Gordon Hayward Thread

[zoyathedestroya]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

[claycarver]

Read on Twitter

So, he can take Dragic's salary slot in Miami, stick with us or...just ease into low pressure semi-retirement on a crappy team.

[zoyathedestroya]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

With the Celtics, he can be offered something around Brown's contract extension ($108M/4 yrs) on top of the final year of his current contract ($34.38M). That provides him long-term security on a potential contender playing for a coach he has a deep relationship with, staying in the city he's been in the past 3 years. He could certainly play out his contract and join the more crowded 2021 FA market once he's 31. More teams would have cap space then.

[Bleeding Green]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

It only takes one team to offer him a max. These teams can easily get into max space territory:

Spurs (DeRozan leaves, renounce Bellinelli, Forbes)
Bulls (OPJ leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Kris Dunn)
Cleveland (Drummond leaves, renounce Thompson, Delly)
Utah (Conley leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Clarkson)
Lakers (AD leaves, renounce Howard, DMC) -- lmao

I'm too lazy to keep looking. Also allow that anyone can swing a S+T. It's easy enough to clear cap if you really want to, not sure the demand will be there, but really it only takes one offer from the Knicks or Hawks and now do you want to sign Hayward to a 4/150 deal or whatever?

[zoyathedestroya]

Horford is a 12/6 guy and got 110/ yr at age 33. I feel like people here are oblivious to what the market is. Gordon may have underperformed his max deal with us....but he is showing he would be huge upgrade at SF for about 25 teams.

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

It only takes one team to offer him a max. These teams can easily get into max space territory:

Spurs (DeRozan leaves, renounce Bellinelli, Forbes)
Bulls (OPJ leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Kris Dunn)
Cleveland (Drummond leaves, renounce Thompson, Delly)
Utah (Conley leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Clarkson)
Lakers (AD leaves, renounce Howard, DMC) -- lmao

I'm too lazy to keep looking. Also allow that anyone can swing a S+T. It's easy enough to clear cap if you really want to, not sure the demand will be there, but really it only takes one offer from the Knicks or Hawks and now do you want to sign Hayward to a 4/150 deal or whatever?

DeRozan leaves and goes where? Doubt AD leaves.
Like I said, God bless him if he wants to play for the Knicks or some other trash franchise. So $176M for 4 years on a crappy franchise or $142M over 5 yrs (could be negotiated depending on our other priorities/tax situation) on a contender playing for Brad?

[sam_I_am]

If this season has been as fun for the players as the marketing dept. wants us to believe then he may very well be so motivated to stay that he’ll leave 40 mil on the table or opt in and risk losing his last big payday. Anyway, my pseudo-Wannabe-GM hat is off and I will now put my Gordon fanboy hat back on!

[bucknersrevenge]

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

It only takes one team to offer him a max. These teams can easily get into max space territory:

Spurs (DeRozan leaves, renounce Bellinelli, Forbes)
Bulls (OPJ leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Kris Dunn)
Cleveland (Drummond leaves, renounce Thompson, Delly)
Utah (Conley leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Clarkson)
Lakers (AD leaves, renounce Howard, DMC) -- lmao

I'm too lazy to keep looking. Also allow that anyone can swing a S+T. It's easy enough to clear cap if you really want to, not sure the demand will be there, but really it only takes one offer from the Knicks or Hawks and now do you want to sign Hayward to a 4/150 deal or whatever?

DeRozan leaves and goes where? Doubt AD leaves.
Like I said, God bless him if he wants to play for the Knicks or some other trash franchise. So $176M for 4 years on a crappy franchise or $142M over 5 yrs (could be negotiated depending on our other priorities/tax situation) on a contender playing for Brad?

Yeah, I just don't think it's reasonable to think that he'll be leaving here. He's still as tight as ever with Brad. He's finally healthy and this year back to playing the way he knows he can play. He's in the perfect role for himself as he enters the last frame of his career, being one of the elders on a good team. He's still important but he's like 3rd or 4th on the hierarchy. Less wear on his body now. Fewer times matched up against a team's best, or even second-best defender. His kids are pretty settled in. A bomb would have to go off in this team for him to leave now.

[sully00]

Horford is also nearly 4 years older so I don't know why you are bringing him up. Hayward won't be offered the max, but he'll likely for sure see some offers of 120/4.

What is your point? Hayward isn't going to get a max contract then why not try and keep your 34 mil option year and do an extension with Boston makes sense right? What the actual numbers are up for negotiation. What is your comparison for a 30 year old Gordon Hayward in FA? On the positive side I would look at Draymond Green and Jrue Holiday, Nikola Vucevic these are guys either 29 or 30 years old and they get 25 mil a season.

Rising cap. Better to use % of cap than actual $$ figures when finding comps. Bigs are also usually paid less than wings and guards in today's NBA. I think a healthy Gordon is at worst 3rd most impactful/important player on a contender. So Draymond might be a good comparison.

Cap is not rising anymore. They have lost a ton of money of the China boycott and now that market is not bouncing back anytime soon. Cap is expected to be flat if not contract going forward.

[Captain_Caveman]

Anyone who listed Boston as a cap room team this time a year ago would have been scoffed at. We ended up signing a max player.

Hayward will get paid, hopefully by us.

[Bleeding Green]

Only five teams are currently projected to have cap space this summer. Only ATL, NYK, and DET have cap space to give him a starting salary higher than what he would be getting if he opted in. God bless his soul if he wishes to join any of those teams. Hawks are an okay franchise that could possibly be competitive in the next few years but nowhere near contention even with a Trae/Collins/Capela core. All other teams are projected to have no cap space at all. Good luck opening up $40M of cap space with limited teams to dump those salaries on. Even if 25 teams could use an upgrade like Hayward, financially, how will they make it work this summer? Miami is only real threat this offseason. But they're rumored to be saving their cap space for 2021.

It only takes one team to offer him a max. These teams can easily get into max space territory:

Spurs (DeRozan leaves, renounce Bellinelli, Forbes)
Bulls (OPJ leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Kris Dunn)
Cleveland (Drummond leaves, renounce Thompson, Delly)
Utah (Conley leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Clarkson)
Lakers (AD leaves, renounce Howard, DMC) -- lmao

I'm too lazy to keep looking. Also allow that anyone can swing a S+T. It's easy enough to clear cap if you really want to, not sure the demand will be there, but really it only takes one offer from the Knicks or Hawks and now do you want to sign Hayward to a 4/150 deal or whatever?

DeRozan leaves and goes where? Doubt AD leaves.
Like I said, God bless him if he wants to play for the Knicks or some other trash franchise. So $176M for 4 years on a crappy franchise or $142M over 5 yrs (could be negotiated depending on our other priorities/tax situation) on a contender playing for Brad?

I dunno how likely any specific player leaving is, but if there are 10+ teams that have to trivially do a couple things to open a max slot, it's not that unlikely that one of them will covet one of the three best available FA in that year, which Hayward presumably is.

I would hope he wouldn't give up basically 34 million dollars (plus whatever he'd make in that fifth year) to play for Brad Stevens as in your scenario. **** that's a lot of money.

[zoyathedestroya]

It only takes one team to offer him a max. These teams can easily get into max space territory:

Spurs (DeRozan leaves, renounce Bellinelli, Forbes)
Bulls (OPJ leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Kris Dunn)
Cleveland (Drummond leaves, renounce Thompson, Delly)
Utah (Conley leaves [nah, he's picking up that option], renounce Clarkson)
Lakers (AD leaves, renounce Howard, DMC) -- lmao

I'm too lazy to keep looking. Also allow that anyone can swing a S+T. It's easy enough to clear cap if you really want to, not sure the demand will be there, but really it only takes one offer from the Knicks or Hawks and now do you want to sign Hayward to a 4/150 deal or whatever?

DeRozan leaves and goes where? Doubt AD leaves.
Like I said, God bless him if he wants to play for the Knicks or some other trash franchise. So $176M for 4 years on a crappy franchise or $142M over 5 yrs (could be negotiated depending on our other priorities/tax situation) on a contender playing for Brad?

I dunno how likely any specific player leaving is, but if there are 10+ teams that have to trivially do a couple things to open a max slot, it's not that unlikely that one of them will covet one of the three best available FA in that year, which Hayward presumably is.

I would hope he wouldn't give up basically 34 million dollars (plus whatever he'd make in that fifth year) to play for Brad Stevens as in your scenario. **** that's a lot of money.

Collectively, there just isn't enough cap space in the entire league. Situation was different last offseason when there were about 10-12 max slots available apart from other teams having a bit of cap space. Players did musical chairs so teams like Philly and Boston suddenly had space to sign max/near-max players. The likelihood of that happening is lower this offseason. I guess DeRozan or some other player who plays for a potential contender can choose to go to New York or Charlotte and a max slot could open up for that team. Maybe I'm more optimistic than most thinking money isn't the only factor in this, but I just don't see him playing on a losing franchise this late in his career. Cs could also close that gap a bit with a better offer depending on their tax situation. I just don't know what the magic number is. But opt-in and extend seems ideal for both parties.

[Bleeding Green]

I'm an eternal optimist so I hope every athlete takes as much money as he can in his short career.

[Feed Your Head]

Less than zero chance Gordon gets less than 20 a year, and that's being conservative.

I think he has awesome chemistry with Smart/Kemba/Tatum. Zoya and a few posters have pointed out that Jaylen doesn't ever pass to Hayward, i do think there's something to it, but i don't think it's intentional on Jaylens part. I think Hayward is playing borderline perfect ball offensively, him and Tatum running PnR with each other could be deadly in the playoffs.

[MagicBagley18]

Read on Twitter

So, he can take Dragic's salary slot in Miami, stick with us or...just ease into low pressure semi-retirement on a crappy team.

Not saying he’s interested at all or they are now but Charlotte did go after him several years ago or I believe they wanted him. Never underestimate a poorly ran team throwing the max at him. Not that he would go

[MagicBagley18]

Besides Charlotte like mentioned there’s Miami. I’m not sure when Milwaukee can offer the super max or when he’ll sign it but when giannis accepts the supermax (I think he will no matter what right now) then Miami can pivot to Hayward if they want.

I’m not sure of the the timeline exactly but I’d imagine it has to be around June July for giannis’s extension offer and Miami will wait for giannis if there’s any chance and rightfully so.

[zoyathedestroya]

Less than zero chance Gordon gets less than 20 a year, and that's being conservative.

I think he has awesome chemistry with Smart/Kemba/Tatum. Zoya and a few posters have pointed out that Jaylen doesn't ever pass to Hayward, i do think there's something to it, but i don't think it's intentional on Jaylens part. I think Hayward is playing borderline perfect ball offensively, him and Tatum running PnR with each other could be deadly in the playoffs.

Cs can avoid the tax next season (to avoid paying repeater tax in 2022) even if Hayward opts in and even with Jaylen's extension kicking in. I do think Zarren and co. factored in the possibility of Hayward opting in into the equation and got as high as they could go with Jaylen but still avoid the tax. If Hayward leaves for nothing, then tax is a non-issue lol.

Rough estimation: C's can retain core 5, go as high as 30M per year for 4 years with Hayward's extension (after opt-in), and be within 12M over tax line in 2022 (Tatum maxed out, MLE on a big, only own rookies signed, Williams twins, Edwards, Langford, vet min signings). Not bad.

Smart and Kemba (if he opts out) comes off the books in 2022-23.

I'm not saying this is the direction they should/would go, but from a financial standpoint, it's not that taxing.

[Feed Your Head]

Less than zero chance Gordon gets less than 20 a year, and that's being conservative.

I think he has awesome chemistry with Smart/Kemba/Tatum. Zoya and a few posters have pointed out that Jaylen doesn't ever pass to Hayward, i do think there's something to it, but i don't think it's intentional on Jaylens part. I think Hayward is playing borderline perfect ball offensively, him and Tatum running PnR with each other could be deadly in the playoffs.

Cs can avoid the tax next season (to avoid paying repeater tax in 2022) even if Hayward opts in and even with Jaylen's extension kicking in. I do think Zarren and co. factored in the possibility of Hayward opting in into the equation and got as high as they could go with Jaylen but still avoid the tax. If Hayward leaves for nothing, then tax is a non-issue lol.

Rough estimation: C's can retain core 5, go as high as 30M per year for 4 years with Hayward's extension (after opt-in), and be within 12M over tax line in 2022 (Tatum maxed out, MLE on a big, only own rookies signed, Williams twins, Edwards, Langford, vet min signings). Not bad.

Smart and Kemba (if he opts out) comes off the books in 2022-23.

I'm not saying this is the direction they should/would go, but from a financial standpoint, it's not that taxing.

I haven't looked into it, but SWC brought up a good point the other night, Tatum has a real chance to be all nba next year, would him being eligible for the early supermax throw a wrench into it?

[zoyathedestroya]

Less than zero chance Gordon gets less than 20 a year, and that's being conservative.

I think he has awesome chemistry with Smart/Kemba/Tatum. Zoya and a few posters have pointed out that Jaylen doesn't ever pass to Hayward, i do think there's something to it, but i don't think it's intentional on Jaylens part. I think Hayward is playing borderline perfect ball offensively, him and Tatum running PnR with each other could be deadly in the playoffs.

Cs can avoid the tax next season (to avoid paying repeater tax in 2022) even if Hayward opts in and even with Jaylen's extension kicking in. I do think Zarren and co. factored in the possibility of Hayward opting in into the equation and got as high as they could go with Jaylen but still avoid the tax. If Hayward leaves for nothing, then tax is a non-issue lol.

Rough estimation: C's can retain core 5, go as high as 30M per year for 4 years with Hayward's extension (after opt-in), and be within 12M over tax line in 2022 (Tatum maxed out, MLE on a big, only own rookies signed, Williams twins, Edwards, Langford, vet min signings). Not bad.

Smart and Kemba (if he opts out) comes off the books in 2022-23.

I'm not saying this is the direction they should/would go, but from a financial standpoint, it's not that taxing.

I haven't looked into it, but SWC brought up a good point the other night, Tatum has a real chance to be all nba next year, would him being eligible for the early supermax throw a wrench into it?

I thought only players with at least eight years of service (or is it 7) are eligible for supermax. Maybe it's called differently for players coming off a rookie contract. No idea.

[Captain_Caveman]

DeRozan leaves and goes where? Doubt AD leaves.
Like I said, God bless him if he wants to play for the Knicks or some other trash franchise. So $176M for 4 years on a crappy franchise or $142M over 5 yrs (could be negotiated depending on our other priorities/tax situation) on a contender playing for Brad?

I dunno how likely any specific player leaving is, but if there are 10+ teams that have to trivially do a couple things to open a max slot, it's not that unlikely that one of them will covet one of the three best available FA in that year, which Hayward presumably is.

I would hope he wouldn't give up basically 34 million dollars (plus whatever he'd make in that fifth year) to play for Brad Stevens as in your scenario. **** that's a lot of money.

Collectively, there just isn't enough cap space in the entire league. Situation was different last offseason when there were about 10-12 max slots available apart from other teams having a bit of cap space. Players did musical chairs so teams like Philly and Boston suddenly had space to sign max/near-max players. The likelihood of that happening is lower this offseason. I guess DeRozan or some other player who plays for a potential contender can choose to go to New York or Charlotte and a max slot could open up for that team. Maybe I'm more optimistic than most thinking money isn't the only factor in this, but I just don't see him playing on a losing franchise this late in his career. Cs could also close that gap a bit with a better offer depending on their tax situation. I just don't know what the magic number is. But opt-in and extend seems ideal for both parties.

Im in at 3/90m guaranteed.

[Feed Your Head]

Cs can avoid the tax next season (to avoid paying repeater tax in 2022) even if Hayward opts in and even with Jaylen's extension kicking in. I do think Zarren and co. factored in the possibility of Hayward opting in into the equation and got as high as they could go with Jaylen but still avoid the tax. If Hayward leaves for nothing, then tax is a non-issue lol.

Rough estimation: C's can retain core 5, go as high as 30M per year for 4 years with Hayward's extension (after opt-in), and be within 12M over tax line in 2022 (Tatum maxed out, MLE on a big, only own rookies signed, Williams twins, Edwards, Langford, vet min signings). Not bad.

Smart and Kemba (if he opts out) comes off the books in 2022-23.

I'm not saying this is the direction they should/would go, but from a financial standpoint, it's not that taxing.

I haven't looked into it, but SWC brought up a good point the other night, Tatum has a real chance to be all nba next year, would him being eligible for the early supermax throw a wrench into it?

I thought only players with at least eight years of service (or is it 7) are eligible for supermax. Maybe it's called differently for players coming off a rookie contract. No idea.

I know about as much about the cap as Smart knows about playing halfassed.