Kawhi update thread 2.0

[truth18]

Where do you guys have Kawhi ranked? I have LeBron, KD, AD, then probably Steph. I’m done with Harden, he sucks in the playoffs. Probably put Kawhi 5th.

If healthy he's the second best player in the league. Otherwise top 5/7.

[Froob]

I dunno about y'all but a Kawhi, Bron, PG Laker team would be a threat to beat GS in the West. The thought makes me sick.

It depends on how they flesh out the rest of that roster. They still need more offense to keep up with the Warriors.

True but that team would instantly get potential FAs (ring chasers) lining up to sign there on bargain deals.

*Paging all mid 30’s way past their prime former stars*

[Smitty731]

Can we agree to a sign and trade with Smart before July 1??? Smart on a 14m contract /Brown and 3 picks for Kawhi.

Nope. Not legally anyway.

[Shak_Celts]

Where do you guys have Kawhi ranked? I have LeBron, KD, AD, then probably Steph. I’m done with Harden, he sucks in the playoffs. Probably put Kawhi 5th.

When healthy he’s a top 5 player, MVP candidate.

Man, I really love KL but I still wouldn't do it. Sitting out the season with an "injury" and not doing much talking to people in the organization nor the players really bothers me. Something has to really be going on for SA to even entertain this. Guys like KL don't come on the market and teams usually risk losing these guys instead of trading them, ie Shaq (young and prime years ahead), KD and LBJ (probably AD).

[Smitty731]

Kawhi makes 20.099.189$ in 2018-19.

We need to take back no more than 125% incoming salary vs outgoing salary IIRC.

Does our draft pick at 27 counts toward outgoing salary? If that's the case that's 1.367.000$ without adding 20% from what I understand the New CBA doesn't allow the loopholes from past years that you can wait to sign the player until you use your capspace then go over it by signing your draft pick. Is it only the teams with caproom that this effect or any team?

Jaylen Brown - 5.169.969$
Marcus Morris - 5.375.000$
G.Yabusele - 2.667.600$ (last year guaranteed is 18-19)
A.Nader - 1.378.242$ (cut date August 1st)

=14.590.811$ x 1.25 = 18.238.514$ which is ~ 1.9 million short.

Where are we going to find that 1.9 million, while keeping Rozier and Smart, repeat, in a scenario where we keep Rozier and Smart. Even if we add number 27 it's going to be short assuming it's 100% of the cap hold.

Also idk if Kawhi has a trade kicker? but he probably needs to waive it for a trade to go through.

The 1st round draft pick counts as $0 until the player is signed. When the player is signed, he then counts for whatever amount he signed for (between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale slot. The challenge then is you can't trade him for 30 days. That is what held up the Love/Wiggins deal.

What changed in the current CBA is that the cap hold for first round picks is now 120% of the rookie scale slot vs 100%. Teams used to wait to sign those players until they finished using all the rest of their cap space. Now, there is no reason to wait. A big reason this change was made is that teams wanted players available for summer league without signing insurance waivers.

thanks, I added 20% to the cap hold and we're still short of 225k but what about players like Larkin, can the C's s&t him if they only have early bird rights? He isn't likely to get more than the vet minimum anyway so only obstacle would be him agreeing to go to SA.

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

[Froob]

The 1st round draft pick counts as $0 until the player is signed. When the player is signed, he then counts for whatever amount he signed for (between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale slot. The challenge then is you can't trade him for 30 days. That is what held up the Love/Wiggins deal.

What changed in the current CBA is that the cap hold for first round picks is now 120% of the rookie scale slot vs 100%. Teams used to wait to sign those players until they finished using all the rest of their cap space. Now, there is no reason to wait. A big reason this change was made is that teams wanted players available for summer league without signing insurance waivers.

thanks, I added 20% to the cap hold and we're still short of 225k but what about players like Larkin, can the C's s&t him if they only have early bird rights? He isn't likely to get more than the vet minimum anyway so only obstacle would be him agreeing to go to SA.

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

Bogans was so incredibly lucky. Didn’t even make him suit up for the whole year. Didn’t the rules change since then?

[Jakeopp]

My prediction is the trade that is going to be discussed is:

Irving, Morris, Yabusele, #27 and Memphis pick
for
Leonard and Mills

Rozier, Mills and possibly Smart will handle the point.

Flame away!

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

[Marvel]

Where do you guys have Kawhi ranked? I have LeBron, KD, AD, then probably Steph. I’m done with Harden, he sucks in the playoffs. Probably put Kawhi 5th.

2nd when healthy. Two way guy with elite offense.

[Smitty731]

thanks, I added 20% to the cap hold and we're still short of 225k but what about players like Larkin, can the C's s&t him if they only have early bird rights? He isn't likely to get more than the vet minimum anyway so only obstacle would be him agreeing to go to SA.

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

Bogans was so incredibly lucky. Didn’t even make him suit up for the whole year. Didn’t the rules change since then?

Nope. Not as far as S&Ts go. They fell largely out of disuse when the entire league had cap space, because teams just signed FAs outright, but the rules are the same.

[rickrolled]

The 1st round draft pick counts as $0 until the player is signed. When the player is signed, he then counts for whatever amount he signed for (between 80% and 120% of the rookie scale slot. The challenge then is you can't trade him for 30 days. That is what held up the Love/Wiggins deal.

What changed in the current CBA is that the cap hold for first round picks is now 120% of the rookie scale slot vs 100%. Teams used to wait to sign those players until they finished using all the rest of their cap space. Now, there is no reason to wait. A big reason this change was made is that teams wanted players available for summer league without signing insurance waivers.

thanks, I added 20% to the cap hold and we're still short of 225k but what about players like Larkin, can the C's s&t him if they only have early bird rights? He isn't likely to get more than the vet minimum anyway so only obstacle would be him agreeing to go to SA.

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

good stuff, jonathan gibson.. would he sign the QO if extended? We'd meet the 125% if hes included.

[Smitty731]

thanks, I added 20% to the cap hold and we're still short of 225k but what about players like Larkin, can the C's s&t him if they only have early bird rights? He isn't likely to get more than the vet minimum anyway so only obstacle would be him agreeing to go to SA.

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

good stuff, jonathan gibson.. would he sign the QO if extended? We'd meet the 125% if hes included.

Almost assuredly he would. That is more money than he would make otherwise. But why would SA want him?

[Celts17Pride]

My prediction is the trade that is going to be discussed is:

Irving, Morris, Yabusele, #27 and Memphis pick
for
Leonard and Mills

Rozier, Mills and possibly Smart will handle the point.

Flame away!

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

We’ll see.

I don’t see the Celtics paying 4 max contracts (Irving, Hayward, Horford and Leonard) with many others needing to be paid soon in Rozier, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes, Tatum, Smart etc.

Golden State doesn’t have 4 max players

[Jakeopp]

1. I don’t think Ainge is going to include both Brown and the kings pick. JMO but he doesn’t overpay in trades and given the situation and Kawhi being a flight risk, this isn’t an all in situation. The sixers are more desperate than the Celtics are.

2. They are going to make negotiations difficult on everyone because they are a quality front office. If the Celtics include Tatum it’s a wrap. They won’t, and I don’t think they shove all the rest of the chips in the table either. Someone is going to outbid them and my money is on Philly

I can see Danny staring with the Memphis/C's own pick instead of the Kings pick, I think it's fair that he may not start with the Kings pick right away. I was unaware that your assumption was that Danny doesn't even offer the Kings pick.

That said tho, I'm all for a firm commitment from Kawhi before I even come to the table with anything. I don't get the logic of it being easier to trade Kyrie or Hayward for Kawhi that others have come up with if Kawhi just leaves in a year; I don't buy that Kyrie's as much of a flight risk as Kawhi (for the Knicks? ) , and Hayward ****ing signed here long term and we're gonna trade him for a guy who supposedly may not want to be here? What? For the most part, I've always assumed any trade meant we ultimately got Kawhi long-term, and I'm not sure there's any other way to really go about it.

Which leads me to the Sixers; why do you believe they're so desperate unless they know for sure Kawhi will stay? Honestly, they don't even have a GM as of now so I don't know who would step in as interim, but they have a bright future too, are they really gonna blow their load for one year of Kawhi and possibly be left with nothing later? I dunno man, it seems like an even further stretch for them than us.

They lost 4-1 to us without Kyrie and Hayward. They know how much ground they need to make up and they aren’t getting Lebron. Yeah I think they are that desperate. They have the cap room and the assets to make a deal, time is now for them

The series was closer than "4-1" implies. I don't think Pop will be interested in Markelle Fultz. They aren't moving Simmons. What other core pieces can they offer? The 10th pick?

[Froob]

Where do you guys have Kawhi ranked? I have LeBron, KD, AD, then probably Steph. I’m done with Harden, he sucks in the playoffs. Probably put Kawhi 5th.

2nd when healthy. Two way guy with elite offense.

Real shame Kawhi went down 2017 WCF. I’m very confident Warriors still win but Kawhi was on a tear. Hopefully we’ll get to see him go toe to toe with Durant in the playoffs.

[rickrolled]

Celtics don't have Early Bird for Larkin, they have Non-Bird. They could include him in a S&T. The challenge is that it would have to be at least a three year deal (only the first year needs to be guaranteed) and it would end up hard capping the Spurs. Not sure they want that.

Remember with S&Ting a FA, this is what the Nets did with Keith Bogans to complete the deal with Boston for Pierce and KG.

good stuff, jonathan gibson.. would he sign the QO if extended? We'd meet the 125% if hes included.

Almost assuredly he would. That is more money than he would make otherwise. But why would SA want him?

we can send cash for his buyout

[Smitty731]

good stuff, jonathan gibson.. would he sign the QO if extended? We'd meet the 125% if hes included.

Almost assuredly he would. That is more money than he would make otherwise. But why would SA want him?

we can send cash for his buyout

Fair enough. That does limit the cash Boston can use for the entirely of the 2018-19 league year, including the 2019 Draft. But easy enough to work around.

[Smitty731]

My prediction is the trade that is going to be discussed is:

Irving, Morris, Yabusele, #27 and Memphis pick
for
Leonard and Mills

Rozier, Mills and possibly Smart will handle the point.

Flame away!

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

We’ll see.

I don’t see the Celtics paying 4 max contracts (Irving, Hayward, Horford and Leonard) with many others needing to be paid soon in Rozier, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes, Tatum, Smart etc.

Golden State doesn’t have 4 max players

Yet.

Which is a big part of why many foresee them eventually breaking up. Perhaps sooner rather than later. That combined with Lacob's comments about "there is a limit to how much we can pay" are going to be factors in just how long that group stays together.

[Jakeopp]

My prediction is the trade that is going to be discussed is:

Irving, Morris, Yabusele, #27 and Memphis pick
for
Leonard and Mills

Rozier, Mills and possibly Smart will handle the point.

Flame away!

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

We’ll see.

I don’t see the Celtics paying 4 max contracts (Irving, Hayward, Horford and Leonard) with many others needing to be paid soon in Rozier, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes, Tatum, Smart etc.

I'm all aboard the "this isn't happening" train.

Too many questions around Kawhi. His injury status, why he didn't play at all last year, his lack of communication with the Spurs organization all of last season, now demanding a trade away from one of the league's best run organizations and coaches. Initial rumors suggest he wants to play in LA, a bottom feeder team.

What's he looking to accomplish with all of this? Is he actually healthy now? Could he have played last year? Is it really so difficult to communicate with your organization and coach while recovering from an injury? Is he more interested in winning championships, or is he just seeking attention? A desire to play in LA suggests the latter. Months ago he claimed he wanted to finish off his career with the Spurs, now he wants out, what changed? Even if he verbally commits to re-signing in Boston, I wouldn't feel easy about it until it's on paper.

[Froob]

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

We’ll see.

I don’t see the Celtics paying 4 max contracts (Irving, Hayward, Horford and Leonard) with many others needing to be paid soon in Rozier, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes, Tatum, Smart etc.

Golden State doesn’t have 4 max players

Yet.

Which is a big part of why many foresee them eventually breaking up. Perhaps sooner rather than later. That combined with Lacob's comments about "there is a limit to how much we can pay" are going to be factors in just how long that group stays together.

Think there’s a chance KD leaves soon from what you’ve heard? I think he’s gone within 3 years. MAYBEEE this off season.

[Jakeopp]

Not happening unless there's legitimate concern that Kyrie wants to play somewhere else instead of re-signing with us.

We’ll see.

I don’t see the Celtics paying 4 max contracts (Irving, Hayward, Horford and Leonard) with many others needing to be paid soon in Rozier, Brown, Morris, Theis, Baynes, Tatum, Smart etc.

Golden State doesn’t have 4 max players

Yet.

Which is a big part of why many foresee them eventually breaking up. Perhaps sooner rather than later. That combined with Lacob's comments about "there is a limit to how much we can pay" are going to be factors in just how long that group stays together.

Wouldn't surprise me to see those clowns continue to take discounts to stay together as long as they can.