Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt. 10: Free Agency is in Free Flow

[Edug27]

I think the only way Washington trades Beal anytime soon is if a) Wall is attached or b) they get a haul that's about 50-60% of what OKC got for Paul George.

Maybe a package highlighted by Brown and the Memphis pick could get us in the conversation, but I wouldn't underestimate other desperate teams willingness to mortgage their future.

How can any team trade for both Beal and Wall? That’s 64 mil combined salary.

Right now, Miami can. If that's all it would take. Denver can easily put a package together -- Millsap/Plumlee/Harris. Again, just in terms of salary not extending more than two years.

Why would Miami do what no other team is willing to do? Put some respect on Rileys name.

[Edug27]

So just to be clear.. you think swapping Jaylen and Smart for Beal makes us a worse overall team?

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

It would be Dame/CJ Eastern conference edition. Lots of offensive firepower, but a bit toothless against elite teams.

Now coming off a WCF appearance, give Dame and CJ the likes of Tatum and Hayward to play with.

[zoyathedestroya]

i don't think kemba is soft at all. i think he has balls of steel. i also would rather find the elite scoring and shooting and then find toughness then have the toughness and not have top talent. crowder was tough, bradley was tough, how'd that go?

LOL I didn't mean I prefer toughness over offensive ineptness. I prefer two-way players. Give me Kawhi, PG, Butler types. Kemba is tough as nails but still weak defensively. That core won't stop the latest iteration of the Bucks, for example, even if you replace Crazy Kyrie with Kemba.

have to agree to disagree i guess, bucks lost brogdon and mirotic and although they still have giannis i think we would be better. hayward healthy with kemba and tatum making the leap most expect and beal with brad coaching is an offensive juggernaught.
76ers have a terrible bench and good luck having them guard that 4 on the wings.

depth this season is an issue but it is already.

A Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-BIG five (then you add Smart as wildcard) will do as much damage or better than a Kemba-Beal-Tatum-Hayward-BIG five against any team in the East. It hinges more on Tatum's progression, Hayward getting back to his old self, and who that BIG is than whatever offensive upgrade you get from Brown to Beal (considering the defensive downgrade).

Yeah, agree to disagree. I think we've exhausted our POVs already. If it were a healthy Klay, then count me in.

[GregB]

All in all. It could be a lot worse. Excited to see Kemba in our system. Still think we need a good PF pretty badly. But small ball seems to be the way.

Only major move I could see would be Hayward for Love. I am not advocating for it. But in terms of Roster balance it makes sense.

[Edug27]

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

It would be Dame/CJ Eastern conference edition. Lots of offensive firepower, but a bit toothless against elite teams.

Cs don't even have a Nurkic. Even Harkless and Aminu were better defenders than Tatum and Hayward.

That's nice. But I bet you the Blazers trade all 3 for Tatum.

[Edug27]

LOL I didn't mean I prefer toughness over offensive ineptness. I prefer two-way players. Give me Kawhi, PG, Butler types. Kemba is tough as nails but still weak defensively. That core won't stop the latest iteration of the Bucks, for example, even if you replace Crazy Kyrie with Kemba.

have to agree to disagree i guess, bucks lost brogdon and mirotic and although they still have giannis i think we would be better. hayward healthy with kemba and tatum making the leap most expect and beal with brad coaching is an offensive juggernaught.
76ers have a terrible bench and good luck having them guard that 4 on the wings.

depth this season is an issue but it is already.

A Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-BIG five (then you add Smart as wildcard) will do as much damage or better than a Kemba-Beal-Tatum-Hayward-BIG five against any team in the East.

Worse than any of your sign and trade posts from a couple weeks ago.

[zoyathedestroya]

How can any team trade for both Beal and Wall? That’s 64 mil combined salary.

Right now, Miami can. If that's all it would take. Denver can easily put a package together -- Millsap/Plumlee/Harris. Again, just in terms of salary not extending more than two years.

Why would Miami do what no other team is willing to do? Put some respect on Rileys name.

They're willing to take on CP + picks. To me, Wall + Beal is a better gamble.

[djFan71]

So just to be clear.. you think swapping Jaylen and Smart for Beal makes us a worse overall team?

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

So you prefer not trading Jaylen for Beal, and rather pay Jaylen his 20ish mil per season and wait until a better player than Beal comes available in hopes that team is willing to trade them for our overpaid young player... Got it.

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

[djFan71]

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

So you prefer not trading Jaylen for Beal, and rather pay Jaylen his 20ish mil per season and wait until a better player than Beal comes available in hopes that team is willing to trade them for our overpaid young player... Got it.

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

Last thing. I would trade Kemba for Beal in a heartbeat. I just hate the pair of them together.

[MagicBagley18]

They're good, but they're not fixing Kemba/Beal/Kanter. Neither is Jaylen.

So just to be clear.. you think swapping Jaylen and Smart for Beal makes us a worse overall team?

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

good points. yes someone may shake loose but who? booker? love? blake? def not 2 way players and most def not defensive guys. KAT-who costs tatum? jokic-not happening. the rest of the big dogs are locked up on new contracts or just traded to new spots. the top guys aren't going anywhere anytime soon. KAT would be that guy and his cost could be 1 step forward 2 back.

when the warriors were in the league with KD, ainge passed on a lot of deals and i agreed with most because the asset cost of getting the player wasn't worth the end result of losing to the warriors in 4 and he was saving for AD. it made no sense trading assets for a chance to be the perennial runner ups.

the league has re-calibrated and while none of those 4 are top 7 talent collectively they would be near if not the top in the league with stevens coaching and that's not counting on tatum who could still be that superstar and he would still be on the roster to dangle for that top 5 mvp talent if they ever become available.

in the past few seasons we have seen PG traded, kawhi traded, ad traded, and for different reasons like fit (jimmy butler) or headcases (boogie and again butler lol) ainge passed and we gambled on kyrie who didn't wanna be here. i don't think we should just keep passing on very good players just because they aren't the mvp caliber guys and i also think acquiring players who actually wanna be here should matter also.

[Froob]

Looks like I spoke AD leaving into existence. He’s creaked the door open from his recent interview with Rachel Nichols.

Let the tampering begin. Heat, Celts, Warriors and Clippers should be all over him this season.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Looks like I spoke AD leaving into existence. He’s creaked the door open from his recent interview with Rachel Nichols.

Let the tampering begin. Heat, Celts, Warriors and Clippers should be all over him this season.

Did he really? Can you imagine if the Lakers gave up all that and it turns out to be a one year *rental*? It would go down as the worst personnel move in the history of the league.

[zoyathedestroya]

Looks like I spoke AD leaving into existence. He’s creaked the door open from his recent interview with Rachel Nichols.

Let the tampering begin. Heat, Celts, Warriors and Clippers should be all over him this season.

FWIW, I think it was the right response. Whatever he's feeling/thinking now about his long-term plans, he doesn't have to broadcast in public. Probably learned his lesson from Kyrie lol.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Haven’t been following for a couple of days- the latest rumor is Chris Paul to the Heat? For what salary?

[djFan71]

So just to be clear.. you think swapping Jaylen and Smart for Beal makes us a worse overall team?

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

good points. yes someone may shake loose but who? booker? love? blake? def not 2 way players and most def not defensive guys. KAT-who costs tatum? jokic-not happening. the rest of the big dogs are locked up on new contracts or just traded to new spots. the top guys aren't going anywhere anytime soon. KAT would be that guy and his cost could be 1 step forward 2 back.

when the warriors were in the league with KD, ainge passed on a lot of deals and i agreed with most because the asset cost of getting the player wasn't worth the end result of losing to the warriors in 4 and he was saving for AD. it made no sense trading assets for a chance to be the perennial runner ups.

the league has re-calibrated and while none of those 4 are top 7 talent collectively they would be near if not the top in the league with stevens coaching and that's not counting on tatum who could still be that superstar and he would still be on the roster to dangle for that top 5 mvp talent if they ever become available.

in the past few seasons we have saw PG traded, kawhi traded, ad traded, and for different reasons like fit (jimmy butler) or headcases (boogie and again butler lol) ainge passed and we gambled on kyrie who didn't wanna be here. i don't think we should just keep passing on very good players just because they aren't the mvp caliber guys and i also think acquiring players who actually wanna be here should matter also.

Who knows? Someone will bust out, someone will be unhappy, they always do. Nobody thought PG or Russ were available a few weeks ago. Nobody thought Siakam would be a star last summer, etc.

I agree you can't pass on everyone, and am not advocating that. I'd do smaller trades, if anything. But I don't think we can keep ignoring fit, either. Since we signed Kemba (who I wouldn't have), I don't think we can trade for Beal, too. If we hadn't signed Kemba, I would have been all about trading for Beal. Smart, Beal, Tatum, Hayward, Williams with NAW, Clarke, Theis, Ed Davis, etc? Sign me up. But with our current squad, I'm passing.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Looks like I spoke AD leaving into existence. He’s creaked the door open from his recent interview with Rachel Nichols.

Let the tampering begin. Heat, Celts, Warriors and Clippers should be all over him this season.

FWIW, I think it was the right response. Whatever he's feeling/thinking now about his long-term plans, he doesn't have to broadcast in public. Probably learned his lesson from Kyrie lol.

You force a trade, you use all of your leverage to bend the entire league to your will, you take Boston out of the running, it’s Lakers or bust, and then even before training camp you come out with an “Ask me July 1st”?

[Edug27]

No, but I don't think it's as much better as you think it is either. It's redundant offensive skills with nobody to do the dirty work. Not saying Smart/Jaylen is some nirvana team. But, mainly, I don't see Kemba & Beal as the right platform to build a contender around. I would rather use those trade pieces for another player. TBD who that is, but I don't buy the idea that nobody else will shake loose. (Or that Beal is actually loose for that price).

So you prefer not trading Jaylen for Beal, and rather pay Jaylen his 20ish mil per season and wait until a better player than Beal comes available in hopes that team is willing to trade them for our overpaid young player... Got it.

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

My whole point is - IF Beal comes available, you offer Jaylen, Smart, and whatever picks make sense. If that's not enough, then move on. If it is enough, then you do the deal 10 times out of 10. Mainly because I think Beal is a better player than Jaylen will be, makes us a much better team, and once you pay Jaylen next summer, he won't be as easy to move or as attractive an asset going forward. The things Smart brings to the table in his limited minutes are easier to replace than what Beal offers. Beal is a big time scorer. Kemba, Beal and Tatum is an ideal fit together. We will just agree to disagree and move on.

[djFan71]

So you prefer not trading Jaylen for Beal, and rather pay Jaylen his 20ish mil per season and wait until a better player than Beal comes available in hopes that team is willing to trade them for our overpaid young player... Got it.

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

My whole point is - IF Beal comes available, you offer Jaylen, Smart, and whatever picks make sense. If that's not enough, then move on. If it is enough, then you do the deal 10 times out of 10. Mainly because I think Beal is a better player than Jaylen will be, makes us a much better team, and once you pay Jaylen next summer, he won't be as easy to move or as attractive an asset going forward. The things Smart brings to the table in his limited minutes are easier to replace than what Beal offers. Beal is a big time scorer. Kemba, Beal and Tatum is an ideal fit together. We will just agree to disagree and move on.

Picks is a little vague. Just to be clear before we move on, would you do Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick, BOS 2022?

[Edug27]

So you prefer not trading Jaylen for Beal, and rather pay Jaylen his 20ish mil per season and wait until a better player than Beal comes available in hopes that team is willing to trade them for our overpaid young player... Got it.

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

Last thing. I would trade Kemba for Beal in a heartbeat. I just hate the pair of them together.

Yea.. No reply to this (other than letting you know I have no reply of course)

[djFan71]

C'mon man, you're not even trying here. If I play your way, "so you feel Beal is the only player in the entire league that will make the Celtics contenders"?

You're not getting Beal for just Jaylen and Smart. It would take them, MEM pick and probably another Cs first. You don't think you can flip that package for ANY other player that would fit better? I'm not at all opposed to trading Jaylen, or anyone. I am opposed to trading that entire package for Beal. Why is that so hard to understand? Other players to target would be the one's that have been discussed ad nauseum - Capela, Sabonis, Turner, Isaac, Gordon, or others. No, before you ask, I don't think they're better than Beal. None of them. But, they would come a lot cheaper (some might even return an asset back) and fit a lot better, imo. Then you still have other assets remaining.

Last thing. I would trade Kemba for Beal in a heartbeat. I just hate the pair of them together.

Yea.. No reply to this (other than letting you know I have no reply of course)

How very superior of you.