Gordon Hayward Thread

[Celts17Pride]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

[FlatearthZorro]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Cap will definitely take a hit, which imo might result in a Hayward trade. I still believe in him, but I think that he just hasn't had any luck while playing for us.

[hugepatsfan]

What "younger assets" do people think we could get for Hayward?

1) He's a very good, not great player. Or great not elite. Whatever you want to term it as. Point is, not a "franchise" player.
2) He's way overpaid. Makes it difficult for a team to match salaries without sending over too many players.
3) He's only signed for one year. Could end up a rental.
4) He'll play next year at age 30 and then go into FA at age 31. So not even sure every team would want to extend him for too much.

Ultimately, I think any return for Hayward just wouldn't be worth it. Remember, we're a team trying to win a title and Hayward is a big part of our roster. I don't think the quality of "younger assets" we could get for him would be worth moving him even if we're only keeping him as a rental.

[djFan71]

That's fair. Although it seems he likes for that 2nd ballhandler to be a bigger one, a hybrid if you will, that can still switch up. He likes long, strong wings that can switch the traditional 2-4 spots on defense so size and wingspan is a thing for him. I don't disagree that Hayward costs too much. I think he's likely to resign at a lower amount moving forward to stay so that should help. Ignore the pricetag though for a second. His skillset is uniquely different from Jayson and Jaylen's which is what makes him an excellent complement to them, much like Smart is a complement. If you were to replace Hayward, I would want a player with that same skillset.

I would get crucified for this opinion, but from a basketball standpoint, I'd rather have a starting lineup of Hayward-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Theis/C replacement. Ramp up Gordon's scoring (who's been more efficient all over the floor) to replace Kemba's. Defensively, you have a bigger team overall that can switch 1 thru 5 basically. On offense, you have two really good ballhandlers in Smart and Hayward. Tatum is growing into one too soon enough.

I just don't think Ainge will trade Kemba (I don't want to trade Kemba either) after just signing him last summer. So my idea is moot. If they get into a financial crunch and Hayward is looking to get paid, he's clearly the one to go.

One of my problems with the signing of Kemba was that I think it caps you as a team. Our problem right now is not that Hayward is our 4th option (actually, that's no even a problem. That's better than 95% of the league). The problem is our 1A and 1B are Walker and a still young Tatum. We are not contending (jury still out but we are not Bucks, LAL teams level) because we don't have depth but because our top end talent just isn't enought.

That's been the problem with Portland every year. Yeah, you guys are awesome as a team. But with Lillard and McCollum your ceiling is capped, specially defensively.

I play a lot of 2K MyLeague and usually trade Kemba whenever I have the possibility (draft night). The last two years of that contract are bad given the defensive problems he gives you.

But in real life Kemba is an awesome human being, a great leader and example for the youngsters, a cheerful input into the locker room and while he wasn't greatly efficient this year you just can't trade him like that.

That's why letting Hayward walk makes no sense whatsoever. You are loosing that cap space, and we are not contending right now with our 1A and 1B. Hayward's game is going to age very gracefully. He was horrible finishing in "athletic" manners at the rim and still was able to shot 75% in that area (for reference: Brown 71%, Tatum 61%, LeBron 72%, Giannis 76%).
He was consistently top 30 in all advanced metrics (VORP, BPM, WS, OWS, OBPM, TS%).

The only problem with Hayward I have right now is that the leg injury really **** him up mentally and he crunches in big situations or when he starts games slow. He's totaly over-aware of himself and will get down on himself if he misses two shots or something alike.

Otherwise he was our 2nd best player along with Kembla this season, only dethroned because Tatum is god and he should make an all-defensive team this year and will probably be All-Nba the next one.

Yep, this is why I was against it. Love Kemba, seems like a great dude, great player. Just not truly elite and on the downswing.

[Celts17Pride]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Cap will definitely take a hit, which imo might result in a Hayward trade. I still believe in him, but I think that he just hasn't had any luck while playing for us.

Then again, because of the league wide cap situation the Celtics may have no choice but to keep Hayward

[Celts17Pride]

What "younger assets" do people think we could get for Hayward?

1) He's a very good, not great player. Or great not elite. Whatever you want to term it as. Point is, not a "franchise" player.
2) He's way overpaid. Makes it difficult for a team to match salaries without sending over too many players.
3) He's only signed for one year. Could end up a rental.
4) He'll play next year at age 30 and then go into FA at age 31. So not even sure every team would want to extend him for too much.

Ultimately, I think any return for Hayward just wouldn't be worth it. Remember, we're a team trying to win a title and Hayward is a big part of our roster. I don't think the quality of "younger assets" we could get for him would be worth moving him even if we're only keeping him as a rental.

Think Rondo trade to Dallas

[captain green]

Unfortunately injury got him they way of Mike Dunleavy and wally szczerbiak. Although I'll say he was better than both but now he isn't worth the money. I was excited when we landed him but he is a role player think late grant hill. Still good enough to make a dent but age and price is to high.

[bucknersrevenge]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Cap will definitely take a hit, which imo might result in a Hayward trade. I still believe in him, but I think that he just hasn't had any luck while playing for us.

Then again, because of the league wide cap situation the Celtics may have no choice but to keep Hayward

There's a 3rd option now that has to be added to the mix now as well. Gordon opts in, plays out his last year, and then leaves. We attempt to replace him with an MLE FA and internal development. Because of the losses the league has taken we can't assume that Wyc will be okay with resigning Gordon at cost or trading him for salary equivalent players who keep the same cost here. It's not a favorable option but that conversation has to be had now. That's why I said if Gordon opts in on this deal, I think next year is his last in Boston inevitably. With the money Walker, JB, and soon Tatum will be making, add in Smart, and maybe Theis, how do you rationalize paying the 4th option on your team $20+M?

[SmartWentCrazy]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Assuming they smooth any cap drop and the hit isnt too dramatic, I think I got it:

Suns get: Hayward
Magic get: Oubre
Celtics: Aaron Gordon

Why for Suns: Believe they should have the cap space to absorb the salary difference between Hayward and Oubre. If they don’t, they can include Kaminsky or NG Okobo/decline Diallo. They get an upgrade in talent and production for a year in an attempt to finally make the playoffs— Rubio/Booker/Hayward/Bridges/Ayton is a solid blend of vets and young guys and should be able to take that next step into the playoffs. Oubre and Hayward expired contractually at the same time and I’d guess their next contracts aren't that far apart given their ages.

Why for Magic: they get a young wing to balance their roster [with Okeke coming next year, they have way too many 4’s with Gordon and Isaac]. Oubre is a great fit age wise. If they need a pick, Boston can toss one their way.

Why for Celtics: save 16M+ from salary cap [and getting under the tax] while adding a player who fits both age and skill wise with a Smart-Brown-Tatum core. A ‘death lineup’ of Kemba-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Gordon would be fun.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Assuming they smooth any cap drop and the hit isnt too dramatic, I think I got it:

Suns get: Hayward
Magic get: Oubre
Celtics: Aaron Gordon

Why for Suns: Believe they should have the cap space to absorb the salary difference between Hayward and Oubre. If they don’t, they can include Kaminsky or NG Okobo/decline Diallo. They get an upgrade in talent and production for a year in an attempt to finally make the playoffs— Rubio/Booker/Hayward/Bridges/Ayton is a solid blend of vets and young guys and should be able to take that next step into the playoffs. Oubre and Hayward expired contractually at the same time and I’d guess their next contracts aren't that far apart given their ages.

Why for Magic: they get a young wing to balance their roster [with Okeke coming next year, they have way too many 4’s with Gordon and Isaac]. Oubre is a great fit age wise. If they need a pick, Boston can toss one their way.

Why for Celtics: save 16M+ from salary cap [and getting under the tax] while adding a player who fits both age and skill wise with a Smart-Brown-Tatum core. A ‘death lineup’ of Kemba-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Gordon would be fun.

Could also do a Gordon+Aminu for Hayward deal, with Aminu dumped on a third team [Atl?] for a pick from Bos and Orlando.

[Skybox]

Gordon Hayward will be playing for someone else next year in my opinion. Ainge will trade him to get younger assets to go with Tatum, Brown, Smart core in my opinion.

Assuming they smooth any cap drop and the hit isnt too dramatic, I think I got it:

Suns get: Hayward
Magic get: Oubre
Celtics: Aaron Gordon

Why for Suns: Believe they should have the cap space to absorb the salary difference between Hayward and Oubre. If they don’t, they can include Kaminsky or NG Okobo/decline Diallo. They get an upgrade in talent and production for a year in an attempt to finally make the playoffs— Rubio/Booker/Hayward/Bridges/Ayton is a solid blend of vets and young guys and should be able to take that next step into the playoffs. Oubre and Hayward expired contractually at the same time and I’d guess their next contracts aren't that far apart given their ages.

Why for Magic: they get a young wing to balance their roster [with Okeke coming next year, they have way too many 4’s with Gordon and Isaac]. Oubre is a great fit age wise. If they need a pick, Boston can toss one their way.

Why for Celtics: save 16M+ from salary cap [and getting under the tax] while adding a player who fits both age and skill wise with a Smart-Brown-Tatum core. A ‘death lineup’ of Kemba-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Gordon would be fun.

Could also do a Gordon+Aminu for Hayward deal, with Aminu dumped on a third team [Atl?] for a pick from Bos and Orlando.

ORL fan here...I think a swap of Gordons makes a lot of sense if the dollars can get worked out to provide some relief for BOS and not kill ORL (re-signing GH)...AG would be awesome in BOS without the confusing offensive role and hierarchy. Hayward, if he can stay healthy would get a lot of offensive freedom and provide some leadership as a secondary playmaker to Fultz and a much needed vet presence.

[StojkoVrankovic]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

[Homerclease]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

Agreed. I don’t think Hayward is going anywhere for quite some time. They need his playmaking on the wing as that’s not Brown nor Tatums strong suit and likely never will be. The Celtics just play better with Hayward on the court. They should be looking at extension here tbh. The guy they should be looking to move on from in the next year or so and I hate to say it because he’s such a good guy is Kemba Walker.

[bucknersrevenge]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

I don't think that's the reason we're trading Hayward in this scenario.

[Parliament10]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

Not that I advocate this specific trade. But Aaron Gordon is a 3-4, whereas Gordon Hayward is a 2-3.
It's somewhat of a different position.

I think that that the big thing is the money.
And, we need a more bona fide PF.

[Parliament10]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

Agreed. I don’t think Hayward is going anywhere for quite some time. They need his playmaking on the wing as that’s not Brown nor Tatums strong suit and likely never will be. The Celtics just play better with Hayward on the court. They should be looking at extension here tbh. The guy they should be looking to move on from in the next year or so and I hate to say it because he’s such a good guy is Kemba Walker.

Smart can fulfill Hayward's playmaking.
Kemba - Smart - Brown - Tatum - Theis

Or, Brown and Tatum can share the secondary ballhandler duties; by committee, so to speak.
Kemba - Brown - Tatum - Gordon - Theis

[Curmudgeon]

Hayward is a nice piece but he's too expensive. And you would never get Aaron Gordon for him. You might get Blake Griffin but then the Celtics would be in luxury tax hell for years to come, and Griffin is even more of an injury risk.

You could offer him to Indiana for Turner but the Pacers would have to add salary and I don't think they would want to do that.

So the most likely scenario is that he opts in and then signs a smaller deal-- either with the Celtics or another team that becomes enamored, like the Sixers were with Horford.

[SmartWentCrazy]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

I don't think that's the reason we're trading Hayward in this scenario.

Yep— you deal him because our 140M+ in projected salary next season is crushing with a lower tax threshold. 120M is much more manageable.

Also, Gordon is a 4/5. Hayward is a 3/4. They dont play the same position.

[Parliament10]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

I don't think that's the reason we're trading Hayward in this scenario.

Yep— you deal him because our 140M+ in projected salary next season is crushing with a lower tax threshold. 120M is much more manageable.

Also, Gordon is a 4/5. Hayward is a 3/4. They dont play the same position.

I agree that Hayward needs to go, more becuase of the money. In addition to being in a redundant position.
But, Aaron Gordon is actually a 3-4 (SF/PF), and Gordon Hayward is a 2-3 (SG/SF), right?

[Skybox]

So we trade Gordon because we already have enough players at his position for another player who also plays the same position? Makes sense

I don't think that's the reason we're trading Hayward in this scenario.

Yep— you deal him because our 140M+ in projected salary next season is crushing with a lower tax threshold. 120M is much more manageable.

Also, Gordon is a 4/5. Hayward is a 3/4. They dont play the same position.

Aaron Gordon is nothing like a 5...he regularly "plays" 3 due to Isaac's superior rim protection but is capable of defending 1-4. ORL's defense is very good but offense is zero. Swapping Gordon's would hurt ORL's D a little but help ORL's Offense a LOT. A bruising post Center will maul AG. He could MAYBE run a little 5 in some novelty short-term "death lineup" to try to run a plodding big guy into the ground but he's no C. If his 3pt% was 5 points higher like it was 2 years ago, everybody would be fine calling him a 3. The only reason he's available (maybe) is Isaac's emergence as a DPOY candidate with similar offensive limitations and Fultz's still-undeveloped scoring and shooting. ORL needs an offensive playmaker at 3 (like Hayward) to complement the others. AG is a very good player, IMO, just a matter of fit and trade value to me...skip ahead a year and, if Fultz is Washington Fultz again, scoring 22pg, I'd be thrilled to have AG and Isaac filling lanes, hitting open shots, and causing defensive mayhem - Fultz's progress/ceiling is the question mark we are trying to form around.