The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[Captain_Caveman]

We're just squeaking into max cap space as it is.. To trade for Favors and sign Hayward, we'd have to trade 2-3 of IT/Bradley/Crowder for expiring contracts..

We probably don't have max cap space under what is rumored with the new CBA.

Depends on the Nets pick, really.

[jmr07019]

I wanted Whiteside this offseason and still want him now. If Miami keeps losing and wants to tank I wonder if we could get Whiteside for KO / 2017 Brooklyn and salary filler. Whiteside fixes our rebounding problem and adds a new dimension to the offense. He would make the team much better and while we give up a significant asset we are not emptying out the war chest.

[Disinformation]

I wanted Whiteside this offseason and still want him now. If Miami keeps losing and wants to tank I wonder if we could get Whiteside for KO / 2017 Brooklyn and salary filler. Whiteside fixes our rebounding problem and adds a new dimension to the offense. He would make the team much better and while we give up a significant asset we are not emptying out the war chest.

I don't know, man. Whiteside strikes me as the kind of player whose ability to help his team win doesn't match his gaudy stats. And making $24 million per year?

[jmr07019]

I wanted Whiteside this offseason and still want him now. If Miami keeps losing and wants to tank I wonder if we could get Whiteside for KO / 2017 Brooklyn and salary filler. Whiteside fixes our rebounding problem and adds a new dimension to the offense. He would make the team much better and while we give up a significant asset we are not emptying out the war chest.

I don't know, man. Whiteside strikes me as the kind of player whose ability to help his team win doesn't match his gaudy stats. And making $24 million per year?

I think he'd be a great fit here. He is exactly what we are missing. We are a terrible rebounding team he is one of the best rebounders in the league. He has scored very efficiently the last 2 years playing around the basket and that is the compliment we need to the IT, AB, Crowder Horford lineup.

[skywalker33]

Just for fun. No more problems with rebounding.

Denver get :
Ben McLemore
Kelly Olynyk
Willie Cauley Stein
2019 1st round pick from BOS (via Grizzlies)
2017 2nd round pick from BOS (via Wolves)

Sacramento get :
Jae Crowder
Amir Johnson
Nikola Jokic
James Young
1st round pick 2019 from BOS (via Nets)

Boston get :
DeMarcus Cousins
Kenneth Faried

IT/ Rozier / Jackson
Avery / Smart / Nader
Brown / Jerebko / Green
Horford / Faried / Mickey
Cousins / Zeller

BOS really comes out well, ...DEN would easily decline, not giving away one of our best young players to help the C's get DMC. A mid-first, a malcontent C, a journeyman C/PF and useless SG isn't getting Jokic.

[Andrew McCeltic]

We're just squeaking into max cap space as it is.. To trade for Favors and sign Hayward, we'd have to trade 2-3 of IT/Bradley/Crowder for expiring contracts..

We probably don't have max cap space under what is rumored with the new CBA.

Depends on the Nets pick, really.

We could dump Crowder in a second if Hayward wanted to come here.

But Ainge needs to remember what happened to Houston, getting fancy with Parsons, Lin and Asik to chase Chris Bosh.

My guess is he's playing it by ear, I just wonder what would make him fill up the space. Bad feeling we're going to overpay for Faried or Faried/Gallo. Which I could rationalize..

[aim2please]

This is all subject to the medical clearance. But, I'm calling it now. Chris Bosh on the minimum after Miami waives him.

[ConstableGeneva]

This is all subject to the medical clearance. But, I'm calling it now. Chris Bosh on the minimum after Miami waives him.

My guess he ends up in Houston.

[aim2please]

This is all subject to the medical clearance. But, I'm calling it now. Chris Bosh on the minimum after Miami waives him.

My guess he ends up in Houston.

Well, my guess is more fun

Cleveland and GSW are nightmare scenarios for the rest of the league.

[ConstableGeneva]

This is all subject to the medical clearance. But, I'm calling it now. Chris Bosh on the minimum after Miami waives him.

My guess he ends up in Houston.

Well, my guess is more fun

Cleveland and GSW are nightmare scenarios for the rest of the league.

Yep, if he's cleared to play, he'd be a nice fit alongside Horford. He shares an agent with AB (and Gerald Wallace) so who knows.

[Bad-Thoma]

I don't usually read this thread so sorry if someone has already had this idea:

If Washington continues to stink and shows signs of waving the white flag before the trade deadline I would approach them with an Amir and the Celtic's '18 1st for Gortat trade.

Why for Boston: I love Amir but Gortat is a front court upgrade and would finally offer us some rim protection, his contract is commensurate with his production or better and under control for 2 more seasons.

Why for Washington: Amir expires this season giving them some flexibility to rebuild on the fly in free agency, a 1st likely in the 20's is still a 1st. Amir is a better tank crew member than Gortat for obvious reasons.

I'm not saying that would get them to move on it, but it might be a starting point for negotiation.

[Homerclease]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

Not sure how accurate this is and we still have to factor in cap holds for Yabs, Zizic and the Brooklyn 2017. But this shows us at 71 million next year without renouncing Zeller. We need to know the exact 2017 cap figure but as of now it seems very possible to add a max contract next offseason if they don't add any salary in the meantime. Obviously need Smitty to give this a once over though

[Kolkmania]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

Not sure how accurate this is and we still have to factor in cap holds for Yabs, Zizic and the Brooklyn 2017. But this shows us at 71 million next year without renouncing Zeller. We need to know the exact 2017 cap figure but as of now it seems very possible to add a max contract next offseason if they don't add any salary in the meantime. Obviously need Smitty to give this a once over though

Projected rookie scales for #16 and #23 in 2017 draft are $1,628,600 and $1,192,200, probably around $4,000,000 for ~4th pick Brooklyn brings the total amount to $78,565,822 with some of Jackson's contract partly guaranteed. If I recall correctly the salary cap for 2017/2018 is projected at $102 million dollars and $122 million for the luxury-tax-line.

There are probably people out here with more knowledge regarding the financial situation, but adding a contract like Gortat (mentioned above) of $12 million dollar a year is crucial for free agency this summer. Lots of variables though, if you're aiming for a max free agent it depends on what tier (number of years he's in the league) he's in, Ainge could make trades to make room for more space, Yabusele/Zizic might get stashed another year (in the case of Yabusele not inconceivable), etc.

Players with 6 or less seasons in the NBA can earn 25% of the salary cap, 7-9 years 25% and 10+ years up to 30%. Still some exceptions for resigning, designated players for instance. 30% of the projected salary cap is $30.6 million (Griffin and Hayward tier). So if I'm right Danny Ainge's playing room is very small if he's interested in signing a tier 2 free agent for the absolute maximum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Homerclease]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

Not sure how accurate this is and we still have to factor in cap holds for Yabs, Zizic and the Brooklyn 2017. But this shows us at 71 million next year without renouncing Zeller. We need to know the exact 2017 cap figure but as of now it seems very possible to add a max contract next offseason if they don't add any salary in the meantime. Obviously need Smitty to give this a once over though

Projected rookie scales for #16 and #23 in 2017 draft are $1,628,600 and $1,192,200, probably around $4,000,000 for ~4th pick Brooklyn brings the total amount to $78,565,822 with some of Jackson's contract partly guaranteed. If I recall correctly the salary cap for 2017/2018 is projected at $102 million dollars and $122 million for the luxury-tax-line.

There are probably people out here with more knowledge regarding the financial situation, but adding a contract like Gortat (mentioned above) of $12 million dollar a year is crucial for free agency this summer. Lots of variables though, if you're aiming for a max free agent it depends on what tier (number of years he's in the league) he's in, Ainge could make trades to make room for more space, Yabusele/Zizic might get stashed another year (in the case of Yabusele not inconceivable), etc.

Players with 6 or less seasons in the NBA can earn 25% of the salary cap, 7-9 years 25% and 10+ years up to 30%. Still some exceptions for resigning, designated players for instance. 30% of the projected salary cap is $30.6 million (Griffin and Hayward tier). So if I'm right Danny Ainge's playing room is very small if he's interested in signing a tier 2 free agent for the absolute maximum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That all looks correct although I'm no cap expert. If they stash Yabs another year and cut Mickey outright it would appear they can get under the threshold. That salary cap projection can really sink or swim us here, if it comes in at the original 107 million projection it gives DA a lot more breathing room. Could they not also backload a contract seeing as the cap is expected to jump one more time in 2018?

[Disinformation]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html

Not sure how accurate this is and we still have to factor in cap holds for Yabs, Zizic and the Brooklyn 2017. But this shows us at 71 million next year without renouncing Zeller. We need to know the exact 2017 cap figure but as of now it seems very possible to add a max contract next offseason if they don't add any salary in the meantime. Obviously need Smitty to give this a once over though

Projected rookie scales for #16 and #23 in 2017 draft are $1,628,600 and $1,192,200, probably around $4,000,000 for ~4th pick Brooklyn brings the total amount to $78,565,822 with some of Jackson's contract partly guaranteed. If I recall correctly the salary cap for 2017/2018 is projected at $102 million dollars and $122 million for the luxury-tax-line.

There are probably people out here with more knowledge regarding the financial situation, but adding a contract like Gortat (mentioned above) of $12 million dollar a year is crucial for free agency this summer. Lots of variables though, if you're aiming for a max free agent it depends on what tier (number of years he's in the league) he's in, Ainge could make trades to make room for more space, Yabusele/Zizic might get stashed another year (in the case of Yabusele not inconceivable), etc.

Players with 6 or less seasons in the NBA can earn 25% of the salary cap, 7-9 years 25% and 10+ years up to 30%. Still some exceptions for resigning, designated players for instance. 30% of the projected salary cap is $30.6 million (Griffin and Hayward tier). So if I'm right Danny Ainge's playing room is very small if he's interested in signing a tier 2 free agent for the absolute maximum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That all looks correct although I'm no cap expert. If they stash Yabs another year and cut Mickey outright it would appear they can get under the threshold. That salary cap projection can really sink or swim us here, if it comes in at the original 107 million projection it gives DA a lot more breathing room. Could they not also backload a contract seeing as the cap is expected to jump one more time in 2018?

I thought the new CBA was increasing the rookie wage scale. Do those numbers take that into account?

[Kolkmania]

Projected rookie scales for #16 and #23 in 2017 draft are $1,628,600 and $1,192,200, probably around $4,000,000 for ~4th pick Brooklyn brings the total amount to $78,565,822 with some of Jackson's contract partly guaranteed. If I recall correctly the salary cap for 2017/2018 is projected at $102 million dollars and $122 million for the luxury-tax-line.

There are probably people out here with more knowledge regarding the financial situation, but adding a contract like Gortat (mentioned above) of $12 million dollar a year is crucial for free agency this summer. Lots of variables though, if you're aiming for a max free agent it depends on what tier (number of years he's in the league) he's in, Ainge could make trades to make room for more space, Yabusele/Zizic might get stashed another year (in the case of Yabusele not inconceivable), etc.

Players with 6 or less seasons in the NBA can earn 25% of the salary cap, 7-9 years 25% and 10+ years up to 30%. Still some exceptions for resigning, designated players for instance. 30% of the projected salary cap is $30.6 million (Griffin and Hayward tier). So if I'm right Danny Ainge's playing room is very small if he's interested in signing a tier 2 free agent for the absolute maximum.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

That all looks correct although I'm no cap expert. If they stash Yabs another year and cut Mickey outright it would appear they can get under the threshold. That salary cap projection can really sink or swim us here, if it comes in at the original 107 million projection it gives DA a lot more breathing room. Could they not also backload a contract seeing as the cap is expected to jump one more time in 2018?

I thought the new CBA was increasing the rookie wage scale. Do those numbers take that into account?

No it does not. Alos It's usual that rookies sign for 120% of the rookie scale, so that would even further increase the cap hold. However the biggest variable is the Brooklyn pick, so prior to the lottery we don't know how much it will affect the cap space.

[Captain_Caveman]

That all looks correct although I'm no cap expert. If they stash Yabs another year and cut Mickey outright it would appear they can get under the threshold. That salary cap projection can really sink or swim us here, if it comes in at the original 107 million projection it gives DA a lot more breathing room. Could they not also backload a contract seeing as the cap is expected to jump one more time in 2018?

I thought the new CBA was increasing the rookie wage scale. Do those numbers take that into account?

No it does not. Alos It's usual that rookies sign for 120% of the rookie scale, so that would even further increase the cap hold. However the biggest variable is the Brooklyn pick, so prior to the lottery we don't know how much it will affect the cap space.

If the Nets pick is high, our cap room takes a hit with the new CBA. That's the big one.

Depending on the new CBA, the 2017 rookies could be left unsigned to free up a few more pennies, but last year's draft and stashes would also go up a bit over 2016 numbers.

All told, we could be ~$5m below a max. Despite what Andrew is saying above, I don't think dumping Crowder is the answer there.

[Slartibartfast]

I just don't see a mid season trade happening.

1. Ainge didn't part with his pick last year, he won't do it this year.

2. No one is going to want Zeller or Jerebko or Young or whoever we all wish we could part with
In a trade.

3. As far as another teams "salary dump" move, Danny won't part with his cap flexibility.

4. Any trade involving say Smart/Rozier or Amir and Olynyk will just leave us thin at their respective positions.

i know it's never say never with Danny, but unless it's for Cousins or Davis, I don't see a move happening.

1. I think Jaylen is the one likely to be featured as a trade asset moreso than the BK17 pick.

2. They will be ballast, not value added.

3. There are expiring guys like Bogut who could help.

4. Not if we are getting players at the same position back in trade.

[Homerclease]

I thought the new CBA was increasing the rookie wage scale. Do those numbers take that into account?

No it does not. Alos It's usual that rookies sign for 120% of the rookie scale, so that would even further increase the cap hold. However the biggest variable is the Brooklyn pick, so prior to the lottery we don't know how much it will affect the cap space.

If the Nets pick is high, our cap room takes a hit with the new CBA. That's the big one.

Depending on the new CBA, the 2017 rookies could be left unsigned to free up a few more pennies, but last year's draft and stashes would also go up a bit over 2016 numbers.

All told, we could be ~$5m below a max. Despite what Andrew is saying above, I don't think dumping Crowder is the answer there.

Do we have hard data on what the cap holds will be for the top 5 picks next season? Sadly this doesn't amount to much more than precision guesswork on both sides of the debate without the hard data yet. We'd need to know what the cap holds for rookies will actually be and what the 2017 cap will be set at. Cave very well may be right that we'd have to move someone to bring in a max guy. If they were to move Smart as an example it would open up worlds of possibilities in the draft making point guards like Fultz and Ball prime targets

[Captain_Caveman]

No it does not. Alos It's usual that rookies sign for 120% of the rookie scale, so that would even further increase the cap hold. However the biggest variable is the Brooklyn pick, so prior to the lottery we don't know how much it will affect the cap space.

If the Nets pick is high, our cap room takes a hit with the new CBA. That's the big one.

Depending on the new CBA, the 2017 rookies could be left unsigned to free up a few more pennies, but last year's draft and stashes would also go up a bit over 2016 numbers.

All told, we could be ~$5m below a max. Despite what Andrew is saying above, I don't think dumping Crowder is the answer there.

Do we have hard data on what the cap holds will be for the top 5 picks next season? Sadly this doesn't amount to much more than precision guesswork on both sides of the debate without the hard data yet. We'd need to know what the cap holds for rookies will actually be and what the 2017 cap will be set at. Cave very well may be right that we'd have to move someone to bring in a max guy. If they were to move Smart as an example it would open up worlds of possibilities in the draft making point guards like Fultz and Ball prime targets

I think they were talking about 50% increases in rookie salaries, which could add about $3m in total if the Nets pick is high enough. Thought it was near double that, so maybe not a big deal. Still pretty tight in terms of max cap space.

Including Olynyk, Mickey, Yabu, Zizic and Jackson, and assuming a 3rd overall pick, I have ~$82m in salaries and cap holds for next year. That gives us only $20m in cap room next summer under an estimated $107m salary cap. Source: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16859143/nba-salary-cap-projection-2017-18-season-lower-expected

Full max is $33.5m for a KD, while a 25% max is $25.5m for a Hayward, I think? We can reach the lower number just by letting Olynyk and his $7.7m cap hold walk, but the higher number would involve some bloodletting.

At the end of the day, I think the takeaway here is that the team will not give up max or near-max cap space for role players. They've proven that for all of this rebuild, going back to passing on Omer Asik three years ago. Short of adding Cousins or Butler or someone of that nature, they are highly unlikely to add salaries that extend past this season.