Gordon Hayward Thread

[zoyathedestroya]

Not sure if this has been posted on one of the zillion pages of this thread, but just for perspective, Gordon was not better in his all-star season at Utah, he just had less talent around him so he took more shots. He's more efficient and has actually gone up in most statistical categories, playing 2 less minutes per game.

UTAH 2016-17:
FG: 47.1% __ 3pFG: 39.8% __ FT: 84.4% __ Rb: 5.4 __ Ast: 3.5 __ Pts: 21.9

BOS 2019-20:
FG: 50.8% __ 3pFG: 37.8% __ FT: 87.7% __ Rb: 6.4 __ Ast: 3.9 __ Pts: 17.0

Only difference between the two seasons is he was more athletic back then while being smarter now.

Also the difference between being the number one option and number 3 or 4, depending on health. It’s a lot easier for him to be efficient this year than his All Star year.

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking him. But, I don’t think he’s back at that level quite yet.

I think at this point, that's the closest we'll get to the best Gordon version, post-leg injury. If by now, he hasn't recovered his athleticism and burst from his Utah days, I don't believe he ever will. We're 18 months removed from his second surgery.

In terms of what he produces relative to his role/usage, I'm quite satisfied. Hopefully, his next paycheck (if it's with us) would be more reflective of that. We can't max/near-max a 4th option player on the team.

[djFan71]

Only difference between the two seasons is he was more athletic back then while being smarter now.

Also the difference between being the number one option and number 3 or 4, depending on health. It’s a lot easier for him to be efficient this year than his All Star year.

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking him. But, I don’t think he’s back at that level quite yet.

I think at this point, that's the closest we'll get to the best Gordon version, post-leg injury. If by now, he hasn't recovered his athleticism and burst from his Utah days, I don't believe he ever will. We're 18 months removed from his second surgery.

In terms of what he produces relative to his role/usage, I'm quite satisfied. Hopefully, his next paycheck (if it's with us) would be more reflective of that. We can't max/near-max a 4th option player on the team.

Absolutely, I’m happy with where he’s at. He just doesn’t have the opportunity for all star usage on this team. And won’t going forward unless there’s some major moves.

[5InOfLouisville]

Minus the one game where everyone wanted to trade him for various Eastern Europeans role players, Gordo is on a quite a little streak. If we continue to get this version, we are a dangerous team.

I don't know if he is "all the way" back, but i continue to maintain that he was never particularly athletic/explosive in the first place. I do think he has been tentative at times during the recovery process, but he seems more decisive and instinctual this year, especially recently. He is stronger and heavier than he was, so if he is slightly more groundbound, I think his strength more than makes up for it. He seems to be able to drop a shoulder and get exactly where he wants against most defenders.

Either way, after all he's been through, it's good to see him shining.

[MagicBagley18]

Minus the one game where everyone wanted to trade him for various Eastern Europeans role players, Gordo is on a quite a little streak. If we continue to get this version, we are a dangerous team.

I don't know if he is "all the way" back, but i continue to maintain that he was never particularly athletic/explosive in the first place. I do think he has been tentative at times during the recovery process, but he seems more decisive and instinctual this year, especially recently. He is stronger and heavier than he was, so if he is slightly more groundbound, I think his strength more than makes up for it. He seems to be able to drop a shoulder and get exactly where he wants against most defenders.

Either way, after all he's been through, it's good to see him shining.

I agree with all of this except the part about his athleticism. Go check out his Utah days particularly last 2 years before free agency, he had some bounce and dunked on people regular. Had a nasty one on giannis. Now some of that is relative bc u look at him and expect so little athleticism that when he does anything it’s shocking but he caught lobs and threw down contested dunks prettt regular.

Nonetheless, him playing like this is pretty key to how far we can go this season

[5InOfLouisville]

Minus the one game where everyone wanted to trade him for various Eastern Europeans role players, Gordo is on a quite a little streak. If we continue to get this version, we are a dangerous team.

I don't know if he is "all the way" back, but i continue to maintain that he was never particularly athletic/explosive in the first place. I do think he has been tentative at times during the recovery process, but he seems more decisive and instinctual this year, especially recently. He is stronger and heavier than he was, so if he is slightly more groundbound, I think his strength more than makes up for it. He seems to be able to drop a shoulder and get exactly where he wants against most defenders.

Either way, after all he's been through, it's good to see him shining.

I agree with all of this except the part about his athleticism. Go check out his Utah days particularly last 2 years before free agency, he had some bounce and dunked on people regular. Had a nasty one on giannis. Now some of that is relative bc u look at him and expect so little athleticism that when he does anything it’s shocking but he caught lobs and threw down contested dunks prettt regular.

Nonetheless, him playing like this is pretty key to how far we can go this season

lol, yeah, sometimes i feel like im being a little racist, but I do agree that gordo showed lots of athletic flashes in Utah. but to some degree, he still does, although they are more sporadic. Someone actually posted a highlight video from his utah days for me to watch, and I did so.

TBF, he did look pretty bouncy in the video, but i bet if i isolated the plays, i could make an athletic gordo highlight video of celtics clips.

on balance, you are probably right. I think this iteration of gordo is probably bigger and stronger, but less bouncy. I still think that maybe some overstate his athleticism in Utah, but im probably understating it, so like most of the time, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

My apologies to the white man.

[zoyathedestroya]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

[100proof]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

Assuming Gordon opts in
assuming that Kanter opts out
assuming the non guaranteed contracts of Javonte is dropped
assuming the non guaranteed contract of Thies is picked up
assuming the QO is offered to Brad

the team payroll WITHOUT ANY DRAFT PICKS would be a little north of 136 million.

If team gave Gordon a 20 mill a year after next season and signed Tatum to the same deal as brown, again ignoring any MLE signing or LLE signing and draft picks team payroll in 21-22 would be 138 million

[zoyathedestroya]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

Assuming Gordon opts in
assuming that Kanter opts out
assuming the non guaranteed contracts of Javonte is dropped
assuming the non guaranteed contract of Thies is picked up
assuming the QO is offered to Brad

the team payroll WITHOUT ANY DRAFT PICKS would be a little north of 136 million.

If team gave Gordon a 20 mill a year after next season and signed Tatum to the same deal as brown, again ignoring any MLE signing or LLE signing and draft picks team payroll in 21-22 would be 138 million

I was asking about Gordon's numbers specifically. How much would his extension look like? For how many years can we legally extend him?

Anyway, I have us at a little under $139M with 13 players next season -- Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Langford, Poirier, Edwards, Williams, Williams, Wanamaker (QO), Gordo (PO exercised), rookie (own 1st signed). Under projected tax line ($142M).

So even if we go into tax following season when Tatum's new contract and Gordon's extension kick in, not a big deal since repeater tax is avoided.

[sully00]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

Boston can negotiate an extension to his max salary for up to 5 years. There is no gap between Gordon's max and what he is currently making. In rough numbers Gordon's max from Boston would be 5 years 202 mil. I don't see that happening. As free agent he would be eligible for roughly the same 4 years 140 mil that Kemba signed for from another team.

I think the most likely scenario is. That they will give him a 3 years 75 mil on top of his 34 mil option. So it will be combined a 4 years 109 mil but will be set up in a way to give Boston increasing flexibility over time. Similar scenario with how they dealt with KG and Pierce.

[sam_I_am]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

Boston can negotiate an extension to his max salary for up to 5 years. There is no gap between Gordon's max and what he is currently making. In rough numbers Gordon's max from Boston would be 5 years 202 mil. I don't see that happening. As free agent he would be eligible for roughly the same 4 years 140 mil that Kemba signed for from another team.

I think the most likely scenario is. That they will give him a 3 years 75 mil on top of his 34 mil option. So it will be combined a 4 years 109 mil but will be set up in a way to give Boston increasing flexibility over time. Similar scenario with how they dealt with KG and Pierce.

As head of the trade Hayward committee....I could live with that. However, I see him opting out and taking the 140 million instead of “settling” for 110

[Dannyboy36]

Only difference between the two seasons is he was more athletic back then while being smarter now.

Also the difference between being the number one option and number 3 or 4, depending on health. It’s a lot easier for him to be efficient this year than his All Star year.

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking him. But, I don’t think he’s back at that level quite yet.

I think at this point, that's the closest we'll get to the best Gordon version, post-leg injury. If by now, he hasn't recovered his athleticism and burst from his Utah days, I don't believe he ever will. We're 18 months removed from his second surgery.

In terms of what he produces relative to his role/usage, I'm quite satisfied. Hopefully, his next paycheck (if it's with us) would be more reflective of that. We can't max/near-max a 4th option player on the team.[/quote

The dude should be our 2nd option.

[zoyathedestroya]

Also the difference between being the number one option and number 3 or 4, depending on health. It’s a lot easier for him to be efficient this year than his All Star year.

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking him. But, I don’t think he’s back at that level quite yet.

I think at this point, that's the closest we'll get to the best Gordon version, post-leg injury. If by now, he hasn't recovered his athleticism and burst from his Utah days, I don't believe he ever will. We're 18 months removed from his second surgery.

In terms of what he produces relative to his role/usage, I'm quite satisfied. Hopefully, his next paycheck (if it's with us) would be more reflective of that. We can't max/near-max a 4th option player on the team.[/quote

The dude should be our 2nd option.

I am in agreement with you. At least he should be handling the ball more even when Kemba's back.

[sully00]

In case he opts in (I don't think he will), can the Celtics negotiate an extension with him right away for 2021 and beyond (not that I think he will accept an extension)? What type of numbers are we looking at?

Just more a question to CBA experts.

Boston can negotiate an extension to his max salary for up to 5 years. There is no gap between Gordon's max and what he is currently making. In rough numbers Gordon's max from Boston would be 5 years 202 mil. I don't see that happening. As free agent he would be eligible for roughly the same 4 years 140 mil that Kemba signed for from another team.

I think the most likely scenario is. That they will give him a 3 years 75 mil on top of his 34 mil option. So it will be combined a 4 years 109 mil but will be set up in a way to give Boston increasing flexibility over time. Similar scenario with how they dealt with KG and Pierce.

As head of the trade Hayward committee....I could live with that. However, I see him opting out and taking the 140 million instead of “settling” for 110

If it is is out there for him that is fine but dude is going to be 30 can you imagine paying him 40 mil bucks at 34-35 years old? The 109 is actually what Horford got from PHI.

I was looking at this and just wasn't seeing it for Hayward. I think 20-25 mil a depending on cap space is going to be his market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/type-veteran/

[Soulcatcher33]

Boston can negotiate an extension to his max salary for up to 5 years. There is no gap between Gordon's max and what he is currently making. In rough numbers Gordon's max from Boston would be 5 years 202 mil. I don't see that happening. As free agent he would be eligible for roughly the same 4 years 140 mil that Kemba signed for from another team.

I think the most likely scenario is. That they will give him a 3 years 75 mil on top of his 34 mil option. So it will be combined a 4 years 109 mil but will be set up in a way to give Boston increasing flexibility over time. Similar scenario with how they dealt with KG and Pierce.

As head of the trade Hayward committee....I could live with that. However, I see him opting out and taking the 140 million instead of “settling” for 110

If it is is out there for him that is fine but dude is going to be 30 can you imagine paying him 40 mil bucks at 34-35 years old? The 109 is actually what Horford got from PHI.

I was looking at this and just wasn't seeing it for Hayward. I think 20-25 mil a depending on cap space is going to be his market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/type-veteran/

Horford is also nearly 4 years older so I don't know why you are bringing him up. Hayward won't be offered the max, but he'll likely for sure see some offers of 120/4.

[Darth Celtic]

Well. I can tell you he is worth more than Drummond



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[sully00]

As head of the trade Hayward committee....I could live with that. However, I see him opting out and taking the 140 million instead of “settling” for 110

If it is is out there for him that is fine but dude is going to be 30 can you imagine paying him 40 mil bucks at 34-35 years old? The 109 is actually what Horford got from PHI.

I was looking at this and just wasn't seeing it for Hayward. I think 20-25 mil a depending on cap space is going to be his market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/type-veteran/

Horford is also nearly 4 years older so I don't know why you are bringing him up. Hayward won't be offered the max, but he'll likely for sure see some offers of 120/4.

What is your point? Hayward isn't going to get a max contract then why not try and keep your 34 mil option year and do an extension with Boston makes sense right? What the actual numbers are up for negotiation. What is your comparison for a 30 year old Gordon Hayward in FA? On the positive side I would look at Draymond Green and Jrue Holiday, Nikola Vucevic these are guys either 29 or 30 years old and they get 25 mil a season.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

[zoyathedestroya]

If it is is out there for him that is fine but dude is going to be 30 can you imagine paying him 40 mil bucks at 34-35 years old? The 109 is actually what Horford got from PHI.

I was looking at this and just wasn't seeing it for Hayward. I think 20-25 mil a depending on cap space is going to be his market.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/type-veteran/

Horford is also nearly 4 years older so I don't know why you are bringing him up. Hayward won't be offered the max, but he'll likely for sure see some offers of 120/4.

What is your point? Hayward isn't going to get a max contract then why not try and keep your 34 mil option year and do an extension with Boston makes sense right? What the actual numbers are up for negotiation. What is your comparison for a 30 year old Gordon Hayward in FA? On the positive side I would look at Draymond Green and Jrue Holiday, Nikola Vucevic these are guys either 29 or 30 years old and they get 25 mil a season.

Rising cap. Better to use % of cap than actual $$ figures when finding comps. Bigs are also usually paid less than wings and guards in today's NBA. I think a healthy Gordon is at worst 3rd most impactful/important player on a contender. So Draymond might be a good comparison.

[sam_I_am]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

[Parliament10]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

They can have him.
We don't need him. We have the Jays. And they're a lot younger, with much more upside.