Rondo Trade Rumors & Ideas (update pg 8)

[Celts17Pride]

If Ainge has any visions of any free agent of substance signing with the Celtics then Rondo has to be part of the Celtics or no free agents are coming. Plain and simple. This plus the fact Rondo is a young (27 years old) all-star at a very tough position PG is why I see Rondo going nowhere soon.

[Captain_Caveman]

I cannot tell you how many conversations i've had regarding player value. Inflating stats due to tempo is consistently one of the main topics that comes up. Scouts find it more difficult to guage value due to less "quality film" on players - I was just having this exact conversation about Evan Turner and his "breakout" year.

Front offices are much more savvy than they were 10 years ago. Analytics have changed the system. Nobody's falling for empty numbers anymore, they're looking for situational production in measurable need areas. The best way to valuate assets in the modern era is to put them into roles they can excel at and sell them on the merits of their potential from there.

Yeah, hadn't read the rest of the thread. I agree with your earlier statements that uptempo can be defined both by transition offense and tempo. The idea that there will be selective transition makes sense, but this will still be a change for a team that took the air out of the ball for 6-7 years. We have Rondo and a few other guys who would be underutilized without a transition emphasis, including a primary scorer who often drifts through games when not engaged (describes Rondo as well). I think running can help teams get going, particularly young ones, and that it then carries over to half court play as well.

It's all about the half court game, this is the NBA! You want these dudes learning how to move the ball and themselves with cuts, screens, pin downs, entry passes, skip passes, give and go, fades, reads, etc. That's the type of player Ainge likes. Guys who can play the full game. So those types will be able to run, but he's not drafting based on an ability to play in transition which is what all the teams run by Kidd, Nash, etc. were about.

What you want to be is a balanced team like the Jazz of the nineties. Sure they could run, but they could REALLY execute in the half court. You'd need more dominant wing play than the Jazz had to get it done at a championship level. Celtics should be able to add a couple of those types in the draft or through Ainge's brilliance in trades. You could also see Ainge build a poor man's Timmy and DRob if he ends up with that #1 pick and drafts EMBIID.

I don't care about stats or entertainment. I want smart, disciplined players who put defense first and utilize transition as a weapon but not as it's only speed.

I want the next team to play like that. In the meantime, I hope Ainge trades most of these fools for guys who can actually succeed as a defensive/halfcourt-oriented team.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

You know what is funny about this thread is that when Rondo was actually on the floor and playing every day I was hardly alone on this island of calling him a sub-star player. I mean the people here that typically make sense like Humblebum are with me and Sully who is usually on point when he isn't talking to jsimon or calling Larry Bird a diva is with me but most of the rest of you have lost it. I'm saying things like "Rajon Rondo isn't a scorer in the NBA" and SamIAm a veteran Celtics fan is stuck watching youtube of a first round series against against the Bulls and trying to convince me that Rondo is a great player because he led the 2-seed Celtics to a 7-game first round series win over the 7-seeded Bulls. BTW - the lasting memory of that series for me is Ray Allen's 50 pointer that was maybe the highest degree of difficulty 50+ we will ever see. Just an absurd performance by a guy with an absolutely elite skill.

But back to Rondo - get real fellas. Just wait until Rondo is back on the court and you see who he really is. Oh wait - my bad, he is back and I have actual data. The Celtics are 0-6 with Rondo in the lineup and he is shooting not sub-50% not sub-40%, but sub-30% from the field! No joke. Even a guy like Slar who never agrees with me but always brings a logical argument to the table was telling me that he thought the Celts would play .500 basketball with Rondo in the lineup. With 34 games left the Celtics would have to go 20-14 for the rest of the year to have that prediction be a reality. Not even arambone thinks this team is money enough to play play .588 ball.

Face it fellas he isn't who you think he is. He might one day have another 10 assist game that you can get excited about but he isn't a #1 on a good team.

One other just observation about the NBA tonight. Did you notice the Thunder were blowing the Nets out? Did you guys know that Durant had scored 30+ points in 12 straight games and that he was approaching records for such a streak? Guess what happened tonight? The Thunder didn't play him in the 4th because the team and the player are of the opinion that the win is all that matters.

Rondo on the other hand asked back into a blowout LOSS to continue his 10+ assist streak. That's the difference between a winner and a stat monger.

Sounds like you think Rondo is at 100%. Which is super weird.

[ryaningf]

FWIW:

“There were times yesterday that I thought, man, that looked different than the last five or six games. And – I just got done with a film session with him – especially in transition,” Stevens said. “His push yesterday in the first quarter, to the point where he had to be taken out. He was tired because he was really pushing the ball in transition. And that’s good for our team. It’s something we’ve been emphasizing, especially since he’s been back.”

There you go, they're emphasizing transition, especially since Rondo's been back. And Brad says it's "good for our team."

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/02/boston_celtics_practice_notes_7.html

If Rondo can maintain health the rest of the way, it's going to make a sorry season pretty exciting.

As for Humble's comment earlier about his ideal defensive-minded team that executes in the half court: if that's your aesthetic ideal, good for you, chase them butterflies. But I'm a child of the 80s and if we could put together an offensive juggernaut with enough defensive aptitude to get stops in the 4th quarter then sign me the f up. If you build around Rondo and his brilliance in transition, then that's your endgame--having enough defense to get stops during winning time.

[Slartibartfast]

FWIW:

“There were times yesterday that I thought, man, that looked different than the last five or six games. And – I just got done with a film session with him – especially in transition,” Stevens said. “His push yesterday in the first quarter, to the point where he had to be taken out. He was tired because he was really pushing the ball in transition. And that’s good for our team. It’s something we’ve been emphasizing, especially since he’s been back.”

There you go, they're emphasizing transition, especially since Rondo's been back. And Brad says it's "good for our team."

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2014/02/boston_celtics_practice_notes_7.html

If Rondo can maintain health the rest of the way, it's going to make a sorry season pretty exciting.

As for Humble's comment earlier about his ideal defensive-minded team that executes in the half court: if that's your aesthetic ideal, good for you, chase them butterflies. But I'm a child of the 80s and if we could put together an offensive juggernaut with enough defensive aptitude to get stops in the 4th quarter then sign me the f up. If you build around Rondo and his brilliance in transition, then that's your endgame--having enough defense to get stops during winning time.

I think the most realistic route with Rondo is an athletic, lock-down defensive team that generates a lot of turnovers, owns the defensive boards and uses those attributes to get out in transition.

I just don't think our current big men are suited to the task.

[ryaningf]

I think the most realistic route with Rondo is an athletic, lock-down defensive team that generates a lot of turnovers, owns the defensive boards and uses those attributes to get out in transition.

I just don't think our current big men are suited to the task.

That sounds most realistic.

Let's say we can get Asik for Hump or other non-essential assets. Would that be enough or do we need another long guy who can defend out to the 3 point line against stretch 4s (a job I'd actually love to give to Gerald and see what he can do with it)?

[sully00]

I am all for playing defense but half court offense sucks. It really was too bad that Rick Pitino was such a bad GM and a total douche bag because his concept of how to play ball is what it is all about.

[Slartibartfast]

I think the most realistic route with Rondo is an athletic, lock-down defensive team that generates a lot of turnovers, owns the defensive boards and uses those attributes to get out in transition.

I just don't think our current big men are suited to the task.

That sounds most realistic.

Let's say we can get Asik for Hump or other non-essential assets. Would that be enough or do we need another long guy who can defend out to the 3 point line against stretch 4s (a job I'd actually love to give to Gerald and see what he can do with it)?

Yeah, I want Josh Smith or a Josh Smith type for that job. I know sully disagrees, but I don't think you can push in transition all that consistently without a gazelle at one of your big positions.

You can afford one slow board hog to vacuum the glass, but the easiest way to get a transition advantage is to have that speedy big with skills in the open floor. Phoenix had so many - Diaw and Marion were fantastic at it, and Amare was pretty good too. Jason Kidd had Kenyon Martin.

[ryaningf]

I think the most realistic route with Rondo is an athletic, lock-down defensive team that generates a lot of turnovers, owns the defensive boards and uses those attributes to get out in transition.

I just don't think our current big men are suited to the task.

That sounds most realistic.

Let's say we can get Asik for Hump or other non-essential assets. Would that be enough or do we need another long guy who can defend out to the 3 point line against stretch 4s (a job I'd actually love to give to Gerald and see what he can do with it)?

Yeah, I want Josh Smith or a Josh Smith type for that job. I know sully disagrees, but I don't think you can push in transition all that consistently without a gazelle at one of your big positions.

You can afford one slow board hog to vacuum the glass, but the easiest way to get a transition advantage is to have that speedy big with skills in the open floor. Phoenix had so many - Diaw and Marion were fantastic at it, and Amare was pretty good too. Jason Kidd had Kenyon Martin.

You make good points.

The power of deduction says Smith is available--bad fit, big money, team desperate to make playoffs. Personally, I'd trade Bass, Green, and 2015 first rounder for Smith. Ideally you do that trade at draft time, so Smith doesn't accidentally come here and start the house on fire and lead us to the playoffs. But part of Detroit's willingness to entertain that deal would be the allure of trade rebalancing the team and putting everyone in positions where they succeed--so they'd want to do it before the trade deadline. In the end I'd bite the bullet and risk the draft position because I really do think an uptempo team led by Rondo with Smith, Sully, and Bradley is the start of something special (only a high usage SF away from legit contention--something the TPE or draft picks might be able to acquire in the summer).

The only downside of Smith is that it puts Sully at Center fulltime, which makes us vulnerable to Indiana and vulnerable in general to any team with legit center size. The allure of Asik is that he would balance the front court situation and put our best young talent back into his natural position. Asik's deal is also much less of a drag going forward, giving Danny some flexibility to change the plan on the fly if needed. Trading for Smith has much less wiggle room.

[soxfan2003]

I am all for playing defense but half court offense sucks. It really was too bad that Rick Pitino was such a bad GM and a total douche bag because his concept of how to play ball is what it is all about.

I sort of disagree since Pitino's concept at least that he utilized with the Celtics burns out players and just asks way too much out of them for an 82 game season. It leads to teams overachieving in the regular season if they don't turn off their coach but their is no advantage whatsoever with his style in the post season in a 7 game series.

Teams come prepared for it and they crank up their intensity themselves.

While there is no perfect system, I think Doc Rivers and TT showed how to play defense and SA Spurs have shown how to have a good offense.

[gocelts]

I dont trade rondo for anything but at top 10 draft pick in 2014 or a proven Allstar (like Rondo is) Period.

A collection of table-scraps for our best player will set us back another year after next....if the right offer is there, we take it...but for a collection of late round junk ( don't we have like NINE first rounders now?!?!) and overrated unproven prospects is not worth it to us now. We need Rondo.

[bruno sundov]

Talking about signing FA's. If we don't take on anymore salary in trades we will have $45 million committed to next year. How much are we truly under the cap? As in can we go out and sign a max guy like LBJ?

[greenpierce]

Just spitballing but, I wonder if there's some sort of 3 way between Boston, Cleveland, and Sactown that would work if Ainge really wanted to move Rondo to get younger.

Boston gets, Irving, J Thompson, and Dellavadova (To make money work)
Cleveland gets, Thomas, McLemore and Bogans
Sactown, gets Rondo

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mb5z8pj

Boston gets its All-star return for Rondo. Cleveland gets a reset with young pieces. Sactown gets Rondo.

[KGboss]

good idea greenpierce.

[calamity]

CLE says no to that easily though. As under performing as Irving has been this year, they could do much better than that for value for him. They have no reason to trade him as well as he holds virtually no leverage.

[greenpierce]

CLE says no to that easily though. As under performing as Irving has been this year, they could do much better than that for value for him. They have no reason to trade him as well as he holds virtually no leverage.

That point on leverage is true. Heard Woj on the radio early this Friday morning saying the same thing about Irving. Unless he refuses to take the Max extension, in which he gives up a lot of money, Irving really doesn't hold any leverage. So, that would be the precursor to any Irving trade. He literally would have to say no to a Max extension; then the floodgates could open.

As for value, it's subjective on Irving leaving. If Irving really has promised to leave, is Thomas and McLemore a bad starting point? Bogans gives cap relief immediately after the season, along with Deng, who clearly leaves.

[15th overall]

More Rondo to NY talk from Sam Amick

With all due respect to Anthony's wife, La La Anthony, her recent proclamation that her husband was "definitely" going to re-sign in New York wasn't enough to allay the Knicks' concerns. They know full well that making roster improvements sooner rather than later would increase their chances of Anthony re-signing, meaning the Knicks are known to be on the lookout for a blockbuster-type deal and still are hoping against hope that it involves Boston Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo.

Despite the consistent claims from Celtics general manager Danny Ainge that Rondo isn't available, the Knicks have a strong belief that he can be had if – in a nod to another show – the price is right. They can offer the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire (one season remaining after this one, at $23.4 million) while taking future money back (such as Gerald Wallace and/or Jeff Green) and helping Ainge clear the way for the summer of 2015 that is known to be a priority of his. (That summer is a major priority for the Knicks, too, but it appears the Rondo scenario is one of the few, if not the only, where they'd consider the impact of his addition great enough to justify taking on some money from that point on.) The Knicks can include Raymond Felton (a much cheaper point guard option) or Iman Shumpert (rookie contract) and even discuss beloved rookie Tim Hardaway Jr.

[165bows]

These attempts by the Knicks to create Rondo rumors are getting truly pathetic.

Despite the consistent claims from Celtics general manager Danny Ainge that Rondo isn't available, the Knicks have a strong belief that he can be had if – in a nod to another show – the price is right. They can offer the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire (one season remaining after this one, at $23.4 million) while taking future money back (such as Gerald Wallace and/or Jeff Green) and helping Ainge clear the way for the summer of 2015 that is known to be a priority of his. USA Today Sports

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.gZGsGQPk.dpuf

Rondo and Green for Stoudamire, anybody???

[cloverleaf]

These attempts by the Knicks to create Rondo rumors are getting truly pathetic.

Despite the consistent claims from Celtics general manager Danny Ainge that Rondo isn't available, the Knicks have a strong belief that he can be had if – in a nod to another show – the price is right. They can offer the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire (one season remaining after this one, at $23.4 million) while taking future money back (such as Gerald Wallace and/or Jeff Green) and helping Ainge clear the way for the summer of 2015 that is known to be a priority of his. USA Today Sports

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.gZGsGQPk.dpuf

Rondo and Green for Stoudamire, anybody???

No!!! That's as ridiculously bad as any trade suggestion out there.

[canman1971]

People should be fired for even suggesting the NY ****.