It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[djFan71]

Acquiring another big that compliments rwIII or is better than him is next priority, has to feel like long term, no?

For me, ideally getting a center sized stretch 5 and a guy long but athletic enough to play alongside him and cover up his mistakes would be ideal in the short term. I'd have loved to grab Covington. Another good communicator out there with him and enough strength to push with centers on switches.

Also depends where you see Tatum's best fit, playing more at the 4 or 3. I know we're all about position-less ball now, but, I don't know that I like the matchup against Giannis, Durant, LeBron, or Simmons.

What’s the path to get another big? Right now it’s hoping Wagner puts it all together and sticks around on a cheap contract past this season. Or you hit on a John Collins type late in the draft. Or Langford becomes a star and you trade him or Jaylen for a high upside 4. All very low probability events.

Probably Smart.

Looking at Cave's roster depth chart kinda made it pop. He's the most valuable one that we have redundancy for.
Smart, TT and firsts is your clearest path to upgrade this offseason.

[LarryBirdsFingr]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Not a very smart player

[tfribs45]

Holy crap Irving and Harden are going to absolutely torch Kemba/Fournier on defense if we match up with them. We might get swept

Stevens better come up with a defensive scheme that will not only cover for Kemba and Fournier but also Thompson who is much worse at defense than Theis.

That’s a stretch and a half. Theis was soft downlow and TT will bang with the big boys when necessary. Either way Timelord should start

[Curmudgeon]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

[Andrew McCeltic]

For me, ideally getting a center sized stretch 5 and a guy long but athletic enough to play alongside him and cover up his mistakes would be ideal in the short term. I'd have loved to grab Covington. Another good communicator out there with him and enough strength to push with centers on switches.

Also depends where you see Tatum's best fit, playing more at the 4 or 3. I know we're all about position-less ball now, but, I don't know that I like the matchup against Giannis, Durant, LeBron, or Simmons.

What’s the path to get another big? Right now it’s hoping Wagner puts it all together and sticks around on a cheap contract past this season. Or you hit on a John Collins type late in the draft. Or Langford becomes a star and you trade him or Jaylen for a high upside 4. All very low probability events.

Probably Smart.

Looking at Cave's roster depth chart kinda made it pop. He's the most valuable one that we have redundancy for.
Smart, TT and firsts is your clearest path to upgrade this offseason.

So why didn’t we give up Smart for Collins?

[GoGreen]

Seeing how difficult it might be to keep Fournier is having me wonder why did Danny make the move to begin with...

Was Gordon really not avbl for 2 frps, and say, Nesmith? Idk man RJ Hampton and Gary Harris are nice and all but our first this year, another first, and Nesmith would've been a good offering.

I just hope this wasn't a case of Danny hoarding his assets

[djFan71]

What’s the path to get another big? Right now it’s hoping Wagner puts it all together and sticks around on a cheap contract past this season. Or you hit on a John Collins type late in the draft. Or Langford becomes a star and you trade him or Jaylen for a high upside 4. All very low probability events.

Probably Smart.

Looking at Cave's roster depth chart kinda made it pop. He's the most valuable one that we have redundancy for.
Smart, TT and firsts is your clearest path to upgrade this offseason.

So why didn’t we give up Smart for Collins?

We probably tried, but they wanted Jaylen or something stupid.

[bceltic55]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Why?

[zoyathedestroya]

Holy crap Irving and Harden are going to absolutely torch Kemba/Fournier on defense if we match up with them. We might get swept

Stevens better come up with a defensive scheme that will not only cover for Kemba and Fournier but also Thompson who is much worse at defense than Theis.

That’s a stretch and a half. Theis was soft downlow and TT will bang with the big boys when necessary. Either way Timelord should start

Neither Thompson nor Timelord can check the perimeter and recover to the paint. Timelord has the counting stats in blocks and steals and has been better lately in deterring drives but overall, against 70% of the league, I'd still take Theis as our defensive anchor. The rest, you're right, he's too small to defend inside.

[MagicBagley18]

What’s the path to get another big? Right now it’s hoping Wagner puts it all together and sticks around on a cheap contract past this season. Or you hit on a John Collins type late in the draft. Or Langford becomes a star and you trade him or Jaylen for a high upside 4. All very low probability events.

Probably Smart.

Looking at Cave's roster depth chart kinda made it pop. He's the most valuable one that we have redundancy for.
Smart, TT and firsts is your clearest path to upgrade this offseason.

So why didn’t we give up Smart for Collins?

Because it would have cost more than that. I think people are mashing rumors together imo- the hawks wanted a perimeter defender independent of a trade of Collins. I think at least imo if smart gets u Collins we do it. Collins was probably never available for a price we were ever going to pay and it went up when the hawks got hot

[Darth Celtic]

Masslive mentioned one other possibility, which is using the remaining $10 million TPE in a sign and trade for a free agent. Not much there - if you’re lucky you get Jamychal Green or Justise Winslow.

Well, massive is massive dumb because we can't accept a player in a sign and trade and go over the tax, which we will be.

[reload141]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

This offseason is where it's all on the line.

Ainge/ownership has pretty much indicated that. They need to get reps into RWIII as the starting center, Langford & Nesmith.

Then offseason work on seriously upgrading a lot of this roster, Kemba trade (like it has been said before, John Wall, Horford & Westbrook got moved Kemba will have only 2 years left)

I'm just more focused on that now, I really don't think unless Brooklyn has an injury someone will beat them in the East.

Sure Miami loaded up as they have to, but Oladipo & Aldridge aren't some defensive stalwarts...but smart savvy players... dare say they would be better than Edwards & Semi

[keevsnick1]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

Again, its the amount we're gonna have to pay simply to keep the team as constituted together.

[Westy]

No matter how I move salaries around for next year, I still have the C’s $20mm into the tax with Kemba and Fournier.

Let’s say Thompson, Edwards, G. Williams and one of Langford/Nesmith are traded. The combined salaries will be offset by a Fournier re-signing (~$18mm the first year). There will be nine players, counting the draft pick, still at the tax. If you want to obtain 3-4 mid level vets, that’s $15-18 mm, using $30mm worth of trade and other small exceptions, then one-two min roster slots.

[MagicBagley18]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

Again, its the amount we're gonna have to pay simply to keep the team as constituted together.

So 10 year window? Or nah?

[keevsnick1]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

This offseason is where it's all on the line.

Ainge/ownership has pretty much indicated that. They need to get reps into RWIII as the starting center, Langford & Nesmith.

Then offseason work on seriously upgrading a lot of this roster, Kemba trade (like it has been said before, John Wall, Horford & Westbrook got moved Kemba will have only 2 years left)

I'm just more focused on that now, I really don't think unless Brooklyn has an injury someone will beat them in the East.

Sure Miami loaded up as they have to, but Oladipo & Aldridge aren't some defensive stalwarts...but smart savvy players... dare say they would be better than Edwards & Semi

Two of those guys got moved.... for each other. Doing something like that doesn't actually help a team trying to win. The other guy required a first round pick to move off from and made less than Kemba does.

But ya, next offseason is big. Its huge. Its gonna be tough to navigate.

[StojkoVrankovic]

I'm happy we didn't get Gordon.

Like, really happy.

people would have HATED watching 4th option Gordon on this team

[hugepatsfan]

For all those wondering why people like @dangercart are claiming we are **** it's basically this:

If Fournier walks and tatum misses all nba we are less than 2 million below the tax next year for just twelve players.

So bringing back fournier as currently constituted is next to impossible unless you believe the c's are going 20 million into the tax. They are not.

So okay how do you fix that? You could dump kemba, but at roughly 75 million owed over two years that's an albatross. You are talking like two firsts just to move off the deal for the privilege of resigning fournier. You could dump tt but you'd need to replace him on the roster anyway since you need a decent backup due to robs health issues. You no longer have the financial flexibility via a large tpe to add a big wing which you still desperately need.

In short you are financially jammed up with no way out except to shed talent on a team that nobody thinks is good enough as is.

I don't see it the same at all. I'm not going to sit here and say our cap situation is "clean" or anything. But having avoided the tax this year and thus removed ANY AND ALL CONCERNS ABOUT REPEATER TAX RATES EVER KICKING IN BEFORE KEMBA'S DEAL EXPIRES, a point that I cannot stress enough, I do not see this big financial crunch.

NBA luxury tax is not crippling. Repeater tax rates are. We don't have to worry about that. I see no reason to believe that we're going to be pinching pennies in '21-22 or '22-23. Remember, in addition to the contracts we have on the books now, ownership was ok with Ainge offered Hayward a contract in the reported range of $25M/year before CHA came in over that. They were ok adding that much salary to the books we have now. Because a backloaded deal for Hayward would have still kept us below the tax line this year and thus removed any worry about repeater rates. Those have always been what's crippling, not regular tax. We are in the clear.

I just do not see significant financial crunch the next two years when it comes to adding role players. The issue is going to be if we want to trade for a star. Dipping below the cap to sign one outright is not practical when you crunch the numbers, even if Kemba had never been signed in the first place. The only path we have to acquiring another star is via trade and I just do not think we have the assets for that.

You arent thinking about this right. Look avoiding the repeater is nice, but if all the c's did was resign Fournier and make their draft pick they will be 20 million into the tax next year. Thats INTO the tax, not total payments, total overage + payments to be 20 million into the tax is 65 million dollars. In the current ownerships tenure they have never paid more than 30 million in salary/tax overages, that was the second finals year.

JUST to bring back Fournier will require a tax commitment they have literally never made, even when they were in the finals. Thats for a team that before the Fournier addition was 21-23. And that will require locking into a significant commitment to Fournier that locks you into that level for at least two years and likely eats up any cap space you may have after kemba but before jaylen/jayson expire.

In other words what I'm saying is you're too focused on just the tax line, yes they can't really get out of it next year (unless they pay to dump Kemba). But theres a big difference between being a little over, and 20 million over. ITS A LOT OF MONEY. And its not our money, but we have no reason to believe Wyc will spend it.

And look if the answer is "Let Fournier walk" then fine. But then you're back to where you were before this year only now down 2 more total second round picks and with only an 11 million dollar tpe.

So ya, I guess the point is they were in a tough spot before this deal. It's even tough now.

You're not listening to what I'm saying. They were willing to have Hayward on the books for $25M in '21-22 and '22-23 and '23-24. Add that onto our current salary, even factoring in that Thompson would be gone, and you are looking at a team that would be $20M over tax line. You say we have no reason to believe Wyc will spend that.. WRONG. We have every reason to believe that he will spend that in this current environment where we've escaped the tax this year because it is the EXACT financial scenario they offered to enter themselves into this past offseason.

We are right now about $4M under the tax for next year. I have ever reason to believe they will be willing to re-sign Fournier (would guess like $13M in year 1). Add in a mini-MLE player for like $6M. A couple mil for the 1st rounder. That would take us from $4M under to about $17-20M over the tax line. That is the exact place they expressed willingness to go with their Hayward offer. Literally this past offseason they told us they would go there.

[JediMasterRevan]

Watch gordon put up am efficient 16,7,5 for denver.

[keevsnick1]

Me too. He's not very good at basketball, as Denver fans will discover.

What's wrong with paying luxury tax next year? They had already planned for that. It's paying luxury tax THIS year that would have been a killer.

Again, its the amount we're gonna have to pay simply to keep the team as constituted together.

So 10 year window? Or nah?

I mean still a better situation then if we'd trade Jaylen and firsts for Harden yes.