Celtics General Offseason (incl. Trade) Thread, 2019

[itrsteve]

We really have bo chance of getting better unless we hit in the draft. Like a Leonard or giannis kind of hit

Those draft hits don’t happen overnight my dude, don’t forget that.

[The Corey's]

We really have bo chance of getting better unless we hit in the draft. Like a Leonard or giannis kind of hit

Those draft hits don’t happen overnight my dude, don’t forget that.

Oh I'm aware I'm just pointing out are cap space us gone for a long long time and we can only improve through trade and drafting

[itrsteve]

We really have bo chance of getting better unless we hit in the draft. Like a Leonard or giannis kind of hit

Those draft hits don’t happen overnight my dude, don’t forget that.

Oh I'm aware I'm just pointing out are cap space us gone for a long long time and we can only improve through trade and drafting

Fair enough, but let me ask you this: When you look at young guys like Tatum & Brown, in addition to Hayward who has shown flashes of his former self, do you believe they hit their ceiling based on what you saw this past season?

I’m sorry, there’s so much room to grow with all three and I’m not giving up on any of them. Look at tonight, injuries to GSW aside, look at the crew Toronto had, it was all nobody’s until they made themselves somebody, no top draft picks, nothing overnight... it can be done with the right level of buy-in and effort with what we have right now.

[The Corey's]

Those draft hits don’t happen overnight my dude, don’t forget that.

Oh I'm aware I'm just pointing out are cap space us gone for a long long time and we can only improve through trade and drafting

Fair enough, but let me ask you this: When you look at young guys like Tatum & Brown, in addition to Hayward who has shown flashes of his former self, do you believe they hit their ceiling based on what you saw this past season?

I’m sorry, there’s so much room to grow with all three and I’m not giving up on any of them. Look at tonight, injuries to GSW aside, look at the crew Toronto had, it was all nobody’s until they made themselves somebody, no top draft picks, nothing overnight... it can be done with the right level of buy-in and effort with what we have right now.

Only with Tatum. brown I dont think is anything other than a role player and Hayward is just gonna be a what could of been story for the celtics. I remember thinking at one point last year I haven't seen this guy hit a 3 in over a month.

[djFan71]

What young bigs could we target via trade? In order of possibility, all pretty low:

Bam for 20, 22 & Williams? (would need to play games with signing one, not the other for salary). 14 & Williams?
Isaac? Carter Jr? Either would probably require Jaylen, which I'm not sure I do.
Bagley? Probably would require Tatum? Not sure I do that either.
JJJ no way. No how.

Any others? Probably more likely we have to roll the dice in the draft ourselves. Anyone got anything else?

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm interested I guess to see Rozier, Brown, Hayward as starters next season just from the standpoint of, this is a trio that often played together off the bench. This was a group that liked to play fast when they played. They were often sloppy but hopefully on a team where they could start and won't have to look over their shoulder maybe there's more consistency. I'm probably reaching.

[itrsteve]

Oh I'm aware I'm just pointing out are cap space us gone for a long long time and we can only improve through trade and drafting

Fair enough, but let me ask you this: When you look at young guys like Tatum & Brown, in addition to Hayward who has shown flashes of his former self, do you believe they hit their ceiling based on what you saw this past season?

I’m sorry, there’s so much room to grow with all three and I’m not giving up on any of them. Look at tonight, injuries to GSW aside, look at the crew Toronto had, it was all nobody’s until they made themselves somebody, no top draft picks, nothing overnight... it can be done with the right level of buy-in and effort with what we have right now.

Only with Tatum. brown I dont think is anything other than a role player and Hayward is just gonna be a what could of been story for the celtics. I remember thinking at one point last year I haven't seen this guy hit a 3 in over a month.

Sorry that you gave up on everybody. Best of luck getting the entire roster gutted for an injury-proned guy who hasn’t accomplished squat.

[djFan71]

I'm interested I guess to see Rozier, Brown, Hayward as starters next season just from the standpoint of, this is a trio that often played together off the bench. This was a group that liked to play fast when they played. They were often sloppy but hopefully on a team where they could start and won't have to look over their shoulder maybe there's more consistency. I'm probably reaching.

In the no trade world, I think Hayward is 6th man:

Terry/Brown/Tatum/Horford/Baynes
Smart/Hayward/etc

Any trades, obviously things change quite a bit.

[bucknersrevenge]

I'm interested I guess to see Rozier, Brown, Hayward as starters next season just from the standpoint of, this is a trio that often played together off the bench. This was a group that liked to play fast when they played. They were often sloppy but hopefully on a team where they could start and won't have to look over their shoulder maybe there's more consistency. I'm probably reaching.

In the no trade world, I think Hayward is 6th man:

Terry/Brown/Tatum/Horford/Baynes
Smart/Hayward/etc

Any trades, obviously things change quite a bit.

Yeah my commentary was definitely based on the idea that a trade happens. I was looking back at some old IT tape and some old Steez tape. What made them both so special in this offense was the pace they played at which is the same pace Rozier generally likes to play at. We lost that pace far too often last year. We walked the ball up an awful lot. I think playing faster could even help Hayward recover some of what he once was. He was thinking out there way too much instead of just playing. Some of that was of course the injury but you never saw him play instinctive ball consistently. Picking up the pace may possibly speed up the learning curve for him. I'm not sure but I think I've just hit the acceptance stage of Terry Rozier as a starting Guard for this team next year. I hate myself now.

[djFan71]

I'm interested I guess to see Rozier, Brown, Hayward as starters next season just from the standpoint of, this is a trio that often played together off the bench. This was a group that liked to play fast when they played. They were often sloppy but hopefully on a team where they could start and won't have to look over their shoulder maybe there's more consistency. I'm probably reaching.

In the no trade world, I think Hayward is 6th man:

Terry/Brown/Tatum/Horford/Baynes
Smart/Hayward/etc

Any trades, obviously things change quite a bit.

Yeah my commentary was definitely based on the idea that a trade happens. I was looking back at some old IT tape and some old Steez tape. What made them both so special in this offense was the pace they played at which is the same pace Rozier generally likes to play at. We lost that pace far too often last year. We walked the ball up an awful lot. I think playing faster could even help Hayward recover some of what he once was. He was thinking out there way too much instead of just playing. Some of that was of course the injury but you never saw him play instinctive ball consistently. Picking up the pace may possibly speed up the learning curve for him. I'm not sure but I think I've just hit the acceptance stage of Terry Rozier as a starting Guard for this team next year. I hate myself now.

Welcome to the dark side! To me, Terry isn't nearly as bad as he was this year, and also not as good as he thinks he is. To me, he's bottom half of the starting PGs in the league - 15-25 range. That's still pretty good. Your point about pace is spot on. Kyrie, like Rondo before him, was so inconsistent about pushing the ball. Rozier just gets us into the offense quicker. Which when you have guys contradictorily both passing up open shots and iso'ing too much, is important.

Trade wise, just AD for Tatum/Smart, you probably are looking at Rozier and Hayward starting together. Any other moves, and I think we're back to one off the bench. But, obviously, quite fluid.

[bucknersrevenge]

In the no trade world, I think Hayward is 6th man:

Terry/Brown/Tatum/Horford/Baynes
Smart/Hayward/etc

Any trades, obviously things change quite a bit.

Yeah my commentary was definitely based on the idea that a trade happens. I was looking back at some old IT tape and some old Steez tape. What made them both so special in this offense was the pace they played at which is the same pace Rozier generally likes to play at. We lost that pace far too often last year. We walked the ball up an awful lot. I think playing faster could even help Hayward recover some of what he once was. He was thinking out there way too much instead of just playing. Some of that was of course the injury but you never saw him play instinctive ball consistently. Picking up the pace may possibly speed up the learning curve for him. I'm not sure but I think I've just hit the acceptance stage of Terry Rozier as a starting Guard for this team next year. I hate myself now.

Welcome to the dark side! To me, Terry isn't nearly as bad as he was this year, and also not as good as he thinks he is. To me, he's bottom half of the starting PGs in the league - 15-25 range. That's still pretty good. Your point about pace is spot on. Kyrie, like Rondo before him, was so inconsistent about pushing the ball. Rozier just gets us into the offense quicker. Which when you have guys contradictorily both passing up open shots and iso'ing too much, is important.

Trade wise, just AD for Tatum/Smart, you probably are looking at Rozier and Hayward starting together. Any other moves, and I think we're back to one off the bench. But, obviously, quite fluid.

I think I just like that trio (Rozzay, JB, and Gordo) playing together with Al and AD. And now that the blood is in the water out there in thr Bay area, all the more reason to strike now and get this deal done. Re-sign Mook. Draft THT with one of our picks. Give Semi some minutes. Use our mini-MLE on a free agent to add depth and I like that mix actually. I thought we had too many chefs last year. Take away Kyrie, Tatum, and even Marcus (unfortunately) and there are fewer ballstopper/iso guys. Most everyone else is gonna shoot off the catch, drive the closeout, or move the ball. This could still work out for us. AND...I think Davis might even enjoy himself.

[djFan71]

Yeah my commentary was definitely based on the idea that a trade happens. I was looking back at some old IT tape and some old Steez tape. What made them both so special in this offense was the pace they played at which is the same pace Rozier generally likes to play at. We lost that pace far too often last year. We walked the ball up an awful lot. I think playing faster could even help Hayward recover some of what he once was. He was thinking out there way too much instead of just playing. Some of that was of course the injury but you never saw him play instinctive ball consistently. Picking up the pace may possibly speed up the learning curve for him. I'm not sure but I think I've just hit the acceptance stage of Terry Rozier as a starting Guard for this team next year. I hate myself now.

Welcome to the dark side! To me, Terry isn't nearly as bad as he was this year, and also not as good as he thinks he is. To me, he's bottom half of the starting PGs in the league - 15-25 range. That's still pretty good. Your point about pace is spot on. Kyrie, like Rondo before him, was so inconsistent about pushing the ball. Rozier just gets us into the offense quicker. Which when you have guys contradictorily both passing up open shots and iso'ing too much, is important.

Trade wise, just AD for Tatum/Smart, you probably are looking at Rozier and Hayward starting together. Any other moves, and I think we're back to one off the bench. But, obviously, quite fluid.

I think I just like that trio (Rozzay, JB, and Gordo) playing together with Al and AD. And now that the blood is in the water out there in thr Bay area, all the more reason to strike now and get this deal done. Re-sign Mook. Draft THT with one of our picks. Give Semi some minutes. Use our mini-MLE on a free agent to add depth and I like that mix actually. I thought we had too many chefs last year. Take away Kyrie, Tatum, and even Marcus (unfortunately) and there are fewer ballstopper/iso guys. Most everyone else is gonna shoot off the catch, drive the closeout, or move the ball. This could still work out for us. AND...I think Davis might even enjoy himself.

I like it too, just not sure why... It's not like the bench rocked it this year. I agree on the rest of the roster pieces. If you get AD, you resign Terry & Mook if you can. Then get whatever out of an S&T with Kyrie if possible. Then MLE/room exceptions on a point like Corey Joesph, a big like Ed Davis, etc.

I would actually token start Baynes and have Horford anchor the bench. Save wear & tear on AD, load manage Al, keep one of AD\Al on the floor always for the D (and O really).

Assuming we have to send 14 and keep 20/22, I'm looking at Claxton for crazy upside, and sliders from Clarke, Washington, Little, Goga, NAW, Goga, Keldon, Hayes, Cam Johnson, Grant Williams, Jerome, Windler, Thybulle, etc. Just don't love the girth of THT at such a young age. I'll take him at 51, though, and fully willing to jump on the bandwagon if we take him at 20 or 22.

[zoyathedestroya]

Can this compete against the Bucks and Raptors?

Rozier / Brown / Hayward / Horford / Davis
Rondo / Matthews / Ojeleye / Morris / Baynes

Midseason trade to upgrade as needed.

Are we a tax team next season? It would be nice to have both the non-taxpayer MLE ($9.24) and the BAE ($3.619) for FAs. TPE and a couple of players via Kyrie S&T would be great too, thanks.

[FlatearthZorro]

Can this compete against the Bucks and Raptors?

Rozier / Brown / Hayward / Horford / Davis
Rondo / Matthews / Ojeleye / Morris / Baynes

Midseason trade to upgrade as needed.

Are we a tax team next season? It would be nice to have both the non-taxpayer MLE ($9.24) and the BAE ($3.619) for FAs. TPE and a couple of players via Kyrie S&T would be great too, thanks.

Rozier should in no way shape or form be a starter if Davis is on the team. Rondo starts, and bring in another PG, ai really don't know who. The non tax payer MLE is a possibility if Horfie reworks his deal, I dunno if it's possible with Morris and Rozier coming back. Probably not.

[RickyDizzle]

Rozier resigned for 14.5 million for Dragic (1 year at 19.6), if we trade for AD and lose Kyrie? Miami saves some money and gets younger... Would depend on what they thought of Terry though.

Would also give a big expiring to pair with assets in a deadline deal.

[Tiny ball]

Golden State had no one. They developed their stars then got Durant. If the Celtics can't draft and develop they need new staff. It is not normally the star players that really send teams to their first + championships. It is roll or a roll player that steps up. Looking back MJ just played his normal great games it was Paxton that stepped up. The idea is to get to the finals and find away to win. The great players on both the finals team have weaknesses. If you can get there you punch what is left of them in the noise and take it. Those Celtics youngens were just few minutes away No reason with right pieces around them they can't get back next year.imho

Listen when you start telling me it’s Paxson that stepped up and role players are the reason teams go to champions I just stop engaging in conversation- the only reason role players are in that moment to have a chance to be great is because of the superstar... Go Celtics!

Did you watch the games? I did. It was Paxton that stepped up.

Did you watch this championship final game. Again it was roll player that stepped up got 12 points in fourth quarter.
"Fred VanVleet scored a playoff career-high 22 points, including 12 points in the fourth quarter in Game 6." "One stat stood out from the rest as the Raptors brought home Canada's first major championship since 1993.

The stat
53 percent: Fred VanVleet's 3-point percentage over the Raptors' last nine playoff games and since his son, Fred Jr. was born.

The context
That's 30 makes on 57 attempts, a remarkable turnaround for the undrafted VanVleet." NBA.com

They would not have won this championship without this guy that every team in the NBA passed on. Sure it helps to have a all star or two but VanVleet is the champion. They knocked out his tooth gave him stitches and bruises but they could not stop him from beating them.

[Kalela]

What young bigs could we target via trade? In order of possibility, all pretty low:

Bam for 20, 22 & Williams? (would need to play games with signing one, not the other for salary). 14 & Williams?
Isaac? Carter Jr? Either would probably require Jaylen, which I'm not sure I do.
Bagley? Probably would require Tatum? Not sure I do that either.
JJJ no way. No how.

Any others? Probably more likely we have to roll the dice in the draft ourselves. Anyone got anything else?

He is probably not considered a good player and definitely not at the level of the guys above but I really like Noah Vonleh and hope the Cetics get him. Kid has been improving both offensively and defensively under the radar for the last two years. His defense is currently far ahead of his offense but I can see him being a decent starting level big for some team in the near future. Oh and he is good rebound with a good motor.

[MagicBagley18]

Listen when you start telling me it’s Paxson that stepped up and role players are the reason teams go to champions I just stop engaging in conversation- the only reason role players are in that moment to have a chance to be great is because of the superstar... Go Celtics!

Did you watch the games? I did. It was Paxton that stepped up.

Did you watch this championship final game. Again it was roll player that stepped up got 12 points in fourth quarter.
"Fred VanVleet scored a playoff career-high 22 points, including 12 points in the fourth quarter in Game 6." "One stat stood out from the rest as the Raptors brought home Canada's first major championship since 1993.

The stat
53 percent: Fred VanVleet's 3-point percentage over the Raptors' last nine playoff games and since his son, Fred Jr. was born.

The context
That's 30 makes on 57 attempts, a remarkable turnaround for the undrafted VanVleet." NBA.com

They would not have won this championship without this guy that every team in the NBA passed on. Sure it helps to have a all star or two but VanVleet is the champion. They knocked out his tooth gave him stitches and bruises but they could not stop him from beating them.

Sound logic and I feel smarter having been schooled today by you and thankful for finding this gem in that post you wrote which was simply poetic ;

“sure it helps to have an all star or two”.

This is my lightbulb moment and I’ll never look at the sport the same way again. Your my huckleberry.

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

Shiiieeet... tough decision to keep the band together.

[itrsteve]

Read on Twitter

Shiiieeet... tough decision to keep the band together.

Net revenue (pre-tax) of $401m

Total bill $353m

Yikes.