Kawhi update thread 2.0

[BfB]

That’s 100% not true


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Enlighten us

Really? You haven’t been commenting and following this thread? You know thats been answered a bunch of times already.... stop trolling

PHI has the ability to make a strong package, but to say it’s the best hands down is extremely presumptuous.

There are major questions surrounding Fultz right now. The strangeness of his rookie season has depressed his value. While he’s still intriguing you’re talking about the centerpiece prospect in a superstar trade. He’s not a trump card asset at this point. If Boston offered Jaylen that would be far more appealing. Saric is a very nice piece, but the value of a trade is weighted heavily toward the centerpiece asset, which would be in Boston’s favor. Robert Covington is not a swing state player in such a trade.

The 2021 pick is very appealing on its own, but it’s too far out have more value than possible selections next season. The talk of 2019 being weak may be valid or may prove premature, but teams almost always favor the known to the unknown. Boston’s 4 potential picks next year create tremendous asset value for the Spurs to utilize.

If PHI gets Kawhi it’s most likely going to be based on their willingness to risk him walking while still offering an aggressive package. Boston won’t do that.




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[Darthlukey]

Yea. I don’t quite get the idea of an extension either. He’d have to realllyyyyyyyy want Boston to do something like that.

Kawhi's camp mishandled all of this. He now has zero leverage.

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I'd think it's more subtle than that.

As long as the Lakers can sign him a year from now, he and they have leverage.
If they use their cap room differently, that leverage goes away.
It's hard to imagine them having the patience to leave the cap room unused.
However -- and this complicates everything -- if they trade for Kawhi they have a better chance of having great uses for the cap room.

This is probably the most articulate way I have seen the scenario written. The leverage is a balancing act, the Spurs would be wise to simply wait until James a) opts in/out of his contract and b) selects a new team and c) the lakers use up their cap space.

[BfB]

Enlighten us

Really? You haven’t been commenting and following this thread? You know thats been answered a bunch of times already.... stop trolling

I don't think that was a snarky or trolling comment. I think it was respectful. BfB is one of our best posters and I for one would like to hear his thoughts on why the Sixers should not have a stronger interest in Leonard than the Cs and why the Sixers cannot put together a very attractive package, chock full of young players and future no. 1 draft picks. A package better than anything the Cs could do unless we included Jaylen and both our juicy future no. 1 picks...which we all agree is not happening and should not happen.

Sincere request as I read it.

Answered below.

Your statement here i agree with - previously you said PHI “could” put together the best package not “would” do so...PHI is far more likely to be the higher risk taking team.


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[BfB]

ddb, is the possibility of an extension happening just speculation on your part or is there uh, more to that possibility?

Ainge wants the extension. Spurs need the extension too in order to get the return they want. It's both sides working with Kawhi to cooperate. If he doesn't then the situation gets really awkward for San Antonio, and Boston doesn't do a deal.
Boston has leverage here. They don't need to make a trade. Of course acquiring Kawhi extended is worth it, but it's like the rich getting richer for Boston.
And Philly...they might have to part with Simmons to get Kawhi (if extended). Simmons isn't better than Brown despite what the NBA perception is. Fultz isn't getting the deal done for Philly.



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I’m not understanding the exterior talk. Much like Kyrie, Kawhi has a vested interest in hitting free agency. If he gives up the supermax by being traded he sure as **** isn’t giving up more money by extending his current out of date deal.


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[K For Three]

Does this mean anything at all or am I being paranoid?

GoCeltics123 posted this in the Hayward thread.

Read on Twitter

I don't want to like be a conspiracy theorist but the same is being done to Lebron jerseys this past week I saw on the Cavs forums.

[sully00]

Unlikely he will be able to go to LA unless the Lakers miss on LeBron and stick with youth movement. As of right now the Lakers are all in for Bron. He is the prize for them, not Kawhi. If they land Bron they likely land PG13 and acquire Dame or Kemba

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Lebron is not going to LAL first, it will not happen and they know it.

Why doesn't CLE just trade for Kawhi? Even if they only get one more year out of both of them. Lebron opts in and then CLE give SA a draft pick package that makes SA whole but also respects CLE position maybe there is a way to base the terms based on whether CLE can retain them. Just make it slightly protected picks in both directions in the short and unprotected at the back end. In that way OKC, SA and CLE can almost conspire to freeze out the tampering Lakers.

I realize this isn't great for Boston but it might be good for basketball. James, Leonard, and Love could work and no team is better positioned to roll the dice on the one year thing than CLE because they have leverage over James.

Clevland has zero assets to make that trade. Like, less than zero. Maybe the dude they picked 8th, but thats not good enough.

It isn't zero but it is close. I can't believe they owe a '19 first rounder that just kills this idea. Even with that what I am saying is that this isn't an even playing field that other teams will conspire to an extent not in a bad way or a way that costs them just in a way that allows CLE to pull it off and CLE puts its long term future at risk but lets face it who cares the time is now.

If your SA there two issues at hand. Your going to lose your superstar and he wants to go to your hated rival who is also the largest of market teams while you are probably the smallest. Sure everyone wants the short term fix. But why not take the long view if your the Spurs and do something like what Boston did with Brooklyn where you get a string of future assets. Nobody is going to lose their job in SA and they are terrific in the draft, trade Leonard for 3 future firsts and call it a day. Cavs get to be keep James and be good for the next 3 years and after that SA gets their draft picks.

[BfB]

Kinda get the feeling the Lakers are almost begging the Spurs to give them Kawhi so they can get their dumbass Lebron super team.

And the Spurs are like this back to the Lakers:

If the Lakers save a max cap slot for Kawhi next summer, Spurs risk getting next to nothing in return for him.

Yes, but Lakers also risk getting nothing at all this year. It’s not a no risk situation for them


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[BigTrade92]

Does this mean anything at all or am I being paranoid?

GoCeltics123 posted this in the Hayward thread.

Read on Twitter

I don't want to like be a conspiracy theorist but the same is being done to Lebron jerseys this past week I saw on the Cavs forums.

Probably cause Nike is scrapping that alternate.

There’s a zero percent chance Hayward is traded.

[K For Three]

Does this mean anything at all or am I being paranoid?

GoCeltics123 posted this in the Hayward thread.

Read on Twitter

I don't want to like be a conspiracy theorist but the same is being done to Lebron jerseys this past week I saw on the Cavs forums.

Probably cause Nike is scrapping that alternate.

There’s a zero percent chance Hayward is traded.

I hope so. Sometimes this stuff just freaks me out a bit and I wanted opinions.

[BigTrade92]

Does this mean anything at all or am I being paranoid?

GoCeltics123 posted this in the Hayward thread.

Read on Twitter

I don't want to like be a conspiracy theorist but the same is being done to Lebron jerseys this past week I saw on the Cavs forums.

Probably cause Nike is scrapping that alternate.

There’s a zero percent chance Hayward is traded.

I hope so. Sometimes this stuff just freaks me out a bit and I wanted opinions.

Yeah I presume they’re dumping those in place of a new design next season, which I believe was mentioned when they released their unis last summer.

[BfB]

Ainge wants the extension. Spurs need the extension too in order to get the return they want. It's both sides working with Kawhi to cooperate. If he doesn't then the situation gets really awkward for San Antonio, and Boston doesn't do a deal.
Boston has leverage here. They don't need to make a trade. Of course acquiring Kawhi extended is worth it, but it's like the rich getting richer for Boston.
And Philly...they might have to part with Simmons to get Kawhi (if extended). Brown isn't better than Brown despite what the NBA perception is. Fultz isn't getting the deal done for Philly.



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BfB is right. There is zero chance Kawhi extends as part of the trade. Same issue as exists with Kyrie.

Kyrie is already in Boston. He requested his trade at a better time during his contract shelf life. Kawhi doesnt have such leverage.

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What does leverage have to do with it?

He will get a max contract offer whenever he hits the market.


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[reload141]

ddb, is the possibility of an extension happening just speculation on your part or is there uh, more to that possibility?

Ainge wants the extension. Spurs need the extension too in order to get the return they want. It's both sides working with Kawhi to cooperate. If he doesn't then the situation gets really awkward for San Antonio, and Boston doesn't do a deal.
Boston has leverage here. They don't need to make a trade. Of course acquiring Kawhi extended is worth it, but it's like the rich getting richer for Boston.
And Philly...they might have to part with Simmons to get Kawhi (if extended). Simmons isn't better than Brown despite what the NBA perception is. Fultz isn't getting the deal done for Philly.



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I’m not understanding the exterior talk. Much like Kyrie, Kawhi has a vested interest in hitting free agency. If he gives up the supermax by being traded he sure as **** isn’t giving up more money by extending his current out of date deal.


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I was thinking that ddb was saying there would be have to be a discussion in place between both sides that if we trade for Kawhi he would sign long term when his deal is up... not sign an extension right away, which is like you said way under what he could get.

[jfs1000d]

Part with Simmons? What kind of insanity?

Simmons is great, but he has significant halfcourt issues that you don't know if he'll overcome with age and seasoning and that make him less than ideal for pairing with other ballhandling stars.

It's a massive risk trading him, but Leonard is a 27 year old MVP-caliber franchise talent and arguably the best 2-way player in basketball after LeBron. He's the kind of guy you take massive risks for.

Jaylen or Fultz risks, or Tatum and Simmons risks?

Don’t you dare lump Jaylen Brown in with Fultz.


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[ViperGTS]

Lebron is not going to LAL first, it will not happen and they know it.

Why doesn't CLE just trade for Kawhi? Even if they only get one more year out of both of them. Lebron opts in and then CLE give SA a draft pick package that makes SA whole but also respects CLE position maybe there is a way to base the terms based on whether CLE can retain them. Just make it slightly protected picks in both directions in the short and unprotected at the back end. In that way OKC, SA and CLE can almost conspire to freeze out the tampering Lakers.

I realize this isn't great for Boston but it might be good for basketball. James, Leonard, and Love could work and no team is better positioned to roll the dice on the one year thing than CLE because they have leverage over James.

Clevland has zero assets to make that trade. Like, less than zero. Maybe the dude they picked 8th, but thats not good enough.

It isn't zero but it is close. I can't believe they owe a '19 first rounder that just kills this idea. Even with that what I am saying is that this isn't an even playing field that other teams will conspire to an extent not in a bad way or a way that costs them just in a way that allows CLE to pull it off and CLE puts its long term future at risk but lets face it who cares the time is now.

If your SA there two issues at hand. Your going to lose your superstar and he wants to go to your hated rival who is also the largest of market teams while you are probably the smallest. Sure everyone wants the short term fix. But why not take the long view if your the Spurs and do something like what Boston did with Brooklyn where you get a string of future assets. Nobody is going to lose their job in SA and they are terrific in the draft, trade Leonard for 3 future firsts and call it a day. Cavs get to be keep James and be good for the next 3 years and after that SA gets their draft picks.

Good point on the longview pick thing. Problem is, Trader Danny probably made everyone gunshy about giving up such assets. I highly doubt you will see that again for a long, long time.

Now that I’ve said that, I’m sure Windhorst is gonna break the news of a deal exactly like that any hour now.

[Darthlukey]

BfB is right. There is zero chance Kawhi extends as part of the trade. Same issue as exists with Kyrie.

Kyrie is already in Boston. He requested his trade at a better time during his contract shelf life. Kawhi doesnt have such leverage.

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What does leverage have to do with it?

He will get a max contract offer whenever he hits the market.


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Not from the lakers if they dont have the cap space, that is the leverage

[sully00]

BfB is right. There is zero chance Kawhi extends as part of the trade. Same issue as exists with Kyrie.

Kyrie is already in Boston. He requested his trade at a better time during his contract shelf life. Kawhi doesnt have such leverage.

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What does leverage have to do with it?

He will get a max contract offer whenever he hits the market.


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Exactly the rules that small market owners lead by Peter Holt wanted to some how come down on a guy like Carmelo Anthony have completely backfired. The supermax situation means basically if I can't get it I should leave. Leonard's leverage is that there is going to be a ton of cap space next off season. I think the Lakers thing is the dog whistle of NBA FAs. Riley will make the moves necessary so Miami can be that team too.

I think what is getting too short attention in all of this is what created these situations. Why did guys like Horford and Hayward leave? Why did Kyrie roll the grenade and why does Leonard want out so bad? Why did Westbrook stay? I think the guys at the top of the pay scale want something more than just the pay check. They want what Irving got the other day with the "Family Screening" of his stupid movie I will have to watch 10 times. That would not have happened in CLE because it would have broke Lebron's nose. The C's used to have white sneaker and black sneaker rules now you can whatever flavor you want. My son (source of me having to watch the movie) follows the shoes. Do you think other guys on the Cavs would have been pimping Kyrie's latest Picasso all the time? But on the C's his teammates are rocking his shoes.

I think the alert that Boston is worried about Kyrie leaving is wrong. Boston is conscious of the fact that they have to want to make him stay. The pay check and a chance to win isn't enough. At the same time having an understudy in the wings who could not just take his job in Boston but could impact his sneaker world doesn't hurt.

[BfB]

Kawhi's camp mishandled all of this. He now has zero leverage.

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I would say he absolutely has some leverage given that he is a FA next summer. If he didn't have leverage, he would have already been traded.

Unlikely he will be able to go to LA unless the Lakers miss on LeBron and stick with youth movement. As of right now the Lakers are all in for Bron. He is the prize for them, not Kawhi. If they land Bron they likely land PG13 and acquire Dame or Kemba

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At present the Lakers only have money for one max contract. Moving Deng’s money is going to require a significant asset as every team knows they are over a barrel.

Bron is 33, I don’t think the Lakers can ignore the possibility that they need to get Kawhi first


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[Grahf]

Kawhi's camp mishandled all of this. He now has zero leverage.

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I would say he absolutely has some leverage given that he is a FA next summer. If he didn't have leverage, he would have already been traded.

Unlikely he will be able to go to LA unless the Lakers miss on LeBron and stick with youth movement. As of right now the Lakers are all in for Bron. He is the prize for them, not Kawhi. If they land Bron they likely land PG13 and acquire Dame or Kemba

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I almost hope this happens just so we can see LaVar Ball‘s head explode when the Lakers ship Lonzos ass out to NBA Purgatory aka Charlotte.

[K For Three]

Saw this, not sure if it's accurate but hey why not? Post em if you got em as long as it's not Dan Lifshatz.

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[NYCelticsfan136]

Spurs better not get ripped off. Who the hell will take the deng contract?