Jaylen Brown Thread

[Bad-Thoma]

His assist:usage ratio is in the 8th percentile among wings (worse than last season’s 37th percentile). His point per shot is in the 37th percentile among wings (worse than last season’s 63rd percentile).

And yet his usage is still same as JT’s. Because why?

His numbers should obviously bounce back to where they were last year, we're only 7 games in. But his usage should absolutely be less than it is. I'm not on the get-rid-of-Joe bandwagon as of yet but I do put this on him, Jaylen initiates way to much offense with the ball in his hands when he should be thriving as a cutter and a catch and shoot player.

I feel like trust hasn't been built in this line up yet that if you give the ball up you'll ever get it back and that falls primarily on the Jays but it's a risk with having that much scoring talent in the starting 5. Excepting DW as he just plays basketball the right way all the time.

I don't think Jaylen would thrive as a catch and shoot player. He is simply not a very good three point shooter, nor is he capable of shooting off movement.
Same problem with being a cutter. Cutting well requires exceptional timing, reading the defense, and being decisive--none of these things describe Jaylen.
For better or for worse, he is at his best with the ball in his hands. His true niche is being the 1st or 2nd option on a bad team.

Bk I got no problem with you at all but when it comes to JB I disregard your opinion, you aren't rational about it. I agree he has flaws, I agree that contract hurts a bit, but he's not basketball Pol Pot or whatever you got going on.

[BK_2020]

His numbers should obviously bounce back to where they were last year, we're only 7 games in. But his usage should absolutely be less than it is. I'm not on the get-rid-of-Joe bandwagon as of yet but I do put this on him, Jaylen initiates way to much offense with the ball in his hands when he should be thriving as a cutter and a catch and shoot player.

I feel like trust hasn't been built in this line up yet that if you give the ball up you'll ever get it back and that falls primarily on the Jays but it's a risk with having that much scoring talent in the starting 5. Excepting DW as he just plays basketball the right way all the time.

I don't think Jaylen would thrive as a catch and shoot player. He is simply not a very good three point shooter, nor is he capable of shooting off movement.
Same problem with being a cutter. Cutting well requires exceptional timing, reading the defense, and being decisive--none of these things describe Jaylen.
For better or for worse, he is at his best with the ball in his hands. His true niche is being the 1st or 2nd option on a bad team.

Bk I got no problem with you at all but when it comes to JB I disregard your opinion, you aren't rational about it. I agree he has flaws, I agree that contract hurts a bit, but he's not basketball Pol Pot or whatever you got going on.

Him being a below-average to poor 3 point shooter is not opinion. It's unfortunately fact. You could argue there's more shades to how you evaluate his cutting but I don't see anyone successfully arguing that Jaylen is a savant who can see the play develop three steps before it happens.

[Bad-Thoma]

His assist:usage ratio is in the 8th percentile among wings (worse than last season’s 37th percentile). His point per shot is in the 37th percentile among wings (worse than last season’s 63rd percentile).

And yet his usage is still same as JT’s. Because why?

His numbers should obviously bounce back to where they were last year, we're only 7 games in. But his usage should absolutely be less than it is. I'm not on the get-rid-of-Joe bandwagon as of yet but I do put this on him, Jaylen initiates way to much offense with the ball in his hands when he should be thriving as a cutter and a catch and shoot player.

I feel like trust hasn't been built in this line up yet that if you give the ball up you'll ever get it back and that falls primarily on the Jays but it's a risk with having that much scoring talent in the starting 5. Excepting DW as he just plays basketball the right way all the time.

His numbers last season were already mediocre at best for someone with his usage. Ultimately, someone with his lack of vision, feel, processing speed, and decision-making ability shouldn't be trusted with the ball as much as they have. I thought we got Jrue and elevated DWhite so JB wouldn't have to handle the ball much.

I don't mind the Tatum isos/PnRs or him having the ball as much. Numbers bear out we're getting great offense out of that. Even initiate ball movement out of it when opposing teams send a second guy.

Yeah I looked up his numbers after the post, I had forgot that he had a sub par shooting season. I still feel like his numbers would revert back to his better seasons if he got more shots from others creating for him though, I'm not a fan of the blur of crossovers step back 3 from anyone, even Tatum. Even when the percentages are there it take the rest of the team out of the offense too much an usually the percentages aren't there.

[BK_2020]

The numbers don't bear out your optimism. Jaylen's catch and shoot 3p% numbers have been dismal. Below 35% bad. Maybe if he focuses on corner threes he could be a respectable shooter but then you are paying the supermax for a Grant Williams. For Jaylen Brown to be a viable catch and shoot guy, he needs to play like Ray Allen/ Reggie Miller/ Klay Thompson, someone who can create spacing for others with offball gravity.

[Bad-Thoma]

I don't think Jaylen would thrive as a catch and shoot player. He is simply not a very good three point shooter, nor is he capable of shooting off movement.
Same problem with being a cutter. Cutting well requires exceptional timing, reading the defense, and being decisive--none of these things describe Jaylen.
For better or for worse, he is at his best with the ball in his hands. His true niche is being the 1st or 2nd option on a bad team.

Bk I got no problem with you at all but when it comes to JB I disregard your opinion, you aren't rational about it. I agree he has flaws, I agree that contract hurts a bit, but he's not basketball Pol Pot or whatever you got going on.

Him being a below-average to poor 3 point shooter is not opinion. It's unfortunately fact. You could argue there's more shades to how you evaluate his cutting but I don't see anyone successfully arguing that Jaylen is a savant who can see the play develop three steps before it happens.

He's had a couple seasons where he shot above 38% from 3 on similar attempts to the last couple seasons and last year he had a lot of dunks off back door cuts fed by Marcus early in the shot clock. Getting the shots off assists would improve the quality of the attempts likely leading to a higher percentage going in. Getting the ball off of cuts would feed into his real strength, athleticism.

Also, he doesn't eat babies weirdo.

[Floody23]

Read on Twitter

That bounce pass @0:15 was painful to watch. It’s like his brain takes too long to process what’s going on & therefore a simple bounce pass to the roller becomes too difficult for him & he throws it at the guys legs.

I just don’t understand why someone in that organisation hasn’t had the b***s to tell Jaylen he’s not good enough to be an initiator & should solely focus on being a finisher & just that. Would solve nearly every issue we have as it’s one of the main reasons holding us back from winning #18.

[Parasite]

Because people are too afraid of confrontation. Especially when it comes to a max player. It’s pathetic and infuriating.

[zoyathedestroya]

Looks like team is deadset on turning him into a secondary playmaker. Just like they're insisting PP is a viable backup PG. Or that Joe could be an elite coach. Except we're on a tight title window. We're ready to win now. We can't just rub a genie out of a lamp to grant all three wishes.

[ryan in Maine]

We're 7 games in, guys. 7 games.

Hoping they figure out how they can put all these pieces together. And how to best utilize Jaylen. And hoping he's open to whatever they ask of him.

I'm one of JB's most steadfast defenders. That said, we know that he has the lowest basketball iq in our top 7 players. I expected him to take the longest to come around in general, and definitely will struggle to adjust, despite his best intentions.

We should be talking under/over on half the season for JB to adjust. I think he's going to get there. When he gets there, the energy will shift. When the energy shifts, we're going to hit Championship Level.

Like others, I'm just hoping he's not thinking about his contract when he's picturing his role in the offense. And personally, I think JB put on too much muscle. He's gone away from the smooth game he used to have since he added that muscle. His first step used to get through the d more reliably.

Edit
JB couldn't pull these dunks off anymore.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Or 2nd dunk on Giannis or #1 on this list which is still my personal favorite.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I know he got Rudy with the dunk he likes to get Giannis with the other night. He can still take advantage of an open lane.

[hugepatsfan]

DeAndre Hunter
Bogdon Bogdonovich
Onyeka Okongwu
2029 1st rounder

For Brown and Pritchard works I think.

Then we’d have the ability to trade draft rights to our 2024 1st round pick and our 25/27/ATL’s 29 1st rounder. With some mid sized salaries to attach to them. Assuming no other trades though…

Holiday / (White)
White / Bogi
Hunter / Hauser
Tatum / Horford
Porzingis / Okongwu

Or switch it up and play bigger with…

Holiday / (White)
White / Bogi
Tatum / Hauser
Porzingis / Hunter
Okongwu / Horford

Hawks pre-free agency roster would look pretty solid on their end too…

Trae / Kobe Bufkin (mid 1st rounder this past year)
Murray
Brown / AJ Griffin
Jalen Johnson / Sadiiq Bey (assuming they’d re-sign?)
Capela

[playa-hater]

I think Atlanta might be the only team, maybe, that would consider taking on JB and that contract. JB's numbers will go down as his usage rate "should" go down. We are stuck with him and that contract and in all likely hood doomed to repeat this cycle over and over again.

Challenge for the team is reconciling his strength as a player and what's best for the team/how the team will reach its full potential. I feel like him as a volume scorer doesn't align with this team's ceiling since it would then fail to maximize our new guys and DWhite.

With this current configuration, this might be crazy talk, but someone like Draymond Green might be a better fit with Tatum/White/Jrue/Porzingis and might totally unlock offensive peak of this group. All-world defender + elite playmaker + enforcer. Bonus points if he can hit an occasional three. Who is that guy?

This in a NUTSHELL is exactly what Boston's challenge is and you hit the nail on the head. Since he can not be traded I see this as a reoccurring Road bump all year long.

[Jammer]

The problem with Brown, as playa-hater already mentioned, is that his usage rate is too high considering the other talent and roster balance of the Celtics.

He's trying to keep his numbers up to justify his contract when he should be "fitting in to win." He doesn't have to score as much now that Porzingis is the obvious second option and Holiday is an upgrade to Smart, and about equal to Brogdan on offense (but a better defender than Brogdan). Brogdan didn't really fit into the offense as much as get his numbers the iso way anyway, so Holiday is a blessing is more ways than I care to name.

The Celtics shot allocation needs ADJUSTMENT and MANAGEMENT. If we use 91 shots per game, which is marginally less than the 91.7 the Celtics are currently averaging, then it should be more like:

21 Tatum (currently 19.4)
16 Porzingis (currently 12.3)
14 Brown (currently 18.3) *** THIS IS THE F*'NN PROBLEM
10 Holiday (currently 11.3)
10 White (currently 10.4)
6 Hauser (currently 6.0)
5 Horford (currently 5.7)
9 Assorted 3 point shooters (Brickin Pritchard et al) & opportunities by other players (currently 8.3 per game)

That is a sensible shot allocation based on the skills and talent levels and creating a balanced attack.

[GoGreen]

The problem with Brown, as playa-hater already mentioned, is that his usage rate is too high considering the other talent and roster balance of the Celtics.

He's trying to keep his numbers up to justify his contract when he should be "fitting in to win." He doesn't have to score as much now that Porzingis is the obvious second option and Holiday is an upgrade to Smart, and about equal to Brogdan, on offense (but a better defender than Brogdan). Brogdan didn't really fit into the offense as much as get his numbers the iso way anyway, so Holiday is a blessing is more ways than I care to name.

The Celtics shot allocation needs to be something like, if we use 91 shots per game which is marginally less than the 91.7 the Celtics are currently averaging:

21 Tatum (currently 19.4)
16 Porzingis (currently 12.3)
14 Brown (currently 18.3) *** THIS IS THE F*'NN PROBLEM
10 Holiday (currently 11.3)
10 White (currently 10.4)
6 Hauser (currently 6.0)
5 Horford (currently 5.7)
9 Assorted 3 point shooters (Brickin Pritchard et al) & opportunities by other players (currently 8.3 per game)

That is a sensible shot allocation based on the skills and talent levels and creating a balanced attack.

Hmm. Seems everyone but JB got the memo about sacrifice :/

[Floody23]

The problem with Brown, as playa-hater already mentioned, is that his usage rate is too high considering the other talent and roster balance of the Celtics.

He's trying to keep his numbers up to justify his contract when he should be "fitting in to win." He doesn't have to score as much now that Porzingis is the obvious second option and Holiday is an upgrade to Smart, and about equal to Brogdan, on offense (but a better defender than Brogdan). Brogdan didn't really fit into the offense as much as get his numbers the iso way anyway, so Holiday is a blessing is more ways than I care to name.

The Celtics shot allocation needs to be something like, if we use 91 shots per game which is marginally less than the 91.7 the Celtics are currently averaging:

21 Tatum (currently 19.4)
16 Porzingis (currently 12.3)
14 Brown (currently 18.3) *** THIS IS THE F*'NN PROBLEM
10 Holiday (currently 11.3)
10 White (currently 10.4)
6 Hauser (currently 6.0)
5 Horford (currently 5.7)
9 Assorted 3 point shooters (Brickin Pritchard et al) & opportunities by other players (currently 8.3 per game)

That is a sensible shot allocation based on the skills and talent levels and creating a balanced attack.

The difference between White & Brown is definitely a problem.

[Parliament10]

Let's try to keep most of the Jaylen Brown material, in One Thread.

~ Parl

[BK_2020]

Which thread is that supposed to be

[zoyathedestroya]

Which thread is that supposed to be

Mod just merged the JB trade ideas thread with the All-NBA one.

[165bows]

DeAndre Hunter
Bogdon Bogdonovich
Onyeka Okongwu
2029 1st rounder

For Brown and Pritchard works I think.

Then we’d have the ability to trade draft rights to our 2024 1st round pick and our 25/27/ATL’s 29 1st rounder. With some mid sized salaries to attach to them. Assuming no other trades though…

Holiday / (White)
White / Bogi
Hunter / Hauser
Tatum / Horford
Porzingis / Okongwu

Or switch it up and play bigger with…

Holiday / (White)
White / Bogi
Tatum / Hauser
Porzingis / Hunter
Okongwu / Horford

Hawks pre-free agency roster would look pretty solid on their end too…

Trae / Kobe Bufkin (mid 1st rounder this past year)
Murray
Brown / AJ Griffin
Jalen Johnson / Sadiiq Bey (assuming they’d re-sign?)
Capela

I used to hate the Hawks as a potential trade partner but this Celtics team is not the same as the past. I don’t think this is my favorite version (rather see Jalen Johnson come back) but there are several versions that work better than they used to.

That said one guy I’d like to sort of buy low on is Jabari Smith. 6’10” PF who is versatile defensive and has a good shot at being able to shoot and still should be able to make a couple of jumps in his level of play.

When this come up last year a guy I wanted was Sengun who’s had a great start to the year. But he doesn’t fit as well with KP on board.

[LeonPowe2004]

No posts since the 10th. I wonder what happened in the last two days that caused everyone to disappear?

[zoyathedestroya]

Hey Joe, help a brother out.