Gordon Hayward Thread

[MagicBagley18]

Hey guys , I was curious if anyone could provide some stats for me showing just how well Hayward is playing now compared to his best days in Utah. I tried looking and I’ve found some but I know some of you here are just better getting stats than me.

Having a friendly argument with a co-worker whose telling me how Gordon hasn’t been good this year for the Celtics and I said actually when he’s played for the most part and what we’ve asked of him he’s been great. We both admit he will never be the athletic Gordon he was in Utah but said he’s been incredibly important for us but his biggest flaws have been health and him not being aggressive enough.

Just looking for some comparisons or stats that back up how well he’s been playing lately and for the most part when he’s been healthy

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html

Will use 16-17 as comparison point.

Utah: 21.9/5.4/3.5 on 47.1/39.8/84.4 shooting splits [59.5 TS in a league where average TS was below current levels]. 9.0% rebound rate and 18.2% assist rate. 33.4/8.2/5.3 per 100 possessions, which is important because pace in general has increased today

Boston: 17.2/6.6/4.1 on 51.4/39.3/87.2 shooting splits [ 60.5 TS which is likely slightly less impressive relative to average in today’s game]. 10.8% rebound rate and 19.2% assist rate. 25.3/9.7/6.0 per 100.

His scoring is worse. Part of this is due to role [first option in Utah, 4th option here], part of it is due to aggressiveness declining [.371 FTr vs .182 now].

His plus/minus stats have decreased from then to now, suggesting he’s gone from a top 20 to top 50 player. Part of this is again due to role, but part is also due to scoring decline.

He’s a more skilled player today than he was in Utah— his shooting splits are up in each zone save 3’s, his rebounding is better, his handle is better and his vision is better. However, his athleticism and aggression have unquestionably declined as well. Would say he’s less versatile defensively today as well, and probably a worse defender overall accordingly.

I would peg the decrease in athleticism as slightly more significant than the addition in skill and would say he’s a less impactful player today than he was at his peak in Utah.

Hey thank you very much man I appreciate it. I saw these stats but you articulated yourself way way better than I ever could and appreciate you taking your time. This backs up my argument pretty much to a T. AGAIN thank u

[zoyathedestroya]

Read on Twitter

4th in usage in that span. If there's such a thing as production-to-usage ratio, he'd be up there with the best of them. Might be a good idea to put the ball in his hands more.

EDIT: Hayward leads the team in Player Impact Estimate during that 9-game span.

[zoyathedestroya]

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I imagine these grades are even higher now. This was posted after his bad stretch of play due to his foot issue. He's been more proficient (at around the same usage) since 2020 began. Any team would be lucky to have him as a 1st/2nd option. Instead, he's been content (for now) and terrific filling the gaps on the team as a 3rd/4th option. I don't know how much it would take for him not to look elsewhere and jump ship, but Cs would be crazy not to try anything within reason to keep him.

[jfs1000d]

Read on Twitter

I imagine these grades are even higher now. This was posted after his bad stretch of play due to his foot issue. He's been more proficient (at around the same usage) since 2020 began. Any team would be lucky to have him as a 1st/2nd option. Instead, he's been content (for now) and terrific filling the gaps on the team as a 3rd/4th option. I don't know how much it would take for him not to look elsewhere and jump ship, but Cs would be crazy not to try anything within reason to keep him.

Gordon has been outstanding this year. I don’t know what other people have seen. When he has a bad game, it is a bad game, it isn’t that he is no longer the player he was.

Athleticism has decreased slightly, but that happens with all players. Still and explosive player who is a terrific finisher.


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[Red2]

Missed layups are a major concern with Gordon

[zoyathedestroya]

Missed layups are a major concern with Gordon

He's shooting 69.6% in the restricted area, 2nd on the team behind Theis (69.9%). Jaylen in 3rd is at 66.1%. If missed layups are a concern for Gordon, it should be a concern for everyone in green.

[Feed Your Head]

Gordon is an incredible finisher, people just remember the couple of missed layups late in games.

[Edug27]

Missed layups are a major concern with Gordon

He's shooting 69.6% in the restricted area, 2nd on the team behind Theis (69.9%). Jaylen in 3rd is at 66.1%. If missed layups are a concern for Gordon, it should be a concern for everyone in green.

I don’t think it’s the missed layups in general.. probably more around the timing of his missed layups or brain farts ... idk, I’m not concerned either way.

[Bleeding Green]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

[zoyathedestroya]

Missed layups are a major concern with Gordon

He's shooting 69.6% in the restricted area, 2nd on the team behind Theis (69.9%). Jaylen in 3rd is at 66.1%. If missed layups are a concern for Gordon, it should be a concern for everyone in green.

I don’t think it’s the missed layups in general.. probably more around the timing of his missed layups or brain farts ... idk, I’m not concerned either way.

Yep, he shoots worse in 4th quarters -- 69.0%. Still better than Kemba (by 6%) and Tatum (by 10%).
I do think it's natural for fans to remember missed clutch shots in losses. Like you, I'm not concerned let alone majorly concerned about Hayward's shooting or performance overall.

[zoyathedestroya]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

Fans have been clamoring for him to be aggressive with his scoring after all.

But yes, yikes. And he had a couple of awful passes in the 4th today.

[Bleeding Green]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

Fans have been clamoring for him to be aggressive with his scoring after all.

But yes, yikes. And he had a couple of awful passes in the 4th today.

Be more aggressive in the first 47 minutes, not when you are winning in the final 60 seconds, and the best case scenario is that you give LeBron the ball back with 45 seconds and just needing a three to tie. But I guess the decision tonight wasn't as bad as the OKC one, max he could have run off what like 10-12 more seconds? If he hits it I probably don't even care.

[threrf23]

I didn't mind that last minute layup attempt, he got to the rim with ease and simply missed a bunny. Lost in this mix is that he quietly nearly pulled off a triple dub.

Statistically, in past seasons (including Utah) he has shot really poorly from 3 in clutch-ish situations (probably from 2 too but I don't have the numbers off the top of my head). To quote a post of mine from the offseason:

Over the past three seasons in the 4th quarter and OT:

Hayward has shot 20-39 from three with his team leading by between 3 and 14 points.

But with his team's score within two points of the opponent, Hayward shot 3-27, and with his team losing by between 3 and 14 points, he shot 12-37.

So there's likely a mental block he often experiences come big moments/games/etc.

[jfs1000d]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

That was a great decision.

He had Anthony Davis on the ground, he saw it and pushed it up 5-on-4 with no rim protection. He got to the front of the rim and missed an easy shot. He has to make that.


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[peachbucket]

Bottom line is he's a bit soft.

I think he puts up much better numbers against lesser defenses. I don't trust him in high at all in high pressure games/situations. He definitely does not have an alpha mentality like all the other starters and I would even go so far as to say he has confidence issues.

[sam_I_am]

A mediocre shooting night by Hayward and we win. Will he step it up just once against an elite team when we need it? Our playoff success depends on him making that incremental leap back to his former self.

[big-shot-ROB]

I still feel Hayward has some confidence issues and Brad should really try to get him going early in games.

There was a moment in the first quarter were it was Smart, Ojeleye, Kanter and Brad with him on the floor and he didn't even touch the ball for what felt like 5 entire posessions. If he is not going to demand the ball (we can't change his personality) at least force the team to run some actions to get him the ball in a natural way.

And yeah, he crunches in big situations but remember he is our 4th option so I'm not too worried.

And I'm pretty sure he is our deadliest finisher from midrange and layups. The guy has not missed a pull-up midranger coming from a pick&roll in a long time. Same as his turnaround shots.

[BRUNiNHO91]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

Fans have been clamoring for him to be aggressive with his scoring after all.

But yes, yikes. And he had a couple of awful passes in the 4th today.

Be more aggressive in the first 47 minutes, not when you are winning in the final 60 seconds, and the best case scenario is that you give LeBron the ball back with 45 seconds and just needing a three to tie. But I guess the decision tonight wasn't as bad as the OKC one, max he could have run off what like 10-12 more seconds? If he hits it I probably don't even care.

Pretty sure it would have been a 4pt game if he made that lay up. Would have nearly iced the game..such a shame.

[Bleeding Green]

Fans have been clamoring for him to be aggressive with his scoring after all.

But yes, yikes. And he had a couple of awful passes in the 4th today.

Be more aggressive in the first 47 minutes, not when you are winning in the final 60 seconds, and the best case scenario is that you give LeBron the ball back with 45 seconds and just needing a three to tie. But I guess the decision tonight wasn't as bad as the OKC one, max he could have run off what like 10-12 more seconds? If he hits it I probably don't even care.

Pretty sure it would have been a 4pt game if he made that lay up. Would have nearly iced the game..such a shame.

Yeah, you and threrf are right, I'm prob way too conservative in situations like that and value taking 24 seconds off the clock more than I should. The previous one against OKC was a poor decision as time was the only thing that mattered at that point (up 3, with the ball, shot clock is off; and Hayward attempts a layup instead of just dribbling around until fouled.)

[crimsonandblue]

I'm more concerned with the terrible decision-making in tight spots. That layup attempt today with like 45 seconds left? Yikes. The decision to go for a layup late against OKC? Dumb as well.

That layup attempt within the final minute was one of the most idiotic shot attempts I've seen this season. How does a 30 year old veteran make that play?