Last Train to Celticsville Trade Thread

[Jaqua92]

This entire article makes little to no sense. For example is he referencing the offensive chemistry between Brown and Smart as a struggle? Because honestly, the chemistry between those two is among the best on the team offensively. Or is it between Tatum and both Brown/Smart? That would make a lot more sense but isn't obvious from the sentence structure.

Then he talks about Brown's defensive inconsistencies as a reason people may tune him out. That's just referencing an old no longer accurate trope about Brown. Sure, he makes mistakes. But so does literally everyone on the team at times. I'm not sure Brown makes them anymore frequently then anyone else. He has the BEST defensive rating on the team, and while I don't think thats all his doing he at least can't be costing them that much with his "miscues."

There's also the stuff about Smart's inaccurate flair passes "negating" his playmaking improvements, which also seems like a stretch. He takes very good care of the ball and the team is better offensively with him out there (as much as I'd rather have a shooter there). His offensive rating is nearly identical to Tatum's. Again not really saying he's generating great offense but he's not the problem in that regard either, not really.

This entire article is just off, its one of those pieces trying to put the blame on "leadership" or "chemistry" when in reality the Celtics just have a mostly shooting, somewhat passing problem with chemistry a distant third if at all issue. You could have literally the exact same team out there but if Tatum was at 40% from three, Horford at 37%, Smart at 35% and Nesmith draining 40% off the bench nobody would be talking about the chemistry because shots would be falling and thgey'd be wya better.

If this was the only article about it, that would be one thing. But this is just one example of many, from respected nba writers.

As far as the offensive chemistry, he definitely means between Smart and Jaylen. How true is it? No clue lol.

I distinctly remember an article from either January or February talking about how the Smart to Brown assist was in fact the most common assist pair by both totals assists and points in the entire league at the time. I mean clearly that pairing works fine offensively. Its like one of the weirder pairings you could nitpick on the team. They also work fine together, team has an overall 5.6 net rating with that two man lineup.

I don't know, I read an article that cites a bunch of examples of play-style problems taht too be honest i don't even think are actual problems and I have a hard time taking it seriously. The article is based on "team sources," and its entirely possible those "team sources" are just wrong about the actual issue.

And I am definitely not one of those "keep everyone together, the team is fine" kind of guys. I would be fine moving Smart right now, I kind of think you need a better shooter at your PG position. I think the team needs a talent infusion, a big 3+D wing, a connector PG, ect. But this article frames a lot of their issues as a leadership issue, and I just think that's kind of a lazy fall back for people who don't want to tackle the actual team building issue.

I think it's just as lazy to dismiss the psychological impact a lack of leadership, as well as a lack of chemistry can have on a team/any groups ability to maximize their job as a unit.

The article speaks to the lack of offensive chemistry between Tatum and Brown, and Tatum and Smart. Not Brown and Smart. The particular paragraph was talking about Tatum's leadership, so I thought that read pretty clearly.

I know it's easy to dismiss leadership and chemistry issues. But here's the deal.


They keep popping up. There's an obvious lack of consistency, effort, and discipline on this team. Smart has been explosive, has shown historically to be a poorly disciplined player. Brown does get tunnel vision (though any chemistry issues there would be due to immature players not recognizing that this is a weakness of Jaylen's game, not selfishness)

I think to deny ANY leadership/chemistry issues the core 3 creates on this team is ignorant.

A change needs to happen. Not just for talent and roster, but for culture and life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[chrisab123]

I'm not a fan of Marcus, but I keep him over Fox. He's exactly what we don't need. That Haliburton guy though, yes pls

Why? Fox is a point guard, who has shown flashes of brilliance and is the victim of a crap situation in Sacramento. Marcus is in an ideal situation and is under performing and has maxed out his potential. You can not like the player but the fit is there and he probably would have a career year playing with 2 all stars.

This team needs a better 3rd star than Marcus if they want to compete.

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

Hes only 24. Smaller PGs usually break down around 30-32 years old. Hes also 6'3, not exactly "small" but hes not Ben Simmons...So while the contract is huge he does have trade value around the league. So if you can get him back to his 1st contract levels then it would be very easy to swap him for say Bradley Beal in the offseason. If thats what you choose. Smart is already a finished product. Hes a 6th man getting paid like a 3rd star. The ROI on Fox rehabbed value is much greater than Marcus.

[Jaqua92]

Read on Twitter

Incoming Lakers fans saying they're getting all of them

Lakers targeting all those players with nothing to offer. Good to know.

Exactly. They went all in and have been managing the bargain bin for the past few years....and the last move they did was cash in some of their assets and now they have their backs against the wall stuck with Westbrook.

Still, watch them do something...they always seem to get lucky.

They will.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Feed Your Head]

If this was the only article about it, that would be one thing. But this is just one example of many, from respected nba writers.

As far as the offensive chemistry, he definitely means between Smart and Jaylen. How true is it? No clue lol.

I distinctly remember an article from either January or February talking about how the Smart to Brown assist was in fact the most common assist pair by both totals assists and points in the entire league at the time. I mean clearly that pairing works fine offensively. Its like one of the weirder pairings you could nitpick on the team. They also work fine together, team has an overall 5.6 net rating with that two man lineup.

I don't know, I read an article that cites a bunch of examples of play-style problems taht too be honest i don't even think are actual problems and I have a hard time taking it seriously. The article is based on "team sources," and its entirely possible those "team sources" are just wrong about the actual issue.

And I am definitely not one of those "keep everyone together, the team is fine" kind of guys. I would be fine moving Smart right now, I kind of think you need a better shooter at your PG position. I think the team needs a talent infusion, a big 3+D wing, a connector PG, ect. But this article frames a lot of their issues as a leadership issue, and I just think that's kind of a lazy fall back for people who don't want to tackle the actual team building issue.

I think it's just as lazy to dismiss the psychological impact a lack of leadership, as well as a lack of chemistry can have on a team/any groups ability to maximize their job as a unit.

The article speaks to the lack of offensive chemistry between Tatum and Brown, and Tatum and Smart. Not Brown and Smart. The particular paragraph was talking about Tatum's leadership, so I thought that read pretty clearly.

I know it's easy to dismiss leadership and chemistry issues. But here's the deal.


They keep popping up. There's an obvious lack of consistency, effort, and discipline on this team. Smart has been explosive, has shown historically to be a poorly disciplined player. Brown does get tunnel vision (though any chemistry issues there would be due to immature players not recognizing that this is a weakness of Jaylen's game, not selfishness)

I think to deny ANY leadership/chemistry issues the core 3 creates on this team is ignorant.

A change needs to happen. Not just for talent and roster, but for culture and life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I dunno, this reads very clearly as between Jaylen and Smart. Again, not saying if it’s the case or not, but definitely what Weiss is saying.

Tatum has cemented his reputation as a quiet, lead-by-example type, while the continued struggles for offensive chemistry between Brown and Smart has created a sense of staleness within the team. Multiple people in the locker room have brought up the lack of desperation from this team, something that often shows throughout the week as the Celtics bounce between composed and lost.

[Jaqua92]

I'm not a fan of Marcus, but I keep him over Fox. He's exactly what we don't need. That Haliburton guy though, yes pls

Why? Fox is a point guard, who has shown flashes of brilliance and is the victim of a crap situation in Sacramento. Marcus is in an ideal situation and is under performing and has maxed out his potential. You can not like the player but the fit is there and he probably would have a career year playing with 2 all stars.

This team needs a better 3rd star than Marcus if they want to compete.

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

So we keep Smart? Who also can't shoot?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[chrisab123]

Why? Fox is a point guard, who has shown flashes of brilliance and is the victim of a crap situation in Sacramento. Marcus is in an ideal situation and is under performing and has maxed out his potential. You can not like the player but the fit is there and he probably would have a career year playing with 2 all stars.

This team needs a better 3rd star than Marcus if they want to compete.

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

So we keep Smart? Who also can't shoot?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Smart can shoot. Just ask Ime Brad and Marcus

[Jaqua92]

I distinctly remember an article from either January or February talking about how the Smart to Brown assist was in fact the most common assist pair by both totals assists and points in the entire league at the time. I mean clearly that pairing works fine offensively. Its like one of the weirder pairings you could nitpick on the team. They also work fine together, team has an overall 5.6 net rating with that two man lineup.

I don't know, I read an article that cites a bunch of examples of play-style problems taht too be honest i don't even think are actual problems and I have a hard time taking it seriously. The article is based on "team sources," and its entirely possible those "team sources" are just wrong about the actual issue.

And I am definitely not one of those "keep everyone together, the team is fine" kind of guys. I would be fine moving Smart right now, I kind of think you need a better shooter at your PG position. I think the team needs a talent infusion, a big 3+D wing, a connector PG, ect. But this article frames a lot of their issues as a leadership issue, and I just think that's kind of a lazy fall back for people who don't want to tackle the actual team building issue.

I think it's just as lazy to dismiss the psychological impact a lack of leadership, as well as a lack of chemistry can have on a team/any groups ability to maximize their job as a unit.

The article speaks to the lack of offensive chemistry between Tatum and Brown, and Tatum and Smart. Not Brown and Smart. The particular paragraph was talking about Tatum's leadership, so I thought that read pretty clearly.

I know it's easy to dismiss leadership and chemistry issues. But here's the deal.


They keep popping up. There's an obvious lack of consistency, effort, and discipline on this team. Smart has been explosive, has shown historically to be a poorly disciplined player. Brown does get tunnel vision (though any chemistry issues there would be due to immature players not recognizing that this is a weakness of Jaylen's game, not selfishness)

I think to deny ANY leadership/chemistry issues the core 3 creates on this team is ignorant.

A change needs to happen. Not just for talent and roster, but for culture and life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I dunno, this reads very clearly as between Jaylen and Smart. Again, not saying if it’s the case or not, but definitely what Weiss is saying.

Tatum has cemented his reputation as a quiet, lead-by-example type, while the continued struggles for offensive chemistry between Brown and Smart has created a sense of staleness within the team. Multiple people in the locker room have brought up the lack of desperation from this team, something that often shows throughout the week as the Celtics bounce between composed and lost.

I thought so too..but Tatum is the subject of that paragraph, and that sentence. So when I read "the chemistry", I'm reading it in relationship to the subject of the sentence, which is Tatum. Considering Smart's and Brown's chemistry which is more or less emperical, I think it's more reasonable to assume that this was just a poorly structured sentence about how these two guys play with Tatum, opposed to "BS".

But it doesn't matter, does it. We are really just playing detective here lol. What ever happens, will happen.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[keevsnick1]

If this was the only article about it, that would be one thing. But this is just one example of many, from respected nba writers.

As far as the offensive chemistry, he definitely means between Smart and Jaylen. How true is it? No clue lol.

I distinctly remember an article from either January or February talking about how the Smart to Brown assist was in fact the most common assist pair by both totals assists and points in the entire league at the time. I mean clearly that pairing works fine offensively. Its like one of the weirder pairings you could nitpick on the team. They also work fine together, team has an overall 5.6 net rating with that two man lineup.

I don't know, I read an article that cites a bunch of examples of play-style problems taht too be honest i don't even think are actual problems and I have a hard time taking it seriously. The article is based on "team sources," and its entirely possible those "team sources" are just wrong about the actual issue.

And I am definitely not one of those "keep everyone together, the team is fine" kind of guys. I would be fine moving Smart right now, I kind of think you need a better shooter at your PG position. I think the team needs a talent infusion, a big 3+D wing, a connector PG, ect. But this article frames a lot of their issues as a leadership issue, and I just think that's kind of a lazy fall back for people who don't want to tackle the actual team building issue.

I think it's just as lazy to dismiss the psychological impact a lack of leadership, as well as a lack of chemistry can have on a team/any groups ability to maximize their job as a unit.

The article speaks to the lack of offensive chemistry between Tatum and Brown, and Tatum and Smart. Not Brown and Smart. The particular paragraph was talking about Tatum's leadership, so I thought that read pretty clearly.

I know it's easy to dismiss leadership and chemistry issues. But here's the deal.


They keep popping up. There's an obvious lack of consistency, effort, and discipline on this team. Smart has been explosive, has shown historically to be a poorly disciplined player. Brown does get tunnel vision (though any chemistry issues there would be due to immature players not recognizing that this is a weakness of Jaylen's game, not selfishness)

I think to deny ANY leadership/chemistry issues the core 3 creates on this team is ignorant.

A change needs to happen. Not just for talent and roster, but for culture and life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

You may be right about the Tatum/Brown/Smart offensive stuff. That was actually how I read it at first read, but then I've seen others like Comedian who seem sure its a Smart/Brown thing and now I'm not sure. I think it would be weird to write a paragraph about offensive staleness and mention Brown/Smart but not Brown/Tatum, which is the far more important duo to consider and honestly has worse chemistry than Smart/Brown.

As for the rest of the stuff I don't really deny that there may be chemistry or leadership issues. I question the cause and effect. Does the leadership stuff mean they are losing more, or is losing more than they'd like making it hard to get along? I kind of think the issue is lack of talent (passing, shooting)--->losing--->bad vibes, not the other way around.

But I've been wrong before. I suspect we will eventually find out, because the c's will eventually make a move to put more talent on the team (if may take our entire draft future ala Jrue Holiday, but they will try). We'll see if that fixes things, or not. I hope they do.

[GoGreen]

Why? Fox is a point guard, who has shown flashes of brilliance and is the victim of a crap situation in Sacramento. Marcus is in an ideal situation and is under performing and has maxed out his potential. You can not like the player but the fit is there and he probably would have a career year playing with 2 all stars.

This team needs a better 3rd star than Marcus if they want to compete.

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

So we keep Smart? Who also can't shoot?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Bruh i am not much of a Marcus fan, believe me lol. I just an not that high on Fox, either. Feel we can do better. Maybe not get a better player, per se, but a shooter, for example, which we really need. Fox isn't really a facilitator or floor general either, so him being a PG i think is more title than reality.

[Jaqua92]

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

So we keep Smart? Who also can't shoot?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Smart can shoot. Just ask Ime Brad and Marcus

Ask Marcus that as well. I feel as though he just doesn't work. Smart is best in an exclusive role. It's not his fault that this team lacks talent around him, and a coaching staff that holds him more accountable. But having a roster like this just enables Smart's bad habbits and decision making on offense.

There's no reeling that in because there's no one else talented enough. Unfortunately, you can't build a talented team here with Smart still present on the roster. And I can't see a scenario where all the factors - finances, coaching, and roster - that would contribute to a more disciplined role-playing Smart can occur here. So he has to be traded.

And maybe he'd end up as a role player on a contender, and he'd look great. And people would be upset about letting a championship player go. But the reality is that he just can't work here. His leash has been too long for too long, he's too comfortable, and we can't build that team while retaining a valuable roster.


I'm so hard on the guy. I think he can be an elite championship role player. But he can't be that here.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Feed Your Head]

I think it's just as lazy to dismiss the psychological impact a lack of leadership, as well as a lack of chemistry can have on a team/any groups ability to maximize their job as a unit.

The article speaks to the lack of offensive chemistry between Tatum and Brown, and Tatum and Smart. Not Brown and Smart. The particular paragraph was talking about Tatum's leadership, so I thought that read pretty clearly.

I know it's easy to dismiss leadership and chemistry issues. But here's the deal.


They keep popping up. There's an obvious lack of consistency, effort, and discipline on this team. Smart has been explosive, has shown historically to be a poorly disciplined player. Brown does get tunnel vision (though any chemistry issues there would be due to immature players not recognizing that this is a weakness of Jaylen's game, not selfishness)

I think to deny ANY leadership/chemistry issues the core 3 creates on this team is ignorant.

A change needs to happen. Not just for talent and roster, but for culture and life.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I dunno, this reads very clearly as between Jaylen and Smart. Again, not saying if it’s the case or not, but definitely what Weiss is saying.

Tatum has cemented his reputation as a quiet, lead-by-example type, while the continued struggles for offensive chemistry between Brown and Smart has created a sense of staleness within the team. Multiple people in the locker room have brought up the lack of desperation from this team, something that often shows throughout the week as the Celtics bounce between composed and lost.

I thought so too..but Tatum is the subject of that paragraph, and that sentence. So when I read "the chemistry", I'm reading it in relationship to the subject of the sentence, which is Tatum. Considering Smart's and Brown's chemistry which is more or less emperical, I think it's more reasonable to assume that this was just a poorly structured sentence about how these two guys play with Tatum, opposed to "BS".

But it doesn't matter, does it. We are really just playing detective here lol. What ever happens, will happen.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I don’t think there’s really a subject to the paragraph, TBH lol. It’s poorly constructed, just seems like he’s throwing random thoughts together into one paragraph. Him saying between Smart and Jaylen is pretty straight forward though.

Either way, like you said, it doesn’t matter, I don’t think there’s any real bad feelings in the locker room, things just don’t work as well as the talent level indicates that it should.

[Jaqua92]

Eh, I think I've just had my share of smaller PGs that can't defend, or dribble around a lot. Plus, this one can't shoot. And his contract is monstrous.

So we keep Smart? Who also can't shoot?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Bruh i am not much of a Marcus fan, believe me lol. I just an not that high on Fox, either. Feel we can do better. Maybe not get a better player, per se, but a shooter, for example, which we really need. Fox isn't really a facilitator or floor general either, so him being a PG i think is more title than reality.

I'd love Collins. Idk if Halliburton is available from Sac.


But if we move on from Smart for a non pg, I'd be willing to let PP run the offense for the remainder of the year. He always plays well in big minutes..and he's a true PG.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics are still over the tax. So I think we will see Bol, Dozier and enough cash to cover the remainder of their salaries going to OKC for the proverbial top 55 protected second round pick.

If OKC does not take on additional cap salary, it will owe its players around $22M At the end of the season.

Bol and Dozier together count $4M against the cap. That saves the OKC owners $4M that they would otherwise have to pay out at no cost to them. Meanwhile, the Celtics get the non-taxpayer distribution courtesy of the tax paying teams.

You could also add Schroder to the deal-- he played well when he was at OKC-- in exchange for a prospect.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

The big Celtics trade is not final so I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics are talking to OKC to make it a 4 team deal

[Curmudgeon]

Karalis wins the kewpie doll.

[Stan34]

The point is that you can't lead with any credibility if you're constantly f*cking up yourself. If Brown played up to his defensive potential he might be able to pull it off. And Grant Williams? They ended practice months ago with a "shut the f*ck up Grant!" cheer.

Jaylen has the best DRTG on the team. But he is responsabile for everything going bad for the Celtics

Inviato dal mio BAH2-W19 utilizzando Tapatalk

Maybe the writer who has absolutely no dog in the fight at all is just a Jaylen “hater”

Remember 2019 when jaylen was THE PROBLEM in celtics locker room? The whole year listening the same toxic narrative... It was more complicated than that.
And I remember jaylen was a lock to be traded in OS. That kind of narrative did not age well

Inviato dal mio BAH2-W19 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Larry_Russell]

Sigh, I expect more.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Read on Twitter

The big Celtics trade is not final so I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics are talking to OKC to make it a 4 team deal

Could be it gets tied to a Schroeder trade, or San Antonio decides to bundle Juancho’s money with one of their wings or even Thad Young to add a more expensive player

[bisme37]

I'm glad you guys keep up with all the tax minutiae because my tiny peabrain has very little room for that stuff.

[Shak_Celts]

I'm glad you guys keep up with all the tax minutiae because my tiny peabrain has very little room for that stuff.

You too? When people post it, I read it and remember it for about 5 minutes after that it's like I've never seen it!