Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[Andrew McCeltic]

At this point, though, those BKN picks - even just one - have more value to us where we are in team-building than Butler - so if we're giving one away to add him, we'd need more value than Butler coming back in return.

So a team with IT and Al Horford should be waiting it out? How does that make any sense? One is 30, the other 27.

And no, Jimmy G Buckets>>>Value of any draft pick

Not waiting it out, but maximizing the value of our assets and internal development.

What's interesting to me, still, is that if Cleveland offered Love for Horford, I'm not sure anyone involved - Boston, Love, or Al - would say no.

John Wall is another guy I'd love to get - something like IT/Crowder for Wall, Bradley/Amir/1st(s) for Butler. The challenge, though, still becomes upgrading the front court. Another reason Noel or Okafor would be great gains, at least as trade assets.

[cellar-door]

At this point, though, those BKN picks - even just one - have more value to us where we are in team-building than Butler - so if we're giving one away to add him, we'd need more value than Butler coming back in return.

Huh?
Where do you think we are in team building?
We have a 30 year old Center on a 3+1 deal
We have a 27 year old PG on a 2 year deal well below market.
We have a 26 year old SG on a 2 year deal well below market
We have a 26 year old SF on a 4 year deal below market
We have a PG on the 2nd to last year of his rookie deal.

That is our current 5 best players. Now probably 1 maybe 2 of them would go out in a Butler deal, but that is the core of the team right now. And all of them will be less valuable (and more expensive) by the time the 2018 Nets pick is ready to continue.

If you want to argue that the core is the 2 Nets picks and Brown, that's fine, but it isn't really reasonable, it's aiming to be good in 2021 or something and just burning the entirety of the Horford/Bradley/IT window with nothing to show for it. This roster is pretty clearly built with the intention of at least starting a major move for contention in the next 2 years.

My personal thought is you pick 1 of Bradley/IT and move him now for a star locked up more than 2 years probably with the Brooklyn 18 (and maybe Crowder or Brown).
My preference is IT (I think his defense is hard to build around, and his physical profile is one that doesn't usually survive past 30 so I wouldn't want to pay him what he'll get in FA, also I think he gets the most back) but it could be Bradley. This lets you improve NOW, and still have the '18 pick and maybe Brown to extend the window beyond Horford's last year.

edit- as I posted this you posted the IT+ for Wall, so I think we're generally on the same page, you just aren't sold on Butler (I think he's better than Wall for example and better to build around).

[Andrew McCeltic]

At this point, though, those BKN picks - even just one - have more value to us where we are in team-building than Butler - so if we're giving one away to add him, we'd need more value than Butler coming back in return.

Huh?
Where do you think we are in team building?
We have a 30 year old Center on a 3+1 deal
We have a 27 year old PG on a 2 year deal well below market.
We have a 26 year old SG on a 2 year deal well below market
We have a 26 year old SF on a 4 year deal below market
We have a PG on the 2nd to last year of his rookie deal.

That is our current 5 best players. Now probably 1 maybe 2 of them would go out in a Butler deal, but that is the core of the team right now. And all of them will be less valuable (and more expensive) by the time the 2018 Nets pick is ready to continue.

If you want to argue that the core is the 2 Nets picks and Brown, that's fine, but it isn't really reasonable, it's aiming to be good in 2021 or something and just burning the entirety of the Horford/Bradley/IT window with nothing to show for it. This roster is pretty clearly built with the intention of at least starting a major move for contention in the next 2 years.

My personal thought is you pick 1 of Bradley/IT and move him now for a star locked up more than 2 years probably with the Brooklyn 18 (and maybe Crowder or Brown).
My preference is IT (I think his defense is hard to build around, and his physical profile is one that doesn't usually survive past 30 so I wouldn't want to pay him what he'll get in FA, also I think he gets the most back) but it could be Bradley. This lets you improve NOW, and still have the '18 pick and maybe Brown to extend the window beyond Horford's last year.

edit- as I posted this you posted the IT+ for Wall, so I think we're generally on the same page, you just aren't sold on Butler (I think he's better than Wall for example and better to build around).

How about something like Zeller/Jerebko/BKN 17 for Butler, IT/Crowder for Wall, Bradley for Noel and the LA pick?

Wall/Rozier
Butler/Smart
Brown/Green/Nader/LA 17
Horford/Olynyk/Mickey
Amir/Noel/Zizic

You still have two lotto picks and other 1sts, and Amir, if you want to trade for Hayward, Cousins, Gallo, Ibaka, Hezonja, Paul George, Jabari, Carmelo, Love..

[Andrew McCeltic]

I actually think Bradley, Zeller, 2 non-BKN 1sts could get it done for Chicago, maybe just 1. I debated a Chicago fan on the general board who said I was inventing a narrative because I speculated the Bulls must be motivated sellers for internal reasons.

[chrisab123]

I think Ainge is a lock to stand pat unless he's ripping off a GM by a wide margin. Interesting that they flat out rejected Melo no matter the price. Tells me the strategy is FA or run it back another year

[fallguy]

I think the Bulls will finally tear it down this summer, starting with the front office.

Should you want him, I think Butler (who, as Cave accurately speculates, is not the easiest guy to have on your roster) will be avail then.

[Bulls03]

Butler Wade and Zipser for:

Bradley, Amir, Zeller, Jonas BKN pick and a first

[jmr07019]

I actually think Bradley, Zeller, 2 non-BKN 1sts could get it done for Chicago, maybe just 1. I debated a Chicago fan on the general board who said I was inventing a narrative because I speculated the Bulls must be motivated sellers for internal reasons.

They're motivated but there will be a lot of teams who want Butler especially if all they have to beat is Bradley and 2 late 1sts.

Wouldn't Minni offer lavine Dunn Minni 1st and go with a Wiggins Butler Towns core?

Philly could offer both their pick and LAL pick, have Butler, Embiid and a lot more attractive in FA where they have a ton of room?

Lakers could sell the farm and try and the FA route with 1 star already on the team. Blake and Hayward this offseason George, Westbrook and Cousins next year.

[Bulls03]

Why are you all so hesistsnt to trade a BKN pick for a top 10 player not on an expiring contract?

[Captain_Caveman]

At this point, though, those BKN picks - even just one - have more value to us where we are in team-building than Butler - so if we're giving one away to add him, we'd need more value than Butler coming back in return.

Huh?
Where do you think we are in team building?
We have a 30 year old Center on a 3+1 deal
We have a 27 year old PG on a 2 year deal well below market.
We have a 26 year old SG on a 2 year deal well below market
We have a 26 year old SF on a 4 year deal below market
We have a PG on the 2nd to last year of his rookie deal.

That is our current 5 best players. Now probably 1 maybe 2 of them would go out in a Butler deal, but that is the core of the team right now. And all of them will be less valuable (and more expensive) by the time the 2018 Nets pick is ready to continue.

If you want to argue that the core is the 2 Nets picks and Brown, that's fine, but it isn't really reasonable, it's aiming to be good in 2021 or something and just burning the entirety of the Horford/Bradley/IT window with nothing to show for it. This roster is pretty clearly built with the intention of at least starting a major move for contention in the next 2 years.

My personal thought is you pick 1 of Bradley/IT and move him now for a star locked up more than 2 years probably with the Brooklyn 18 (and maybe Crowder or Brown).
My preference is IT (I think his defense is hard to build around, and his physical profile is one that doesn't usually survive past 30 so I wouldn't want to pay him what he'll get in FA, also I think he gets the most back) but it could be Bradley. This lets you improve NOW, and still have the '18 pick and maybe Brown to extend the window beyond Horford's last year.

edit- as I posted this you posted the IT+ for Wall, so I think we're generally on the same page, you just aren't sold on Butler (I think he's better than Wall for example and better to build around).

Yes and no. The roster is well-poised to make major moves, but above all, they have options. Ainge has had everrrrrry opportunity to deal away his picks, prospects and young players in the last three and a half years years, and he has done so exactly zero times with any player of significance. We even have a couple of mid-1st round draft and stashes that aren't even on our team yet.

If Ainge wants to develop elite prospects and other young players in a winning, playoff culture and wait for 2021, he can absolutely do that, especially if the alternative is overpaying for a 3rd tier star like Butler.

I'd argue that is is likely his best play from here, actually. It will have no impact on our ability to make major moves down the line if and when they present themselves at fair value, and will actually make it easier for us to retain guys like IT and Bradley in the meantime, greatly increasing their trade value from where it is right now.

Guys like Horford and IT have us well-positioned for the kill shot, but if people think their presence is going to dictate Ainge's direction by itself or force his hand in any way, I don't think they have been paying good attention.

JMO.

[darrendaye]

Why are you all so hesistsnt to trade a BKN pick for a top 10 player not on an expiring contract?

Because you have a chance to get a 19 year old, top 25 player by his 3rd year, still on his rookie contract.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I actually think Bradley, Zeller, 2 non-BKN 1sts could get it done for Chicago, maybe just 1. I debated a Chicago fan on the general board who said I was inventing a narrative because I speculated the Bulls must be motivated sellers for internal reasons.

They're motivated but there will be a lot of teams who want Butler especially if all they have to beat is Bradley and 2 late 1sts.

Wouldn't Minni offer lavine Dunn Minni 1st and go with a Wiggins Butler Towns core?

Philly could offer both their pick and LAL pick, have Butler, Embiid and a lot more attractive in FA where they have a ton of room?

Lakers could sell the farm and try and the FA route with 1 star already on the team. Blake and Hayward this offseason George, Westbrook and Cousins next year.

I could see Philly doing something around Okafor and picks, sure. LA less likely. Lavine, Dunn and a pick is an overpay. We're in a weird moment - by luck and patience, we have LA, Philly, Minnesota and Boston hoarding more lotto picks or draftees with promise than is usually the case. It's a seller's market in that respect - teams hoping to start a rebuild with momentum have to look there.

[chrisab123]

Why are you all so hesistsnt to trade a BKN pick for a top 10 player not on an expiring contract?

Because you have a chance to get a 19 year old, top 25 player by his 3rd year, still on his rookie contract.

I'd personally pull the trigger on a BRK 17 and filler for Butler but that's just me. Dude is on a great contract.

[Captain_Caveman]

Why are you all so hesistsnt to trade a BKN pick for a top 10 player not on an expiring contract?

Because (a) we don't need to, and (b) it doesn't put us over the top right now.

The Celts have an excellent chance to be a contending team someday if they just stand pat and stay patient. Any major move we make has to beat that baseline. While it is hard to win a ring in this league, it is asinine to give up a chance a future championship team just to make a move that bumps us from 6th best to 3rd best while removing that championship possibility.

We are a young 50-55 win that is in the process of adding two of three top 3-5 picks over a 3-year period. That's amazing! We have the luxury of staying patient and making prudent choices. Overpaying for Butler at the peak of his value does not do that. You only do that if it puts you above the Warriors or on a path to be above the Warriors in the near-term, not to get a "top 10 player" or some other nonsense.

Bulls 100% do not have the same luxury of staying patient. They built a veteran team with a .500 ceiling, that is wholly dependent on giving Butler more usage than his knees can handle. And even that is falling apart at the seams. Whether you trade him to us or another team, his value can only go down. In the meantime, you are killing the value of your own lottery picks, and delaying the inevitable rebuild that is coming your way.

We'll wait, thank you very much. Wish you luck in the meantime, because you guys are gonna need a lot of it.

[Bulls03]

Why are you all so hesistsnt to trade a BKN pick for a top 10 player not on an expiring contract?

Because (a) we don't need to, and (b) it doesn't put us over the top right now.

The Celts have an excellent chance to be a contending team someday if they just stand pat and stay patient. Any major move we make has to beat that baseline. While it is hard to win a ring in this league, it is asinine to give up a chance a future championship team just to make a move that bumps us from 6th best to 3rd best while removing that championship possibility.

We are a young 50-55 win that is in the process of adding two of three top 3-5 picks over a 3-year period. That's amazing! We have the luxury of staying patient and making prudent choices. Overpaying for Butler at the peak of his value does not do that. You only do that if it puts you above the Warriors or on a path to be above the Warriors in the near-term, not to get a "top 10 player" or some other nonsense.

Bulls 100% do not have the same luxury of staying patient. They built a veteran team with a .500 ceiling, that is wholly dependent on giving Butler more usage than his knees can handle. And even that is falling apart at the seams. Whether you trade him to us or another team, his value can only go down. In the meantime, you are killing the value of your own lottery picks, and delaying the inevitable rebuild that is coming your way.

We'll wait, thank you very much. Wish you luck in the meantime, because you guys are gonna need a lot of it.

You guys would get by the Cavs if we sent Jimmy and Wade.

[GoCeltics123]

Butler Wade and Zipser for:

Bradley, Amir, Zeller, Jonas BKN pick and a first

Done

Those who don't agree to this trade are stupid

[OFWGKTA]

Butler Wade and Zipser for:

Bradley, Amir, Zeller, Jonas BKN pick and a first

Done

Those who don't agree to this trade are stupid

I'd try to route Wade and Amir to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson somehow

IT/Smart
Jimmy/Smart
Crowder/Brown/Green
Horford/Crowder/Kelly
Thompson/Horford/Kelly

[Bulls03]

Butler Wade and Zipser for:

Bradley, Amir, Zeller, Jonas BKN pick and a first

Done

Those who don't agree to this trade are stupid

Thomas/Rozier
Wade/Smart
Butler/Brown
Crowder/olynyk
Horford/Sanders

[GoCeltics123]

Butler Wade and Zipser for:

Bradley, Amir, Zeller, Jonas BKN pick and a first

Done

Those who don't agree to this trade are stupid

Thomas/Rozier
Wade/Smart
Butler/Brown
Crowder/olynyk
Horford/Sanders

Hope you're right on the bolded part.

Ainge would need to add more size. However, that's a damn good team I think.

[Bulls03]

Done

Those who don't agree to this trade are stupid

Thomas/Rozier
Wade/Smart
Butler/Brown
Crowder/olynyk
Horford/Sanders

Hope you're right on the bolded part.

Ainge would need to add more size. However, that's a damn good team I think.

Best team in the East with guys to make it real hard on the Warriors. That's a legit contender. You'll want Wade when you play LeBron for sure.