Trade Post-Mortem 2017: Eight is Enough

[aim2please]

Plus the Jazz can pay Hayward a few more millions, so if Utah offers to play ball so Gordon can get all his dollars... the rights to Yabusele could be the comp.

Not sure I understood you correctly but sign and trade rule doesn't work like that anymore. His max is the same if BOS uses cap space to sign him or if he's sign and traded to BOS. Rule was changed after Bosh and Lebron were sign and traded to Miami.

...Under previous CBAs a player who qualified could receive a full Bird contract and go to the team of his choice, which encouraged the player to seek a sign-and-trade once he decided to play elsewhere. Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team. In addition, it is much simpler for the player to sign directly with his new team, as a sign-and-trade has to be agreed to by three parties rather than two. A player is really only forced to seek a sign-and-trade if he wants to go to a team that is capped-out (or doesn't have enough cap room to give the player his full starting salary) and can't sign him directly.

[BleedGreen1989]

I think I'd rather sign Danillo Gallinari over Blake Griffin.

There, I said it.

[jmr07019]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

[galipeautim]

Whatever we need to do to trade down for the #3 pick and Ben Simmons should get done. Philly needs an experienced guard we have plenty and they need to continue to stockpile draft picks (we have plenty of those too). Only thing I would not give up is Jaylen Brown or the 2018 Brooklyn pick.

[Valid]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

[Valid]

I think I'd rather sign Danillo Gallinari over Blake Griffin.

There, I said it.

So you would rather sign a guy who has had even more injury issues than Blake Griffin?

[galipeautim]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

[Valid]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

Well, I think that depends on who we get in return, but I certainly wouldn't trade them both (plus Crowder) for Hassan Whiteside.

But yeah. To your point, I generally don't think trading both Bradley and Smart is a good idea.

[galipeautim]

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

Well, I think that depends on who we get in return, but I certainly wouldn't trade them both (plus Crowder) for Hassan Whiteside.

But yeah. To your point, I generally don't think trading both Bradley and Smart is a good idea.

I think Whiteside is worth a decent return if it means we don't have to overpay to keep guys. But honestly, I'm rather indifferent to paying Whiteside 20+ million or Bradley 20+ million. If Whiteside were on a rookie contract maybe it makes sense.

[jmr07019]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

Say what you want about Hassan but at least we wouldn't be getting killed by the likes of Robin freakin Lopez and Tristian Thompson. Tired of finese big men. I agree it's a bit of an overpay but we need to match salary. Maybe we could get a smaller asset from Miami back in the deal. With IT, Hayward, Fultz and Brown (and to a lesser extent Rozier) we don't need and can't afford Bradley and Smart. Crowder is much cheaper but still redundant.

[ThirtyFour]

What's the deal with Bosh, is he eligible to play if he is cleared health wise? Any chance of grabbing him on a 1&1 deal for cheap?

[Valid]

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

Well, I think that depends on who we get in return, but I certainly wouldn't trade them both (plus Crowder) for Hassan Whiteside.

But yeah. To your point, I generally don't think trading both Bradley and Smart is a good idea.

I think Whiteside is worth a decent return if it means we don't have to overpay to keep guys. But honestly, I'm rather indifferent to paying Whiteside 20+ million or Bradley 20+ million. If Whiteside were on a rookie contract maybe it makes sense.

I'm not 100 percent opposed to Whiteside, but I don't see him as valuable as others do. He really isn't a good defender, he chases blocks, he sets terrible screens and he gives half-hearted efforts far too often.

I'd take him, but I wouldn't give up that much for him. I'd rather save our assets for better players.

[jmr07019]

Bradley, Crowder and Smart for Whiteside. Maybe have to make a 3 way so it makes more sense for heat. The idea from our perspective is to that Whiteside is actually cheaper than a resigned BRadley (~20 mil per), resigned Smart (~14 mil per) and Crowder (~7 per). Whiteside also gives us the size we need to match up with Cleveland. Role with

IT - Brown - Hayward - Horford - Whiteside
Rozier - Fultz - Yabs - Zizic

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

With IT, Rozier, Fultz, Brown and Hayward we absolutely can. If no Hayward then it's a different story.

[jmr07019]

Well, I think that depends on who we get in return, but I certainly wouldn't trade them both (plus Crowder) for Hassan Whiteside.

But yeah. To your point, I generally don't think trading both Bradley and Smart is a good idea.

I think Whiteside is worth a decent return if it means we don't have to overpay to keep guys. But honestly, I'm rather indifferent to paying Whiteside 20+ million or Bradley 20+ million. If Whiteside were on a rookie contract maybe it makes sense.

I'm not 100 percent opposed to Whiteside, but I don't see him as valuable as others do. He really isn't a good defender, he chases blocks, he sets terrible screens and he gives half-hearted efforts far too often.

I'd take him, but I wouldn't give up that much for him. I'd rather save our assets for better players.

He either got much worse at blocking shots or stopped chasing blocks this year.

[galipeautim]

Jesus. That's WAY too much for Whiteside.

I don't think people realize that Whiteside isn't actually a good defender. The dude has been a net negative on that end every year.

That's the type of package you put together for Rudy Gobert; not Whiteside.

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

With IT, Rozier, Fultz, Brown and Hayward we absolutely can. If no Hayward then it's a different story.

Hayward is not a 2 guard by any stretch of the imagination. He is a 3/4 combo like Crowder.

[jmr07019]

I don't think we can afford to send out Bradley and Smart for any deal that doesn't net a 2 guard.

With IT, Rozier, Fultz, Brown and Hayward we absolutely can. If no Hayward then it's a different story.

Hayward is not a 2 guard by any stretch of the imagination. He is a 3/4 combo like Crowder.

IT (32) / Rozier (16)
Fultz (30) / Brown (18)
Hayward (32) / Brown (16)

No Hayward means Brown can't play as much at the 2 because he is needed at the 3. Could use a 6th guy but that's not a big concern. Could probably be Nader.

[galipeautim]

With IT, Rozier, Fultz, Brown and Hayward we absolutely can. If no Hayward then it's a different story.

Hayward is not a 2 guard by any stretch of the imagination. He is a 3/4 combo like Crowder.

IT (32) / Rozier (16)
Fultz (30) / Brown (18)
Hayward (32) / Brown (16)

No Hayward means Brown can't play as much at the 2 because he is needed at the 3. Could use a 6th guy but that's not a big concern. Could probably be Nader.

Brown is also not a two guard...he does not have the ball handling to be one nor is he a great passer. He is a great as a catch & shoot three/dribble drive from the corner, but I can't imagine him running plays toward the top of the key.

[SMTBSI]

IT (32) / Rozier (16)
Fultz (30) / Brown (18)
Hayward (32) / Brown (16)

Just remember that when doing minute break-downs like that, it's never quite as tight in reality. When you add up everyone's mpg on the season, you get well over what a context-naive analysis would have as possible, since guys miss games.

I've almost exclusively started doing these kinds of analyses in terms of "minutes per season" now.

[jmr07019]

IT (32) / Rozier (16)
Fultz (30) / Brown (18)
Hayward (32) / Brown (16)

Just remember that when doing minute break-downs like that, it's never quite as tight in reality. When you add up everyone's mpg on the season, you get well over what a context-naive analysis would have as possible, since guys miss games.

I've almost exclusively started doing these kinds of analyses in terms of "minutes per season" now.

Ya I like how you do total minutes for the season but it's a little more work and I'm lazy lol. But in the playoff rotations tighten and you really only need 4-5 guys at the 1-3 positions.

[SMTBSI]

IT (32) / Rozier (16)
Fultz (30) / Brown (18)
Hayward (32) / Brown (16)

Just remember that when doing minute break-downs like that, it's never quite as tight in reality. When you add up everyone's mpg on the season, you get well over what a context-naive analysis would have as possible, since guys miss games.

I've almost exclusively started doing these kinds of analyses in terms of "minutes per season" now.

Ya I like how you do total minutes for the season but it's a little more work and I'm lazy lol. But in the playoff rotations tighten and you really only need 4-5 guys at the 1-3 positions.

True. I like my approach for snapshotting available developmental time and depth, but you're right that it has limited applicability for the playoffs.