Ainge Retires - Stevens to Front Office - Celtics search for New Head Coach

Post #1581 » by **Froob** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:23 pm

I'm kinda out on Chauncey after reading about the rape case from around 2000...I don't know what went on there but rather not be involved in whatever happened there. I would hope Brad and co if they do with Billups do their homework there and dig into it first. I can't find many details on it.

Sam Cassell is another former player that's been an assistant coach for sometime and used to be here. Cassell is my number one guy right now.

Post #1582 » by **sully00** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:25 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Wyc doesn't save any money by promoting Brad to do nothing. it's sunk money. If Brad Stevens is appointed POBO that's because Wyc believes he's the man for the job. You can disagree with that decision, but it's ridiculous and illogical to say Wyc saves money by promoting Brad when simply firing him would cost the same.

That's not the case at all. It is only sunk money if Brad doesn't come up with another opportunity he wants enough to take elsewhere for him to agree to drop the remainder of his C's contract.

Yes and no. One of the elements of the Basketball Operations gig is dealing with ownership. Besides Wyc and Steve there are at least 11 other investor "owners" and some of those are groups as well and I have heard that there may be as many 40 people who walk around as if they own at least a part of the Celtics. They are going to want to attend meetings and get face to face with basketball operations people. They will also need to sell decisions and explain outcomes. While Wyc likes having a public side he has no interest in being the face of Basketball Ops especially since he can't fire himself.

Brad is going to be great at that part of the job as well as media relations part. While it is easy to nit pick decisions that work or don't work they are almost always done for a reason. The best example of this is Daniel Theis.

Dumping Theis at the deadline was a bad basketball decision but a good financial decision. I am sure this is one of the decisions that Brad disagreed with at the time. He now gets to benefit from that decision by not having to worry about the repeater tax. His primary job now is to put talent around the two young stars he helped to develop as their coach. They are signed long term and the direction of the organization is pretty clear.

I was pretty solidly behind Ainge for the most part but it did seem to feel like he had lost touch with NBA talent a bit. Hopefully Brad's coaching opportunities will give him a better feel for players and how they may fit in Boston.

Once guys are successful in the NBA they rarely want to go back to college. Brad chose not to chase opportunities when he was at Butler. The recruiting game sucks now especially with the competition of guys just going to the Developmental League or Europe its really just not an attractive opportunity anymore if you have the NBA option.

I actually believe him at his word that he was ready to step away from coaching even though he wouldn't have unless they fired him.

BK_2020 · Post #1583 » by **BK_2020** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:29 pm

greenroom31 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:
Disinformation wrote:
Devil's advocate: That's only true if Brad stays for his entire contract. If he decides he doesn't like the job and/or wants to get back to coaching and leaves by his own choice, that's where the savings are.

Wyc can accomplish this by appointing him to be a janitor or a similarly unimportant position.

Have you ever heard of the term "material diminution"?

If not, google it. Brad could make a claim on that basis and get his money back. It's more common than you think. I used it after one of my companies got acquired to get my full payout right away rather than waiting out my term.

Sorry what is your point? My point is that if the only thing the Celtics wanted to do was to remove Brad, they didn't have to promote him to PoBo. For example Isiah Thomas became the Knicks' advisor/consultant after he was no longer wanted as PoBo.

return2glory · Post #1584 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:29 pm

The thing I love about Lawson is what they are saying about her. That she is has a great basketball mind. I always felt like Brad was and is a basketball genius. That’s what they are saying about Lawson.

For me, that puts her among the top candidates. That and the fact players respect her.

Post #1585 » by **Froob** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:30 pm

Interesting that Cassell has been with Doc since 2014 and followed him to Philly. I'm sure Doc would give us the deets on Cassell if Brad and Wyc call. Also played for Doc in 2008.

Celts17Pride · Post #1586 » by **Celts17Pride** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:30 pm

I personally think it's 90-100% going to be Kara Lawson as the next head coach of the Boston Celtics but we will see.

Jakeopp · Post #1587 » by **Jakeopp** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:34 pm

Froob wrote:I'm kinda out on Chauncey after reading about the rape case from around 2000...I don't know what went on there but rather not be involved in whatever happened there. I would hope Brad and co if they do with Billups do their homework there and dig into it first. I can't find many details on it.

Sam Cassell is another former player that's been an assistant coach for sometime and used to be here. Cassell is my number one guy right now.

I'm in the same boat. There's basically no information on the case, but it certainly doesn't look good. If he was guilty, I want him as far away from this team as possible. Plenty of better/more experienced candidates available anyways.

Post #1588 » by **Froob** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:37 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:I personally think it's 90-100% going to be Kara Lawson as the next head coach of the Boston Celtics but we will see.

Has she only coached us for a year and then Duke Women or does she have any other background coaching? Lack of experience certainly isn't a deal breaker in the NBA and numerous guys have been successful before. I'm just trying to get the whole background. I'm guessing she's just that amazing of a person even despite the lack of experience.

Cassell is number one for me based on being both a former player and has put in a decade of work coaching. But, if we do break the glass ceiling, I'd be proud as fan to see it.

bucknersrevenge · Post #1589 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:38 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Wyc doesn't save any money by promoting Brad to do nothing. it's sunk money. If Brad Stevens is appointed POBO that's because Wyc believes he's the man for the job. You can disagree with that decision, but it's ridiculous and illogical to say Wyc saves money by promoting Brad when simply firing him would cost the same.

Not sure if this was indirectly a response to my post or not since it didn't quote me. If it isn't, just ignore this.

I wasn't saying that Wyc saves money by promoting Brad. I was saying Wyc didn't want to pay Brad NOT to work for the Celtics. Correct me if I'm wrong, and someone familiar with coach contracts might know, but if Brad resigns from the job, Wyc doesn't have to pay him anymore. But if Wyc fires him, he does. That's the point I'm making. Wyc can certainly spin it all he wants that Brad can do a job in this role. Ad he might. But if Wyc still wanted Brad as the coach, he would've just replaced Danny with another candidate and kept Brad as coach. I don't believe for a second that POBO was a position Brad ever aspired to. And when both Brad and Wyc were asked "why is Brad better as the POBO than coach?" neither really gave a straight answer I thought. Wyc wanted change at both spots and he got it, sort of. But nobody gets fired into a bigger role.

Jakeopp · Post #1590 » by **Jakeopp** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:42 pm

Froob wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:I personally think it's 90-100% going to be Kara Lawson as the next head coach of the Boston Celtics but we will see.

Has she only coached us for a year and then Duke Women or does she have any other background coaching? Lack of experience certainly isn't a deal breaker in the NBA and numerous guys have been successful before. I'm just trying to get the whole background. I'm guessing she's just that amazing of a person even despite the lack of experience.

Cassell is number one for me based on being both a former player and has put in a decade of work coaching. But, if we do break the glass ceiling, I'd be proud as fan to see it.

On Lawson, I believe she went from...

Playing > Broadcasting > Coaching Celtics > Coaching Duke

So her coaching experience is definitely limited.

Post #1591 » by **Froob** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:43 pm

Ainge on Toucher and Rich said Kara would be unlikely to leave Duke, thinks highly of her but, they seem to want a more experienced person. It's not his decision though he did state.

Jakeopp · Post #1592 » by **Jakeopp** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:43 pm

Froob wrote:Interesting that Cassell has been with Doc since 2014 and followed him to Philly. I'm sure Doc would give us the deets on Cassell if Brad and Wyc call. Also played for Doc in 2008.

Any reservations on hiring a Doc Rivers assistant? He doesn't seem very popular among Celtics fans after his time in Boston ended.

Fierce1 · Post #1593 » by **Fierce1** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:45 pm

Froob wrote:Ainge on Toucher and Rich said Kara would be unlikely to leave Duke, thinks highly of her but, they seem to want a more experienced person. It's not his decision though he did state.

Rick Pitino has a ton of experience.
:lol:

BK_2020 · Post #1594 » by **BK_2020** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:45 pm

Mitigation of damages is a fundamental principle of contract law. Contract damages (such as being fired 1 year into a 5 year employment contract) can and in most cases have to be mitigated by the person suffering the damages, i.e. even if Brad was outright fired, Brad would have a duty to find a similar job instead of sitting around and collecting Celtics paychecks.
Wyc has no financial incentive to promote Brad to the most important position in the Celtics organization.

Fierce1 · Post #1595 » by **Fierce1** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:48 pm

Wyc promoting Brad means Brad has a good relationship with the Celtic owners.

Apparently ownership likes Brad.

bucknersrevenge · Post #1596 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:49 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
BK_2020 wrote:Wyc can accomplish this by appointing him to be a janitor or a similarly unimportant position.

Have you ever heard of the term "material diminution"?

If not, google it. Brad could make a claim on that basis and get his money back. It's more common than you think. I used it after one of my companies got acquired to get my full payout right away rather than waiting out my term.

Sorry what is your point? My point is that if the only thing the Celtics wanted to do was to remove Brad, they didn't have to promote him to PoBo. For example Isiah Thomas became the Knicks' advisor/consultant after he was no longer wanted as PoBo.

Nobody is arguing this. There are 2 separate points here.

1) Brad's experience as coach and overall knowledge of the game with the help of the pre-existing staff lend well to him handling the duties of POBO

2) Brad was expedited into this role by Wyc because he wanted a change at coach and didn't think it was working anymore but didn't want to pay Brad to NOT have anything to do with the organization.

Brad may or may not have been the best person to do the job. The fact that Wyc conducted no due diligence around the league in interviewing other candidates or talking to other NBA exec and former execs around the league, and just shotgunned Brad into a role he doesn't know in front of a very important offseason is telling.

JHTruth · Post #1597 » by **JHTruth** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:56 pm

Jakeopp wrote:
Froob wrote:Interesting that Cassell has been with Doc since 2014 and followed him to Philly. I'm sure Doc would give us the deets on Cassell if Brad and Wyc call. Also played for Doc in 2008.

Any reservations on hiring a Doc Rivers assistant? He doesn't seem very popular among Celtics fans after his time in Boston ended.

I feel Doc is a far superior coach to Brad and would welcome anyone from his staff. But that's just me

bucknersrevenge · Post #1598 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 5:57 pm

BK_2020 wrote:Mitigation of damages is a fundamental principle of contract law. Contract damages (such as being fired 1 year into a 5 year employment contract) can and in most cases have to be mitigated by the person suffering the damages, i.e. even if Brad was outright fired, Brad would have a duty to find a similar job instead of sitting around and collecting Celtics paychecks.
Wyc has no financial incentive to promote Brad to the most important position in the Celtics organization.

You seem to be talking to me while running away so I guess I'll end it here but why would Brad have a "duty" to get a new job if he was fired? The first part of this post is what applies to Wyc. Wyc is most certainly mitigating damage here.

Post #1599 » by **SuperDeluxe** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:02 pm

Froob wrote:Ainge on Toucher and Rich said Kara would be unlikely to leave Duke, thinks highly of her but, they seem to want a more experienced person. It's not his decision though he did state.

Ainge sending Brad encrypted suggestions through the radio.

ddb · Post #1600 » by **ddb** » Thu Jun 3, 2021 6:07 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Jakeopp wrote:
Froob wrote:Interesting that Cassell has been with Doc since 2014 and followed him to Philly. I'm sure Doc would give us the deets on Cassell if Brad and Wyc call. Also played for Doc in 2008.

Any reservations on hiring a Doc Rivers assistant? He doesn't seem very popular among Celtics fans after his time in Boston ended.

I feel Doc is a far superior coach to Brad and would welcome anyone from his staff. But that's just me

If Doc Rivers was the coach of the 18-19 Celtics I think they would have made the finals...Doc was/is the master of managing egos and getting players to buy-in. Brad on the other hand is likely the better X's & O's coach. However, Brad hasn't proven that he can coach egos/superstars.

This is why I think the next head coach will be an up and coming former player...Cassell/Billups...those guys make the most sense because they can look at Tatum or Brown in the eyes and say, "I've done it. I earned this ring....I was around players like you. I've been in your shoes...." If they can be good with X's & O's and buy-in to some analytics as well then it's a great recipe.