please don't anyone say Jaylen Brown or Fultz because they are light years away

I think it would be Crowder and one of those two though because they are young and Indy would be starting over. Otherwise agree. Afterward you trade for or sign a vet big to play next to Al. then again, maybe you move AB if you don't want to pay him 18-20mil per after next season and you're wiling to open up space for Jaylen.

How does an IT/Jaylen/PG13 threesome strike you?

Jaylen won't be ready for 3-4 years. IT and George are not going to wait that long

Well what do you mean by "ready"? He played what, 17mpg this season. Could he play a decent 25 or so starting within 3-4 years? I think so. I don't think IT and George are "waiting" on him. JB is there to support them, not the other way around. And he won't need to do too much to do that. Cut off their action and playmaking and finish plays at the rim and hit a few jumpshots. And play some defense. If IT and George are playing with Al and has the support of Marcus (who would probably finish games just like he does now) if he doesn't get traded I don't see a problem there. You don't have to offer up AB, but if moving him gives us a big man upgrade maybe, you could consider it. And again, if you're Danny and you don't want to burn an asset for nothing, then you certainly keep it in mind.

[165bows]

I honestly believe the Celtics won't be in on either George or Butler.

1. I think Ainge knows already that George won't resign with the Celtics

2. Butler is simply not that much of an upgrade for what the Celtics would have to give up to get him. Bradley outplaying him in this last series proved Ainge was right not giving up a lot to get him.

I believe this off-season is all about making a huge push for Hayward or Griffin.

George: You'd think this would be the case but they went hard after him only two months ago, so unless something's changed they'll still be after him. (They won't trade much for him without assurance he'll re-sign.)

Butler: He was playing a little hurt. At least he had a back problem in Game 6. Bradley was great on him, and he was never full-ninja Butler who gives both Cleveland and Toronto a lot of trouble. The Bulls likely keep him though. Their front office seems to make trade decisions based on money, not on common sense.
But you never know; the Celtics did try to get him as well and they will try again.

Hayward and Griffin: Yes those are the guys. Hayward more likely. Getting one of these two and keeping the pick is a good scenario.

No doubt the Celtics are thinking-
One from column A (George, Butler or another star via trade; or use the pick)
and
One from column B (Hayward or Griffin).

Yup. This is pretty much it.

Hope they keep the '18 pick though.

[Fencer reregistered]

In the Hayward/keep-the-pick scenario, there might not be that much trading at all. That scenario goes something like:

A. Amir and Jerebko renounced. Zeller's option declined. MLE set aside to be used on one replacement, possibly one of the guys just cut loose.

B. Young & Mickey presumably gone.

C. One other current rotation guy goes so as to create cap space. If it's Kelly, it's by renouncing him. For roster balance, it's more likely a perimeter guy traded. If the pick is used on somebody other than Fultz/Ball, then it's probably used on an SF, so let's say Crowder is traded for future draft considerations.

D. So far we have 6 roster spots opening up. That can be raised to 7 if Jackson is cut loose, e.g. as an add-on to the previously mentioned trade. 8 if Green is cut loose, but after the past week I think he stays.

E. 4 of those slots are used by Hayward, the MLE big man, the high lottery pick rookie, and Zizic. That's up to 5 if Yabu is also signed, and I think he probably is in that scenario.

F. So our roster has now gotten to 13 guys:

Bigs: Horford, Olynyk, Zizic, Yabu, MLE big man
SFs: Hayward, Brown, high-pick rookie, Green
Gs: Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Rozier

G. There's room for 4 more FAs or rookies, provided that 2 are on the new split-contract deal. 1 of those 4 is presumably Nader. Not much in the way of cap room/exceptions is available to pay them. The Cs have several 2nd rounders to draft or trade for 1 or more of those guys.

H. For salary reasons alone, an impactful trade to acquire somebody else can probably only be made by sending out one or more of Horford, Brown, Thomas, Bradley, Smart or Rozier. Salary coming in could be somewhat higher than that sent out among guys on that list, but not by a lot. (That's true whether they're traded after the Hayward signing by themselves, or beforehand as part of the Crowder cap-clearing deal.) If that's a young player on a rookie deal, then why is he available in trade if he's good enough to be impactful? If it's anybody else, why isn't he earning more money?

Danny has beaten those odds before, notably in the case of IT. So he might try again. But because of the limited cap room that could be created, it's hard to see how he'd wind up acquiring more than 1-2 of that kind of guy.

[ConstableGeneva]

Pelicans among potential strong suitors for Jimmy Butler this summer.

What?! How do people come up with this stuff? Trade with what assets? Ajinca, Solomon Hill, and a 2025 1st rounder?

[reload141]

Pelicans among potential strong suitors for Jimmy Butler this summer.

What?! How do people come up with this stuff? Trade with what assets? Ajinca, Solomon Hill, and a 2025 1st rounder?

One of Chicagos "in the know" writers has stated that their FO has committed to Butler... that would be HILARIOUS if true.
GarPax are truly poison for that franchise... I kind of feel sorry for some of their fans.

[bucknersrevenge]

In the Hayward/keep-the-pick scenario, there might not be that much trading at all. That scenario goes something like:

A. Amir and Jerebko renounced. Zeller's option declined. MLE set aside to be used on one replacement, possibly one of the guys just cut loose.

B. Young & Mickey presumably gone.

C. One other current rotation guy goes so as to create cap space. If it's Kelly, it's by renouncing him. For roster balance, it's more likely a perimeter guy traded. If the pick is used on somebody other than Fultz/Ball, then it's probably used on an SF, so let's say Crowder is traded for future draft considerations.

D. So far we have 6 roster spots opening up. That can be raised to 7 if Jackson is cut loose, e.g. as an add-on to the previously mentioned trade. 8 if Green is cut loose, but after the past week I think he stays.

E. 4 of those slots are used by Hayward, the MLE big man, the high lottery pick rookie, and Zizic. That's up to 5 if Yabu is also signed, and I think he probably is in that scenario.

F. So our roster has now gotten to 13 guys:

Bigs: Horford, Olynyk, Zizic, Yabu, MLE big man
SFs: Hayward, Brown, high-pick rookie, Green
Gs: Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Rozier

G. There's room for 4 more FAs or rookies, provided that 2 are on the new split-contract deal. 1 of those 4 is presumably Nader. Not much in the way of cap room/exceptions is available to pay them. The Cs have several 2nd rounders to draft or trade for 1 or more of those guys.

H. For salary reasons alone, an impactful trade to acquire somebody else can probably only be made by sending out one or more of Horford, Brown, Thomas, Bradley, Smart or Rozier. Salary coming in could be somewhat higher than that sent out among guys on that list, but not by a lot. (That's true whether they're traded after the Hayward signing by themselves, or beforehand as part of the Crowder cap-clearing deal.) If that's a young player on a rookie deal, then why is he available in trade if he's good enough to be impactful? If it's anybody else, why isn't he earning more money?

Danny has beaten those odds before, notably in the case of IT. So he might try again. But because of the limited cap room that could be created, it's hard to see how he'd wind up acquiring more than 1-2 of that kind of guy.

To make your scenario work, Crowder to the Knicks for Kyle O'Quinn Maurice Ndour and Marshall Plumlee. Salaries work and you can cut the other two guys. O'Quinn becomes a solid Amir replacement who's athletic, can rebound, block a few shots, shoot a little. And now you've give yourself 2.6 mil in space to work with.

[TheOGJabroni]

For the longest time, I was simply wanting to go after Hayward because he wouldn't cost us anything but cap space vs going after Butler/George, which would cost us major assets. After watching this first round of the playoffs, I think I want Hayward because he is simply the best player of the three.

[BRUNiNHO91]

For the longest time, I was simply wanting to go after Hayward because he wouldn't cost us anything but cap space vs going after Butler/George, which would cost us major assets. After watching this first round of the playoffs, I think I want Hayward because he is simply the best player of the three.

I think the guy would be a huge get. I still think PG13 and Butler are better two way players, but like you said to get him while still keeping AB, Smart, Bradley, Jae, Jaylen and the BKN picks is massive.

Thinking about FA now..I think Boston makes a run at Paul Millsap if they miss out on Hayward. I really do. I thought Griffin was PLan B, but after hiss injury I think Millsap will slide in there as option B. Maybe a max deal for shorter years or something..I understand the thought that Millsap and Horford struggled against the Cavs, but I think with the collection of wings we have and the ability to put a big time trade target like Butler on the roster..we might go for that. He checks like every single box that Stevens looks for in a player and he's a bonafide offensive stud.

[GoCeltics123]

I feel like if DeAndre Jordan didn't have such a big contract he'd be awesome

Though the free throws would be painful