The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[SmartWentCrazy]

I wonder if we will see Crowder or Bradleys Names in rumours closer to the deadline.... I imagine if one or both are moved then the Celtics must think they are a legit chance at Gordon Hayward in the offseason... just interesting to see

Hayward to Boston has legs. It's almost common knowledge in the hoops circles to be honest with you. However, Utah has a good team and could absolutely make the playoffs, make some noise even and do everything they can to retain Hayward.

Yep, Zach Lowe hinted very strongly at this on his podcast in early November.

Hayward already tried to leave once. Would be shocked if he didn't try it again.

[165bows]

I wonder if we will see Crowder or Bradleys Names in rumours closer to the deadline.... I imagine if one or both are moved then the Celtics must think they are a legit chance at Gordon Hayward in the offseason... just interesting to see

Hayward to Boston has legs. It's almost common knowledge in the hoops circles to be honest with you. However, Utah has a good team and could absolutely make the playoffs, make some noise even and do everything they can to retain Hayward.

Yep, Zach Lowe hinted very strongly at this on his podcast in early November.

Hayward already tried to leave once. Would be shocked if he didn't try it again.

Depending on how the details shake out, the new CBA could make it easier to accomplish. Now that deals can be extended after 2 seasons, the 4th year v. 5th year distinctions in signing with a new v. old team may be a lot less persuasive.

Just depends on if the Celtics will be in position to take advantage of it.

[ddb]

Personally I would love to see Ainge swing a blockbuster for Anthony Davis somehow....Although that's super unlikely because he's locked into a long-term deal and is such a young player still. Doesn't make a ton of sense for Demps to move him unless he is absolutely blown away.
Beyond that I feel like Cousins/Hayward combo is the most likely scenario joining IT/Horford.

I feel like if Ainge is willing to give up the BK picks then he could secure Cousins. And then if he plays his cards right with the cap he could then land Hayward in free agency.

Wait until Zeller can be dealt and then move Zeller, Amir, Jaylen Brown, Kelly Olynyk and both BK's for Cousins, Casspi, WCS.

IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Casspi-Jonas-WCS
Jackson-Young-Mickey

I'd have to run numbers but I believe we'd have enough to go after Hayward in the offseason.

17-18 opening day

IT-Bradley-Hayward-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-WCS
Yabu/Zizic/Mickey/Young/Jackson/Nader

That team is absolutely loaded.

rough math has the following players at around 70million (IT, AB, Crowder, Horford, Cousins, WCS, Jackson, Young, Smart, Mickey, Rozier), which would leave room for a max slot for Hayward and then contracts to Nader, Zizic, Yabu. I'm sure Ainge and Zarren can figure it out.... they would have to think about IT & AB extensions too.. they could simply go over the cap and pay tax for a season or 2...also Cousins would be a free agent in a couple years too.

[Westy]

I've been pondering a scenario similar to ddb's but the sticking point is creating cap space for Hayward. The C's would be about $10 mm over the threshold to sign Hayward as a FA, which would me am dealing one more core player plus some small deals, or renouncing a few of the holds from among small non- guarantees (Jackson, Mickey) or renouncing one or both of Yabu and Zizic, if they cannot trade them. All trades would be for future picks.

[Westy]

I've been pondering a scenario similar to ddb's but the sticking point is creating cap space for Hayward. The C's would be about $10 mm over the threshold to sign Hayward as a FA, which would mean dealing one more core player plus some small deals, or renouncing a few of the holds from among small non- guarantees (Jackson, Mickey) or renouncing one or both of Yabu and Zizic, if they cannot trade them. All trades would be for future picks.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[CelticFaninLBC]

I feel like Cousins/Hayward combo is the most likely scenario joining IT/Horford. t

I feel like if Ainge is willing to give up the BK picks then he could secure Cousins. And then if he plays his cards right with the cap he could then land Hayward in free agency.

Wait until Zeller can be dealt and then move Zeller, Amir, Jaylen Brown, Kelly Olynyk and both BK's for Cousins, Casspi, WCS.

IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Casspi-Jonas-WCS
Jackson-Young-Mickey

I'd have to run numbers but I believe we'd have enough to go after Hayward in the offseason.

17-18 opening day

IT-Bradley-Hayward-Horford-Cousins
Rozier-Smart-Crowder-WCS
Yabu/Zizic/Mickey/Young/Jackson/Nader

That team is absolutely loaded.

rough math has the following players at around 70million (IT, AB, Crowder, Horford, Cousins, WCS, Jackson, Young, Smart, Mickey, Rozier), which would leave room for a max slot for Hayward and then contracts to Nader, Zizic, Yabu. I'm sure Ainge and Zarren can figure it out.... they would have to think about IT & AB extensions too.. they could simply go over the cap and pay tax for a season or 2...also Cousins would be a free agent in a couple years too.

If the 2017-18 cap is $102 million, they'd be over. I believe a maxed Hayward, with Cousins, Horford, IT, AB, Smart, Crowder = $100 million already...

If they move Bradley to Philly in a 3 way deal, they'd have some more financial flexibility. Give SAC Philly's assets, Olynyk, and either BKN 2018 & Brown or BKN 2017 & 2018. I wouldn't give them all 3 BKN picks in a row.

2017-18 Starters - Cousins, Horford, Crowder, Hayward and IT
Bench - Brown, Smart, Rozier ?????

[CelticFaninLBC]

I've been pondering a scenario similar to ddb's but the sticking point is creating cap space for Hayward. The C's would be about $10 mm over the threshold to sign Hayward as a FA, which would me am dealing one more core player plus some small deals, or renouncing a few of the holds from among small non- guarantees (Jackson, Mickey) or renouncing one or both of Yabu and Zizic, if they cannot trade them. All trades would be for future picks.

Can Yabu and Zizic stay overseas another year?

[SMTBSI]

Read on Twitter

Very glad to see that this is starting to get some traction. This offseason was the first time I've seen it get anywhere near that bad. It seems like a bunch of websites just collectively came to understand that they can drive clicks and generate ad revenue while skipping the whole journalism part. Which, is smart. But disgusting.

The morning ledger must have been laughing their ***es off, when one of their made-up ideas made it all the way to Scal and the national media.


I strongly recommend everyone take a few minutes to read the article linked in that tweet.

[NBA Fiend]

Just curious because I'm trying to figure out who who fans of the Kings believe would win in a bidding war for Cousins, the C's or the Suns. I know fans don't make decisions but I'm wondering what you think Ainges take it or leave it offer would be for Cousins. I'm thinking for the Suns they offer Knight/Len/Warren Suns 2017 (unprotected) Heat 2019 (unprotected). Thanks

[ConstableGeneva]

Just curious because I'm trying to figure out who who fans of the Kings believe would win in a bidding war for Cousins, the C's or the Suns. I know fans don't make decisions but I'm wondering what you think Ainges take it or leave it offer would be for Cousins. I'm thinking for the Suns they offer Knight/Len/Warren Suns 2017 (unprotected) Heat 2019 (unprotected). Thanks

I don't think Ainge will offer more than that. Suns win with that bid.

[reload141]

Just curious because I'm trying to figure out who who fans of the Kings believe would win in a bidding war for Cousins, the C's or the Suns. I know fans don't make decisions but I'm wondering what you think Ainges take it or leave it offer would be for Cousins. I'm thinking for the Suns they offer Knight/Len/Warren Suns 2017 (unprotected) Heat 2019 (unprotected). Thanks

I don't think Ainge will offer more than that. Suns win with that bid.

Don't think Suns will offer Warren he's really broken out this year and they would want to hold him...

[SMTBSI]

Edit: Bah. Too much of a risk with Zizic coming over.

How about this. It's weird and makes me uncomfortable. (I'm also very bad at valuing picks appropriately in trade proposals, and this is especially unusual. So, help me out.)

Boston In:
- Jokic or Nurkic

Denver In:
- Right to swap their '17 1st with the better of BOS/BRK
- Right to swap their '18 1st with the BRK 1st
- Amir Johnson (competent) or Jordan Mickey (cheap)

In other words,
In 2017:
- DEN gets the best of DEN/BRK/BOS
- BRK gets the lesser of what is left of BRK/BOS
- BOS gets what is left (DEN or BRK unless BRK finishes with a better record than us)
In 2018:
- DEN gets the better of DEN/BRK
- BOS gets the lesser
I'm assuming they'll take Amir as 20mpg of competent PF/C so they're not suddenly super shallow there, but if they don't want to take on the salary, we can just slip them a Mickey instead.


This is a massive boom or bust trade for both teams: each team has a chance of reaping a ton of value, or getting nothing at all.

Boston best case: DEN finishes worse than BRK both years and BRK doesn't leap in the lotto. We get our future starting C for free.
Boston middle case: DEN and BRK finish in the same tier. We have to move down a couple slots one or both years.
Boston worst case: Have to convey a lotto winning pick to Denver for a non-star.
Salt in the wound: The guy they sent us busts.

Denver best case: BRK trades Lopez and craters, while Denver gets healthy and rallies. Denver winds up swapping both years and jumping substantially.
Denver middle case: DEN and BRK finish in the same tier. They get to move up a couple slots one or both years.
Denver worst case: DEN finishes worse than BRK both years and BRK doesn't leap in the lotto, yielding them no value at all.
Salt in the wound: They have to watch the guy they gave us break out into a star.

[Kolkmania]

What about Jordan Hill? Played just 2 games and 11 minutes for the Wolves so far due to their logjam in the frontcourt with Towns, Dieng, Aldrich, Payne and Bjelica. I know he's not a game changer or anything, but could be acquired for a small price. Also on a two year contract with a team option, so he wouldn't hurt any cap flexibility.

Last three seasons +20 DRB% and I really liked him last year at Indiana. Would be a nice alternative if Bogut isn't available.

[cdubbz]

Warriors trade: David West OR Anderson Varajao (Both expiring contracts)
Celtics Trade: Gerald Green

[Drax]

Warriors trade: David West OR Anderson Varajao (Both expiring contracts)
Celtics Trade: Gerald Green:)

I'll take David West for Gerald Green. Done deal.

[cdubbz]

Warriors trade: David West OR Anderson Varajao (Both expiring contracts)
Celtics Trade: Gerald Green:)

I'll take David West for Gerald Green. Done deal.

How is Green this season anyways? Haven't seen much of him at all, just seen he's playing 10mpg.

A lot of posters on my board are saying West most likey wouldn't get dealt -- messed up to trade a veteran who we brought in talking about competing for a championship. I can understand that.

[165bows]

Just curious because I'm trying to figure out who who fans of the Kings believe would win in a bidding war for Cousins, the C's or the Suns. I know fans don't make decisions but I'm wondering what you think Ainges take it or leave it offer would be for Cousins. I'm thinking for the Suns they offer Knight/Len/Warren Suns 2017 (unprotected) Heat 2019 (unprotected). Thanks

I don't think Ainge will offer more than that. Suns win with that bid.

Can one of the worst teams in the league gamble on spending that much on a guy with a year and half left on his deal, is the real question here.

[Kolkmania]

Just curious because I'm trying to figure out who who fans of the Kings believe would win in a bidding war for Cousins, the C's or the Suns. I know fans don't make decisions but I'm wondering what you think Ainges take it or leave it offer would be for Cousins. I'm thinking for the Suns they offer Knight/Len/Warren Suns 2017 (unprotected) Heat 2019 (unprotected). Thanks

I don't think Ainge will offer more than that. Suns win with that bid.

Can one of the worst teams in the league gamble on spending that much on a guy with a year and half left on his deal, is the real question here.

Knight and Len are expendable since both are (R)FA's this summer (edit: Banks2Pierce correctly stated that Knight has already signed a contract, doesn't change the fact that he's expendable since he's been outplayed by Bledsoe and Booker) and they already have plenty of (better) options with Bledoe, Ulis, Booker and Barbosa as guards and Chandler, Marquese, Dudley, Tucker and Bender for the PF/C spot. So they're basically giving up TJ Warren, Suns 2017 (with Cousins that pick won't be as low) and Heat (2019). That doesn't seem that much to me.

The real question is if they would even be interested in Cousins since he's not fitting with the current stage of their rebuilding process. Their main prospects Booker, Marquese and Bender need minutes and opportunities to develop. That's why I don't think they will consider Cousins, they would be better off keeping Warren and the Suns 2017 pick.

[Banks2Pierce]

The real question is if they would even be interested in Cousins since he's not fitting with the current stage of their rebuilding process. Their main prospects Booker, Marquese and Bender need minutes and opportunities to develop. That's why I don't think they will consider Cousins, they would be better off keeping Warren and the Suns 2017 pick.

They have a historically impatient owner and McDonough may already be on the hot seat. Knight's locked in for a long term deal at a reasonable rate, but I don't really like him. Cousins would be a fit there because he can do it all and basically pair with any type of big. I don't think the return will be good enough unless Phoenix is bad enough in February that Cousins can't bump them up out of the high lottery.

What is the actual price going to be for him? Ainge alluded to not wanting a leader like him a month or two ago. He's so good that anything that doesn't completely deplete our assets has to be considered. The concern would be doing a move that leaves us with close to our final product, but we have so many pieces at this point where that'd be hard to conceivably do.