Austin Ainge: Celtics Draft was about keeping flexibility, not taking best player, so Celts could hold out for home run

[Tiny ball]

10000 disagree. Kid can play.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I just can't see a ceiling beyond Ryan Gomes, an OK bench guy who would be a nice 2nd round hit. But at 16, aim higher. We have a million 2nd round darts to throw at Yabus.

I like Brown pick a lot. But rest of draft was horrid and disgraceful. There were guys at 16 we should have taken. Ellenson would have been my pick. But apparently Stevens is incapable of developing 2 rookies at once? My goodness.

Agree. Stevens wants to win and rookies and winning don't mix.

[Tiny ball]

At #8 I might have taken Sabonis over Chriss.

It's obvious that Ainges was going for a stash strategy. I question whether Yabusele was the right guy to pick to stash. Then again Zizic was high on my list and I would not have complained about taking him at 16. So I am not all that upset that we took him at 23 instead. But might have preferred Furkan Korkmaz as the other stash. But I don't have a terrible degree of confidence in either making much of an impact.

I wanted Sabonis bad. I will take what they picked and not bitch till Sabonis is killing us and the whole league . If he gets taller I will bitch even more then:-)

[threrf23]

I think Zizic was a great pick. I also feel like we missed out on other great picks (Korkmaz, Onuaku, Zubac, Daniel Hamilton come to my mind). And my slight confusion here is that I have always been under the impression that compiling (and valuing) draft picks comes hand-in-hand with a swing for the fences strategy. Having contributors on rookie contracts makes the guys on non-rookie contracts expendable if you need to free up salary. Guys who aren't ready for prime time, but show promise, become trade assets that situationally help to make a home run happen. Also, ironically, unless Zizic/Yabu/etc agreed to be stashed before June 30th, which I don't think happened, they count towards our salary cap regardless.

Any event, the thread title here isn't really representative of the linked content.

[robbie84]

can someone explain why the draft was about keeping flexibility?

How does a top 3 pick change due to flexibility options?

[sully00]

can someone explain why the draft was about keeping flexibility?

How does a top 3 pick change due to flexibility options?

The whole point of the article seems to be that Boston's #1 need after the loss to the Hawks was perimeter shooting and they did not address this need through the draft (or Free Agency).

Jalen himself improves the team's flexibility because as a young player he is able to defend 3 maybe 4 positions and is physically ready for the NBA. From a skill set, attitude and approach he fits the mold of the type of player the C's are looking for. This is likely in comparison to Chriss and Jamal Murray who would likely be a few years away from competing on Boston's current roster.

There just wasn't a front line star available for the 3 pick and Ainge wasn't interested in Okafor or other options at the price being asked.

There was nothing in this article about Boston taking lesser players over better players. They wanted to maintain two max FA slots which I think everyone agrees was a good idea. Using the the two first rounders on draft and stash guys is the way to go. While you can quibble about who you think might be a better prospect @ 16 or 23 if you factor in that having that prospect will have to be on your roster and perhaps impact your options in FA and the trade market and you have no room for development guys who should he have taken?

There seems to be this consensus that people are pissed with Ainge for not trading for a star that wasn't available at the draft in Butler or trading up for a player he may or may not have had the assets to do and likely didn't want in Chriss.

Would I have drafted Deyonta Davis at 16 or 23 yup but the rest of the league agreed with Ainge and passed until Ainge picked him at 31 and traded him for a future first. My guess is there is a reason.

If you can get away from the emotions of the individual picks being made and what you think he should have done and what the mock drafts said and look at what he came away with I think Ainge did very well. He went in with 8 picks limited roster spots and trying to preserve max cap space and was able to get his BPA at 3, essentially extend his roster with 16 and 23, roll over 31 and 35 for a future first, and picked up to interesting players later in the 2nd round. We all hated the Terry Rozier pick at this time last year and now some think he is untradeable.

[bdub24]

I don't mind staying patient and not overpaying for a guy. Don't even mind passing on trades that make marginal improvements, but goddamn at taking lesser draft picks to preserve flexibility.

Failed strategy in the short-term, and detrimental in the long-term. You just don't leave better players on the board.

It was obvious they tanked this draft. Brown is a maybe, the others will never, ever see useful NBA minutes.

Absolutely horrific draft night performance.

[b3n]

There seems to be this consensus that people are pissed with Ainge for not trading for a star that wasn't available at the draft in Butler or trading up for a player he may or may not have had the assets to do and likely didn't want in Chriss.

Agreed. And, it seems pretty clear now that there was no point in trading for Dunn to get Butler, when signing Horford/Durant & keeping #3 was an option (even albeit a long shot one). I'm not sure why people aren't over that yet. Keeping #3 and landing just Horford, with space to go after another max FA next season is to me, a better situation than having Butler/Horford right now & no Brown (i.e., potential stud) on our roster, and no room for another max FA without a major trade.

We all hated the Terry Rozier pick at this time last year and now some think he is untradeable.

& good point. I think people with this type of draft sentiment ..

It was obvious they tanked this draft. Brown is a maybe, the others will never, ever see useful NBA minutes.Absolutely horrific draft night performance.

.. are being a little impassioned in their analysis. Zizic will absolutely see useful NBA minutes. Yabu very well could too - he's very much this year's Rozier, and like noted above, is looking like a player who will see useful NBA minutes. It's all good

[ddb]

With the Durant dream likely done (unless things implode in Golden State this year), I'm turning my attention to Anthony Davis & Gordan Hayward

Let's just say we end up with the #1 or #2 pick in the 2017 draft. And let's just say the top of the draft is really strong. Let's also say that New Orleans misses the playoffs again and Anthony Davis grows frustrated with the organization. Finally, let's assume the Celtics have a really good season with development from their young core.

These are all items that have a good chance of being true.

Draft night deal for Anthony Davis involving the #1 or #2 pick, a couple young players and a vet. Probably the 18 BK pick as well.

Jaylen Brown, #2 pick, Zeller (contract flexibility to help match dollars), BK18 as a core to the deal.

Sign Hayward as a free agent.

Thomas-Hayward-Crowder-Davis-Horford
Rozier-Bradley-Smart-Olynyk-Vet

That team can beat Cleveland if this years team can't! Man.....I just got WAY AHEAD.

[simon24]

There seems to be this consensus that people are pissed with Ainge for not trading for a star that wasn't available at the draft in Butler or trading up for a player he may or may not have had the assets to do and likely didn't want in Chriss.

Agreed. And, it seems pretty clear now that there was no point in trading for Dunn to get Butler, when signing Horford/Durant & keeping #3 was an option (even albeit a long shot one). I'm not sure why people aren't over that yet. Keeping #3 and landing just Horford, with space to go after another max FA next season is to me, a better situation than having Butler/Horford right now & no Brown (i.e., potential stud) on our roster, and no room for another max FA without a major trade.

We all hated the Terry Rozier pick at this time last year and now some think he is untradeable.

& good point. I think people with this type of draft sentiment ..

It was obvious they tanked this draft. Brown is a maybe, the others will never, ever see useful NBA minutes.Absolutely horrific draft night performance.

.. are being a little impassioned in their analysis. Zizic will absolutely see useful NBA minutes. Yabu very well could too - he's very much this year's Rozier, and like noted above, is looking like a player who will see useful NBA minutes. It's all good

Millsap 2017?

[Captain_Caveman]

I don't think Austin is as seasoned in GM-speak as his dad, and definitely gave a look behind the curtain here. Would seem obvious that they were looking for stash candidates with the Yabu and Zizic picks over taking the BPA, which is a little troubling (definitely moreso in Yabu's case). The lack of young bigs makes that a little understandable, I guess. Can't keep drafting combo guards forever.

Hard to say if the comments applied to Jaylen, but it is entirely feasible to read these comments as us taking him over Dunn based on current roster fit and availability of minutes. Which would not at all be smart, IMO. In the top 5? Always, always, always take the BPA.

In sum, personally can't shake the feeling that this rebuild took just the slightest bit of a wrong turn along the way. We are all-in on making the big move ASAP. Been that way for a couple of years now, and previous moves to facilitate that are starting to box us in a bit.

[Tiny ball]

I don't think Austin is as seasoned in GM-speak as his dad, and definitely gave a look behind the curtain here. Would seem obvious that they were looking for stash candidates with the Yabu and Zizic picks over taking the BPA, which is a little troubling (definitely moreso in Yabu's case). The lack of young bigs makes that a little understandable, I guess. Can't keep drafting combo guards forever.

Hard to say if the comments applied to Jaylen, but it is entirely feasible to read these comments as us taking him over Dunn based on current roster fit and availability of minutes. Which would not at all be smart, IMO. In the top 5? Always, always, always take the BPA.

In sum, personally can't shake the feeling that this rebuild took just the slightest bit of a wrong turn along the way. We are all-in on making the big move ASAP. Been that way for a couple of years now, and previous moves to facilitate that are starting to box us in a bit.

I like the picks. We really needed length and athletic ability.

Brad really likes the dancing bear. Plus a rebounding center. I will take it.

I wanted buddy and Sabonis .

[jbk1234]

My read of the article is that drafting Brown allows them to trade Crowder if need be.

[Gomes3PC]

My read of the article is that drafting Brown allows them to trade Crowder if need be.

Didn't read that at all. They knew Turner was gone and the C's had nobody behind Crowder in case of injury all year even with Turner. The most immediate area to get minutes & help the team was at the 3/4 combo forward spot. The way Crowder plays, he's likely to get banged up and miss 10-20 games a year or be less than 100% for long stretches, so having another versatile wing defender is very important.

Everywhere else on the roster had basically a massive glut in players. If Crowder is traded, your wing depth is Jaylen Brown and...James Young? That's not a tenable situation. Crowder is probably the hardest to replace player on the team.

[jbk1234]

My read of the article is that drafting Brown allows them to trade Crowder if need be.

Didn't read that at all. They knew Turner was gone and the C's had nobody behind Crowder in case of injury all year even with Turner. The most immediate area to get minutes & help the team was at the 3/4 combo forward spot. The way Crowder plays, he's likely to get banged up and miss 10-20 games a year or be less than 100% for long stretches, so having another versatile wing defender is very important.

Everywhere else on the roster had basically a massive glut in players. If Crowder is traded, your wing depth is Jaylen Brown and...James Young? That's not a tenable situation. Crowder is probably the hardest to replace player on the team.

That's the only way I can read it and have it make sense. Dunn had more trade value. If that was the type of "flexibility" Ainge was looking for.

[chakdaddy]

If Paul Pierce and James Posey could coexist, Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder can.

[Captain_Caveman]

My read of the article is that drafting Brown allows them to trade Crowder if need be.

Can't say for sure, but not an unreasonable thing to glean from that.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Hard to say if the comments applied to Jaylen, but it is entirely feasible to read these comments as us taking him over Dunn based on current roster fit and availability of minutes. Which would not at all be smart, IMO. In the top 5? Always, always, always take the BPA.

I have mixed emotions about this. In a way, I do agree that we should always go BPA. However, if we take Dunn, then we are exactly like Philly, but with guards. This whole board scoffs at what Sixers fans want for Noel, and all point out that they'd have to split 96 minutes amongst Noel, Okafor, Embiid, Saric, and Simmons. The Celtics would be in the same boat with Isaiah, Bradley, Smart and Dunn.

Granted, our backcourt has much better trade value than any of Philly's frontcourt. However, drafting Dunn still lowers the trade value of every single guard on the roster. We could get something good for IT or AB, but Smart's trade value would take a dive. Rozier would be worth nothing.

IMO, I think the difference in talent/impact between Dunn and Brown might be small enough to justify drafting for need instead of BPA. I could be proven terribly wrong though. Dunn looked fantastic out there, but I'm still excited about Brown.

[Leprechaun18]

They have always said it was about taking the best player available. Now they make excuses for blowing two first round picks by saying they needed to maintain cap flex. Why didnt they attempt to combine the later two first round picks with some second round picks to get a better second first round pick? Was that to much for them?

[robbie84]

can someone explain why the draft was about keeping flexibility?

How does a top 3 pick change due to flexibility options?

The whole point of the article seems to be that Boston's #1 need after the loss to the Hawks was perimeter shooting and they did not address this need through the draft (or Free Agency).

Jalen himself improves the team's flexibility because as a young player he is able to defend 3 maybe 4 positions and is physically ready for the NBA. From a skill set, attitude and approach he fits the mold of the type of player the C's are looking for. This is likely in comparison to Chriss and Jamal Murray who would likely be a few years away from competing on Boston's current roster.

There just wasn't a front line star available for the 3 pick and Ainge wasn't interested in Okafor or other options at the price being asked.

There was nothing in this article about Boston taking lesser players over better players. They wanted to maintain two max FA slots which I think everyone agrees was a good idea. Using the the two first rounders on draft and stash guys is the way to go. While you can quibble about who you think might be a better prospect @ 16 or 23 if you factor in that having that prospect will have to be on your roster and perhaps impact your options in FA and the trade market and you have no room for development guys who should he have taken?

There seems to be this consensus that people are pissed with Ainge for not trading for a star that wasn't available at the draft in Butler or trading up for a player he may or may not have had the assets to do and likely didn't want in Chriss.

Would I have drafted Deyonta Davis at 16 or 23 yup but the rest of the league agreed with Ainge and passed until Ainge picked him at 31 and traded him for a future first. My guess is there is a reason.

If you can get away from the emotions of the individual picks being made and what you think he should have done and what the mock drafts said and look at what he came away with I think Ainge did very well. He went in with 8 picks limited roster spots and trying to preserve max cap space and was able to get his BPA at 3, essentially extend his roster with 16 and 23, roll over 31 and 35 for a future first, and picked up to interesting players later in the 2nd round. We all hated the Terry Rozier pick at this time last year and now some think he is untradeable.

thankyou, I thought that was the jist of the 'versatility' talking point. I also got the impression from some replies that it was somehow about cap options too, which didn't make much sense as he could have been signed after we potentially signed Durant/Horford.

[ddb]

If Paul Pierce and James Posey could coexist, Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder can.

yup. At the end of the day Jae is going to play a lot of minutes at the 4 in smaller/quicker lineups.

IT-AB-Smart-Jae-Horford or IT-Smart-Brown-Jae-Horford

Stuff like that will be very common.