All Things 2017 Draft

[greenroom31]

Again, you're mistaken. Body fat % (which can vary by as much as 5% weekly) and weight are just not important considerations here. We can see everything we need to see by watching how Ingram plays.

Ingram needs to learn how to apply his body with it's particular points of leverages (as determined by the lengths of arms, legs, torso) in a forceful way while playing the game of basketball against grown men.

Last time I checked, F=MA. So mass does, in fact matter if you want to "apply your body in a forceful way".

[ryaningf]

Again, you're mistaken. Body fat % (which can vary by as much as 5% weekly) and weight are just not important considerations here. We can see everything we need to see by watching how Ingram plays.

Ingram needs to learn how to apply his body with it's particular points of leverages (as determined by the lengths of arms, legs, torso) in a forceful way while playing the game of basketball against grown men.

Last time I checked, F=MA. So mass does, in fact matter if you want to "apply your body in a forceful way".

As long as you reach a certain threshold of mass, acceleration will always have much more impact on the F=MA equation in sport-specific conditions.

[pasfru]

Oh ****.

We bringing physics into armchair scouting now.

[greenroom31]

Again, you're mistaken. Body fat % (which can vary by as much as 5% weekly) and weight are just not important considerations here. We can see everything we need to see by watching how Ingram plays.

Ingram needs to learn how to apply his body with it's particular points of leverages (as determined by the lengths of arms, legs, torso) in a forceful way while playing the game of basketball against grown men.

Last time I checked, F=MA. So mass does, in fact matter if you want to "apply your body in a forceful way".

As long as you reach a certain threshold of mass, acceleration will always have much more impact on the F=MA equation in sport-specific conditions.

That supposes that the difference in mass between most players will be less significant (as a %) than the difference in acceleration between most players. Seems plausible but not necessarily true. In any event, it certainly contradicts your point above that "weight is just not an important consideration". Weight matters, it might matter somewhat less than acceleration, but it definitely matters if you want to discuss force.

[greenroom31]

Oh ****.

We bringing physics into armchair scouting now.

Well if someone's going to write several paragraphs telling another poster they are factually wrong about what strength means, they might as well follow the basic laws of physics right?

[SmartWentCrazy]

I wasn't high on the star potential of Turner coming out of the draft and fear I'm making a similar mistake. Why can't Isaac be the next Turner?

To add, please don't call Isaac a wing. He can't dribble and can't create. He's 100% going to be a big at the next level.

Isaac will be better than Turner given a higher IQ. I like Isaac's awareness on the defensive end.

I disagree that you don't think Isaac will be a wing player. I predict he'll start out as a SF where he can dominate on the perimeter and when he puts on some weight and fills out he'll move to the 4 spot where he will be effective in the post. His handle isn't good when going against smaller guards but there are many clips of Isaac putting the ball on the floor against bigs and finishing with authority.

If Isaac were a senior instead of a freshman I would agree with you completely but I think judging Isaac's handle given that he's only 19 isn't really fair or accurate. He dribbles more than he should but at least he has the mindset to do so. This is important, as it's necessary o have the mindset of a ball handler in order to become one.

I just don't think he'll be able to do anything on the offensive end on day 1. I see him as a poor mans Otto Porter on that front, who similarly struggled to really get going. I see the 4 as his best position going forward, and a very interesting fit next to Al.

[Gomes3PC]

I actually think Isaac's best long-term spot in the NBA is at center. For a center, he's passable with his handle. His frame is no worse than a guy like Channing Frye and he's much more athletic & a better rebounder than Frye.

I see basically zero shot he turns into an NBA SF.

[GoodVibezin]

I just don't think he'll be able to do anything on the offensive end on day 1. I see him as a poor mans Otto Porter on that front, who similarly struggled to really get going. I see the 4 as his best position going forward, and a very interesting fit next to Al.

Yes, I think Isaac will ultimately become a dominant 4 but I'm thinking 3 or 4 years down the line which is why I'd like to see Danny go for another top 10 pick in the coming draft.

I like the future core of Lonzo Ball, Jaylen Brown, Jonathan Isaac and Ante Zizic. (With a good chance of adding Bamba, Ayton or Porter).

[jmr07019]

First shoe of the big baller brand (aka Lavar and Lonzo ball) will cost $500 lololololol good luck Lavar

[London2Boston]

First shoe of the big baller brand (aka Lavar and Lonzo ball) will cost $500 lololololol good luck Lavar

The shoe looks better than I thought it would. Ridiculous price though.

[sam_I_am]

Weight and center of balance definitely matters when defending in post and when fighting for rebounding position. When 2 guys are leaning on each other, the heavier guy has the advantage unless he has a high center of gravity. Ingram is skinny and very long so he definitely will get pushed around in the paint a lot regardless of how much stronger he gets. However, in today's perimeter oriented game that might not matter like Ryan has suggested.

His future has more to do with his shooting ability and I expect a big leap next year if he is going to be as good as we all thought.

[ryaningf]

Last time I checked, F=MA. So mass does, in fact matter if you want to "apply your body in a forceful way".

As long as you reach a certain threshold of mass, acceleration will always have much more impact on the F=MA equation in sport-specific conditions.

That supposes that the difference in mass between most players will be less significant (as a %) than the difference in acceleration between most players. Seems plausible but not necessarily true. In any event, it certainly contradicts your point above that "weight is just not an important consideration". Weight matters, it might matter somewhat less than acceleration, but it definitely matters if you want to discuss force.

Unless you're anorexic or overweight, weight is almost never a concern. Basketball is a game of speed.

You need to step off the physics for a second. What I'm saying is that on the basketball court playing basketball things like angles, footwork, quickness, anticipation, intelligence are more decisive in deciding things like rebounds, box outs, post defense (areas where strength comes into play) than pure strength. If you can master those concepts, you can be effective and play with force even if you're skinny or lack muscular definition. If you've studied martial arts, you'll know that the key to that art is not brute strength but refining your ability to redirect energy to create force that's greater than something you could create in isolation (you redirect your opponent's force back at them). That's what the best players do too...

A focus on muscles, strength, and physique is generally misguided in the realm of scouting (this is one of my major gripes with Danny). Jaylen Brown's body is much more refined and muscular than Ingram's but both guys are pretty clueless when it comes to using what they have in an intelligent manner in order to generate any significant force so in fact they're both equally "weak" even though one guys looks buff and the other guy look skinny.

[Gomes3PC]

As long as you reach a certain threshold of mass, acceleration will always have much more impact on the F=MA equation in sport-specific conditions.

That supposes that the difference in mass between most players will be less significant (as a %) than the difference in acceleration between most players. Seems plausible but not necessarily true. In any event, it certainly contradicts your point above that "weight is just not an important consideration". Weight matters, it might matter somewhat less than acceleration, but it definitely matters if you want to discuss force.

Unless you're anorexic or overweight, weight is almost never a concern. Basketball is a game of speed.

You need to step off the physics for a second. What I'm saying is that on the basketball court playing basketball things like angles, footwork, quickness, anticipation, intelligence are more decisive in deciding things like rebounds, box outs, post defense (areas where strength comes into play) than pure strength. If you can master those concepts, you can be effective and play with force even if you're skinny or lack muscular definition. If you've studied martial arts, you'll know that the key to that art is not brute strength but refining your ability to redirect energy to create force that's greater than something you could create in isolation (you redirect your opponent's force back at them). That's what the best players do too...

A focus on muscles, strength, and physique is generally misguided in the realm of scouting (this is one of my major gripes with Danny). Jaylen Brown's body is much more refined and muscular than Ingram's but both guys are pretty clueless when it comes to using what they have in an intelligent manner in order to generate any significant force so in fact they're both equally "weak" even though one guys looks buff and the other guy look skinny.

Speed matters but strength is absolutely essential in halfcourt, playoff basketball. There's a reason a guy like Marcus Smart has gotten critical minutes despite a clear lack of explosion. He's built like a tank and that allows him to win rebounding battles and fight through screens/post-up's/etc.

[ryaningf]

That supposes that the difference in mass between most players will be less significant (as a %) than the difference in acceleration between most players. Seems plausible but not necessarily true. In any event, it certainly contradicts your point above that "weight is just not an important consideration". Weight matters, it might matter somewhat less than acceleration, but it definitely matters if you want to discuss force.

Unless you're anorexic or overweight, weight is almost never a concern. Basketball is a game of speed.

You need to step off the physics for a second. What I'm saying is that on the basketball court playing basketball things like angles, footwork, quickness, anticipation, intelligence are more decisive in deciding things like rebounds, box outs, post defense (areas where strength comes into play) than pure strength. If you can master those concepts, you can be effective and play with force even if you're skinny or lack muscular definition. If you've studied martial arts, you'll know that the key to that art is not brute strength but refining your ability to redirect energy to create force that's greater than something you could create in isolation (you redirect your opponent's force back at them). That's what the best players do too...

A focus on muscles, strength, and physique is generally misguided in the realm of scouting (this is one of my major gripes with Danny). Jaylen Brown's body is much more refined and muscular than Ingram's but both guys are pretty clueless when it comes to using what they have in an intelligent manner in order to generate any significant force so in fact they're both equally "weak" even though one guys looks buff and the other guy look skinny.

Speed matters but strength is absolutely essential in halfcourt, playoff basketball. There's a reason a guy like Marcus Smart has gotten critical minutes despite a clear lack of explosion. He's built like a tank and that allows him to win rebounding battles and fight through screens/post-up's/etc.

Marcus is incredibly strong (if I remember correctly he benched 185 33 times at the combine...that's insane) but pure strength is like less than 10% of what makes him a great defender. Anticipation, tenacity, mindset, toughness, great hands and feet are much more important traits. I guess what I'm saying is that Marcus would be a great defender even if like Durant he couldn't bench press 185 even one time. Strength is a tool in the toolbox but you can succeed without having a bunch of it too.

The lack of explosion is a problem on the offensive end but not defensively IMO. Boxing guys out and standing them up when they try to back you down can be a matter of pure strength, but only if you play it like that (and for big muscle bound guys, that's exactly how they play it). But smart defenders like Marcus use leverage to get lower (low man wins), and also tend to hit first and not allow their opponent to get a good position in the first place. So they take the battle from the plane of pure strength to something that allows more gamesmanship.

We all remember when Marcus played a great 4th quarter against Millsap in last years playoff when no other player on our team could guard Millsap. But what Marcus did was more psychological than anything else. Millsap saw that they put a guard on him and thought like all bigs that I'll just take him in the post and get an easy look. But that was exactly what Smart wanted, and by bodying him before he got the ball, and then getting lower when he started to back him down, he forced him into bad off-balance shots (this happens all the time when guys try to post IT too). A smarter player than Millsap would have seen the same scenario and simply isolated against him on the perimeter. Marcus' height disadvantage was actually more detrimental on the perimeter than the interior (it's counterintuitive, I know) because on the perimeter you can easily free your shooting hand for an uncontested shot with a few dribbles moves and countermoves but if you back a smart defender like Marcus down he's going to sap your power, limit your force (because there's no acceleration in close quarters) and be right against your body for every shot you take.

[AlCelticFan]

First shoe of the big baller brand (aka Lavar and Lonzo ball) will cost $500 lololololol good luck Lavar

The shoe looks better than I thought it would. Ridiculous price though.

What are the made out of gold nuggets?

Who exactly do they think their market is?

What kind of margins are they really getting here? It seems to me like the margins are so high on sneakers that it makes more sense to charge less, and get that much more people actually willing to buy the product... At $500 a pair they're going to seriously reduce their sales volume.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Man, Lonzo Ball's shoe actually looks real good. Price is way too high for my interest, but these will sell. This will end up working out handsomely for the Balls.

Edit- he's not going after the traditional NBA shoe market, he's clearly going after the niche luxury sneaker market (i.e. the dudes who drop $1,000+ on Kanyes shoes). Very interesting play. If he goes to LA, he's gunna make a fortune. Boston or Philly? Not as much.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Also, less than 2 weeks to the lotto... can't wait.

[Banks2Pierce]

Also, less than 2 weeks to the lotto... can't wait.

Draft is only 7 weeks away as well. Love how quickly the NBA transitions from the playoffs to the fun offseason stuff. We'll be watching Lonzo and Jaylen alleyoops in 2 months!

[165bows]

Man, Lonzo Ball's shoe actually looks real good. Price is way too high for my interest, but these will sell. This will end up working out handsomely for the Balls.

Edit- he's not going after the traditional NBA shoe market, he's clearly going after the niche luxury sneaker market (i.e. the dudes who drop $1,000+ on Kanyes shoes). Very interesting play. If he goes to LA, he's gunna make a fortune. Boston or Philly? Not as much.

Yeah I agree with whoever posted earlier that if he plays well and plays these cards right, this is going to be a 8-9 figure venture once his line gets bought out.

[brackdan70]

Oh ****.

We bringing physics into armchair scouting now.

Well if someone's going to write several paragraphs telling another poster they are factually wrong about what strength means, they might as well follow the basic laws of physics right?

as long as nobody talks about basketball IQ, I am ok