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Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017

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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1821 » by London2Boston » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:07 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:Winners and losers from NBA's stunning free agency

Winner: Boston Celtics
Hayward is perfect for Boston. Had the Pacers waited five days, the Celtics might have Paul George, too. When the league lowered its cap projection from about $101 million to $99 million, it became trickier for Boston to acquire George before free agency and leave enough space for Hayward.

With Hayward aboard, Boston would have at least revived its draft-day offer: two starters and three picks from among Boston's own first-rounders and protected selections coming from the Clippers and Grizzlies. They might have even shoved in one of their golden chips -- next season's Brooklyn pick or the Lakers-Kings pick they snagged in the Markelle Fultz deal -- to get across the goal line. Indiana will never know.

Boston earned this with one of the greatest rebuilds in sports history. The Celtics aren't even supposed to be here now, eyeing LeBron. Fleecing Brooklyn was about Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and those extra picks. It was about 2020 and beyond. Along the way, they nailed the side moves too many teams neglect -- or fail to notice at all. They stole Isaiah Thomas. They insisted on Jae Crowder as a throw-in to the Rajon Rondo trade. Boom: Forty percent of the starting lineup on a conference finals team, from found money.

Being good drew Horford. Getting better drew Hayward. Now Boston can play for 2018 and 2022. Hayward is a half-decade-plus older than Tatum and Brown, but their presence -- and those future picks -- factored into his calculus, even if players so young are rarely ready to win alongside a prime-aged star. Maybe those two are, though; Brown looks it. And if Hayward sticks in Boston, they represent successors ready to carry him into his 30s.


Glad this mentioned. The Brooklyn trade is so amazing that getting Thomas and Jae gets slept on a lot.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1822 » by GreenFor3 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:12 pm

London2Boston wrote:
CrowderKeg wrote:Winners and losers from NBA's stunning free agency

Winner: Boston Celtics
Hayward is perfect for Boston. Had the Pacers waited five days, the Celtics might have Paul George, too. When the league lowered its cap projection from about $101 million to $99 million, it became trickier for Boston to acquire George before free agency and leave enough space for Hayward.

With Hayward aboard, Boston would have at least revived its draft-day offer: two starters and three picks from among Boston's own first-rounders and protected selections coming from the Clippers and Grizzlies. They might have even shoved in one of their golden chips -- next season's Brooklyn pick or the Lakers-Kings pick they snagged in the Markelle Fultz deal -- to get across the goal line. Indiana will never know.

Boston earned this with one of the greatest rebuilds in sports history. The Celtics aren't even supposed to be here now, eyeing LeBron. Fleecing Brooklyn was about Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and those extra picks. It was about 2020 and beyond. Along the way, they nailed the side moves too many teams neglect -- or fail to notice at all. They stole Isaiah Thomas. They insisted on Jae Crowder as a throw-in to the Rajon Rondo trade. Boom: Forty percent of the starting lineup on a conference finals team, from found money.

Being good drew Horford. Getting better drew Hayward. Now Boston can play for 2018 and 2022. Hayward is a half-decade-plus older than Tatum and Brown, but their presence -- and those future picks -- factored into his calculus, even if players so young are rarely ready to win alongside a prime-aged star. Maybe those two are, though; Brown looks it. And if Hayward sticks in Boston, they represent successors ready to carry him into his 30s.


Glad this mentioned. The Brooklyn trade is so amazing that getting Thomas and Jae gets slept on a lot.

Thomas actually does come from the Brooklyn trade in a way. TPE from the trade became Thornton, Zeller and Cle 1st rounder. And then Thornton and that first became IT.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1823 » by Banks2Pierce » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:29 pm

165bows wrote:Seems to cover everyone but Smart. He's the only tradeable contract left.

I suppose they could turn around and trade Morris as well.


Might not want to praise him too much if they're planning on extending him in the fall. He was linked with the Knicks, though. And now they will be unable to get a pg for anything other than small $ based on the THJ offer sheet that will not get matched. Just think he's too damn good and Willy HG is a blah prospect that will not be able to play in the later parts of the playoffs.

Never got to praise you for being on the Hayward trail in about 2014. Big week!
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1824 » by Froob » Sat Jul 8, 2017 1:57 pm

Shame cap was a bit lower, people actually are blaming Ainge for miscaulcating lol, how would he know the cap would be a bit lower?
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1825 » by Green89 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:02 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:
CrowderKeg wrote:Didn't know where to put this...

Read on Twitter


Weird ass stats. Hayward was extremely efficient last year on a bad offensive team and isn't on this list? 8th best scorer in the league- behind the likes of Durant, IT... etc. The guy was super good and he ain't even there.



Any list that has Victor Oladipo measuring the same as IT, Kyrie, and John Wall is immediately **** in my book.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1826 » by jordb2k7 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 2:07 pm

GreenFor3 wrote:
London2Boston wrote:
CrowderKeg wrote:Winners and losers from NBA's stunning free agency

Winner: Boston Celtics



Glad this mentioned. The Brooklyn trade is so amazing that getting Thomas and Jae gets slept on a lot.

Thomas actually does come from the Brooklyn trade in a way. TPE from the trade became Thornton, Zeller and Cle 1st rounder. And then Thornton and that first became IT.



This may not totally be fair but I count Smart as a part of that trade as well. I'm a huge fan of Smart even with his shortcomings with shooting, his energy/defense is so exciting to watch. If we keep Pierce/KG we aren't picking 6th that year to get him. James Young was the pick at 17 from the Nets that year with KG/Pierce so it's not unreasonable to think that we could have been in that area without trading them away. Smart isn't a superstar but I think he's a valuable piece on a contending team.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1827 » by Disinformation » Sat Jul 8, 2017 3:23 pm

Froob wrote:Shame cap was a bit lower, people actually are blaming Ainge for miscaulcating lol, how would he know the cap would be a bit lower?

The guy who deserves the blame is Kevin Durant.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1828 » by okan_cp3 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 3:28 pm

Well, I'd like to watch this team.

17/18 Salary Cap 99.093.000
Gordon Hayward 29.727.900
Al Horford 27.734.405
Jae Crowder 6.796.117
Isaiah Thomas 6.261.394
Jayson Tatum 5.645.400
Marcus Morris 5.000.000
Jaylen Brown 4.956.480
Marcus Smart 3.578.880
Terry Rozier 1.988.520
Ante Zizic 1.645.200
Demetrius Jackson 1.384.750
Jordan Mickey 1.471.420
Guaranteed 96.190.466
Cap Room 2.902.534

Jordan Mickey -1.471.420 Waive Mickey
Tony Allen / Jamal Crawford 2.328.652 sign veteran minimum
Daniel Theis 815.615 sign rookie minimum
Semi Ojeleye / Abdel Nader 815.615 sign rookie minimum
Guerchon Yabusele ($2.247.480) - stash one more year
Cap Room 414.072
Dewayne Dedmon/Ekpe Udoh 4.328.000 Use room exception


2017/2018 BOSTON CELTICS ROSTER

PG Isaiah Thomas - Terry Rozier - Demetrius Jackson
SG Jaylen Brown - Marcus Smart - Tony Allen/Jamal Crawford
SF Gordon Hayward - Jayson Tatum - Abdel Nader/Semi Ojeleye
PF Jae Crowder - Marcus Morris - Daniel Theis
C Al Horford - Dewayne Dedmon/Ekpe Udoh - Ante Zizic
Sorry for my English.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1829 » by Froob » Sat Jul 8, 2017 3:53 pm

I feel like everyone but Clippers fans wants Jamal Crawford lol.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1830 » by GregB » Sat Jul 8, 2017 5:19 pm

Does Valancunias have any shot at being a reclamation project and potential future salary filler in a deal in the next two years?
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1831 » by chrisab123 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 5:21 pm

Any chance KCP takes a 1 year deal on the exception to go back on the market next year? That would be hilarious.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1832 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:02 pm

GregB wrote:Does Valancunias have any shot at being a reclamation project and potential future salary filler in a deal in the next two years?

Let's not help the Raptors out of their financial bind. Clearly no one else wants to either. He is not a reclamation project. He is what he is at this point and it's not his fault. The NBA game has passed him and bigs like him by. Teams shouldn't be investing any type of significant money on plodding bigs who will struggle against pace-and-space offense. If he gets bought out, I wouldn't mind him for the minimum.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1833 » by OFWGKTA » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:05 pm

Green89 wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:
CrowderKeg wrote:Didn't know where to put this...

Read on Twitter


Weird ass stats. Hayward was extremely efficient last year on a bad offensive team and isn't on this list? 8th best scorer in the league- behind the likes of Durant, IT... etc. The guy was super good and he ain't even there.



Any list that has Victor Oladipo measuring the same as IT, Kyrie, and John Wall is immediately **** in my book.



Any stat that's a "projection" tends to underrate IT by default.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1834 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:17 pm

OFWGKTA wrote:
Green89 wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:
Weird ass stats. Hayward was extremely efficient last year on a bad offensive team and isn't on this list? 8th best scorer in the league- behind the likes of Durant, IT... etc. The guy was super good and he ain't even there.



Any list that has Victor Oladipo measuring the same as IT, Kyrie, and John Wall is immediately **** in my book.



Any stat that's a "projection" tends to underrate IT by default.

Plus no statistical model/analysis is perfect. There will always be outliers or specific players whose appearance on a list would be harder to explain if viewed alongside game film/eye test. Dismissing the whole analysis because a single element appears it doesn't belong is silly. It's certainly better than GB talk on who should belong on which tier without any sort of objective basis backing it up.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1835 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:20 pm

chrisab123 wrote:
Roddy wrote:What about Ersan IIyasova ? 6'10, 13pts, 6rbs, 35% from 3. 30 years old.


Has a better chance than Dedmon. He can shoot the 3 ball which is something this organization values. Ainge has no interest in traditional centers. Personally I'd be all in on Dedmon but thats just me.


Ilyasova's got warts, or else he would be coveted.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1836 » by ConstableGeneva » Sat Jul 8, 2017 6:58 pm

Good post-Morris-Bradley-trade article and what could possibly come next: http://www.celticshub.com/2017/07/08/celtics-post-hayward-roster-cap-review/

Trade possibilities are going to open up once Hayward is signed and we're no longer restricted by the cap. The article also touches on future tax implications of further salary commitments this offseason and next.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1837 » by Froob » Sat Jul 8, 2017 7:04 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:
GregB wrote:Does Valancunias have any shot at being a reclamation project and potential future salary filler in a deal in the next two years?

Let's not help the Raptors out of their financial bind. Clearly no one else wants to either. He is not a reclamation project. He is what he is at this point and it's not his fault. The NBA game has passed him and bigs like him by. Teams shouldn't be investing any type of significant money on plodding bigs who will struggle against pace-and-space offense. If he gets bought out, I wouldn't mind him for the minimum.

Yeah why would we want a guy that couldn't be on the floor vs Cleveland and probably Golden State?
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1838 » by Brad is God » Sat Jul 8, 2017 8:03 pm

I'm noticing a lot of people on here's new projected depth lineups for 2018 do NOT include Zizic anymore.
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1839 » by chrisab123 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 8:06 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
Roddy wrote:What about Ersan IIyasova ? 6'10, 13pts, 6rbs, 35% from 3. 30 years old.


Has a better chance than Dedmon. He can shoot the 3 ball which is something this organization values. Ainge has no interest in traditional centers. Personally I'd be all in on Dedmon but thats just me.


Ilyasova's got warts, or else he would be coveted.


He fits the Celtics profile more than Dedmon
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Re: Summer Trade/(OffSeason) Thread 2017 

Post#1840 » by Green89 » Sat Jul 8, 2017 10:46 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:
OFWGKTA wrote:
Green89 wrote:

Any list that has Victor Oladipo measuring the same as IT, Kyrie, and John Wall is immediately **** in my book.



Any stat that's a "projection" tends to underrate IT by default.

Plus no statistical model/analysis is perfect. There will always be outliers or specific players whose appearance on a list would be harder to explain if viewed alongside game film/eye test. Dismissing the whole analysis because a single element appears it doesn't belong is silly. It's certainly better than GB talk on who should belong on which tier without any sort of objective basis backing it up.


I tend to dismiss any stats people use to attempt to rate a single player, when said stat takes into consideration your team and not just an individual's performance. +/- stats are arguably the most flawed of any advanced individual stats, which is what this chart uses.

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