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2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1881 » by Hal14 » Fri May 30, 2025 1:54 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Seriously, if you look at the list of players the Celtics have worked out it has trade down written all over it. Brad Stevens trading down and collecting 2nd round picks.

Generally speaking, I don't mind trading down as a strategy. 2023 draft night trade downs, Brad walked away with 4 future picks and Jordan Walsh. I thought that was great business.

But also, Brad has gotten so little out of the draft. He's moved pick #16 (2021), #25 (2022), #25 & #29 (2023), #14 (2024) and future picks/swaps in 2028 & 2029 for veteran players ... if you look at the Pop Spurs, the current Thunder and the current Pacers it becomes extremely apparent that hitting on non-lottery picks is critical to financial viability of your team. If you are constantly flipping your picks for good players making $20 million to $35 million, as Brad has done, you get very old and very expensive very quickly.

If we aren't picking #28 and #32 and trading them for other purposes, I would understand it but it'd be a little depressing. What is to be gained from adding 4 future 2nds at this point? With tatum out for the year and a $275 million tax bill and no rotation players under 25 yrs... this is the year to add some rookies imo

I just think that in general, it seems like Brad's approach to team building is much more geared towards trades/free agency and less geared towards the draft..more geared towards bringing in established vets age 26-34 and less geared towards bringing in rookies/young kids who need to develop who are under age 23..
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1882 » by Hal14 » Fri May 30, 2025 1:55 pm

return2glory wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:Kobe Sanders?

A 6-9 Forward with PG skills?



We already have that.


And we had another player who's somewhat similar - Banton.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1883 » by winsomme2 » Fri May 30, 2025 2:11 pm

Hal14 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Seriously, if you look at the list of players the Celtics have worked out it has trade down written all over it. Brad Stevens trading down and collecting 2nd round picks.

Generally speaking, I don't mind trading down as a strategy. 2023 draft night trade downs, Brad walked away with 4 future picks and Jordan Walsh. I thought that was great business.

But also, Brad has gotten so little out of the draft. He's moved pick #16 (2021), #25 (2022), #25 & #29 (2023), #14 (2024) and future picks/swaps in 2028 & 2029 for veteran players ... if you look at the Pop Spurs, the current Thunder and the current Pacers it becomes extremely apparent that hitting on non-lottery picks is critical to financial viability of your team. If you are constantly flipping your picks for good players making $20 million to $35 million, as Brad has done, you get very old and very expensive very quickly.

If we aren't picking #28 and #32 and trading them for other purposes, I would understand it but it'd be a little depressing. What is to be gained from adding 4 future 2nds at this point? With tatum out for the year and a $275 million tax bill and no rotation players under 25 yrs... this is the year to add some rookies imo

I just think that in general, it seems like Brad's approach to team building is much more geared towards trades/free agency and less geared towards the draft..more geared towards bringing in established vets age 26-34 and less geared towards bringing in rookies/young kids who need to develop who are under age 23..


I agree that FA/Trade market has been where he's excelled which I am super surprised by tbh...I thought he was going to really focus on finding diamonds in the rough in the second round/udfa realm.

But he really needs to do both to be elite. if you look at OKC, Presti being able to bring in Wiggins, Dort, Jaylin Williams (the PF) has been super complimented by adding Caruso and Hartenstein...

with SGA, Jalen, and Holmgren being the centerpieces
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1884 » by Hal14 » Fri May 30, 2025 2:14 pm

Again, I doubt he falls to us at 28 but if Fleming is there, you run to the podium and take him.



Interested to see if we bring him in for a workout..or if we bring any big in lol (Markovic, Raynaud, Broome, etc.)
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1885 » by ddb » Fri May 30, 2025 2:24 pm

If Boston stays at #28 my draft binkie is Tahaad Pettiford. I get that he's on the smaller side, but the kid is a baller. I feel like he's the guy that goes late first round this year that we all look back on wondering, "how the hell did he drop to late first round??"
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1886 » by Hal14 » Fri May 30, 2025 2:25 pm

ddb wrote:If Boston stays at #28 my draft binkie is Tahaad Pettiford. I get that he's on the smaller side, but the kid is a baller. I feel like he's the guy that goes late first round this year that we all look back on wondering, "how the hell did he drop to late first round??"

he withdrew from the draft..is going back to school.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1887 » by ddb » Fri May 30, 2025 2:58 pm

Hal14 wrote:
ddb wrote:If Boston stays at #28 my draft binkie is Tahaad Pettiford. I get that he's on the smaller side, but the kid is a baller. I feel like he's the guy that goes late first round this year that we all look back on wondering, "how the hell did he drop to late first round??"

he withdrew from the draft..is going back to school.


Ahh. Thanks for sharing. Breaking news.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1888 » by redslastlaugh » Fri May 30, 2025 4:00 pm

Hal14 wrote:I just think that in general, it seems like Brad's approach to team building is much more geared towards trades/free agency and less geared towards the draft..more geared towards bringing in established vets age 26-34 and less geared towards bringing in rookies/young kids who need to develop who are under age 23..


I wonder why that is? Does Brad so much prioritize each upcoming season and not emphasis a multiyear approach to team building? Does Brad just feel like rookies give too many headaches, being first time so far down the totem pole on a basketball team?

Does Brad not look at salary structure and understand that getting a good contributor on a 4 yr rookie deal is one of the only ways to get impact production for less money? Once players are 26-34 they are difficult to acquire and cost 3x or 5x or even 10x the annual salary of a player you drafted outside the lottery.

Brad used to talk about his respect for the 2014 Spurs. And that team had just drafted Kawhi, Patty Mills, Cory Joseph outside the lottery and those guys were contributing at under $2 million per year each. And they'd signed rookie players who they didn't draft but found off the scrap heap (Danny Green, Aron Baynes) and gave their first NBA contracts which also provided production on a budget salary.

When Brad became GM, I thought he'd follow this Spurs model but half a decade into his POBO tenure, Brad doesn't follow this model at all.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1889 » by 165bows » Fri May 30, 2025 4:14 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
Hal14 wrote:I just think that in general, it seems like Brad's approach to team building is much more geared towards trades/free agency and less geared towards the draft..more geared towards bringing in established vets age 26-34 and less geared towards bringing in rookies/young kids who need to develop who are under age 23..


I wonder why that is? Does Brad so much prioritize each upcoming season and not emphasis a multiyear approach to team building? Does Brad just feel like rookies give too many headaches, being first time so far down the totem pole on a basketball team?

Does Brad not look at salary structure and understand that getting a good contributor on a 4 yr rookie deal is one of the only ways to get impact production for less money? Once players are 26-34 they are difficult to acquire and cost 3x or 5x or even 10x the annual salary of a player you drafted outside the lottery.

Brad used to talk about his respect for the 2014 Spurs. And that team had just drafted Kawhi, Patty Mills, Cory Joseph outside the lottery and those guys were contributing at under $2 million per year each. And they'd signed rookie players who they didn't draft but found off the scrap heap (Danny Green, Aron Baynes) and gave their first NBA contracts which also provided production on a budget salary.

When Brad became GM, I thought he'd follow this Spurs model but half a decade into his POBO tenure, Brad doesn't follow this model at all.

Brad's done better on the udfa/vet min market than a lot of teams have done in the draft. Hauser, Kornet Queta over the past 4 years would have been solid drafts considering where they draft, would be beating the general draft market for picks in the twenties and later.

Not disagreeing with what you are saying at all as they are relevant points but it's fair to give him credit with essentially picking up a draft's worth of players off the freebie pile.

Come to think of it these guys have actually been slightly cheaper as well, as well as older guys with more experience/closer to contributing. Remarkable really, he's murdered the 'Miami heat always find scrap heap guys that turn out great' line completely.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1890 » by redslastlaugh » Fri May 30, 2025 4:58 pm

For sure, Queta, Kornet & Hauser is great return for diving into haystack and finding the needles. Front office gets tons of credit for that.

And the book isn't closed on JD Davison who is still just 22 yrs. When JD has played NBA minutes, he hasn't looked good but also his circumstance (thrown into the fire for 3 random minutes to impress the coach) is just a nervewracking way for him to try to prove himself.

In a world where JD Davison is re-signed and proves a useful rotation player with yet still upside, that'd juice Brad's draft return. And also, just really be helpful for the Celts, if it turns out we have a 22yr old elite passing/athletic PG coming up thru the ranks.

And Baylor to the same but lesser degree: Scheierman is literally 25 come this Halloween.

165bows wrote:Brad's done better on the udfa/vet min market than a lot of teams have done in the draft. Hauser, Kornet Queta over the past 4 years would have been solid drafts considering where they draft, would be beating the general draft market for picks in the twenties and later.

Not disagreeing with what you are saying at all as they are relevant points but it's fair to give him credit with essentially picking up a draft's worth of players off the freebie pile.

Come to think of it these guys have actually been slightly cheaper as well, as well as older guys with more experience/closer to contributing. Remarkable really, he's murdered the 'Miami heat always find scrap heap guys that turn out great' line completely.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1891 » by redslastlaugh » Fri May 30, 2025 5:05 pm

Jon Givony releases updated TOP 100 Big Board. And the article is on free ESPN site not Insider ... so here ya go!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41662748/2025-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1892 » by Hal14 » Fri May 30, 2025 5:20 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
Hal14 wrote:I just think that in general, it seems like Brad's approach to team building is much more geared towards trades/free agency and less geared towards the draft..more geared towards bringing in established vets age 26-34 and less geared towards bringing in rookies/young kids who need to develop who are under age 23..


I wonder why that is? Does Brad so much prioritize each upcoming season and not emphasis a multiyear approach to team building? Does Brad just feel like rookies give too many headaches, being first time so far down the totem pole on a basketball team?

Does Brad not look at salary structure and understand that getting a good contributor on a 4 yr rookie deal is one of the only ways to get impact production for less money? Once players are 26-34 they are difficult to acquire and cost 3x or 5x or even 10x the annual salary of a player you drafted outside the lottery.

Brad used to talk about his respect for the 2014 Spurs. And that team had just drafted Kawhi, Patty Mills, Cory Joseph outside the lottery and those guys were contributing at under $2 million per year each. And they'd signed rookie players who they didn't draft but found off the scrap heap (Danny Green, Aron Baynes) and gave their first NBA contracts which also provided production on a budget salary.

When Brad became GM, I thought he'd follow this Spurs model but half a decade into his POBO tenure, Brad doesn't follow this model at all.

The 2014 spurs are probably not super relevant to winning a title in 2026 and beyond since that was such a long time ago.

To answer your question though, I think it's a risk vs reward thing. Brad knows that as long as Tatum/Brown are in their prime and as long as we have good role players like Al, d-white, etc., we're gonna be a top 5 team in the league which means we're not gonna get a 1st round pick any higher than 26.

I think Brad realizes that picks in the 26-60 range have a pretty low hit rate. He also realizes that for a contending team, a rookie picked in the 26-30 range is probably not going to be good enough or make enough impact to justify the amount of $ and the length of contract commitment 1st round picks get, which is why he has traded out of the 1st round 3 out of 4 years..he'd rather move that asset for a proven vet (white, brogdon, horford) and then if we traded out of the 1st round, well now we're looking at a 2nd round pick that has an even lower probability for becoming a good rotation player on a contender.

There's exceptions like the 2014 spurs or the 2025 thunder. But the 2024 celtics? We got Jrue, KP, Al and White via trade. Tatum and Brown were top 3 picks, something we're not gonna get again for a long time, probably. Hauser was good scouting and player development - an UDFA who was 24 as a rookie. Pritchard was 23 as a rookie..was a late 1st round pick, but was projected to go in the 2nd round.

2021 Bucks. Drafted Giannis top 15 pick, but basically all their other rotation guys were acquired via trade/FA and pretty much all of their rotation guys were age 26+. KNicks starting 5 this year all were acquired via trade/FA, all are age 26+..
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1893 » by brackdan70 » Fri May 30, 2025 6:10 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:Jon Givony releases updated TOP 100 Big Board. And the article is on free ESPN site not Insider ... so here ya go!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41662748/2025-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players

Yanic Konan Niederhauser climbing the boards…up at 34.
I like him as a consolation if Fleming, Raynaud, Wolf are off the board.
Would love Penda or Coward as well.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1894 » by brackdan70 » Fri May 30, 2025 6:13 pm

Somebody picked at 28 or later is going to be a star. IDK who, but I hope Brad does.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1895 » by hugepatsfan » Fri May 30, 2025 6:25 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Seriously, if you look at the list of players the Celtics have worked out it has trade down written all over it. Brad Stevens trading down and collecting 2nd round picks.

Generally speaking, I don't mind trading down as a strategy. 2023 draft night trade downs, Brad walked away with 4 future picks and Jordan Walsh. I thought that was great business.

But also, Brad has gotten so little out of the draft. He's moved pick #16 (2021), #25 (2022), #25 & #29 (2023), #14 (2024) and future picks/swaps in 2028 & 2029 for veteran players ... if you look at the Pop Spurs, the current Thunder and the current Pacers it becomes extremely apparent that hitting on non-lottery picks is critical to financial viability of your team. If you are constantly flipping your picks for good players making $20 million to $35 million, as Brad has done, you get very old and very expensive very quickly.

If we aren't picking #28 and #32 and trading them for other purposes, I would understand it but it'd be a little depressing. What is to be gained from adding 4 future 2nds at this point? With tatum out for the year and a $275 million tax bill and no rotation players under 25 yrs... this is the year to add some rookies imo


Agreed on your overall point about how we'll need to start hitting on draft picks. I do think the 4 future 2nds though are more of a gain this year in particular. It seems like to a huge degree this year and, pending how that goes, potentially next year as well that we'll be making a lot of salary dump deals and it's EXTREMELY inconvenient if we have to use future 1sts for that because it really hurts your trading power once you start dealing with that (we already see it somewhat with the 2029 pick trade limiting us from being able to send out 3 future 1sts in 26/28/30 to the point we can only send out 2).

If they can turn one pick this year to 4 future 2nds then that will help facilitate some of those deals. Like all the Jrue/Porzingis deals we talk about probably end up with marginal savings in the trade itself but breaking them down into smaller contracts that are left on our books that those future 2nds can be used to dump. That's probably the more realistic path to us getting out of this sticky salary situation the next 1-2 years so we can go full force when Tatum is all the way back.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1896 » by playa-hater » Fri May 30, 2025 6:53 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:Jon Givony releases updated TOP 100 Big Board. And the article is on free ESPN site not Insider ... so here ya go!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41662748/2025-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players


1st thing I notice is, there is still good quality available at 28 AND 32. Brad needs to start finding these GEMS!!!
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1897 » by playa-hater » Fri May 30, 2025 6:57 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:Jon Givony releases updated TOP 100 Big Board. And the article is on free ESPN site not Insider ... so here ya go!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41662748/2025-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players

Yanic Konan Niederhauser climbing the boards…up at 34.
I like him as a consolation if Fleming, Raynaud, Wolf are off the board.
Would love Penda or Coward as well.


Would be a spell check nightmare for me, so I am officially referring Yanic Konan Niederhauser as YKN !!!

And getting a Wing of either Penda or Coward and any good BIG is a A+ draft for me.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1898 » by Dogen » Fri May 30, 2025 7:02 pm

Hal14 wrote:Again, I doubt he falls to us at 28 but if Fleming is there, you run to the podium and take him.



Interested to see if we bring him in for a workout..or if we bring any big in lol (Markovic, Raynaud, Broome, etc.)


Fleming is all over the place in mocks, from late lottery to early/mid second round. Consensus likely means he's gone by 24 (to OKC!?! he looks like their type of pick :banghead: ).

With all the other guys going back to school, I'd say his value will rise.

But yeah, if he's there I'd be pushing people out of the way so you can run faster to that podium. :lol:
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1899 » by brackdan70 » Fri May 30, 2025 7:34 pm

playa-hater wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:Jon Givony releases updated TOP 100 Big Board. And the article is on free ESPN site not Insider ... so here ya go!!

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/41662748/2025-nba-draft-big-board-rankings-top-100-prospects-players

Yanic Konan Niederhauser climbing the boards…up at 34.
I like him as a consolation if Fleming, Raynaud, Wolf are off the board.
Would love Penda or Coward as well.


Would be a spell check nightmare for me, so I am officially referring Yanic Konan Niederhauser as YKN !!!

And getting a Wing of either Penda or Coward and any good BIG is a A+ draft for me.

I hear ya. I am still learning Scheierman.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1900 » by playa-hater » Fri May 30, 2025 10:56 pm

Dogen wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Again, I doubt he falls to us at 28 but if Fleming is there, you run to the podium and take him.



Interested to see if we bring him in for a workout..or if we bring any big in lol (Markovic, Raynaud, Broome, etc.)


Fleming is all over the place in mocks, from late lottery to early/mid second round. Consensus likely means he's gone by 24 (to OKC!?! he looks like their type of pick :banghead: ).

With all the other guys going back to school, I'd say his value will rise.

But yeah, if he's there I'd be pushing people out of the way so you can run faster to that podium. :lol:


I think if I was his agent. I would tell him not to work out for OKC. That literally is the last team he should/would want to be on.
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