The Pursuit of Paul George

[Ed Pinkney]

Lol heard there's Jazz fans that wanted Crowder over Hayward.

Then I definitely have a sign and trade idea for you Jazz Nation!

[pasfru]

Do you have a link for the specifics? The internet is brutal trying to search for specific pieces of the new CBA. Tons of stuff shows up but never the detail that is being search for.
Edit- Oh I get what you are saying. They can renegotiate, or use the 120% in an extension. I'd still be interested in the details if you have them.

Hard to find info for the new CBA, but this is one I've been using for a while. Fact-checking it with other places like Basketball Insider, it seems to be pretty up-to-date.

http://www.celticshub.com/2016/12/18/celtics-friendly-guide-new-cba/#vet-extensions

Based on the chart in the Paul George section of the article, none of the options there increases his upcoming salary. And the traditional extension is way less appealing than if he just played out his contract and became a free agent the following season.

That's why most are suggesting the R&E route where he gets to maximize his profits by opting out after his 9th season to be eligible for the super-max. (See here.)

So the only way I see George agreeing to an extension is via R&E where the Celtics would need to allocate cap space. Am I missing something?

Either that or we roll the dice that he doesn't bolt after one season.

Wasn't suggesting otherwise. Haven't been following the thread much the last 20 or so pages.

20% raise > 5% or 8% raises is all I'm saying.

[tombattor]

You can renegotiate and extend upwards of 120%. Or it can work solely as an extension.

So his salary can't be renegotiated to max next year?

[pasfru]

You can renegotiate and extend upwards of 120%. Or it can work solely as an extension.

So his salary can't be renegotiated to max next year?

We can renegotiate next year's salary for as much as we want. The 20% raise is for the first year of his new extended contract.

Apologies if you guys are talking about something else altogether and got your hopes up for something

[ConstableGeneva]

Hard to find info for the new CBA, but this is one I've been using for a while. Fact-checking it with other places like Basketball Insider, it seems to be pretty up-to-date.

http://www.celticshub.com/2016/12/18/celtics-friendly-guide-new-cba/#vet-extensions

Based on the chart in the Paul George section of the article, none of the options there increases his upcoming salary. And the traditional extension is way less appealing than if he just played out his contract and became a free agent the following season.

That's why most are suggesting the R&E route where he gets to maximize his profits by opting out after his 9th season to be eligible for the super-max. (See here.)

So the only way I see George agreeing to an extension is via R&E where the Celtics would need to allocate cap space. Am I missing something?

Either that or we roll the dice that he doesn't bolt after one season.

Wasn't suggesting otherwise. Haven't been following the thread much the last 20 or so pages.

20% raise > 5% or 8% raises though.

Thanks for the help, FP! About 40 pages of salary/extension talk and we're not even sure George is coming to Boston. This forum is something else lol.

[tombattor]

While risky that he leaves in a year is there anyone still saying we should renegotiate or extend before trading for George? We'd have to increase the trade offer, guy our team further perhaps, and make the max fa pitch even more difficult. I say roll the dice with George as is!

Does that matter? Wouldn't renegotiation happen once he's on the Celtics? So we don't have to tell them.

[tombattor]

You can renegotiate and extend upwards of 120%. Or it can work solely as an extension.

So his salary can't be renegotiated to max next year?

We can renegotiate next year's salary for as much as we want. The 20% raise is for the first year of his new extended contract.

Apologies if you guys are talking about something else altogether and got your hopes up for something

Ah, so raise up to max, then 20% raise the following year, right?

Thanks for the info.

[Green_teamer]

So his salary can't be renegotiated to max next year?

We can renegotiate next year's salary for as much as we want. The 20% raise is for the first year of his new extended contract.

Apologies if you guys are talking about something else altogether and got your hopes up for something

Ah, so raise up to max, then 20% raise the following year, right?

Thanks for the info.

We don't even Have to raise to max..if we raise him to 25m this year and 30m next year he still makes more money then if he played out his contract and signed a 2 + 1

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

If I'm the Pacers and feel like the Celtics have the best offer and am probably going to take it, wait until free agency has started. If we sign someone, theoricallty we will give up a little extra for PG, if we don't theoretically we may also give a little more for PG.

As much as they will get cents on the dollar for him, they do have a little leverage because basically every team is interested. But hard to beat an offer of likely a high draft pick and two quality players on bargain contracts that will undoubtly fetch two more mid to late firsts.

Also, if I were Indiana, I'd wait until I had the final Boston offer and go back to the Lakers. They could dump a lot of young assets if they got desperate. They probably won't, since they wouldn't even have a team as good as Indiana's, but if I were the Pacers that's the other option I'd shoot for.

Same, I'd rather miss on George and keep Lonzo and Ingram if I were them.

Brandon Ingram's shooting percentages are trash compared to what he did at duke and he still weighs 2 lbs while playing the 3-4 spot. Good luck to him with that. I garuntee next year, the Lakers FO is going to sweat out his progress. If he stays below 30% 3pt and still shoots free throws in the low 60's, they're going to lose all trade value for him. He needs to show some upward growth for them to remain positive about him. Julius Randle isn't highly valued. The Lakers really dont have a lot to offer the Pacers that can trump what the C's have. No one can. If the Pacers think the Lakers have anything of value to give, they'll try and coax it out of them soon enough.

[williambh3]

Read on Twitter

Every bit of news hints towards the Pacers waiting for FA. I'm starting to think we already have something done. Would explain why our talks "stalled" on draft night...there was nothing more to talk about.

If the Lakers pick is on the table, I think George is ours. You know the Pacers want to cheer for the Lakers to lose this year...

Pretty sure this one works...
Renounce everyone except Olynyk OR Jerebko
Trade Yabusele, Smart, D. Jackson, LAL/SAC pick for George

Based on the remaining roster and factoring in cap holds for Olynyk, Tatum, and two min roster spots, I have $73.2m of salary, leaving $25.8m of space under the $99m cap to give George a raise and extension. Using Jerebko and his $9.5m hold instead of Olynyk would eat into George's raise by $1.8m.

Sign and trade Olynyk or Jerebko (4 yrs starting at $15m and declining for Olynyk, one year deal for Jerebko), Bradley, and MEM 2019 for Hayward

1. Thomas/Rozier
2-4. Hayward, George, Crowder, Brown, Tatum
5. Horford/Zizic

[tombattor]

We can renegotiate next year's salary for as much as we want. The 20% raise is for the first year of his new extended contract.

Apologies if you guys are talking about something else altogether and got your hopes up for something

Ah, so raise up to max, then 20% raise the following year, right?

Thanks for the info.

We don't even Have to raise to max..if we raise him to 25m this year and 30m next year he still makes more money then if he played out his contract and signed a 2 + 1

Yeah i know. Just trying to see what the limit was.

[Green_teamer]

Read on Twitter

Every bit of news hints towards the Pacers waiting for FA. I'm starting to think we already have something done. Would explain why our talks "stalled" on draft night...there was nothing more to talk about.

If the Lakers pick is on the table, I think George is ours. You know the Pacers want to cheer for the Lakers to lose this year...

Pretty sure this one works...
Renounce everyone except Olynyk OR Jerebko
Trade Yabusele, Smart, D. Jackson, LAL/SAC pick for George

Based on the remaining roster and factoring in cap holds for Olynyk, Tatum, and two min roster spots, I have $73.2m of salary, leaving $25.8m of space under the $99m cap to give George a raise and extension. Using Jerebko and his $9.5m hold instead of Olynyk would eat into George's raise by $1.8m.

Sign and trade Olynyk or Jerebko (4 yrs starting at $15m and declining for Olynyk, one year deal for Jerebko), Bradley, and MEM 2019 for Hayward

1. Thomas/Rozier
2-4. Hayward, George, Crowder, Brown, Tatum
5. Horford/Zizic

If we can keep smart I feel we should. We need at least one good perimeter defender and Smart can guard 2-4 and will be cheap

[Afam]

Keep Guerschon Yabusele and Smart, and instead trade both Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Jerebko.

[tombattor]

Also, if I were Indiana, I'd wait until I had the final Boston offer and go back to the Lakers. They could dump a lot of young assets if they got desperate. They probably won't, since they wouldn't even have a team as good as Indiana's, but if I were the Pacers that's the other option I'd shoot for.

Same, I'd rather miss on George and keep Lonzo and Ingram if I were them.

Brandon Ingram's shooting percentages are trash compared to what he did at duke and he still weighs 2 lbs while playing the 3-4 spot. Good luck to him with that. I garuntee next year, the Lakers FO is going to sweat out his progress. If he stays below 30% 3pt and still shoots free throws in the low 60's, they're going to lose all trade value for him. He needs to show some upward growth for them to remain positive about him. Julius Randle isn't highly valued. The Lakers really dont have a lot to offer the Pacers that can trump what the C's have. No one can. If the Pacers think the Lakers have anything of value to give, they'll try and coax it out of them soon enough.

Ingram is 19. He's not going to lose his trade value that quickly. He's almost an year younger than Brown.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

Every bit of news hints towards the Pacers waiting for FA. I'm starting to think we already have something done. Would explain why our talks "stalled" on draft night...there was nothing more to talk about.

If the Lakers pick is on the table, I think George is ours. You know the Pacers want to cheer for the Lakers to lose this year...

Pretty sure this one works...
Renounce everyone except Olynyk OR Jerebko
Trade Yabusele, Smart, D. Jackson, LAL/SAC pick for George

Based on the remaining roster and factoring in cap holds for Olynyk, Tatum, and two min roster spots, I have $73.2m of salary, leaving $25.8m of space under the $99m cap to give George a raise and extension. Using Jerebko and his $9.5m hold instead of Olynyk would eat into George's raise by $1.8m.

Sign and trade Olynyk or Jerebko (4 yrs starting at $15m and declining for Olynyk, one year deal for Jerebko), Bradley, and MEM 2019 for Hayward

1. Thomas/Rozier
2-4. Hayward, George, Crowder, Brown, Tatum
5. Horford/Zizic

Hmmm that's right, no need for salary matching for George if we absorb his salary into cap space. R&E PG plus S&T GH seems like the way to go, if we get Utah (or a third team) to agree. Cs get to keep most of its depth.

Just a personal preference: I would rather keep Smart + LAL pick and just trade them Tatum instead. Don't quote me lol.

[youOK]

Keep Guerschon Yabusele and Smart, and instead trade both Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Jerebko.

Their both free agents. You would probably have to extend them above their value and then attach something else as a sweetener to make it even feasible.


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[Homerclease]

Keep Guerschon Yabusele and Smart, and instead trade both Kelly Olynyk, Jonas Jerebko.

KO and Jerebko are free agents Afam. You know this

[Celtics_Champs]

Yes I agree that it's too quiet. Mannix said he expected George to be traded shortly after the draft. This makes me think Afam CoughMan is onto something.

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

Every bit of news hints towards the Pacers waiting for FA. I'm starting to think we already have something done. Would explain why our talks "stalled" on draft night...there was nothing more to talk about.

If the Lakers pick is on the table, I think George is ours. You know the Pacers want to cheer for the Lakers to lose this year...

Pretty sure this one works...
Renounce everyone except Olynyk OR Jerebko
Trade Yabusele, Smart, D. Jackson, LAL/SAC pick for George

Based on the remaining roster and factoring in cap holds for Olynyk, Tatum, and two min roster spots, I have $73.2m of salary, leaving $25.8m of space under the $99m cap to give George a raise and extension. Using Jerebko and his $9.5m hold instead of Olynyk would eat into George's raise by $1.8m.

Sign and trade Olynyk or Jerebko (4 yrs starting at $15m and declining for Olynyk, one year deal for Jerebko), Bradley, and MEM 2019 for Hayward

1. Thomas/Rozier
2-4. Hayward, George, Crowder, Brown, Tatum
5. Horford/Zizic

Hang on... I just remembered... We can't use up all of the cap space for the George R&E, sign KO to $15M (Cs go over the cap), then use his full salary for matching. Only 50% of his salary can be used in the trade because of the Base Year Compensation thing -- http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

Same, I'd rather miss on George and keep Lonzo and Ingram if I were them.

Brandon Ingram's shooting percentages are trash compared to what he did at duke and he still weighs 2 lbs while playing the 3-4 spot. Good luck to him with that. I garuntee next year, the Lakers FO is going to sweat out his progress. If he stays below 30% 3pt and still shoots free throws in the low 60's, they're going to lose all trade value for him. He needs to show some upward growth for them to remain positive about him. Julius Randle isn't highly valued. The Lakers really dont have a lot to offer the Pacers that can trump what the C's have. No one can. If the Pacers think the Lakers have anything of value to give, they'll try and coax it out of them soon enough.

Ingram is 19. He's not going to lose his trade value that quickly. He's almost an year younger than Brown.

If he lays an egg his softmore season. He's absolutely going to lose his value by the end of next year. Meaning if they wanted to bring his name up to possibly trade in next years 2018 draft, He may not even fetch a lottery pick as a strait even swap. That, right there, is a dip in trade value 100%. Coach K has had a loooooooooooooong history of winning in the NCAA and making his players look like a million bucks in college and then when they get to the pros, they just aren't as good as people thought they would become. Duke has a long history of that. Brandon Ingram may become another Christain Laettner, Austin Rivers, Jahlil Okafor. Not sure yet, but he's not going to become a world beater in the NBA. Kyrie he is not.

He's young, he's got a long road ahead of him and he can become a good pro still. But it'll take time and a lot of sweat equity. I'm not sure about his work ethic and if he puts the time in or he thinks he's good enough to just rise to the top on the NBA like he did in College. Maybe he's the hardest worker on the Lakers.