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Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Games 1 - 4)

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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next: Thurs, July 17, 9:00PM) 

Post#1861 » by redslastlaugh » Fri Jul 18, 2025 10:33 pm

The best value in the NBA is drafting a good player, picked late first or second round and signing him to a rookie scale contract. This gives the team 2 yrs to evaluate the player, a 3rd year team option, a fourth yr team option, and a strong negotiating position to retain the player for the next 4-5 yrs after that through restricted free agency rules.

If you draft a stinker and end up waiving him in the second year, this is such a miniscule price to pay for the possibility you draft a hit. You look at Desmond Bane (picked 30) or Toni Kukoc (picked 29) or Derek Fisher (picked 24) and it's hard to match the value from a good pick in that range by just signing an end of the bench type of FA like a Noah Vonleh or Broderic Thomas or whoever is available for the minimum.

Perhaps, to some, the idea that you get stuck with a bust and have to carry the dead weight on the 15 man roster for two years is a big risk, but to me the risk:reward is strongly in favor of making some draft picks in the 20-40 pick range and just signing your selections.

Hal14 wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:
flintsky21 wrote:
I would've given Brad a pass on that, but he traded down from the 32nd pick. Can't keep giving Brad the benefit of the doubt for late 2nd rounders not working out when he regularly trades down or out from higher draft positions.


Yeah the reason you don't trade down from 32 to 46 is because 46 is less likely to be a good player.

Picks in the 46-60 range are absolutely a lottery ticket. Most of them do not pan out.

Yes, obviously picks in the 32-45 range have a slightly higher hit rate. But even then, the hit rate in that range overall is very low..probably not much higher than the hit rate of a pick at 46 so it makes more sense to trade back, pick up 3 additional 2nd rounders (these picks are lottery tickets so by acquiring 3 additional 2nd rounders you increase your chances of winning the lottery by having 3 extra lottery tickets).

Not to mention a pick at 32 (when we already had pick 28)..that's 2 guys you're drafting in the top 32 which is more $..you can pay a guy much less $ who you draft at 46 than you can the guy drafted at 32.

32 is gonna be expecting a guaranteed 4 year rookie contract. Something you're probably not going to want to offer a player with such low odds of that player working out..especially when you're already giving that 4 year contract and guaranteed money to the player you take at 28.

Not to mention you also have Walsh, Scheierman and JD on the roster..hard to find enough playing time for all of these guys in addition to picks 28 and 32 for them to all actually succeed on your team, especially since we're a team that is trying to win. Sure, this is a bridge year but we still have good players like JB, Hauser, Pritchard, white which makes it hard to give tons of playing time to all of these unproven rookies and it's only a 1 year bridge year.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next: Thurs, July 17, 9:00PM) 

Post#1862 » by winsomme2 » Fri Jul 18, 2025 11:18 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:The best value in the NBA is drafting a good player, picked late first or second round and signing him to a rookie scale contract. This gives the team 2 yrs to evaluate the player, a 3rd year team option, a fourth yr team option, and a strong negotiating position to retain the player for the next 4-5 yrs after that through restricted free agency rules.

If you draft a stinker and end up waiving him in the second year, this is such a miniscule price to pay for the possibility you draft a hit. You look at Desmond Bane (picked 30) or Toni Kukoc (picked 29) or Derek Fisher (picked 24) and it's hard to match the value from a good pick in that range by just signing an end of the bench type of FA like a Noah Vonleh or Broderic Thomas or whoever is available for the minimum.

Perhaps, to some, the idea that you get stuck with a bust and have to carry the dead weight on the 15 man roster for two years is a big risk, but to me the risk:reward is strongly in favor of making some draft picks in the 20-40 pick range and just signing your selections.

Hal14 wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:
Yeah the reason you don't trade down from 32 to 46 is because 46 is less likely to be a good player.

Picks in the 46-60 range are absolutely a lottery ticket. Most of them do not pan out.

Yes, obviously picks in the 32-45 range have a slightly higher hit rate. But even then, the hit rate in that range overall is very low..probably not much higher than the hit rate of a pick at 46 so it makes more sense to trade back, pick up 3 additional 2nd rounders (these picks are lottery tickets so by acquiring 3 additional 2nd rounders you increase your chances of winning the lottery by having 3 extra lottery tickets).

Not to mention a pick at 32 (when we already had pick 28)..that's 2 guys you're drafting in the top 32 which is more $..you can pay a guy much less $ who you draft at 46 than you can the guy drafted at 32.

32 is gonna be expecting a guaranteed 4 year rookie contract. Something you're probably not going to want to offer a player with such low odds of that player working out..especially when you're already giving that 4 year contract and guaranteed money to the player you take at 28.

Not to mention you also have Walsh, Scheierman and JD on the roster..hard to find enough playing time for all of these guys in addition to picks 28 and 32 for them to all actually succeed on your team, especially since we're a team that is trying to win. Sure, this is a bridge year but we still have good players like JB, Hauser, Pritchard, white which makes it hard to give tons of playing time to all of these unproven rookies and it's only a 1 year bridge year.


Very much agree. I think picks are even more valuable for the Cs now in our current situation because we have so few avenues to add talent.

OKC is basically the model right now because Presti is consistently picking players that turn into NBA talent.

I get what Hal is saying and agree that the overall percentage of players who hit is low but I also don’t think you can simply chalk it up to luck either because there are starting level players picked every year that would be hugely helpful to our team and like you said are on great contracts.

I don’t want to be a hindsight critic but I think if you follow the NBA draft threads here, a lot of people are really good at identifying and breaking down the talent available, so it’s not really hindsight when the Cs go a different direction or trade down, etc… many have been saying it right up to when the picks were made.

For instance, I think it’s totally fair to criticize Brad for not taking Fleming at 28 because we know they really liked him and we desperately need some rim protection.

Hugo was a real gamble at a position that was much less of a need and way easier to fill. Big men are a complete scarcity. I don’t think that’s a hindsight criticism.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1863 » by Curmudgeon » Fri Jul 18, 2025 11:44 pm

Meh. Fleming averaged 5 ppg as a freshman and 10 ppg as a sophomore. And he missed the first two games of Summer league with a bad knee. Let's not get too excited.

I think Bassey can get more money somewhere else, for example Brooklyn, which has a bunch of guards and small forwards and no backup for Claxton.

But Lofton is worth the veterans' minimum IMHO. I would trust him with a game on the line far, far more than I would trust Walsh or Scheierman. Maybe Garza and Minot turn out to be hidden gems, but maybe not. And if Lofton turns into the next Jared Sullinger, a one year deal with a team option/qualifying offer in year 2 isn't a huge gamble.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1864 » by Hal14 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 1:51 pm

Maluach tries the Kornet Contest but it seems like he has to work on it.

Leaves his man open to get the rebound lol

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1/11/24 The birth of a new Hal. From now on being less combative, avoiding confrontation - like Switzerland :)
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1865 » by winsomme2 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:22 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Meh. Fleming averaged 5 ppg as a freshman and 10 ppg as a sophomore. And he missed the first two games of Summer league with a bad knee. Let's not get too excited.

I think Bassey can get more money somewhere else, for example Brooklyn, which has a bunch of guards and small forwards and no backup for Claxton.

But Lofton is worth the veterans' minimum IMHO. I would trust him with a game on the line far, far more than I would trust Walsh or Scheierman. Maybe Garza and Minot turn out to be hidden gems, but maybe not. And if Lofton turns into the next Jared Sullinger, a one year deal with a team option/qualifying offer in year 2 isn't a huge gamble.



Oh for sure. Fleming could totally flame out and Hugo could flourish. I just think it's a fair criticism and not hindsight given the discussion leading into the draft.

Whereas it wouldn't IMO be fair to complain that Brad didn't take Koby Brea because most people were down on him as a prospect predraft.

Personally, I was thinking we should have taken McNeeley. Not so much because he was going to break out like he has (definitely didn't see that coming) but I thought he would have value having dropped to get to us and also would make it more possible to trade Hauser because he was more fitting the role than say a Scheierman...
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1867 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Jul 19, 2025 2:37 pm

I'm a proponent of drafting the best player available. You can worry about fit later. I thought the two best players available at that point were Gonzalez and Noah Penda, although I was also higher on Maxime Raynaud than most other people. I was surprised when Raynaud slipped into the 40's.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1868 » by winsomme2 » Sat Jul 19, 2025 3:00 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I'm a proponent of drafting the best player available. You can worry about fit later. I thought the two best players available at that point were Gonzalez and Noah Penda, although I was also higher on Maxime Raynaud than most other people. I was surprised when Raynaud slipped into the 40's.


I definitely feel that way for the top of the draft. As the draft goes on I think it’s fair to start including positional value and need as well.

Hugo really wasn’t on my wish list because the one skill I really need him to have is ball handling and I couldn’t tell from the footage available if he was a good ball handler or not. Honestly I still can’t tell. SL is too chaotic.

Penda I also wasn’t sure on but Raynaud I liked a lot because of his ability to score inside and outside. I think he’s got a good career ahead of him. He reminds me of a Santi Aldama.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1869 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Jul 19, 2025 3:18 pm

winsomme2 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:I'm a proponent of drafting the best player available. You can worry about fit later. I thought the two best players available at that point were Gonzalez and Noah Penda, although I was also higher on Maxime Raynaud than most other people. I was surprised when Raynaud slipped into the 40's.


I definitely feel that way for the top of the draft. As the draft goes on I think it’s fair to start including positional value and need as well.

Hugo really wasn’t on my wish list because the one skill I really need him to have is ball handling and I couldn’t tell from the footage available if he was a good ball handler or not. Honestly I still can’t tell. SL is too chaotic.

Penda I also wasn’t sure on but Raynaud I liked a lot because of his ability to score inside and outside. I think he’s got a good career ahead of him. He reminds me of a Santi Aldama.


After pick 15 I prefer players who do one thing really well: rebound, shoot, pass, defend on the ball, whatever. I also prefer a high BBIQ to sheer athleticism.

People play games with the notion of "ceiling." When a player has reached his ceiling, that's bad. But it's better than a 19 year-old with a higher ceiling who never gets close, and the vast majority do not. NBA GMs should do a better job of evaluating how badly a player wants to be good, as opposed to the ones who are just happy to get that initial contract.
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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Next Game: 6PM, Sun, July 20) 

Post#1870 » by Parliament10 » Sun Jul 20, 2025 12:25 am

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Re: Summer League 2025, Multi-Game Thread – (Games 1 - 4) 

Post#1871 » by Parliament10 » Sun Jul 20, 2025 1:01 am

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