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"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1741 » by Homerclease » Sat May 28, 2016 2:54 pm

Fischella wrote:
Homerclease wrote:It's hard to take your stuff seriously when you have Wade Baldwin in the top 5, Murray sliding to 17 and Skal sliding all the way to the 2nd round. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into these things but these whacky out of left field predictions to try to play smartest guy in the room severely hurt your credibility.


First I am not making any predictions, I stated that quite clearly if you bothered reading my post, I know that some guys wont go where I project them to, I am try to get as close as possible, by my rankings (based on tape and stats), to the end result of the draft when all it's said and done, careers-wise.

You can take it as seriously as you wanna, I am not trying to be the smartest guy in any room, or make weird predictions I have been consistent in having guys like Murray (never cracked my top10, only in one Mock I made trying to actually predict some where I put him 6th to NOLA I think, or 7th), Hield (never cracked the lotto in any of my Mocks) or Skal (have had him in the 25-40 range since forever), to name some, lower than the perceived consensus all year long, from the get-go, and I have had Baldwin lotto since January and high on my board since the start of the season, same with Luwawu, Zubac, Hernangómez, Chriss, or Robert Carter Jr.

Consensus about players is dumb per se, and is one of the reason why some guys get overdrafted and others are underrated, even GM and FOs, the laziest ones, get to believe all the crap that is spat out there by influential fans/bloggers and media members and follow that lead, the Draft shouldnt be about predicting or agreeing on guys (other than maybe the top ones or when is crystal clear that a guy is the top prospect). I want to need to discuss about prospects and projections and have to fight even with my own guts and beliefs to get the picture as right as possible, when someone says that a guy is a consensus top5 pick it makes me cringe.

Especially in this class where after the top6-7 guys everything is really open (and nope, neither Murray, nor Hield will make my top6-7) I can wipe my ass with the consensus draft predictions, especially if you are talking about guys like Ford, or whomever is in charge of NBADraft.net that are absolutely clueless in terms of basketball evaluation.

And again, Buddy Hield might very well go anywhere from 6th to 8th overall and Murray might go from 4th to 6th, that's not the game I am playing at all.
If you want to enter into why they dont rate as high for me, that's another argument, but stating that I lose some credibility because my rankings are not equal to other site's ones is just been lazy.

You asked for feedback, I gave it to you.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1742 » by return2glory » Sat May 28, 2016 3:06 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
return2glory wrote:J. Brown disappeared in the tournament. During games, he would have 5 minute stretches where you didn't know he was in the game. Jeff Green anyone.

Brown wasn't even the best freshmen on his team over the last month of the season. That honor belonged to Ivan Rabb.

We can get our SF at 16 with T. Prince.


So did Jabari Parker vs Mercer. Sometimes overweighting the tournament makes sense, but sometimes it's just one poorly timed bad game.


I totally get that. However one thing I didn't like about Brown's game was he disappeared through stretches of other games too often for me, like Jeff Green.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1743 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat May 28, 2016 3:21 pm

I'm on the Bender hype train, already! Was down on him at 1st, but for a 18 year old, he has major potential. Could be the best player in the draft, if he develops as expected.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1744 » by Fidel Sarcasmo » Sat May 28, 2016 3:28 pm

return2glory wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
return2glory wrote:J. Brown disappeared in the tournament. During games, he would have 5 minute stretches where you didn't know he was in the game. Jeff Green anyone.

Brown wasn't even the best freshmen on his team over the last month of the season. That honor belonged to Ivan Rabb.

We can get our SF at 16 with T. Prince.


So did Jabari Parker vs Mercer. Sometimes overweighting the tournament makes sense, but sometimes it's just one poorly timed bad game.


I totally get that. However one thing I didn't like about Brown's game was he disappeared through stretches of other games too often for me, like Jeff Green.


Jeff Green is taboo around these parts. Players with no heart, fire or toughness just don't endear themselves to Celtics fans in generally I tend to observe.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1745 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat May 28, 2016 3:29 pm

Fischella wrote:I updated my Mock/Board (in the end is a combination of both) after we got the Official Early Entry List (minus internationals prospects, I am assuming that Cordinier, Papagiannis, Yusta, Slavica, Atic, Bakumanya, Birsen, Bouteille, Diop, Fall, Flaccadori, Guven, Håkansson, Jaramaz, Kaba, Loubaki, Mesicek, Sipahi, Ugurlu and Vezenkov withdraw from this Draft).

I added a 3rd round, just out of curiosity and because even if this class is difficult to foresee at the top10-15, it is deep and there are some guys I didnt want to leave out.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202092/
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/202102/

Like always not trying to hit with any pick, just adapting my board to the teams picking, sort of, any feedback is very much appreciated, but take into consideration that it is not a prediction.

I got BOS picking, although I know you will sell/trade some picks, Bender, Bembry, Zimmerman, Zizic, Zagorac, Damian Jones, Zipser and Julian Jacobs with your 8 picks, tons of intls prospects, several bigs and Fs and a defensive team-oriented Guard that has some of the traits Stevens like+underrated athleticism in Jacobs.


Who do you have us selecting with 16/23, if we keep the picks?

I like Bender + Zizic or Zubac/(wouldn't midn Baldwin/Khorkmaz/Luwawu or Jae's brother from another mother Prince at #16, they fall there) + Qi at #23. Second round, I like Onuaku + Maker + Bentil or Payton 2, just based on potential. I think Onuaku is really udnerrated, he could easily be a Biyombo/Wallace type of player.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1746 » by bucknersrevenge » Sat May 28, 2016 3:59 pm

BfB wrote:
Froob wrote:
Leprechaun18 wrote:
Poeltl was the go to guy on his team. The Pac 12 isnt a weak conference. He played well against Duke two seasons in a row. He is a very good rebounder. He shut down Okafor in last years sweet sixteen. Don Mclean does a very good job preparing prospects for the NBA. Last season Mclean help KAT transform his body which help him have a dominate rookie season.

Bender has shown nothing. He wants to be a small forward like Kukoc. What if Bender puts on 25 pounds and his max vertical gets even worse? Its very dangerous to pick based only on supposed potential. You pick based on potential later in the draft. If you pick 3 and the player busts the GM could get fired.

Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.


Just for the record, Bender has played in a bunch of age apropriate competition and beasted. College guys play vs college guys and we are fine evaluating them even though almost none do **** their first few years vs adults. Yet, Bender continues to get shelled for his play vs adults while his junior level stuff is ignored....just ignorant...


I don't know BfB. Bender gets PLENTY of love around here. You'd think with some of these posts that we were talking about the illegitimate love-child of Larry Bird and Drazen Petrovic. I mean, if we draft him, I'll certainly root for him because ultimately I root for laundry but I wonder if some here aren't setting themselves up for disappointment.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1747 » by Froob » Sat May 28, 2016 4:03 pm

Fidel Sarcasmo wrote:
return2glory wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
So did Jabari Parker vs Mercer. Sometimes overweighting the tournament makes sense, but sometimes it's just one poorly timed bad game.


I totally get that. However one thing I didn't like about Brown's game was he disappeared through stretches of other games too often for me, like Jeff Green.


Jeff Green is taboo around these parts. Players with no heart, fire or toughness just don't endear themselves to Celtics fans in generally I tend to observe.

Yup, give me a Jae Crowder anyday. Green was averaging 19 ppg on good efficiency and we dump him and don't get any worse. I think he's a good guy and I wish him well but, he has no fire for the game. It's hard to win with guys like that.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1748 » by Ben-N1ce » Sat May 28, 2016 4:07 pm

Some more stolen Chad Ford :D

Buddy Hield, SG, Sr., Oklahoma

Hield spent his entire senior season getting the biggest compliment any draft prospect could receive. College basketball analysts dubbed him the "Steph Curry" of NCAA hoops.

The two-time reigning MVP has big shoes to fill, and Hield doesn't seem shy about trying to fill them. His elite shooting with deep, deep range combined with a confidence that borders just on the right side of cocky make for obvious comparisons.
When these guys get rolling, there's little opposing defenses can do to stop them. And the work ethic of both players is legendary.
In his workout in Anaheim, California, on Tuesday, Hield certainly looked the part as a shooter. He rarely missed shots, regardless of where he was on the floor. When the NBA 3-point line became boring (a line that is typically intimidating for college shooters, regardless of their skill), he was comfortable stepping back another five feet and hitting 20-of-25 from "Curry range" in one drill. And Hield did it with all the confidence that he showed at Oklahoma last season. He believes he can be special; great shooters need that level of confidence.

His confidence and quick release make him arguably the best shooter in this draft. In a league desperate for shooters, that only makes him a more attractive lottery pick. He also knows that the Curry comparison isn't a perfect fit. Curry is an elite ball handler with crazy good court vision. Hield's handle and court vision have been criticized by scouts. And while Curry isn't an all-NBA defender, his effort on that end clearly surpasses Hield's right now.

Of course, when Curry entered the league, virtually every scout worried about similar things: Is he a point guard? Can he defend anyone? Hield hears the criticism and has been spending most of the past six weeks tightening up his handle and working on his explosiveness in an effort to improve his lateral quickness. He has even received some on-court tutoring from Kobe Bryant.
Both efforts are coming along nicely. Hield looked terrific in a number of ball handling drills, and while I didn't get to see him play defense (he was in a one-on-none workout), he seemed confident he was going to address his defensive deficiencies in the NBA.
"My freshman year I was a good defender," Hield said. "My sophomore, junior and senior year I turned into a scorer. I took a step back the last three years.

"But if you want something you go and get it. I know in the NBA there will be a lot of 2-guards coming at me. I know I have to stop them to stay on the court. Defense comes from your heart inside. ... I have a lot of heart.
"I'm not going to let anyone take advantage of me. That's how it's always been for me growing up. So I'm going to do what I have to do when I get there and I don't think defense will be a problem for me."

Kris Dunn, PG, Jr., Providence

Dunn went counter to conventional wisdom last year and decided to return to Providence, despite the fact that most teams had projected him as a late lottery pick.Dunn said his motivation was primarily academic. He wanted to leave Providence with a college degree. Not only did he graduate last week, fulfilling a lifelong dream, his draft stock improved as well.
Dunn's elite size, quickness and power for a point guard are his primary draws. So is a fierce competitiveness, especially on the defensive end, that should make NBA head coaches drool. Few prospects compete as aggressively as Dunn does.
In one-on-one and two-on-two drills I saw on Monday and Wednesday, Dunn lived and died by every possession. He appeared incredulous every time he missed a shot or his team lost. And when his team won or even when he'd just win an individual match-up?

The swagger showed.And Dunn had plenty of opportunities to compete. I saw him go up against two NBA players, Elfrid Payton and Nick Johnson, and two other draft prospects, Tyler Ulis and Ron Baker, in multiple one-on-one, two-on-two and three-on-three sessions.

To appreciate a guard like Dunn, you really need to see him in live action. He does well enough in the drills (and on Wednesday he was knocking a high percentage in shooting drills), but when the lights come on, he's a more focused and aggressive player.
Right now his defense is ahead of his offense. No one in the gym could score on him with any regularity. Blessed with size, strength, length, speed and aggressiveness, he has the potential to be an All-Defensive team member in the NBA someday. If he can avoid foul trouble, someday might not be that far away.

One of my favorite moments of the past few weeks came when Dunn got caught on a switch against Guerschon Yabusele, a 6-foot-8, 270 pound power forward. As Yabusele banged away at Dunn, Dunn banged right back, refusing to cede an inch.
Offensively, his speed, court vision and strength allow him to get to wherever he wants on the floor. While at times I felt like he could be even more aggressive hunting for his own shot at both Providence and in the live scrimmages I saw, the fact that he's a "pure" point guard who plays unselfishly is a big part of his appeal to teams.

"I love to compete every day," Dunn said. "It's good to have those NBA players come in and test our capabilities against those type of guys and see if, you know, we can play at a high level like those guys. It's good for us. I was taught to not back down from nobody. That's the type of player I am."

Marquese Chriss, PF, Fr., Washington

Hield may be the best shooter in the draft and Dunn may be the best defender. Chriss' claim to fame: He is an absolute freaky athlete for a player his size.

During one of his drills, he almost knocked himself out, barely missing hitting his forehead on the rim during a powerful dunk. There aren't a lot of 6-foot-10 forwards with his combination of explosive leaping ability and agility. He moves as well as any big I've seen since Andre Drummond.

But Chriss isn't just an athlete. He also comes with a sweet stroke that should allow him to be a stretch-4 in the league. And his leaping ability and aggressiveness on defense make him a terrific option as a rim protector.
He needs to get stronger, become a better rebounder and stay out of foul trouble, but he brings tools to the floor that make his ceiling as high as that of anyone in this draft not named Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram. The fact that he's one of the youngest players in the draft also helps his cause.

While we have generally pegged him in the No. 7-10 range, teams as high as the Suns at No. 4 are considering him. They need a stretch floor, and the other options (Dragan Bender, Henry Ellenson) don't have the athletic upside that Chriss does.
There is a risk factor with Chriss, though. He's far from a finished prospect and scouts have wrung their hands a bit about whether he's mature enough for the NBA. His body language at Washington could have been better. For Chriss, it's not a question they should worry about.

"I think the teams liked me," Chriss said about his interviews at the draft combine. "They were trying to figure out who I am.
"As a teammate off the court, I'm kind of the opposite of how I play. When I'm on the court I'm kind of mean and mad, but I'm never really mad. I feel like I smile a lot. ... I don't really have a lot friends when I play. My friends are my teammates really. On the court I like to be focused and keep my head straight."

Henry Ellenson, F/C, Fr., Marquette

Ellenson is right there with Chriss as a stretch-4. I saw him in a workout in Bel-Air on Tuesday morning and he was impressive as well. Ellenson measured 6-foot-11.5 in shoes with a 7-foot-2.5 wingspan at the combine. That's the size of most centers in the NBA.
Yet Ellenson seems more comfortable playing away from the basket. He shot just 29 percent from 3-point territory in college, but you wouldn't know it by how well he shot the ball in workouts. While his release is a bit on the slow side, he has great shooting form and showed he could hit shots with regularity from anywhere on the floor.

He also possesses a crafty midrange game and excelled in a series of drills, where he specialized in the step-back jumper -- a Dirk Nowitzki specialty. Ellenson is bigger and a better rebounder than Chriss. He also has a more refined midrange game, too. But he lacks the elite athletic ability and rim protection that Chriss provides.
That lack of explosiveness may end up hurting him as teams in the mid-to-late lottery decide between the two. But Ellenson's floor seems significantly higher than Chriss' and a team wanting to go a safer route (especially a team that thinks they can play him as a stretch-5) might choose the more polished Ellenson.

Jakob Poeltl, C, So., Utah

Poeltl is the top center prospect on our draft board and might be the only pure 5 man to go in the lottery. He has elite size for his position (standing 7-foot-1.25) and is a highly intelligent player who beats guys in the paint and on the boards.
The main knocks on Poeltl has been about his strength and his jump shot. Correcting those issues has been the focus of his workouts here.

He clearly has the frame to continue to add strength, but it's also toughness that scouts question. In workouts on Monday and Wednesday, he showed a lot of fight against the likes of Karl-Anthony Towns, Damian Jones and Yabusele. All of those players are stronger and more physical than Poeltl, but he held his own on both ends of the court. I think that's what scouts and GMs will want to see from him when he starts working out for teams.

His jump shot is coming along as well. He showed a really nice stroke from midrange and is working on extending it beyond the 3-point line. While his mechanics are a little awkward (he holds the ball out in front of his face as he shoots), the shot was going in during the workouts.

"I feel like I've improved my shot," Poeltl said. "We have a really good crew at Pro Active that do the strength part for us. We talked about it before I came here that they want to keep my agility while making me more athletic and more strong, not necessarily too heavy or slow."I want to stay the type of player I am right now, just get stronger in the process. I've noticed some improvements already."

Tyler Ulis, PG, So., Kentucky

Scouts don't really question anything about Ulis' game. He has the best court vision of anyone in the draft, with the exception of Ben Simmons. He's quick, finds the perfect balance between scoring and distributing the ball, disrupts on defense and acts as a consummate leader on the court.

But he's 5-foot-10 in shoes. Some teams won't even consider a guard that size, despite the success of Isaiah Thomas and other small guards in the league. No matter how well he sees the floor, shoots or defends, in many cases teams are averse to having players that small.

Ulis is working hard to change their minds. It's the two-on-two and three-on-three drills in which he really shines. He rarely, if ever, makes a bad pass. And when he's running the show, his team usually wins the contest.
He gives up size on both ends, but he makes up for it with terrific basketball IQ, elite speed and a toughness that invites his teammates to follow him.

"I've always have had confidence in my game," he said. "Seeing Isaiah Thomas or Chris Paul dominating the game despite being small gives me a lot of confidence. I feel I can excel at the next level. There's more space, more pick-and-rolls.
"I'm working on my body to get stronger and I think I'll be good. I'm a pass-first point guard who puts my teammates first. I score when I have to, but I try to make sure I set up my teammates to score if I can. I want to make the game easier for everyone."

Damian Jones, C, Jr., Vanderbilt

Jones remains one of the bigger enigmas in the draft. He has an NBA body (he's 6-foot-11.5 and 234 pounds with a 7-foot-3.75 wingspan) and is a crazy athlete for his size (think DeAndre Jordan). He also really surprises you in workouts with a smooth jump shot that extends out past the NBA 3-point line. Jones doesn't just shoot it well for a big man. He's a good shooter -- something you never really saw him do at Vanderbilt.

On paper, he should be a top-10 pick. And in a workout setting like this, he really looks like one. He's strong and super explosive and he can score in a variety of ways. He really passes the eye test.

But on the court, that didn't always show. He had several big games for Vanderbilt last season but also disappeared in key stretches. He didn't dominate in the way his physical talent suggested he should. Will that ultimately hurt him in the NBA?
Scouts are pretty mixed on that. Some see him solidly in the middle of the first round. Others have him in the second.

After his workout on Wednesday in front of roughly 100 NBA scouts, several teams singled him out as someone who impressed them.
"You just aren't going to find many guys in the draft that have his physical abilities," one GM said. "Remember that Andre Drummond and DeAndre Jordan were disappointing in college, too. I think his abilities will look a lot better in the NBA. I think you guys have him ranked too low. There's a lot to work with there." After watching him myself the past couple of days, I have to agree. He'll move up our Big Board into the first round in our next edition.

Guerschon Yabusele, PF, France

Yabusele has been the biggest surprise of the workout tour. While I've had him ranked as a bubble first-rounder for a while, seeing him against other top talent convinced me that he should be firmly in the mix.

He's one of the strongest players in the draft, and though he lacks elite height for his position, he makes up for it with length and surprising explosiveness and agility. There aren't a lot of 270-pound prospects who move like he does.
Yabusele more than held his own in the two days of workouts I saw against the likes of Poeltl, Jones and Alex Poythress. His physicality and aggressiveness on both ends should translate in the NBA. And like so many big men these days, he can really shoot the basketball.

"He's a really good player," one assistant GM told me on Wednesday. "He's very underrated because he's a little bit undersized. But to me he's like Jared Sullinger with athleticism. And he can play right now in the NBA."


Alex Poythress, F, Sr., Kentucky


Poythress has become the forgotten man. Almost four years ago, he made a brief appearance atop our Big Board after a strong showing early in his freshman year. He's one of the best athletes in the draft, he defends multiple positions and he finishes above the rim.

Alas, confidence issues and then injuries marred the second half of his college career.
His jump shot never came around, and, just when he started getting things going his junior season, an ACL injury knocked him out. Many scouts believe Kentucky would've gone undefeated had they had Poythress in that Final Four.
This year he played the entire season still recovering, and his trademark athleticism wasn't all there.
Six weeks of intensive rehab and training have helped. Poythress looked as bouncy as ever. He showed the ability to defend everyone in the gym and displayed an improved jump shot. It's still not where it needs to be, but it's getting there.
His defensive abilities warrant a team taking a chance on him in the second round as a potential 3-and-D player. Still, the second round is far away from where he was.

Poythress is taking the diminished expectations in stride. He graduated, started graduate school this year and is just a couple of classes away from a masters in sport leadership. "I feel a little forgotten," Poythress said. "It is what it is. I just come here every day trying to work hard, grinding through it, trying to reach my goals. "The pressure [at Kentucky] was crazy, but I feel like it prepared me to play in the NBA. It matured me. It helped me look at life in a different way."

Isaia Cordinier, SG, France

Cordinier has been on the NBA radar screen all year, but a lackluster performance at the Nike Hoop Summit in April diminished his draft stock. He showed up in Los Angeles on Monday for his first workouts here, and he looked much more comfortable.
He shot the ball well, was very competitive in the two-on-two and three-on-three matchups and especially showed an ability to create his own shot off the dribble. He needs to get stronger and more consistent as a shooter, but I saw a lot of promise.
Ron Baker, G, Sr., Wichita State

Baker is a former walk-on turned draft prospect. Few players can make such a claim.
His ability to play both the 1 and the 2, his shooting stroke and his toughness all make him an intriguing guy for the second round. And the analytics crowd loves him.

He shot the ball really well in workouts, did gritty work on the defensive end trying to contain Kris Dunn and showed a terrific motor and attitude in the workouts. He plays so hard on both ends that coaches will fall in love with him.
"He's got a chance," one GM told me after the workout. "I'm not sure exactly where he gets drafted, but that doesn't matter. What matters is whether you can stick in the league, and I think he has a skill set and work ethic to stick."

Brandon Austin, G/F, Jr., Northwest Florida
Austin is an under-the-radar prospect relatively unknown to NBA scouts after he bounced around schools (he was twice accused of sexual assault in college).

Several scouts I spoke with at the workout on Wednesday said he was the surprise of the day. His athleticism, quickness and shooting ability are intriguing to teams despite the fact that he's still pretty raw due to missing so much time on the court the past few years. He's a project but might be worth taking a flier on
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1749 » by Celts17Pride » Sat May 28, 2016 4:32 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:I'm on the Bender hype train, already! Was down on him at 1st, but for a 18 year old, he has major potential. Could be the best player in the draft, if he develops as expected.

As I mentioned in the other thread if you are going to draft Bender at 3 then Ainge has to sign P Gasol, Noah or Dwight Howard for 2-3 years otherwise the pick will be a disaster. Bender won't be ready for 2-3 years.

Bender will be playing like crap with the 3rd pick expectations and the fans and media will eat him alive. Need to bring him along slowly.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1750 » by lon3lytoaster » Sat May 28, 2016 4:32 pm

I like Jamal Murray but I've decided bender needs to be the pick. He's not going to be a guy to single handedly drive you to the finals, but he's going to be an all star caliber 2nd/3rd guy.

The real treat with him is his help defense that leads to transition buckets. He's a terrific outlet passer, like terrific and he'll grab a board and go. I absolutely love that. How many times have we seen fat ass Sullinger make a terrific outlet that leads to easy chances for AB or Crowder? Imagine that with height, length and mobility. The spot up shooting aspect of his game is also appealing.

I'd like to see him work on shooting on the break as the trailer. I haven't seen much of that. Could also benefit from a turnaround jumper in the half court. Fortunately there's plenty of time to add elements to his game.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1751 » by Homerclease » Sat May 28, 2016 4:43 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:I'm on the Bender hype train, already! Was down on him at 1st, but for a 18 year old, he has major potential. Could be the best player in the draft, if he develops as expected.

As I mentioned in the other thread if you are going to draft Bender at 3 then Ainge has to sign P Gasol, Noah or Dwight Howard for 2-3 years otherwise the pick will be a disaster. Bender won't be ready for 2-3 years.

Bender will be playing like crap with the 3rd pick expectations and the fans and media will eat him alive. Need to bring him along slowly.

What's the rush again? Who are they drafting that's going to push them past Cleveland in less than 2-3 years?
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1752 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat May 28, 2016 5:20 pm

Not surprising workouts favor Yabusele, not sure his upside, but sounds somewhere in between Leon Powe and Brandon Bass (when he was coming out of college). Interesting Damian Jones can shoot, supposedly. Another guy to put in the mix at 16 and 23, but with a big bust risk.

Still no idea what to make of Poeltl.

Or what to do about Dunn. When it really comes down to it, he could be better than Smart, Bradley and Thomas. Already probably a better prospect coming out of college than Smart was.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1753 » by Murta » Sat May 28, 2016 5:42 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/736609905302339584[/tweet]

Obligatory listen.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1754 » by Wes-J » Sat May 28, 2016 5:52 pm

BfB wrote:
Froob wrote:
Leprechaun18 wrote:
Poeltl was the go to guy on his team. The Pac 12 isnt a weak conference. He played well against Duke two seasons in a row. He is a very good rebounder. He shut down Okafor in last years sweet sixteen. Don Mclean does a very good job preparing prospects for the NBA. Last season Mclean help KAT transform his body which help him have a dominate rookie season.

Bender has shown nothing. He wants to be a small forward like Kukoc. What if Bender puts on 25 pounds and his max vertical gets even worse? Its very dangerous to pick based only on supposed potential. You pick based on potential later in the draft. If you pick 3 and the player busts the GM could get fired.

Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.


Just for the record, Bender has played in a bunch of age apropriate competition and beasted. College guys play vs college guys and we are fine evaluating them even though almost none do **** their first few years vs adults. Yet, Bender continues to get shelled for his play vs adults while his junior level stuff is ignored....just ignorant...


And when I was young I played against adults in the premier church league. I beasted that ****!

Whats your point? :lol:
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1755 » by gammajamma » Sat May 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Wes-J wrote:
BfB wrote:
Froob wrote:Ainge isn't getting fired but , I definitely see your point for Phoenix. Too risky.


Just for the record, Bender has played in a bunch of age apropriate competition and beasted. College guys play vs college guys and we are fine evaluating them even though almost none do **** their first few years vs adults. Yet, Bender continues to get shelled for his play vs adults while his junior level stuff is ignored....just ignorant...


And when I was young I played against adults in the premier church league. I beasted that ****!

Whats your point? :lol:


Lol because the competition at the premier church is comparable to a professional league :roll:
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1756 » by Froob » Sat May 28, 2016 6:30 pm

What's Murray's deal and how does he compare to Buddy?
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1757 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat May 28, 2016 6:54 pm

Murta wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/736609905302339584[/tweet]

Obligatory listen.

Places Okafor 4th or 5th in this draft class. Prefers Noel for the Celtics. We apparently make a similar argument (my post on the Okafor thread). But he also doesn't dismiss the possibility that Okafor can improve on defense. Still wouldn't trade #3 for him.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1758 » by Murta » Sat May 28, 2016 7:09 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:
Murta wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/RedsArmy_John/status/736609905302339584[/tweet]

Obligatory listen.

Places Okafor 4th or 5th in this draft class. Prefers Noel for the Celtics. We apparently make a similar argument (my post on the Okafor thread).

Other things:
- rates Luwawu, Baldwin (jumpshot, defense, athleticism) and Valentine very high
- doesn't like Murray
- thinks Simmons will be a high end role player, 2nd or 3rd guy on championship team, concerned about his defensive will
- intrigued by Chriss, but sees glaring concerns
- tiptoeing a bit about Bender, but rates him high
- stash option at 23 is Žižić and he's intrigued by Juancho Hernangomez
- very weird answer to who could be top 3 players in this class in 2021: Valentine, Baldwin, DeAndre Bembry - though it's more about exceeding expectations
- IDK if there's been a single word about Ingram
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1759 » by radcot » Sat May 28, 2016 7:26 pm

Someone on the podcast also made the interesting point (with which O'Connor seemed to concur) that this is being called a "two player draft" because Simmons and Ingram are the only 2 where there's a consensus about their draft positions. Doesn't mean the drop off in talent is as steep as the phrase implies.
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Re: "WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2 

Post#1760 » by lon3lytoaster » Sat May 28, 2016 7:47 pm

Luwawu is a stud. Would be very content trading up for him if needed. Bender/Luwawu will take time to develop but fill some holes. We need an athletic, lanky SF with shooting ability.

I think other than Ingram, Luwawu might be the best SF in this class.

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