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2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1921 » by winsomme2 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 12:59 am

Hal14 wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:Are we sleeping on Adou Thiero?

Could he be OG Anunoby?

He has more skill and coordination than Jordan Walsh to my eye with similar length and defensive upside. Having a hard time seeing what his level will be on offense.

One can shoot, one can't..



I’m not so sure. Thiero’s shooting motion doesn’t look that bad to me plus he looks pretty comfortable dribbling the ball on his drives…

I find him hard to assess as a pro. I think his physicality would translate but not sure about his skills.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1922 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:51 am

Hal14 wrote:
165bows wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Kind of in a similar vein (a big who's old, wouldn't use draft capital on him but think he could be a nice UDFA target who could possibly end up being a decent backup big)

Norchad Omier

Omier is tough as nails, strong as hell. Has some shooting potential. Rebounds the crap out of the ball. Pretty good defender. Has some moves with the ball to carve out space, can post up or face up, has some touch around the rim.

He's only 6'7" in shoes. But he's built like a tank, 245 lbs..6'11.5" wingspan. Plays bigger - with his weight, strength and rebounding ability.

A guard/wing in the draft and then a big as an UDFA could be a path we take (probably trading the other pick)..

Ha I forgot all about that guy.

I was leaning towards Lahkin or Dylan Cardwell as the udfa type big. I’m curious to compare with him I totally lost track of that guy.

Cardwell might just be a nice guy to take a look at in Summer League.

Lahkin got hurt..think he's out for awhile. Tough break for him. Think he'll just take his time with rehab/recovery and then try to play somewhere in G league or overseas and try to work his way onto an NBA roster eventually from there.

I was starting to warm up to him as an UDFA/summer league type of guy.

Ah damn I hadn’t seen that. Well just sign him and let him rehab here I suppose.

I think I still prefer Cardwell to Ormier, seems like a better passer. Kind of a rich man’s Jason Collins type.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1923 » by Hal14 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 2:55 pm

Well, we finally brought in a big for a pre-draft workout. Of course, it's not one of the 10+ bigs who has been discussed on here.

It's a guy who's projected to go undrafted.

Yeah, doesn't seem like we're prioritizing this draft much. Or maybe Brad is just being stealth..

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1924 » by Half-Full » Sun Jun 1, 2025 6:05 pm

Hal14 wrote:Well, we finally brought in a big for a pre-draft workout. Of course, it's not one of the 10+ bigs who has been discussed on here.

It's a guy who's projected to go undrafted.

Yeah, doesn't seem like we're prioritizing this draft much. Or maybe Brad is just being stealth..

Image


https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-alabama-clifford-omoruyi
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1925 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 1, 2025 6:36 pm

Half-Full wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Well, we finally brought in a big for a pre-draft workout. Of course, it's not one of the 10+ bigs who has been discussed on here.

It's a guy who's projected to go undrafted.

Yeah, doesn't seem like we're prioritizing this draft much. Or maybe Brad is just being stealth..

Image


https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-alabama-clifford-omoruyi

I like the look of him more than I expected.

Nice blend of being able to carve out and hold space along with really nice length and athletic pop. I feel like those two are often at odds - you have the Tillman types who are lower and strong and can control space and then the more classic skinny athletic leapers who can move and get to places but not necessarily hold that space once they get there, if that makes sense.

This guy looks capable in both areas I can see why they gave him a look.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1926 » by Bill Lumbergh » Sun Jun 1, 2025 7:16 pm

I'm warming to the idea of just taking Kalkbrenner. We need a center. I see no reason why he can't be better than Zubac. Much more impactful on defense. That'd be good value at 28.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1927 » by phincsfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 7:42 pm

165bows wrote:
Half-Full wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Well, we finally brought in a big for a pre-draft workout. Of course, it's not one of the 10+ bigs who has been discussed on here.

It's a guy who's projected to go undrafted.

Yeah, doesn't seem like we're prioritizing this draft much. Or maybe Brad is just being stealth..

Image


https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-alabama-clifford-omoruyi

I like the look of him more than I expected.

Nice blend of being able to carve out and hold space along with really nice length and athletic pop. I feel like those two are often at odds - you have the Tillman types who are lower and strong and can control space and then the more classic skinny athletic leapers who can move and get to places but not necessarily hold that space once they get there, if that makes sense.

This guy looks capable in both areas I can see why they gave him a look.


When I see a player pop up out of no-where, I think of one thing. Where’s the connection?

Stevens is a known fan of Nate Oats. I’m sure that played a part when he drafted JD. Stevens trusts his system.

An asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Preston Murphy has New England ties while Stevens has been involved with the Celtics. Boston College and Rhode Island.

Another asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Brian Adams was a video coordinator for the Celtics from 07-11. Stevens obviously wasn’t around, but Austin Ainge was.

Maine is written all over this interest imo.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1928 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 7:50 pm

Bill Lumbergh wrote:I'm warming to the idea of just taking Kalkbrenner. We need a center. I see no reason why he can't be better than Zubac. Much more impactful on defense. That'd be good value at 28.

Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1929 » by Bill Lumbergh » Sun Jun 1, 2025 8:09 pm

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:I'm warming to the idea of just taking Kalkbrenner. We need a center. I see no reason why he can't be better than Zubac. Much more impactful on defense. That'd be good value at 28.

Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.

Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become. Kalkbrenner's raw tools, size and relative athleticism (relative to Zubac), such as it is, and his defense, make me think he has a highish floor for a pick at 28, and therefore good value, since most of them don't pan out. He's also a 4 time DPOY in the Big East. I see potential for him to be better than Zubac. You don't? It's fine.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1930 » by winsomme2 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 9:39 pm

Bill Lumbergh wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:I'm warming to the idea of just taking Kalkbrenner. We need a center. I see no reason why he can't be better than Zubac. Much more impactful on defense. That'd be good value at 28.

Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.

Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become. Kalkbrenner's raw tools, size and relative athleticism (relative to Zubac), such as it is, and his defense, make me think he has a highish floor for a pick at 28, and therefore good value, since most of them don't pan out. He's also a 4 time DPOY in the Big East. I see potential for him to be better than Zubac. You don't? It's fine.


Anybody see Brook Lopez ceiling when they watch tape of Kalkbrenner?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1931 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Sun Jun 1, 2025 10:21 pm

Bill Lumbergh wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:I'm warming to the idea of just taking Kalkbrenner. We need a center. I see no reason why he can't be better than Zubac. Much more impactful on defense. That'd be good value at 28.

Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.

Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become. Kalkbrenner's raw tools, size and relative athleticism (relative to Zubac), such as it is, and his defense, make me think he has a highish floor for a pick at 28, and therefore good value, since most of them don't pan out. He's also a 4 time DPOY in the Big East. I see potential for him to be better than Zubac. You don't? It's fine.

I don't put ceilings on prospects, I just try to remain realistic about what the likelihood of a particular outcome is. We live in a world where a 15th pick toiling in the second division in Greece and a 41st pick that couldn't jump over a piece of paper turned themselves into the best players of their generation. And yes, a dude that was once traded at the deadline for an expiring Mike Muscala turned himself into one of the best centers in the league. Anything is possible as a great philosopher of our time would say. It's just not the most likely outcome and in fact it's notable because of how rare it is. It will remain shocking any time a late first round/second round pick (whether it's Kalkbrenner or someone else) reaches even Zubac's level.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1932 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 1, 2025 10:36 pm

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.

Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become. Kalkbrenner's raw tools, size and relative athleticism (relative to Zubac), such as it is, and his defense, make me think he has a highish floor for a pick at 28, and therefore good value, since most of them don't pan out. He's also a 4 time DPOY in the Big East. I see potential for him to be better than Zubac. You don't? It's fine.

I don't put ceilings on prospects, I just try to remain realistic about what the likelihood of a particular outcome is. We live in a world where a 15th pick toiling in the second division in Greece and a 41st pick that couldn't jump over a piece of paper turned themselves into the best players of their generation. And yes, a dude that was once traded at the deadline for an expiring Mike Muscala turned himself into one of the best centers in the league. Anything is possible as a great philosopher of our time would say. It's just not the most likely outcome and in fact it's notable because of how rare it is. It will remain shocking any time a late first round/second round pick (whether it's Kalkbrenner or someone else) reaches even Zubac's level.

Plus finding them is tough - 2016 draft landed Jaylen Brown so it was a home run but drafting Yabs and Ante Zizic over Zubac (and Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Malcolm Brogdon even) still stinks when they had what a half a dozen picks in that draft that swung and missed?
I’m still a tiny cranky over that draft lol.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1933 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 1, 2025 10:41 pm

phincsfan wrote:
165bows wrote:

I like the look of him more than I expected.

Nice blend of being able to carve out and hold space along with really nice length and athletic pop. I feel like those two are often at odds - you have the Tillman types who are lower and strong and can control space and then the more classic skinny athletic leapers who can move and get to places but not necessarily hold that space once they get there, if that makes sense.

This guy looks capable in both areas I can see why they gave him a look.


When I see a player pop up out of no-where, I think of one thing. Where’s the connection?

Stevens is a known fan of Nate Oats. I’m sure that played a part when he drafted JD. Stevens trusts his system.

An asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Preston Murphy has New England ties while Stevens has been involved with the Celtics. Boston College and Rhode Island.

Another asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Brian Adams was a video coordinator for the Celtics from 07-11. Stevens obviously wasn’t around, but Austin Ainge was.

Maine is written all over this interest imo.

Interesting connections. The big one being JDD along with the rest. Though I have listened to podcast interviews of Celtic scouts in the past they simply make long term dossiers on everyone in the ballpark of what they look for so it’s meaningful but also not in a specific sense if that makes sense.

On the other hand Hal any idea if they worked this guy out last year? Curious because of some of the comments Scheierman made about some pretty specific direction it sounded like he got after his draft workout the year before last.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1934 » by redslastlaugh » Sun Jun 1, 2025 10:48 pm

165bows wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become.

I don't put ceilings on prospects, I just try to remain realistic about what the likelihood of a particular outcome is. We live in a world where a 15th pick toiling in the second division in Greece and a 41st pick that couldn't jump over a piece of paper turned themselves into the best players of their generation.

Plus finding them is tough - 2016 draft landed Jaylen Brown so it was a home run but drafting Yabs and Ante Zizic over Zubac (and Dejounte Murray, Siakam, Malcolm Brogdon even) still stinks when they had what a half a dozen picks in that draft that swung and missed?
I’m still a tiny cranky over that draft lol.

I think it's even worse than we commonly remember because we had five 2nds going into the draft (tho Danny traded 31 + 35 during the draft) and aside from the Brogdons and Zubacs who went in the second, 2016 had like 4 or 5 guys who went undrafted but became very good pro's and we also passed on those guys.

2016 undrafted prospects:
Fred VanVleet
Alex Caruso
Dorian Finney-Smith
Gary Payton II
Derrick Jones Jr.
and others

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/rigoqy/is_2016_the_most_successful_year_in_terms_of/
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1935 » by phincsfan » Sun Jun 1, 2025 10:56 pm

165bows wrote:
phincsfan wrote:
165bows wrote:I like the look of him more than I expected.

Nice blend of being able to carve out and hold space along with really nice length and athletic pop. I feel like those two are often at odds - you have the Tillman types who are lower and strong and can control space and then the more classic skinny athletic leapers who can move and get to places but not necessarily hold that space once they get there, if that makes sense.

This guy looks capable in both areas I can see why they gave him a look.


When I see a player pop up out of no-where, I think of one thing. Where’s the connection?

Stevens is a known fan of Nate Oats. I’m sure that played a part when he drafted JD. Stevens trusts his system.

An asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Preston Murphy has New England ties while Stevens has been involved with the Celtics. Boston College and Rhode Island.

Another asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Brian Adams was a video coordinator for the Celtics from 07-11. Stevens obviously wasn’t around, but Austin Ainge was.

Maine is written all over this interest imo.

Interesting connections. The big one being JDD along with the rest. Though I have listened to podcast interviews of Celtic scouts in the past they simply make long term dossiers on everyone in the ballpark of what they look for so it’s meaningful but also not in a specific sense if that makes sense.

On the other hand Hal any idea if they worked this guy out last year? Curious because of some of the comments Scheierman made about some pretty specific direction it sounded like he got after his draft workout the year before last.


As far as his stats, it’s interesting that they all dropped. His mpg dropped so that will be the obvious reason, I just wonder why his minutes dropped?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1936 » by 165bows » Sun Jun 1, 2025 11:25 pm

phincsfan wrote:
165bows wrote:
phincsfan wrote:
When I see a player pop up out of no-where, I think of one thing. Where’s the connection?

Stevens is a known fan of Nate Oats. I’m sure that played a part when he drafted JD. Stevens trusts his system.

An asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Preston Murphy has New England ties while Stevens has been involved with the Celtics. Boston College and Rhode Island.

Another asst. coach under Oats at Bama, Brian Adams was a video coordinator for the Celtics from 07-11. Stevens obviously wasn’t around, but Austin Ainge was.

Maine is written all over this interest imo.

Interesting connections. The big one being JDD along with the rest. Though I have listened to podcast interviews of Celtic scouts in the past they simply make long term dossiers on everyone in the ballpark of what they look for so it’s meaningful but also not in a specific sense if that makes sense.

On the other hand Hal any idea if they worked this guy out last year? Curious because of some of the comments Scheierman made about some pretty specific direction it sounded like he got after his draft workout the year before last.


As far as his stats, it’s interesting that they all dropped. His mpg dropped so that will be the obvious reason, I just wonder why his minutes dropped?

Yeah idk beyond new team setting. That type of big doesn’t seem to play a ton of minutes in the pros at least anyways so I’m not too worried.

Minutes are important but it’s also really important to be able to view these guys’ production on per minute/possession basis. I’m pretty good at judging these guys by their statistical profile for a casual fan and it’s too hard to do without normalizing their production.

But it is a good question, for a freshman that’s one thing bit obviously a senior should be getting solid minutes lol. But this guy clearly had an uptick in foul rate for some reason and that I’d assume is a part of it he was basically fouling out per 40 mins which is a little concerning for a senior.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1937 » by Bill Lumbergh » Sun Jun 1, 2025 11:36 pm

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:
Bill Lumbergh wrote:
Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:Zubac currently has the best touch of any center not named Nikola Jokic so there's that for starters. He also consistently ranks amongst the very best rim protectors in the league. If Kalkbrenner ever approaches the level of this version of Zubac on either end of the floor let alone both I would be shocked.

Noted. You would have been equally shocked that Zubac himself turned into what he has become. Kalkbrenner's raw tools, size and relative athleticism (relative to Zubac), such as it is, and his defense, make me think he has a highish floor for a pick at 28, and therefore good value, since most of them don't pan out. He's also a 4 time DPOY in the Big East. I see potential for him to be better than Zubac. You don't? It's fine.

I don't put ceilings on prospects, I just try to remain realistic about what the likelihood of a particular outcome is. We live in a world where a 15th pick toiling in the second division in Greece and a 41st pick that couldn't jump over a piece of paper turned themselves into the best players of their generation. And yes, a dude that was once traded at the deadline for an expiring Mike Muscala turned himself into one of the best centers in the league. Anything is possible as a great philosopher of our time would say. It's just not the most likely outcome and in fact it's notable because of how rare it is. It will remain shocking any time a late first round/second round pick (whether it's Kalkbrenner or someone else) reaches even Zubac's level.


You're talking historical likelihoods, and I am just talking about what I see and how much potential I think a guy has. From a historical and statistical likelihood perspective, you are absolutely correct, it is unlikely that a 28th pick will have the level of success that Zubac, himself a 32nd pick, has had, and yet, when I see these particular two players, I just don't see any reason physically, that Kalkbrenner couldn't have that level of success, at the very least, defensively. There's no physical reason why he could not, imo. Whether he develops to that level, who knows?

Beyond that, my larger point, without hyperfocusing on a Kalkbrenner Zubac comparison, is that I think Kalkbrenner has lower bust potential than a typical 28th pick, because of his size and defense, and would therefore be a good value pick at 28. I think he'll be in the league for a long time, in itself something unusual for a 28th pick.

There's no way to know how these guys careers will play out. Clearly how I see this guy's potential differs from how you see it, and I am totally okay with that. As always with these projections, it'll take years to find out.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1938 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 12:45 am

165bows wrote:
Half-Full wrote:
Hal14 wrote:Well, we finally brought in a big for a pre-draft workout. Of course, it's not one of the 10+ bigs who has been discussed on here.

It's a guy who's projected to go undrafted.

Yeah, doesn't seem like we're prioritizing this draft much. Or maybe Brad is just being stealth..

Image


https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-alabama-clifford-omoruyi

I like the look of him more than I expected.

Nice blend of being able to carve out and hold space along with really nice length and athletic pop. I feel like those two are often at odds - you have the Tillman types who are lower and strong and can control space and then the more classic skinny athletic leapers who can move and get to places but not necessarily hold that space once they get there, if that makes sense.

This guy looks capable in both areas I can see why they gave him a look.

Yeah, Cliff is not that bad. He's worth a look.

Interesting combination of size (7'6" wingspan), strength and athleticism. Can rebound, block shots, catch lobs. He's very much your typical rim runner, rim protector big..with strength, athleticism, wingspan...but very old.

But maybe the celtics like that - maybe they like older guys who are already developed so less risk, more of a sure thing where they already know how to play, you know what you're gonna get with them.

Also, worth noting Cliff was teammates at Rutgers with Ron Harper Jr, who was on our G league team for half the season last year, played summer league with us last year and preseason with us too. Then this season Cliff played at Alabama (as did JD Davison) which is in the SEC..where we have sourced a lot of our younger guys (Springer, Walsh, Grant, Nesmith, JD, etc.).

Cliff seems tough..plays hard. Nothing flashy..but just seems steady, like you know what you're gonna get from him. Wouldn't shock me if he ends up being a decent backup big in the league but also wouldn't shock me if he spends his whole career overseas.
1/11/24 The birth of a new Hal. From now on being less combative, avoiding confrontation - like Switzerland :)
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1939 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 12:49 am

phincsfan wrote:As far as his stats, it’s interesting that they all dropped. His mpg dropped so that will be the obvious reason, I just wonder why his minutes dropped?

Cliff went to a much better team.

He went from Rutgers which was like an average team when he was there and during his time at Rutgers he was literally like the only guy on the roster who could play C..goes to Alabama where they were top 5 team in the country for basically the whole season, and had 2 or 3 other guys who could play C (their other 5's could also shoot the 3 a bit and Oats has said he prefers shooters).
1/11/24 The birth of a new Hal. From now on being less combative, avoiding confrontation - like Switzerland :)
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg 

Post#1940 » by Hal14 » Mon Jun 2, 2025 12:54 am

165bows wrote:Interesting connections. The big one being JDD along with the rest. Though I have listened to podcast interviews of Celtic scouts in the past they simply make long term dossiers on everyone in the ballpark of what they look for so it’s meaningful but also not in a specific sense if that makes sense.

On the other hand Hal any idea if they worked this guy out last year? Curious because of some of the comments Scheierman made about some pretty specific direction it sounded like he got after his draft workout the year before last.

Actually yes, I just checked and we DID have Cliff in for a workout ahead of the 2023 draft.

Others we worked out before that draft (but they returned to school)

Alijah Martin
Coleman Hawkins
Norchad Omier
1/11/24 The birth of a new Hal. From now on being less combative, avoiding confrontation - like Switzerland :)

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