"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[sam_I_am]

The simple fact that Jaylen Brown is so similar to Justise Winslow makes me think that he is the dark horse to watch.

Similar size and athleticism, but pretty much ends there. Winslow's statistical profile was strong and Brown's is not.

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

[165bows]

Your rankings mean nothing to me. I do not agree with them. Perhaps you could give reasons for your rankings?

I mean, of course you dont, that's why they are mine.
If you could give me some questions related to specific players I could explain more, in terms of general stuff;

I am high on defense, value it as much as offense, more when it comes to some positions.
I value youth and numbers, but also tools and projectable skills.
I value BPA but also later in the draft, after top10 or so, what position has more value, this draft is loaded with bigs, so the ones that are a bit iffy, low chance of reaching their ceiling or have major flaws, fall hard.

Well explain why you have Bender in the top tier. Tell us why he will not bust. Will he become the next Toni Kukoc?

I personally don't care what your rankings are. You want us to know your rankings. So you are seeking credibility. Sorry for analyzing you, but perhaps your need to get noticed has influenced your rankings.

The draft sites do consult with team scouts and use them to form their mock drafts. Some of them also break down a prospects ability in different areas to predict future success. Why should we care about your draft rankings?

He gets stuff wrong sometimes like everybody else but at least he's watched Bender play a full game unlike most lol. It's a more informed opinion than most far as I can tell since he's actually seen most of these guys play.

[Curmudgeon]

Folks who think Jaylen Brown is the next big thing should go over to youtube and watch the DraftExpress scouting video of Anthony Bennett. He looks fabulous. Athleticism and an "NBA body" just isn't enough.

The more I look at this draft, the more I think it is one that will make several GMs look really, really bad, especially if they stick with the conventional wisdom. I hope Ainge isn't one of them.

[Celtsfan1980]

For the Bender fans, which bigs should we pair up with Bender in this draft? May want scoring and rebounding.

I'm on the Bender hype train, already! Was down on him at 1st, but for a 18 year old, he has major potential. Could be the best player in the draft, if he develops as expected.

As I mentioned in the other thread if you are going to draft Bender at 3 then Ainge has to sign P Gasol, Noah or Dwight Howard for 2-3 years otherwise the pick will be a disaster. Bender won't be ready for 2-3 years.

Bender will be playing like crap with the 3rd pick expectations and the fans and media will eat him alive. Need to bring him along slowly.

What's the rush again? Who are they drafting that's going to push them past Cleveland in less than 2-3 years?

Father Time as early as next year. Lebron can't get this lucky forever.

[Wes-J]

I've always loved Jaylen Brown but I've always said he needs time. Taking a player @3 without the big picture in mind would be a chicken**** move.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Folks who think Jaylen Brown is the next big thing should go over to youtube and watch the DraftExpress scouting video of Anthony Bennett. He looks fabulous. Athleticism and an "NBA body" just isn't enough.

The more I look at this draft, the more I think it is one that will make several GMs look really, really bad, especially if they stick with the conventional wisdom. I hope Ainge isn't one of them.

If we're comparing prospects who are nothing alike, why stop there? Let's look at a video of Jan Vessely and use it as justification for why we shouldn't take Bender.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Folks who think Jaylen Brown is the next big thing should go over to youtube and watch the DraftExpress scouting video of Anthony Bennett. He looks fabulous. Athleticism and an "NBA body" just isn't enough.

The more I look at this draft, the more I think it is one that will make several GMs look really, really bad, especially if they stick with the conventional wisdom. I hope Ainge isn't one of them.

Bennett looked better than Brown coming out of college. But taking him first was a huge mistake, he crumpled under the hype. Also had major health issues- surgery, difficulty taking weight off, plus asthma.

[darrendaye]

For the Bender fans, which bigs should we pair up with Bender in this draft? May want scoring and rebounding.

Firstly, I think it's a mistake to have too much focus on immediate needs. That said, I like the idea of drafting the guy due to his length, defensive flexibility, and ball-handling ability combined with expected perimeter shooting success. I don't think it's absurd to think he could ultimately play SF if chips fall where Ainge finds impact players a 4 and 5 in a few years.

To touch on your specific question, a guy like Ellenson suddenly becomes more palatable. Zubac is intriguing but I can appreciate the argument about drafting two developmental guys. Someone in another thread brought up trading for Greg Monroe, if we are so desperate for guys who can who can be a scoring focal point RIGHT NOW. I'm not in the camp, but it's an option.

Overall, though, I'd be psyched to have Smart, Crowder, and Bender out there as a defensive core with the ability to switch and mitigate weaker defense scoring options. They, along with Bradley and Mickey give Coach Stevens a high degree of mix and match possibilities if (and when) Ainge can acquire another big scorer.

[Homerclease]

For the Bender fans, which bigs should we pair up with Bender in this draft? May want scoring and rebounding.

As I mentioned in the other thread if you are going to draft Bender at 3 then Ainge has to sign P Gasol, Noah or Dwight Howard for 2-3 years otherwise the pick will be a disaster. Bender won't be ready for 2-3 years.

Bender will be playing like crap with the 3rd pick expectations and the fans and media will eat him alive. Need to bring him along slowly.

What's the rush again? Who are they drafting that's going to push them past Cleveland in less than 2-3 years?

Father Time as early as next year. Lebron can't get this lucky forever.

To answer your first question id be looking at Skal and Sabonis at 16 for a scoring/rebounding big respectively. At 23 you have Damian Jones and Thon Maker as well who I hope the celts are watching. Sabonis and Jones could probably immediately contribute while Skal and Maker are project bigs as well.

Now I'll repeat my question again, who are the Celtics drafting that's going to push them past Cleveland in the next 2-3 years?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Still hoping it goes Ingram/Bender and Simmons slips to us at 3, becomes next Celtics all-star. Combination of athleticism, playmaking, passing, size, and the potential to fix his shot.

Philly takes Ingram for his scoring potential, Kupchak looks at Porzingis, remembers the gamble on Andrew Bynum, knows they have Randle at the 4, and drafts Bender. Or trades 2 for Okafor, and Philly takes Dunn.

Simmons slipping is the absolute best-case scenario.

[Duke4life831]

The simple fact that Jaylen Brown is so similar to Justise Winslow makes me think that he is the dark horse to watch.

Similar size and athleticism, but pretty much ends there. Winslow's statistical profile was strong and Brown's is not.

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

[lon3lytoaster]

Still hoping it goes Ingram/Bender and Simmons slips to us at 3, becomes next Celtics all-star. Combination of athleticism, playmaking, passing, size, and the potential to fix his shot.

Philly takes Ingram for his scoring potential, Kupchak looks at Porzingis, remembers the gamble on Andrew Bynum, knows they have Randle at the 4, and drafts Bender. Or trades 2 for Okafor, and Philly takes Dunn.

Simmons slipping is the absolute best-case scenario.

He'd really have to tank his workouts/interviews with philly and catch LA off guard. Still, I think even if the Lakers were completely unprepared for him his agent would have enough pull to get him there.

[Captain_Caveman]

No thanks on Jaylen.

[threrf23]

Similar size and athleticism, but pretty much ends there. Winslow's statistical profile was strong and Brown's is not.

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

Elaborating a little, Winslow was known for his defense, smarts, and intangibles. His A/TO ratio was twice as good as Brown's (ETA not twice as good but notably better), he had more steals and blocks despite less fouls, he rebounded slightly better, he shot over 40% from 3 rather than less than 30% for Brown and he also shot a higher percentage from 2 in conference play. In the tourney, Winslow averaged 14.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.9 TO, 2.7 PF while shooting 52% from the field and 57% from 3....as Duke won a championship. Jaylen Brown was said to play with inconsistent energy, and in the tourney he posted 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 2 REB, 0 ast, 0stl, 0 blk, 5 PF, 7 TO in 17 minutes played as Cal was upset by a 13th seeded Hawaii team. Brown was also about half a year older than Winslow.

One thing they had in common was an NBA ready body as a freshman. On one hand that is an advantage, on one hand it means they probably both have less upside than people assume (since, relatively speaking, they have less to gain from others as a result of impending physical maturation).

[Duke4life831]

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

Elaborating a little, Winslow was known for his defense, smarts, and intangibles. His A/TO ratio was twice as good as Brown's (ETA not twice as good but notably better), he had more steals and blocks despite less fouls, he rebounded slightly better, he shot over 40% from 3 rather than less than 30% for Brown and he also shot a higher percentage from 2 in conference play. In the tourney, Winslow averaged 14.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.9 TO, 2.7 PF while shooting 52% from the field and 57% from 3....as Duke won a championship. Jaylen Brown was said to play with inconsistent energy, and in the tourney he posted 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 2 REB, 0 ast, 0stl, 0 blk, 5 PF, 7 TO in 17 minutes played as Cal was upset by a 13th seeded Hawaii team. Brown was also about half a year older than Winslow.

One thing they had in common was an NBA ready body as a freshman. On one hand that is an advantage, on one hand it means they probably both have less upside than people assume (since, relatively speaking, they have less to gain from others as a result of impending physical maturation).

I agree with everything except for them maybe having less upside than expected. I think both guys have really high potential because of their bodys and athleticism. Theyre both great athletes and if either one of them gets a knock down jumper like Jimmy or Kawhi then they can really maximize their potential. The thing with Justise is his floor is much higher than Browns. Weve seen his floor, really smart player with a great work ethic, that at the age of 20 is already a top end perimeter defender. Brown isnt the defender Justise is and doesnt have the same BB IQ. So that makes Brown a lot more of a risk than Justise or Stanley was. But I think all 3 guys have high potential if they can ever get that jumper down, and thats a big IF

[Andrew McCeltic]

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

Elaborating a little, Winslow was known for his defense, smarts, and intangibles. His A/TO ratio was twice as good as Brown's (ETA not twice as good but notably better), he had more steals and blocks despite less fouls, he rebounded slightly better, he shot over 40% from 3 rather than less than 30% for Brown and he also shot a higher percentage from 2 in conference play. In the tourney, Winslow averaged 14.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.9 TO, 2.7 PF while shooting 52% from the field and 57% from 3....as Duke won a championship. Jaylen Brown was said to play with inconsistent energy, and in the tourney he posted 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 2 REB, 0 ast, 0stl, 0 blk, 5 PF, 7 TO in 17 minutes played as Cal was upset by a 13th seeded Hawaii team. Brown was also about half a year older than Winslow.

One thing they had in common was an NBA ready body as a freshman. On one hand that is an advantage, on one hand it means they probably both have less upside than people assume (since, relatively speaking, they have less to gain from others as a result of impending physical maturation).

Yup, Brown sucks but the raw materials are in place to coach him. He's apparently really really smart, too, which can be a blessing and a curse as far as coachability.

[Duke4life831]

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

Elaborating a little, Winslow was known for his defense, smarts, and intangibles. His A/TO ratio was twice as good as Brown's (ETA not twice as good but notably better), he had more steals and blocks despite less fouls, he rebounded slightly better, he shot over 40% from 3 rather than less than 30% for Brown and he also shot a higher percentage from 2 in conference play. In the tourney, Winslow averaged 14.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.9 TO, 2.7 PF while shooting 52% from the field and 57% from 3....as Duke won a championship. Jaylen Brown was said to play with inconsistent energy, and in the tourney he posted 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 2 REB, 0 ast, 0stl, 0 blk, 5 PF, 7 TO in 17 minutes played as Cal was upset by a 13th seeded Hawaii team. Brown was also about half a year older than Winslow.

One thing they had in common was an NBA ready body as a freshman. On one hand that is an advantage, on one hand it means they probably both have less upside than people assume (since, relatively speaking, they have less to gain from others as a result of impending physical maturation).

Yup, Brown sucks but the raw materials are in place to coach him. He's apparently really really smart, too, which can be a blessing and a curse as far as coachability.

Yup and interviews are only going to help this dude. You instantly like him after hearing him talk for more than a minute. Very well spoken and comes off as a very nice kid whenever he talks. There will be no coachability issues with this kid, every coach that has ever coached him speaks very very highly of him. Im a big fan of Brown's, again super raw with a bust potential but the dude is a physical beast. I hope he puts it together.

[Grahf]

The simple fact that Jaylen Brown is so similar to Justise Winslow makes me think that he is the dark horse to watch.

Similar size and athleticism, but pretty much ends there. Winslow's statistical profile was strong and Brown's is not.

They definitely have some differences, but their profile is pretty similar: NBA ready defense, very raw offense, awesome on the break, etc. I think Brown is slightly more likely to bust but also slightly more likely to become an all star. As for stats, Winslow's team was much better, which probably played a big role in his production.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Brown's slashing ability is much better than Winslow.

Winslow was a really good slasher in college. Not as good as Brown but still really good. Winslow was the far superior defender, Stanley was a far superior defender. The only reason those two guys got playing time this year was because of their defense. I don't see a way Brown would get legit playing time on a playoff caliber team as a rookie like those two did. The fanbase of team that drafts Brown needs to realize that he is a project. Great physical specimen but not much else at the moment.

Elaborating a little, Winslow was known for his defense, smarts, and intangibles. His A/TO ratio was twice as good as Brown's (ETA not twice as good but notably better), he had more steals and blocks despite less fouls, he rebounded slightly better, he shot over 40% from 3 rather than less than 30% for Brown and he also shot a higher percentage from 2 in conference play. In the tourney, Winslow averaged 14.3 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.7 bpg, 1.9 TO, 2.7 PF while shooting 52% from the field and 57% from 3....as Duke won a championship. Jaylen Brown was said to play with inconsistent energy, and in the tourney he posted 4 points on 1-6 shooting, 2 REB, 0 ast, 0stl, 0 blk, 5 PF, 7 TO in 17 minutes played as Cal was upset by a 13th seeded Hawaii team. Brown was also about half a year older than Winslow.

One thing they had in common was an NBA ready body as a freshman. On one hand that is an advantage, on one hand it means they probably both have less upside than people assume (since, relatively speaking, they have less to gain from others as a result of impending physical maturation).

I caution you to not heavily overweight 1 tourny game. See Jabari Parker vs Mercer. Sometimes bad games just happen at inopportune times.

[rickrolled]

I wonder what it takes for Lakers to get Paul George or Cousins or Butler.

Can't sign and trade restricted guys iirc, so no clarkson trades. Only randle and russell plus the number 2. If they trade just one of those players plus the pick their stuck with either Russell with one of PG,DMC,JB or Randle with one of the 3. If they trade both they're going to be set back years. Ok so they have clarkson but he's not any good.

Plus they would be 2-3 years away from attracting another star to LA with only one of the guys above plus one of randle/russell.