It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[winsomme2]

I'll keep pointing out the obvious until it sinks in. 60-70% of the games Marcus has played in the last 4.5 years, we are missing one or more All-Star caliber 20-25ppg scorers. He has been asked to step up above and beyond what he should have been, and we have won a ridiculously larger share of those games than we had any business doing, especially in the playoffs. The other 30-40% of the time, he stays in his lane. Overall, he is one of the very best players at his price (non-rookie scale), and been a primary reason in winning dozens of games a year for several seasons now. In the two years we had Kyrie, Smart was more valuable. In the three years we had Hayward, Smart was more valuable. In the year and a half we've had Kemba, Smart has been more valuable.

100% of the problem with this team for years now is that we do don't have elite talent. It's the lack of quality (and availability) among our stars, not our role players or coach. Period. Underline it. Read it again and again and again if needed, until it sinks in.

Great post +1 Smart makes winning plays, many of which do not show up in the box score.

Thanks. As with Stevens, Smart is neither the solution nor the problem. We could watch a Tatum/Jaylen/Kemba team from now until the end of time, and it just isn't good enough. At least when we had Hayward, there was a possibility that we could somehow overcome our lack of top-tier talent with a preponderance of 2nd and 3rd tier talent. That's over now. This team is average in a 30-team league where 5-6 teams don't even try, and it has little to do with the coach or role players.

I don't agree with this. Obviously, if we switched out Kemba for a better player, we'd be better. But I also think you could switch him out for a similarly talented player and we'd be better the same amount.

For instance, If we switched Kemba for Lonzo, I think we'd be way beter and Lonzo is not a huge talent upgrade over Kemba (health aside). One huge problem right now is that the ball is in the Js hands too much and they are not great ballhandlers or facilitators. If we had a real floor general type, we'd be waaaay more efficient in the half court and in transition. Jaylen and Tatum are extremely careless with the basketball....so is Smart.

Our other glaring hole is in the middle. TT being back will help but we need another strong defensive big. And one that can space the floor on offense would be amazing.

[gocelts]

My thing with Smart is....he's better when he does less. He suddenly has permission to launch 3s and this is a coaching/scheme issue. I agree that when he's 2-10 and if those 2 are game closers, that's all that matters, but he still makes just as many losing plays as he does winning plays.

I believe the root of the matter...is this all still goes back to KEMBA. Kemba's, not the first option, hes not the second, he's barely the 3rd. Because of this Marcus is forced to do more...and here we are.

[BK_2020]

My thing with Smart is....he's better when he does less. He suddenly has permission to launch 3s and this is a coaching/scheme issue. I agree that when he's 2-10 and if those 2 are game closers, that's all that matters, but he still makes just as many losing plays as he does winning plays.

I believe the root of the matter...is this all still goes back to KEMBA. Kemba's, not the first option, hes not the second, he's barely the 3rd. Because of this Marcus is forced to do more...and here we are.

Marcus Smart is taking one fewer threes per game and one fewer shots overall per game than last year while playing basically the same minutes. Fans look at this and cry about Smart suddenly having the green light to shoot and having to do more. I think this is a fan issue, not a coaching or Marcus Smart-issue.

[keevsnick1]

My thing with Smart is....he's better when he does less. He suddenly has permission to launch 3s and this is a coaching/scheme issue. I agree that when he's 2-10 and if those 2 are game closers, that's all that matters, but he still makes just as many losing plays as he does winning plays.

I believe the root of the matter...is this all still goes back to KEMBA. Kemba's, not the first option, hes not the second, he's barely the 3rd. Because of this Marcus is forced to do more...and here we are.

Marcus Smart is taking one fewer threes per game and one fewer shots overall per game than last year while playing basically the same minutes. Fans look at this and cry about Smart suddenly having the green light to shoot and having to do more. I think this is a fan issue, not a coaching or Marcus Smart-issue.

Shooting a little less than WAY too much is still
.. too much. it's not a fan issue. We are a better team when Marcus shoots less and focuses on the things that he's good at.

[jmr07019]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

[bucknersrevenge]

My thing with Smart is....he's better when he does less. He suddenly has permission to launch 3s and this is a coaching/scheme issue. I agree that when he's 2-10 and if those 2 are game closers, that's all that matters, but he still makes just as many losing plays as he does winning plays.

I believe the root of the matter...is this all still goes back to KEMBA. Kemba's, not the first option, hes not the second, he's barely the 3rd. Because of this Marcus is forced to do more...and here we are.

Marcus Smart is taking one fewer threes per game and one fewer shots overall per game than last year while playing basically the same minutes. Fans look at this and cry about Smart suddenly having the green light to shoot and having to do more. I think this is a fan issue, not a coaching or Marcus Smart-issue.

Shooting a little less than WAY too much is still
.. too much. it's not a fan issue. We are a better team when Marcus shoots less and focuses on the things that he's good at.

That Kemba takes 15 shots a game and shoots it at 40% from the floor is an even bigger problem than Marcus. That Kemba is supposed to be our 3rd best player and he's been mediocre at best is a bigger part of the problem of why we're where we are. Now that problem may fix itself when Fournier comes back hopefully. That said, Marcus is 4th and he doesn't shoot it well either. Cave was right when he says Marcus is neither the problem, nor the solution. But for that reason, with his impending contract situation coming up, I'm all for moving on from him after this season is over.

[Feed Your Head]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

I’d want to find a way to dump Kemba too.

Smart/Fournier/Romeo/Tatum/Towns.

I’d be very down with that.

[JediMasterRevan]

My thing with Smart is....he's better when he does less. He suddenly has permission to launch 3s and this is a coaching/scheme issue. I agree that when he's 2-10 and if those 2 are game closers, that's all that matters, but he still makes just as many losing plays as he does winning plays.

I believe the root of the matter...is this all still goes back to KEMBA. Kemba's, not the first option, hes not the second, he's barely the 3rd. Because of this Marcus is forced to do more...and here we are.

Marcus Smart is taking one fewer threes per game and one fewer shots overall per game than last year while playing basically the same minutes. Fans look at this and cry about Smart suddenly having the green light to shoot and having to do more. I think this is a fan issue, not a coaching or Marcus Smart-issue.

Shooting a little less than WAY too much is still
.. too much. it's not a fan issue. We are a better team when Marcus shoots less and focuses on the things that he's good at.

That makes no sense.

Out of 100 nba players that play at least 30 minutes a game (Smart is at 32) smart takes the 85th most shots. Only 15 guys shoot the ball more than him at that amount of time on the court.

If he doesnt shoot at least some then defenses dont need to guard him. You claim that he needs to stick to what he is good at, but having a player on offense that the other team does not need to defend is a hinderance.


3 pointers are the most efficient shot in basketball, Marcus hitting them at 34% means for every 100 3 point shots he takes he creates 102 points. He would need to hit his 2pt fgs at a rate of 51% to match that.

I want marcus taking 3s and post up/layups. That is it.

This isnt even going into the notion that Marcus has had to be the 2nd and 3rd option more often in the past year+ because Kemba is injured, or Hayward is injured, or someone is sick, or someone is hurt, etc.


This false narrative that marcus shoots us out of games needs to stop. It is false and quite frankly short sighted.

[JediMasterRevan]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

I’d want to find a way to dump Kemba too.

Smart/Fournier/Romeo/Tatum/Towns.

I’d be very down with that.

Maybe.

Would rather try Smart/Fournier/Brown/Tatum/Rob or a different center then add a proper bench around them

[Johnny Tomala]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

That would be great. I hope we will trade Brown plus fillers, picks for Towns.

[Curmudgeon]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

That would be great. I hope we will trade Brown plus fillers, picks for Towns.

If we made that trade, we'd become another 15-20 win team like the Timberwolves.

As for the Kemba issue, we already have the ability to replace Kemba with a better all-around player: Marcus Smart. But it's a salary cap league, and we need to get a better return on Kemba's 35M--not necessary a star, but a couple of gritty big men who rebound and defend. The Timelord by himself isn't enough.

As for Smart's 3 point shooting, no one complained when he drained the critical trey--and made several other critical plays-- to avoid a loss to the Knicks.

[MagicBagley18]

Biggest worry I’d have with KAT and Tatum is the temperament and of lack of fire. Would they be passionate enough to make each other better? Idk.

I could see Tatum listening to beal who he looks up to as a brother more than a kat.

[Celts17Pride]

What will be interesting to me is if the Celtics sign anyone to longer than a two year deal this off-season. I personally believe that Ainge is going to be setting up to add a max free agent in 2023-2024. That means some very tough decisions on Smart and Fournier. Ainge keeps adding players on rookie year contracts which sets up nicely to make a major splash in 2023-2024. R Williams is the only player on a rookie year deal that will be up for an extension before 2023-2024. Shouldn't impact the Celtics going after a max free agent.

Again the summer is going to tell you a lot about the vision of Danny Ainge and the Celtics starting with what the Celtics do with Smart and Fournier. Wouldn't be shocked if Ainge moved Smart for a draft pick and another rookie scale contract.

Could even be 2022-2023 if Kemba declines his option (I doubt it)

We will see.

[bucknersrevenge]

Brown and Rob Williams for Towns. Who says no?

Right now, Minnesota, Even if Towns were to declare he wanted out, they just extended him. And they haven't even had a chance to see what a core of DAW/Edwards/Beasley/Juancho/Towns can do yet for any stretch of time. They have zero incentive to move him right now.

[31to6]

Biggest worry I’d have with KAT and Tatum is the temperament and of lack of fire. Would they be passionate enough to make each other better? Idk.

I could see Tatum listening to beal who he looks up to as a brother more than a kat.

in that scenario, what is Beal going to say to him, though? "Let's go do what we do in our shared-trainer mix-tapes"?

Tatum needs to want it himself. Needs to have that FIRE himself -- even if he's 'the ICE guy'.

This year, while painful, is a step towards him realizing that.

[Fierce1]

What will be interesting to me is if the Celtics sign anyone to longer than a two year deal this off-season. I personally believe that Ainge is going to be setting up to add a max free agent in 2023-2024. That means some very tough decisions on Smart and Fournier. Ainge keeps adding players on rookie year contracts which sets up nicely to make a major splash in 2023-2024. R Williams is the only player on a rookie year deal that will be up for an extension before 2023-2024. Shouldn't impact the Celtics going after a max free agent.

Again the summer is going to tell you a lot about the vision of Danny Ainge and the Celtics starting with what the Celtics do with Smart and Fournier. Wouldn't be shocked if Ainge moved Smart for a draft pick and another rookie scale contract.

Could even be 2022-2023 if Kemba declines his option (I doubt it)

We will see.

I think Ainge will only move Marcus Smart if it's a an offer he can't refuse, like a team offering a lottery pick for Smart.

[djFan71]

Could Siakam and Timelord play together? I know we have double-big PTSD, but I think it was mainly the wrong bigs, not necessarily the concept. Siakam's 3 pt % cratered this year, but hope he bounces back.

Assuming Lowry's gone, that team doesn't need to be paying a max to anyone. He's probably not worth it, but he's close. Something around Kemba to the Knicks, TT, Nesmith, Knox, 1st to TOR???

Smart, Jaylen, Tatum, Siakam, Rob
PP, Romeo, Fournier, Grant

Fill out with another PG and a banger big.

[Celts17Pride]

What will be interesting to me is if the Celtics sign anyone to longer than a two year deal this off-season. I personally believe that Ainge is going to be setting up to add a max free agent in 2023-2024. That means some very tough decisions on Smart and Fournier. Ainge keeps adding players on rookie year contracts which sets up nicely to make a major splash in 2023-2024. R Williams is the only player on a rookie year deal that will be up for an extension before 2023-2024. Shouldn't impact the Celtics going after a max free agent.

Again the summer is going to tell you a lot about the vision of Danny Ainge and the Celtics starting with what the Celtics do with Smart and Fournier. Wouldn't be shocked if Ainge moved Smart for a draft pick and another rookie scale contract.

Could even be 2022-2023 if Kemba declines his option (I doubt it)

We will see.

I think Ainge will only move Marcus Smart if it's a an offer he can't refuse, like a team offering a lottery pick for Smart.

Depends if he wants to sign a max free agent or not. If that's his goal then Smart and Fournier have to go to the highest bidder. We will find out in the summer what the plan is for the Celtics.

Smart was very available this trade deadline despite what Ainge says publicly.

[Fierce1]

Could Siakam and Timelord play together? I know we have double-big PTSD, but I think it was mainly the wrong bigs, not necessarily the concept. Siakam's 3 pt % cratered this year, but hope he bounces back.

Assuming Lowry's gone, that team doesn't need to be paying a max to anyone. He's probably not worth it, but he's close. Something around Kemba to the Knicks, TT, Nesmith, Knox, 1st to TOR???

Smart, Jaylen, Tatum, Siakam, Rob
PP, Romeo, Fournier, Grant

Fill out with another PG and a banger big.

I think that only happens if Toronto wants out of Siakam's contract.

[BK_2020]

Could Siakam and Timelord play together? I know we have double-big PTSD, but I think it was mainly the wrong bigs, not necessarily the concept. Siakam's 3 pt % cratered this year, but hope he bounces back.

Assuming Lowry's gone, that team doesn't need to be paying a max to anyone. He's probably not worth it, but he's close. Something around Kemba to the Knicks, TT, Nesmith, Knox, 1st to TOR???

Smart, Jaylen, Tatum, Siakam, Rob
PP, Romeo, Fournier, Grant

Fill out with another PG and a banger big.

They are not giving us Siakam for Nesmith and 1st lol.