Official Draft Thread 2015-16

[ddb]

Except that Bender is going to be the best player to come out of this draft....

This is my top 5:
1. Bender
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Dunn
5. Murray

could you please elaborate on what makes you so sure that Bender will be the best player from this draft? Just curious. I'm not trying to be a jerk.

To put it simply: he's a 7 footer who plays both ends, and he's got supreme bbiq & anticipation skills. If he can become a knock-down shooter from deep--and given his character traits and current shooting base I think he can--he has a chance to be the best player in the entire league. Even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he'll still be one of the few guys in the entire league who can go head to head with Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns and play them to a draw and those 2 guys figure to own this league within 2-5 years. He's 17 and skinny but he's ticks every box for me, mentality, character, skillset (can pass, defend, rebound, shoot, score, and think the game at a high high level), size, etc....

Ultimately I think he's a center you run your offense through...a new age Bill Walton (if Bill Walton shot 3s).

I like Simmons a lot but from a pure entertainment perspective, dude is incredibly fun to watch, like a 7 foot Rondo. But like BfB and others have noted the rest of the baggage that comes with him will be difficult to deal with on either a long term or winning basis. I mean, I will not complain if he ends up on the Cs (Stevens would be perfect for him) but there will be a lot of growing pains and drama in his development.

Ingram is my clear cut #2 because he can't be stopped offensively and he's got such great length that you can envision him being a good defender and rebounder in time. I just think people tend to overrate individual scoring ability when they evaluate players and I personally don't see enough of an all-around game to put him above of Bender on my board.

Dunn is like if Rondo was a bigger longer better athlete who enjoyed shooting/scoring on occasion. I love the dude, incredible defender and playmaker who can give you 30 if you need it. I was the lone voice in the wilderness lamenting his decision to pull out of last year's draft because I thought there was a great chance for him to slide to 16. He'd be a great consolation prize if we can't package the Nets pick for a transcendent player (or if we end up moving Smart to bring in another all-star).

Murray has an ugly game when he's missing but he's got that Paul Pierce/Brandon Roy thing about him where he's this average athlete but overcomes it by always maintaining his balance. Great footwork. Sees all the angles and can create his own shot and create shots for others. I wish he was like 2 inches taller and I have some worry about him being more Randy Foye than Brandon Roy so that's why he's middle of the lottery for me.

Guys like J Brown outta Cal should just stay in school. He has no idea what he's doing out there. He looks like an NBA player but doesn't have the feel or much intelligence to play like one. Skal too, he only looks good when his shot is falling, he could really use another couple years in school to figure himself out...

Okay, I get all of this. But you danced around my question. My question is, how do you know this? Have you done advanced scouting on the kid? watching him live? Watched complete games and broke it down? spoke to international scouts from professional teams?
Or
Are you basing your analysis based on internet clips and other writers write-ups?

I need to see Bender working out with and against other prospects before I can make any judgments, simply because I dont know enough about him yet.

To pass on Simmons/Ingram at #1 or #2 would be THE BALLS. I cannot imagine there's a GM in the world that would do that..

[ddb]

If Ainge were to keep all of his valuable picks this year (BK, Mavs, Own, Philly 2nd, Minny 2nd) which is extremely unlikely, here's an ideal draft IMO

BK pick- Simmons or Ingram
Mavs pick- Denzel Valentine (strikes me as a Stevens type)
Own pick- Ben Bentil
Philly & Minny- Stash picks

[Edug27]

blake griffin is known for his trex arms. and they do affect his play, especially on the defensive side where he is very limited

Nonsense. His defense isn't a result of his arm length. There are tons of guys with long wingspans who are stiffs on defense. And you quickly went to defense because Blake is a good scorer and rebounder in the league despite his "short arms".

just because some guys with long wingspans arent good at defense dosent mean short arms aren't a disadvantage. Griffin can't protect the rim because of his short arms, that's just a fact. his athleticism helps but having to jump every time to contest a shot puts you at the mercy of the pump fake. I went to defense because the original comparison was between giannis and simmons. you may not know this but giannis is a two way player and is known for being a monster on defense. and that's where his gogo gadget arms come in handy

Sorry. I ignored the Gianna's comparison. Thought it was just a general observation. But yea, I don't think his arm length will really affect what he does well on the court. He's not going to be a rim protector regardless his wingspan. Odom was 6'10 with a large wingspan and was not a defensive presence by any stretch. Neither is Durant. He's going to be more of a point forward player than he is a banger down low. Lebron himself is 6'8 with just about a 7 foot wingspan. Not overly impressive.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If Hield was a freshman, I think he'd have a shot at the number 1 pick.

And, all things being equal, RJ Hunter is a better prospect.

Don't get me wrong, Buddy's having a hell of a year and I've liked him as a first round prospect since his sophomore year. He's a great GREAT human, incredible worker, and will be a pro from the first day of training camp and probably have a 15 year career when it's all said and done. But, that said, in all honesty there's not much separating him from Jodie Meeks.

Disagree, vehemently. RJ Hunter, despite the reputation to the contrary, is a poor shooter. How he got this reputation shooting nearly 30% from 3 his last year at GSU is beyond me.

Buddy Hield is a phenomenal shooter. No idea if he becomes a great player, but based on tools and production, Hield is a much better prospect going forward.

[Edug27]

If Hield was a freshman, I think he'd have a shot at the number 1 pick.

And, all things being equal, RJ Hunter is a better prospect.

Don't get me wrong, Buddy's having a hell of a year and I've liked him as a first round prospect since his sophomore year. He's a great GREAT human, incredible worker, and will be a pro from the first day of training camp and probably have a 15 year career when it's all said and done. But, that said, in all honesty there's not much separating him from Jodie Meeks.

Disagree, vehemently. RJ Hunter, despite the reputation to the contrary, is a poor shooter. How he got this reputation shooting nearly 30% from 3 his last year at GSU is beyond me.

Buddy Hield is a phenomenal shooter. No idea if he becomes a great player, but based on tools and production, Hield is a much better prospect going forward.

Calling Hunter a better prospect than Hield is crazy person talk. Don't let anyone hear you saying things like that in public. Hield can create his own shot and score off the dribble. No need to get into that any further.

But Hunter is a good shooter. But he's more of a streaky shooter with range than he is a pure Kyle Korver type shooter .. A lot of people compared Hunter to Kevin Martin, who also shot in the low 30's from 3 at Western Carolina.

[Banks2Pierce]

Disagree, vehemently. RJ Hunter, despite the reputation to the contrary, is a poor shooter. How he got this reputation shooting nearly 30% from 3 his last year at GSU is beyond me.

Shot 40% the year before on higher volume. Jury's still out on if he's a good shooter or not. He's kind of quirky in that he seems to have a higher % on the tougher shots. I believe he also had a subluxated shoulder this year so that could be clouding his eval.

Anyone worried about who will or won't declare this year? I'd rather more guys left their names in since we will likely only have 1 first next year. Think the concerns on that front would be Skal, Sabonis, and Grayson. Already getting hearteyesemoji for Luwawu with the Mavs pick tbh.

[Wes-J]

Except that Bender is going to be the best player to come out of this draft....

This is my top 5:
1. Bender
2. Ingram
3. Simmons
4. Dunn
5. Murray

could you please elaborate on what makes you so sure that Bender will be the best player from this draft? Just curious. I'm not trying to be a jerk.

To put it simply: he's a 7 footer who plays both ends, and he's got supreme bbiq & anticipation skills. If he can become a knock-down shooter from deep--and given his character traits and current shooting base I think he can--he has a chance to be the best player in the entire league. Even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he'll still be one of the few guys in the entire league who can go head to head with Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns and play them to a draw and those 2 guys figure to own this league within 2-5 years. He's 17 and skinny but he's ticks every box for me, mentality, character, skillset (can pass, defend, rebound, shoot, score, and think the game at a high high level), size, etc....

Ultimately I think he's a center you run your offense through...a new age Bill Walton (if Bill Walton shot 3s).

I like Simmons a lot but from a pure entertainment perspective, dude is incredibly fun to watch, like a 7 foot Rondo. But like BfB and others have noted the rest of the baggage that comes with him will be difficult to deal with on either a long term or winning basis. I mean, I will not complain if he ends up on the Cs (Stevens would be perfect for him) but there will be a lot of growing pains and drama in his development.

Ingram is my clear cut #2 because he can't be stopped offensively and he's got such great length that you can envision him being a good defender and rebounder in time. I just think people tend to overrate individual scoring ability when they evaluate players and I personally don't see enough of an all-around game to put him above of Bender on my board.

Dunn is like if Rondo was a bigger longer better athlete who enjoyed shooting/scoring on occasion. I love the dude, incredible defender and playmaker who can give you 30 if you need it. I was the lone voice in the wilderness lamenting his decision to pull out of last year's draft because I thought there was a great chance for him to slide to 16. He'd be a great consolation prize if we can't package the Nets pick for a transcendent player (or if we end up moving Smart to bring in another all-star).

Murray has an ugly game when he's missing but he's got that Paul Pierce/Brandon Roy thing about him where he's this average athlete but overcomes it by always maintaining his balance. Great footwork. Sees all the angles and can create his own shot and create shots for others. I wish he was like 2 inches taller and I have some worry about him being more Randy Foye than Brandon Roy so that's why he's middle of the lottery for me.

Guys like J Brown outta Cal should just stay in school. He has no idea what he's doing out there. He looks like an NBA player but doesn't have the feel or much intelligence to play like one. Skal too, he only looks good when his shot is falling, he could really use another couple years in school to figure himself out...

Good to see you back. Nice work.

[ryaningf]

could you please elaborate on what makes you so sure that Bender will be the best player from this draft? Just curious. I'm not trying to be a jerk.

To put it simply: he's a 7 footer who plays both ends, and he's got supreme bbiq & anticipation skills. If he can become a knock-down shooter from deep--and given his character traits and current shooting base I think he can--he has a chance to be the best player in the entire league. Even if he doesn't become a great shooter, he'll still be one of the few guys in the entire league who can go head to head with Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns and play them to a draw and those 2 guys figure to own this league within 2-5 years. He's 17 and skinny but he's ticks every box for me, mentality, character, skillset (can pass, defend, rebound, shoot, score, and think the game at a high high level), size, etc....

Ultimately I think he's a center you run your offense through...a new age Bill Walton (if Bill Walton shot 3s).

I like Simmons a lot but from a pure entertainment perspective, dude is incredibly fun to watch, like a 7 foot Rondo. But like BfB and others have noted the rest of the baggage that comes with him will be difficult to deal with on either a long term or winning basis. I mean, I will not complain if he ends up on the Cs (Stevens would be perfect for him) but there will be a lot of growing pains and drama in his development.

Ingram is my clear cut #2 because he can't be stopped offensively and he's got such great length that you can envision him being a good defender and rebounder in time. I just think people tend to overrate individual scoring ability when they evaluate players and I personally don't see enough of an all-around game to put him above of Bender on my board.

Dunn is like if Rondo was a bigger longer better athlete who enjoyed shooting/scoring on occasion. I love the dude, incredible defender and playmaker who can give you 30 if you need it. I was the lone voice in the wilderness lamenting his decision to pull out of last year's draft because I thought there was a great chance for him to slide to 16. He'd be a great consolation prize if we can't package the Nets pick for a transcendent player (or if we end up moving Smart to bring in another all-star).

Murray has an ugly game when he's missing but he's got that Paul Pierce/Brandon Roy thing about him where he's this average athlete but overcomes it by always maintaining his balance. Great footwork. Sees all the angles and can create his own shot and create shots for others. I wish he was like 2 inches taller and I have some worry about him being more Randy Foye than Brandon Roy so that's why he's middle of the lottery for me.

Guys like J Brown outta Cal should just stay in school. He has no idea what he's doing out there. He looks like an NBA player but doesn't have the feel or much intelligence to play like one. Skal too, he only looks good when his shot is falling, he could really use another couple years in school to figure himself out...

Okay, I get all of this. But you danced around my question. My question is, how do you know this?

I'm from the future.

If Hield was a freshman, I think he'd have a shot at the number 1 pick.

And, all things being equal, RJ Hunter is a better prospect.

Don't get me wrong, Buddy's having a hell of a year and I've liked him as a first round prospect since his sophomore year. He's a great GREAT human, incredible worker, and will be a pro from the first day of training camp and probably have a 15 year career when it's all said and done. But, that said, in all honesty there's not much separating him from Jodie Meeks.

Disagree, vehemently. RJ Hunter, despite the reputation to the contrary, is a poor shooter. How he got this reputation shooting nearly 30% from 3 his last year at GSU is beyond me.

Buddy Hield is a phenomenal shooter. No idea if he becomes a great player, but based on tools and production, Hield is a much better prospect going forward.

So basically you're saying that better shooter = better player.

I don't view things so simplistically. Here's my breakdown: they're basically the same age and same height, but RJ has one more year of NBA experience (and so is theoretically nearer to reaching his NBA potential). And while Hield may be the better shooter, RJ's feel, instincts, ballhandling, passing, defense, and BBIQ are all superior (right now, at least). (RJ also has 2 inches on Hield in wingspan if you're into that).

[SmartWentCrazy]

So basically you're saying that better shooter = better player.

I don't view things so simplistically. Here's my breakdown: they're basically the same age and same height, but RJ has one more year of NBA experience (and so is theoretically nearer to reaching his NBA potential). And while Hield may be the better shooter, RJ's feel, instincts, ballhandling, passing, defense, and BBIQ are all superior (right now, at least). (RJ also has 2 inches on Hield in wingspan if you're into that).

No, I was pretty explicit, better tools+better production = better prospect. Shooting is a tool, but not the only one.

I think Hield has better tools, I think his shot is better, his vision is better, his handle his better, his ability to beat his man to the hoop is better and his feel is better. I think he's worlds better as a prospect. I would much prefer to have Hield going forward than Hunter. It's not the end-all, be-all, but Hunter would struggle to get a future first round pick for himself while Hield is about to be a lottery pick. The reason being that he's just a much better prospect at this stage.

[Powe-Fessional]

The tournament has given me some extra things to look at......

If I were the Celtics and if they were to miraculously land the #1 pick I'd still take Ingram. He showed so many different offensive moves the first two tournament games to the point where if you had to base everything off the tournament, he'd be the clear cut # 1 pick. He's just a freak athlete. He's actually a little smaller than Durant (215/195, 7'5"/7'3"), but is so eerily similar in statue. Durant was a better rebounder in college, but with added size and lower body strength he'll be fine. I believe K when he says Ingram can "run point", however there is a big difference in a guy that can facilitate the offense (which is something that Stevens looks for) versus a point guard (which Ingram is not). Kid played PG for his high school team in spurts, so the ability is there. His read/react is probably average/slightly above average for his position, but that's up to Stevens to groom out of him. He's really skilled right now, and I believe would help the Celtics more immediately than Simmons would. Boston has a good system. Simmons would fit into that. I'm just not sure how quickly him, Stevens and the rest of the team would react day one. Ingram would have a defined role day one.

People are being WAY to hypocritical with Simmons. Guy has a ridiculous stat line for any collegian, never mind a freshman. 19, 11, 5 and 2 for anyone is ridiculous. Only guy in college putting up those numbers. People pick apart his jumpshot because that's really the final piece to the puzzle. We've all seen him shoot because all of us spent countless hours watching all of his YouTube high school highlights. He'll find other ways to score while he learns how to shoot. He'll lock himself in a gym and get it a little respectable. Some of the comps for building certain skill sets have been right on. Kawhi with shooting, the McDermott comp is spectacular (how in the hell he turned into that so shortly is remarkable. Kudos young gun). He still might be growing. If he ended up at 7'feet tall then I have no idea how you stop him. He is LETHAL in transition, has some of the best vision in college, rebounds in traffic. He is a rarer prospect than Ingram, and Ingram is truly unique. Coaching is going to be HUGE for him. He needs the right guy to groom him.

Some people are giving Simmons flak for signing with LeBron's group. Why? Because no one likes LeBron and it feels sorta illegal? Yeah okay you have a point. But consider this is you are Simmons: if one of the greatest athletes in the world, never mind one of the greatest athletes the NBA has ever seen, approaches you and says "Hey I think you should sign with my crew", you're probably going to say yes if you're Simmons. Never mind you look at the money LeBron makes now, and will make for the forseeable future, and it's a no-brainer. Sometimes, I think the public's dismay for LeBron clouds judgment. This is smart move for Simmons, because that group is going to really control what gets filtered out into the media and to GM's. His workout schedule is going to be interesting for a multitude of reasons. Clutch (Klutch?) Sports has a ton of power, maybe enough to shift him to where they want. Which leads me to.....

I think this kid ends up in LA regardless. Just feels like we're headed that way. If their camp was smart they'd try to weasel him onto the Celtics because of Stevens, but they're going to go for name and brand recognition. LA offers more of that. Not hard to think "well if LA has Simmons, D'Angelo, Clarkson, Randle, DeRozen, some coach out there will want that job. We'll let him come to us." Mark Jackson would most definitely be in play for that job. Hell, he'd probably be the favorite.

Other guys:

Someome should gamble on Tyler Ulis. If the Kings were smart (HA, they're morons) they'd think about picking him up (pending on where they pick/who's available). LOVE Ulis. Guy gets where he wants at will, hits big shots, hustles, likable guy (can't say that about all UK guys), is a team leader as a sophomore, etc. The Kings will probably take Buddy Hield and it will fail miserably.

This kid Dejounte Murray on U-Dub is (bleep)-ing interesting. I don't know if he'll come out (I'm not sure what makes him a worse project than some of these other clowns), but holy cow is this kid weird. 6'5", 6'10 wingspan for a PG with a ridiculous first step, good vision and a knack for finishing inside (he loves to attack). She shot sub 30% from 3 this year, but I don't think his shot is broken in any way. Much like his handle, which is pretty good but needs refining, I believe he could be an average/above average shooter. He's going to make his money being a drive-and-kick PG at first and filling out from there. Go take a look. Needs to hit the weight room though.

Kris Dunn's lack of left hand bothers me. Doesn't look like Dejounte Murray has too much of a left right now, but he's a freshman. Dunn isn't.

I think some of these guys are going to flame out from exhaustion, which is what is so baffling about Buddy Hield. I think Jamal Murray was gassed. I watched most of UK in the SEC tournament and all of they're NCAA tournament games. Out of all the players I watched, Jamal Murray looked the most gassed. He's a better player than what he showed. I just have a hard time remembering if Cal ever took him out (he did, but Murray logged so many minutes). Hield continues to dominate, despite high usage and tons of minutes. He's been so consistent. I agree with the "he's getting overlooked because he's a college senior" sentiment. However, now that more people have mentioned that, that idea is going away. Look folks, he's good.

Poetl is a big pass for me. The low-post traditional center is becoming extinct in today's NBA. He looks like he'd be a perfect fit for a different era. Now bigs are asked to stretch the floor and switch a lot defensively. I think he can switch, but can he consistently knock down outside shots like Turner and Porzingis? Are those two guys even sustainable? Who knows. But the experiment has been positive.

Not sure what to think of Jaylen Brown. He's coming out, no doubt about it, and I like him quite a bit. But that's a Marcus Smart-type project and I don't think a lot of you want to go through that. His ceiling is tantalizing, but he needs more work than Smart did. Ivan Rabb, in the right system (Chicago Bulls) would be the more productive player year one.

Guy to make the leap based solely off combine numbers: Dwayne Bacon. Really interesting guy that should see the floor because of defensive, athleticism and his ability to move in transition. Another project though. However, a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I'll save the rest for later.

[Crossy2008]

The tournament has given me some extra things to look at......

Spoiler:

If I were the Celtics and if they were to miraculously land the #1 pick I'd still take Ingram. He showed so many different offensive moves the first two tournament games to the point where if you had to base everything off the tournament, he'd be the clear cut # 1 pick. He's just a freak athlete. He's actually a little smaller than Durant (215/195, 7'5"/7'3"), but is so eerily similar in statue. Durant was a better rebounder in college, but with added size and lower body strength he'll be fine. I believe K when he says Ingram can "run point", however there is a big difference in a guy that can facilitate the offense (which is something that Stevens looks for) versus a point guard (which Ingram is not). Kid played PG for his high school team in spurts, so the ability is there. His read/react is probably average/slightly above average for his position, but that's up to Stevens to groom out of him. He's really skilled right now, and I believe would help the Celtics more immediately than Simmons would. Boston has a good system. Simmons would fit into that. I'm just not sure how quickly him, Stevens and the rest of the team would react day one. Ingram would have a defined role day one.

People are being WAY to hypocritical with Simmons. Guy has a ridiculous stat line for any collegian, never mind a freshman. 19, 11, 5 and 2 for anyone is ridiculous. Only guy in college putting up those numbers. People pick apart his jumpshot because that's really the final piece to the puzzle. We've all seen him shoot because all of us spent countless hours watching all of his YouTube high school highlights. He'll find other ways to score while he learns how to shoot. He'll lock himself in a gym and get it a little respectable. Some of the comps for building certain skill sets have been right on. Kawhi with shooting, the McDermott comp is spectacular (how in the hell he turned into that so shortly is remarkable. Kudos young gun). He still might be growing. If he ended up at 7'feet tall then I have no idea how you stop him. He is LETHAL in transition, has some of the best vision in college, rebounds in traffic. He is a rarer prospect than Ingram, and Ingram is truly unique. Coaching is going to be HUGE for him. He needs the right guy to groom him.

Some people are giving Simmons flak for signing with LeBron's group. Why? Because no one likes LeBron and it feels sorta illegal? Yeah okay you have a point. But consider this is you are Simmons: if one of the greatest athletes in the world, never mind one of the greatest athletes the NBA has ever seen, approaches you and says "Hey I think you should sign with my crew", you're probably going to say yes if you're Simmons. Never mind you look at the money LeBron makes now, and will make for the forseeable future, and it's a no-brainer. Sometimes, I think the public's dismay for LeBron clouds judgment. This is smart move for Simmons, because that group is going to really control what gets filtered out into the media and to GM's. His workout schedule is going to be interesting for a multitude of reasons. Clutch (Klutch?) Sports has a ton of power, maybe enough to shift him to where they want. Which leads me to.....

I think this kid ends up in LA regardless. Just feels like we're headed that way. If their camp was smart they'd try to weasel him onto the Celtics because of Stevens, but they're going to go for name and brand recognition. LA offers more of that. Not hard to think "well if LA has Simmons, D'Angelo, Clarkson, Randle, DeRozen, some coach out there will want that job. We'll let him come to us." Mark Jackson would most definitely be in play for that job. Hell, he'd probably be the favorite.

Other guys:

Someome should gamble on Tyler Ulis. If the Kings were smart (HA, they're morons) they'd think about picking him up (pending on where they pick/who's available). LOVE Ulis. Guy gets where he wants at will, hits big shots, hustles, likable guy (can't say that about all UK guys), is a team leader as a sophomore, etc. The Kings will probably take Buddy Hield and it will fail miserably.

This kid Dejounte Murray on U-Dub is (bleep)-ing interesting. I don't know if he'll come out (I'm not sure what makes him a worse project than some of these other clowns), but holy cow is this kid weird. 6'5", 6'10 wingspan for a PG with a ridiculous first step, good vision and a knack for finishing inside (he loves to attack). She shot sub 30% from 3 this year, but I don't think his shot is broken in any way. Much like his handle, which is pretty good but needs refining, I believe he could be an average/above average shooter. He's going to make his money being a drive-and-kick PG at first and filling out from there. Go take a look. Needs to hit the weight room though.

Kris Dunn's lack of left hand bothers me. Doesn't look like Dejounte Murray has too much of a left right now, but he's a freshman. Dunn isn't.

I think some of these guys are going to flame out from exhaustion, which is what is so baffling about Buddy Hield. I think Jamal Murray was gassed. I watched most of UK in the SEC tournament and all of they're NCAA tournament games. Out of all the players I watched, Jamal Murray looked the most gassed. He's a better player than what he showed. I just have a hard time remembering if Cal ever took him out (he did, but Murray logged so many minutes). Hield continues to dominate, despite high usage and tons of minutes. He's been so consistent. I agree with the "he's getting overlooked because he's a college senior" sentiment. However, now that more people have mentioned that, that idea is going away. Look folks, he's good.

Poetl is a big pass for me. The low-post traditional center is becoming extinct in today's NBA. He looks like he'd be a perfect fit for a different era. Now bigs are asked to stretch the floor and switch a lot defensively. I think he can switch, but can he consistently knock down outside shots like Turner and Porzingis? Are those two guys even sustainable? Who knows. But the experiment has been positive.

Not sure what to think of Jaylen Brown. He's coming out, no doubt about it, and I like him quite a bit. But that's a Marcus Smart-type project and I don't think a lot of you want to go through that. His ceiling is tantalizing, but he needs more work than Smart did. Ivan Rabb, in the right system (Chicago Bulls) would be the more productive player year one.

Guy to make the leap based solely off combine numbers: Dwayne Bacon. Really interesting guy that should see the floor because of defensive, athleticism and his ability to move in transition. Another project though. However, a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I'll save the rest for later.

It will be nice once the lottery has been played out and everyone knows what the draft situation is going to be. I think you are right about Simmons' camp rooting for LA.

For the Celtics the biggest need is a big right? Ingram would be great, but I think that he would either come off the bench, or Crowder would be moved to the four spot. Moving Ingram to the two and having IT at the point would be tough because of the defensive matchups. On the other hand, if Simmons or Bender become the Celtics selection then they can just plug them into the lineup.

One thing is certain, and that is Ainge and Stevens are going to have a chance to build a team that they want to build by either picks or trades.

[Powe-Fessional]

I think the Celtics need scoring in the worst way. It doesn't really matter where it comes from. I like to picture a world where Boston goes small and plays Ingram (or Durant) play center.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[robbie84]

Has anyone watched much of Ben Bentil?
Can he defend? Looked pretty average on D in the few games I've watched, but reminds me a lot of Draymond Green on the offensive end.

[Leprechaun18]

Powe-Fessional;

I agree Dejounte Murray > Jamal Murray. He is the only guard who IMO has superstar potential.

[Celtsfan1980]

The tournament has given me some extra things to look at......

If I were the Celtics and if they were to miraculously land the #1 pick I'd still take Ingram. He showed so many different offensive moves the first two tournament games to the point where if you had to base everything off the tournament, he'd be the clear cut # 1 pick. He's just a freak athlete. He's actually a little smaller than Durant (215/195, 7'5"/7'3"), but is so eerily similar in statue. Durant was a better rebounder in college, but with added size and lower body strength he'll be fine. I believe K when he says Ingram can "run point", however there is a big difference in a guy that can facilitate the offense (which is something that Stevens looks for) versus a point guard (which Ingram is not). Kid played PG for his high school team in spurts, so the ability is there. His read/react is probably average/slightly above average for his position, but that's up to Stevens to groom out of him. He's really skilled right now, and I believe would help the Celtics more immediately than Simmons would. Boston has a good system. Simmons would fit into that. I'm just not sure how quickly him, Stevens and the rest of the team would react day one. Ingram would have a defined role day one.

People are being WAY to hypocritical with Simmons. Guy has a ridiculous stat line for any collegian, never mind a freshman. 19, 11, 5 and 2 for anyone is ridiculous. Only guy in college putting up those numbers. People pick apart his jumpshot because that's really the final piece to the puzzle. We've all seen him shoot because all of us spent countless hours watching all of his YouTube high school highlights. He'll find other ways to score while he learns how to shoot. He'll lock himself in a gym and get it a little respectable. Some of the comps for building certain skill sets have been right on. Kawhi with shooting, the McDermott comp is spectacular (how in the hell he turned into that so shortly is remarkable. Kudos young gun). He still might be growing. If he ended up at 7'feet tall then I have no idea how you stop him. He is LETHAL in transition, has some of the best vision in college, rebounds in traffic. He is a rarer prospect than Ingram, and Ingram is truly unique. Coaching is going to be HUGE for him. He needs the right guy to groom him.

Some people are giving Simmons flak for signing with LeBron's group. Why? Because no one likes LeBron and it feels sorta illegal? Yeah okay you have a point. But consider this is you are Simmons: if one of the greatest athletes in the world, never mind one of the greatest athletes the NBA has ever seen, approaches you and says "Hey I think you should sign with my crew", you're probably going to say yes if you're Simmons. Never mind you look at the money LeBron makes now, and will make for the forseeable future, and it's a no-brainer. Sometimes, I think the public's dismay for LeBron clouds judgment. This is smart move for Simmons, because that group is going to really control what gets filtered out into the media and to GM's. His workout schedule is going to be interesting for a multitude of reasons. Clutch (Klutch?) Sports has a ton of power, maybe enough to shift him to where they want. Which leads me to.....

I think this kid ends up in LA regardless. Just feels like we're headed that way. If their camp was smart they'd try to weasel him onto the Celtics because of Stevens, but they're going to go for name and brand recognition. LA offers more of that. Not hard to think "well if LA has Simmons, D'Angelo, Clarkson, Randle, DeRozen, some coach out there will want that job. We'll let him come to us." Mark Jackson would most definitely be in play for that job. Hell, he'd probably be the favorite.

Other guys:

Someome should gamble on Tyler Ulis. If the Kings were smart (HA, they're morons) they'd think about picking him up (pending on where they pick/who's available). LOVE Ulis. Guy gets where he wants at will, hits big shots, hustles, likable guy (can't say that about all UK guys), is a team leader as a sophomore, etc. The Kings will probably take Buddy Hield and it will fail miserably.

This kid Dejounte Murray on U-Dub is (bleep)-ing interesting. I don't know if he'll come out (I'm not sure what makes him a worse project than some of these other clowns), but holy cow is this kid weird. 6'5", 6'10 wingspan for a PG with a ridiculous first step, good vision and a knack for finishing inside (he loves to attack). She shot sub 30% from 3 this year, but I don't think his shot is broken in any way. Much like his handle, which is pretty good but needs refining, I believe he could be an average/above average shooter. He's going to make his money being a drive-and-kick PG at first and filling out from there. Go take a look. Needs to hit the weight room though.

Kris Dunn's lack of left hand bothers me. Doesn't look like Dejounte Murray has too much of a left right now, but he's a freshman. Dunn isn't.

I think some of these guys are going to flame out from exhaustion, which is what is so baffling about Buddy Hield. I think Jamal Murray was gassed. I watched most of UK in the SEC tournament and all of they're NCAA tournament games. Out of all the players I watched, Jamal Murray looked the most gassed. He's a better player than what he showed. I just have a hard time remembering if Cal ever took him out (he did, but Murray logged so many minutes). Hield continues to dominate, despite high usage and tons of minutes. He's been so consistent. I agree with the "he's getting overlooked because he's a college senior" sentiment. However, now that more people have mentioned that, that idea is going away. Look folks, he's good.

Poetl is a big pass for me. The low-post traditional center is becoming extinct in today's NBA. He looks like he'd be a perfect fit for a different era. Now bigs are asked to stretch the floor and switch a lot defensively. I think he can switch, but can he consistently knock down outside shots like Turner and Porzingis? Are those two guys even sustainable? Who knows. But the experiment has been positive.

Not sure what to think of Jaylen Brown. He's coming out, no doubt about it, and I like him quite a bit. But that's a Marcus Smart-type project and I don't think a lot of you want to go through that. His ceiling is tantalizing, but he needs more work than Smart did. Ivan Rabb, in the right system (Chicago Bulls) would be the more productive player year one.

Guy to make the leap based solely off combine numbers: Dwayne Bacon. Really interesting guy that should see the floor because of defensive, athleticism and his ability to move in transition. Another project though. However, a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I'll save the rest for later.

Simmons attempted 0.1 3-pointers per game. He showed little desire to shoot. Why are we optimistic about his shooting?

[No-Man]

Has anyone watched much of Ben Bentil?
Can he defend? Looked pretty average on D in the few games I've watched, but reminds me a lot of Draymond Green on the offensive end.

In which world does Bentil reminds you of Draymond? they play 0 alike, Bentil is a scorer, he has the midrange shooting and can score inside, his 3pt is still inconsistent but he will be a solid shooter, the problem is that defensively he is more of a smallball C, but he cant protect the rim, havent seen him defend the p&r or switching onto perimeter players at all.
He reminds me of Al Harrington, he is basically a back-up scoring big, to give you a scoring punch from the bench.

[No-Man]

I dont see how Dejounte Murray even play unless he is picked by the 76ers or the Lakers, if not he goes to the dleague for at least a year.
He should, both him and Chriss, stay at UW though.

[Powe-Fessional]

The tournament has given me some extra things to look at......

If I were the Celtics and if they were to miraculously land the #1 pick I'd still take Ingram. He showed so many different offensive moves the first two tournament games to the point where if you had to base everything off the tournament, he'd be the clear cut # 1 pick. He's just a freak athlete. He's actually a little smaller than Durant (215/195, 7'5"/7'3"), but is so eerily similar in statue. Durant was a better rebounder in college, but with added size and lower body strength he'll be fine. I believe K when he says Ingram can "run point", however there is a big difference in a guy that can facilitate the offense (which is something that Stevens looks for) versus a point guard (which Ingram is not). Kid played PG for his high school team in spurts, so the ability is there. His read/react is probably average/slightly above average for his position, but that's up to Stevens to groom out of him. He's really skilled right now, and I believe would help the Celtics more immediately than Simmons would. Boston has a good system. Simmons would fit into that. I'm just not sure how quickly him, Stevens and the rest of the team would react day one. Ingram would have a defined role day one.

People are being WAY to hypocritical with Simmons. Guy has a ridiculous stat line for any collegian, never mind a freshman. 19, 11, 5 and 2 for anyone is ridiculous. Only guy in college putting up those numbers. People pick apart his jumpshot because that's really the final piece to the puzzle. We've all seen him shoot because all of us spent countless hours watching all of his YouTube high school highlights. He'll find other ways to score while he learns how to shoot. He'll lock himself in a gym and get it a little respectable. Some of the comps for building certain skill sets have been right on. Kawhi with shooting, the McDermott comp is spectacular (how in the hell he turned into that so shortly is remarkable. Kudos young gun). He still might be growing. If he ended up at 7'feet tall then I have no idea how you stop him. He is LETHAL in transition, has some of the best vision in college, rebounds in traffic. He is a rarer prospect than Ingram, and Ingram is truly unique. Coaching is going to be HUGE for him. He needs the right guy to groom him.

Some people are giving Simmons flak for signing with LeBron's group. Why? Because no one likes LeBron and it feels sorta illegal? Yeah okay you have a point. But consider this is you are Simmons: if one of the greatest athletes in the world, never mind one of the greatest athletes the NBA has ever seen, approaches you and says "Hey I think you should sign with my crew", you're probably going to say yes if you're Simmons. Never mind you look at the money LeBron makes now, and will make for the forseeable future, and it's a no-brainer. Sometimes, I think the public's dismay for LeBron clouds judgment. This is smart move for Simmons, because that group is going to really control what gets filtered out into the media and to GM's. His workout schedule is going to be interesting for a multitude of reasons. Clutch (Klutch?) Sports has a ton of power, maybe enough to shift him to where they want. Which leads me to.....

I think this kid ends up in LA regardless. Just feels like we're headed that way. If their camp was smart they'd try to weasel him onto the Celtics because of Stevens, but they're going to go for name and brand recognition. LA offers more of that. Not hard to think "well if LA has Simmons, D'Angelo, Clarkson, Randle, DeRozen, some coach out there will want that job. We'll let him come to us." Mark Jackson would most definitely be in play for that job. Hell, he'd probably be the favorite.

Other guys:

Someome should gamble on Tyler Ulis. If the Kings were smart (HA, they're morons) they'd think about picking him up (pending on where they pick/who's available). LOVE Ulis. Guy gets where he wants at will, hits big shots, hustles, likable guy (can't say that about all UK guys), is a team leader as a sophomore, etc. The Kings will probably take Buddy Hield and it will fail miserably.

This kid Dejounte Murray on U-Dub is (bleep)-ing interesting. I don't know if he'll come out (I'm not sure what makes him a worse project than some of these other clowns), but holy cow is this kid weird. 6'5", 6'10 wingspan for a PG with a ridiculous first step, good vision and a knack for finishing inside (he loves to attack). She shot sub 30% from 3 this year, but I don't think his shot is broken in any way. Much like his handle, which is pretty good but needs refining, I believe he could be an average/above average shooter. He's going to make his money being a drive-and-kick PG at first and filling out from there. Go take a look. Needs to hit the weight room though.

Kris Dunn's lack of left hand bothers me. Doesn't look like Dejounte Murray has too much of a left right now, but he's a freshman. Dunn isn't.

I think some of these guys are going to flame out from exhaustion, which is what is so baffling about Buddy Hield. I think Jamal Murray was gassed. I watched most of UK in the SEC tournament and all of they're NCAA tournament games. Out of all the players I watched, Jamal Murray looked the most gassed. He's a better player than what he showed. I just have a hard time remembering if Cal ever took him out (he did, but Murray logged so many minutes). Hield continues to dominate, despite high usage and tons of minutes. He's been so consistent. I agree with the "he's getting overlooked because he's a college senior" sentiment. However, now that more people have mentioned that, that idea is going away. Look folks, he's good.

Poetl is a big pass for me. The low-post traditional center is becoming extinct in today's NBA. He looks like he'd be a perfect fit for a different era. Now bigs are asked to stretch the floor and switch a lot defensively. I think he can switch, but can he consistently knock down outside shots like Turner and Porzingis? Are those two guys even sustainable? Who knows. But the experiment has been positive.

Not sure what to think of Jaylen Brown. He's coming out, no doubt about it, and I like him quite a bit. But that's a Marcus Smart-type project and I don't think a lot of you want to go through that. His ceiling is tantalizing, but he needs more work than Smart did. Ivan Rabb, in the right system (Chicago Bulls) would be the more productive player year one.

Guy to make the leap based solely off combine numbers: Dwayne Bacon. Really interesting guy that should see the floor because of defensive, athleticism and his ability to move in transition. Another project though. However, a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I'll save the rest for later.

Simmons attempted 0.1 3-pointers per game. He showed little desire to shoot. Why are we optimistic about his shooting?

Because the kid is immensely talented. Pretty bleak outlook watching him and labelling him as a non-shooter at the age of 19 when he does a lot of things at a well-above average level. With the right coaching, motivation, etc he'll learn how to shoot. LeBron wasn't a good shooter when he got to the NBA (he only took about 2 per game in his rookie year, yet went 21, 6 and 6 in 2003), but now he's at least respectable when he's open. Simmons didn't show a desire to shoot three's because that wasn't going to help his team win. They were going to win if he took it to the hole, collected fouls, dished it out, etc. He's pretty self-aware, knowing that even if he doesn't shoot he's at worst the second pick in the draft. I mean think about it, this kid is so talented that he could NOT shoot three's and STILL be the #1 pick. That's how good he is. Besides, you know if he got here he would be told to shoot considering how many three's Marcus and Sullinger still take.

[Jingles]

I think the Celtics need scoring in the worst way. It doesn't really matter where it comes from. I like to picture a world where Boston goes small and plays Ingram (or Durant) play center.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Agreed. As Crossy mentioned, of course the C's could use a talented big with athleticism who can rebound and defend the rim but they do a decent job of faking it with the current group (and Simmons isn't going to defend the rim). On the other hand, add Ingram to this team? Exciting stuff. Just think what he can do with NBA spacing. I mean, the Celtics have taken the 9th most threes in the league but shoot it at the 4th lowest percentage. Improving our outside shooting is paramount to taking the next step. Replacing Turner with Ingram (or some other acquisition) would be a nice start.

[Gomes3PC]

The tournament has given me some extra things to look at......

If I were the Celtics and if they were to miraculously land the #1 pick I'd still take Ingram. He showed so many different offensive moves the first two tournament games to the point where if you had to base everything off the tournament, he'd be the clear cut # 1 pick. He's just a freak athlete. He's actually a little smaller than Durant (215/195, 7'5"/7'3"), but is so eerily similar in statue. Durant was a better rebounder in college, but with added size and lower body strength he'll be fine. I believe K when he says Ingram can "run point", however there is a big difference in a guy that can facilitate the offense (which is something that Stevens looks for) versus a point guard (which Ingram is not). Kid played PG for his high school team in spurts, so the ability is there. His read/react is probably average/slightly above average for his position, but that's up to Stevens to groom out of him. He's really skilled right now, and I believe would help the Celtics more immediately than Simmons would. Boston has a good system. Simmons would fit into that. I'm just not sure how quickly him, Stevens and the rest of the team would react day one. Ingram would have a defined role day one.

People are being WAY to hypocritical with Simmons. Guy has a ridiculous stat line for any collegian, never mind a freshman. 19, 11, 5 and 2 for anyone is ridiculous. Only guy in college putting up those numbers. People pick apart his jumpshot because that's really the final piece to the puzzle. We've all seen him shoot because all of us spent countless hours watching all of his YouTube high school highlights. He'll find other ways to score while he learns how to shoot. He'll lock himself in a gym and get it a little respectable. Some of the comps for building certain skill sets have been right on. Kawhi with shooting, the McDermott comp is spectacular (how in the hell he turned into that so shortly is remarkable. Kudos young gun). He still might be growing. If he ended up at 7'feet tall then I have no idea how you stop him. He is LETHAL in transition, has some of the best vision in college, rebounds in traffic. He is a rarer prospect than Ingram, and Ingram is truly unique. Coaching is going to be HUGE for him. He needs the right guy to groom him.

Some people are giving Simmons flak for signing with LeBron's group. Why? Because no one likes LeBron and it feels sorta illegal? Yeah okay you have a point. But consider this is you are Simmons: if one of the greatest athletes in the world, never mind one of the greatest athletes the NBA has ever seen, approaches you and says "Hey I think you should sign with my crew", you're probably going to say yes if you're Simmons. Never mind you look at the money LeBron makes now, and will make for the forseeable future, and it's a no-brainer. Sometimes, I think the public's dismay for LeBron clouds judgment. This is smart move for Simmons, because that group is going to really control what gets filtered out into the media and to GM's. His workout schedule is going to be interesting for a multitude of reasons. Clutch (Klutch?) Sports has a ton of power, maybe enough to shift him to where they want. Which leads me to.....

I think this kid ends up in LA regardless. Just feels like we're headed that way. If their camp was smart they'd try to weasel him onto the Celtics because of Stevens, but they're going to go for name and brand recognition. LA offers more of that. Not hard to think "well if LA has Simmons, D'Angelo, Clarkson, Randle, DeRozen, some coach out there will want that job. We'll let him come to us." Mark Jackson would most definitely be in play for that job. Hell, he'd probably be the favorite.

Other guys:

Someome should gamble on Tyler Ulis. If the Kings were smart (HA, they're morons) they'd think about picking him up (pending on where they pick/who's available). LOVE Ulis. Guy gets where he wants at will, hits big shots, hustles, likable guy (can't say that about all UK guys), is a team leader as a sophomore, etc. The Kings will probably take Buddy Hield and it will fail miserably.

This kid Dejounte Murray on U-Dub is (bleep)-ing interesting. I don't know if he'll come out (I'm not sure what makes him a worse project than some of these other clowns), but holy cow is this kid weird. 6'5", 6'10 wingspan for a PG with a ridiculous first step, good vision and a knack for finishing inside (he loves to attack). She shot sub 30% from 3 this year, but I don't think his shot is broken in any way. Much like his handle, which is pretty good but needs refining, I believe he could be an average/above average shooter. He's going to make his money being a drive-and-kick PG at first and filling out from there. Go take a look. Needs to hit the weight room though.

Kris Dunn's lack of left hand bothers me. Doesn't look like Dejounte Murray has too much of a left right now, but he's a freshman. Dunn isn't.

I think some of these guys are going to flame out from exhaustion, which is what is so baffling about Buddy Hield. I think Jamal Murray was gassed. I watched most of UK in the SEC tournament and all of they're NCAA tournament games. Out of all the players I watched, Jamal Murray looked the most gassed. He's a better player than what he showed. I just have a hard time remembering if Cal ever took him out (he did, but Murray logged so many minutes). Hield continues to dominate, despite high usage and tons of minutes. He's been so consistent. I agree with the "he's getting overlooked because he's a college senior" sentiment. However, now that more people have mentioned that, that idea is going away. Look folks, he's good.

Poetl is a big pass for me. The low-post traditional center is becoming extinct in today's NBA. He looks like he'd be a perfect fit for a different era. Now bigs are asked to stretch the floor and switch a lot defensively. I think he can switch, but can he consistently knock down outside shots like Turner and Porzingis? Are those two guys even sustainable? Who knows. But the experiment has been positive.

Not sure what to think of Jaylen Brown. He's coming out, no doubt about it, and I like him quite a bit. But that's a Marcus Smart-type project and I don't think a lot of you want to go through that. His ceiling is tantalizing, but he needs more work than Smart did. Ivan Rabb, in the right system (Chicago Bulls) would be the more productive player year one.

Guy to make the leap based solely off combine numbers: Dwayne Bacon. Really interesting guy that should see the floor because of defensive, athleticism and his ability to move in transition. Another project though. However, a gamble I'd be willing to take.

I'll save the rest for later.

Wouldn't worry too much about Dunn's left. He has a very nice pull up from the left elbow. Paul Pierce struggled to go left most of his career but offset it with that exact shot. Dunn's biggest issues are ball control (handle is too loose at times) and consistency of his jumper outside 15 feet. IMO he's not a typical top-5 pick but in a weak draft like this, nobody is going to look dumb in 3 years taking him, which is not the case with a lot of other prospects in that range right now

Hield isn't gassed because he's a senior. He's been through this ringer before. Murray is a freshman.

Brown is far more of a project than Smart. Smart was NBA ready on D. Brown is not. End of story.